Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
At 2010-08-26 05:08, Tom Chance wrote: On 26 August 2010 13:43, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: ... The source of energy used (generator:source) Combined with 'generator:method=fission' you have to add 'uranium_235'. If change the whole system, please add 'wood', 'wood_pellet', 'diesel', 'crude_oil'. I thought about that for values like biomass and biofuel. Again, it is perhaps getting more detailed than we need in OSM. After all, wood could be broken down into any number of sources such as coppiced_FSC_wood and waste_municipal_tree_cuttings :-) The problem is that diesel and gasoline do not fit in any of the other documented categories, yet both are commonly used for backup generators. If people are to tag those (perhaps important in countries without a stable electric grid), they will vastly outnumber all the other fuel sources. Is there any objection to my adding generator:source=diesel and generator:source=gasoline to the documentation? -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
On 21 February 2011 11:08, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: At 2010-08-26 05:08, Tom Chance wrote: On 26 August 2010 13:43, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: ... The source of energy used (generator:source) Combined with 'generator:method=fission' you have to add 'uranium_235'. If change the whole system, please add 'wood', 'wood_pellet', 'diesel', 'crude_oil'. I thought about that for values like biomass and biofuel. Again, it is perhaps getting more detailed than we need in OSM. After all, wood could be broken down into any number of sources such as coppiced_FSC_wood and waste_municipal_tree_cuttings :-) The problem is that diesel and gasoline do not fit in any of the other documented categories, yet both are commonly used for backup generators. If people are to tag those (perhaps important in countries without a stable electric grid), they will vastly outnumber all the other fuel sources. Is there any objection to my adding generator:source=diesel and generator:source=gasoline to the documentation? Not at all. You might want to add explanation in brackets to make clear that oil doesn't include gasoline/diesel/etc. Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
At 2011-02-21 05:30, Tom Chance wrote: On 21 February 2011 11:08, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: At 2010-08-26 05:08, Tom Chance wrote: On 26 August 2010 13:43, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: ... The source of energy used (generator:source) Combined with 'generator:method=fission' you have to add 'uranium_235'. If change the whole system, please add 'wood', 'wood_pellet', 'diesel', 'crude_oil'. I thought about that for values like biomass and biofuel. Again, it is perhaps getting more detailed than we need in OSM. After all, wood could be broken down into any number of sources such as coppiced_FSC_wood and waste_municipal_tree_cuttings :-) The problem is that diesel and gasoline do not fit in any of the other documented categories, yet both are commonly used for backup generators. If people are to tag those (perhaps important in countries without a stable electric grid), they will vastly outnumber all the other fuel sources. Is there any objection to my adding generator:source=diesel and generator:source=gasoline to the documentation? Not at all. You might want to add explanation in brackets to make clear that oil doesn't include gasoline/diesel/etc. Doesn't seem necessary once those are shown as additional choices (any more than it's done in docs for amenity=fuel). I added gasoline and diesel to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:generator:source. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
On 28 August 2010 04:30, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.netalan_mintz%2b...@earthlink.net wrote: Is there a plan to convert the existing data? I thought about that, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Any advice is welcome! I could, of course, just download all data tagged with the old schema using XAPI and update it. More time consuming, but polite, would be to contact all the authors of that data to tell them about the new schema. Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
At 2010-08-28 01:49, Tom Chance wrote: On 28 August 2010 04:30, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: Is there a plan to convert the existing data? I thought about that, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Any advice is welcome! I could, of course, just download all data tagged with the old schema using XAPI and update it. More time consuming, but polite, would be to contact all the authors of that data to tell them about the new schema. IMO, when you're dealing with just changing a key name or value with a clear 1:1 map from old to new, it makes sense to change the data yourself - pretty straightforward using XAPI. If there is a convenient way to do it (is there?), alerting the creators/editors of those features to the tagging scheme change would be good, too, since they are likely to be taggers of those feature types in the future. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
I would not propose both generator:output=* and generator:output:*=yes. I think it should be one or the other (probably the latter until we rationally deal with, or drop, semi-colons). Is there a plan to convert the existing data? -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
2010/8/26 Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/generator_rationalisation The aim is to provide a flexible framework to encompass: This should allow us to distinguish between a solar photovoltaic panel producing electricity and a solar thermal panel producing hot water; between a gas-fired combined-heat-and-power (CHP) station and a simple gas boiler. The word 'generator:' is better than 'power:', but it is still not easy for me to tag a heating (only) station with power=generator. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power=generator A place where electrical power is generated. A power station, turbine or other form of electrical generator. The output rating (generator:rating) Which rating should be tagged if it is a cogenerating plant? Electricity only? Heat and Electricity? The source of energy used (generator:source) Combined with 'generator:method=fission' you have to add 'uranium_235'. If change the whole system, please add 'wood', 'wood_pellet', 'diesel', 'crude_oil'. The type of energy generated (generator:output) Whats about 'vacuum' and 'compressed_air'? The method of generation (generator:method) Looks good, but which method to choose for an hydro, tidal, wave or an osmotic power plant? What should I use for 'generator:source'? Gravitation, Moon, Weather, Water, Salt? Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
Thank you for these comments, André, I have updated the wiki page with some amendments: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/generator_rationalisation On 26 August 2010 13:43, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: The word 'generator:' is better than 'power:', but it is still not easy for me to tag a heating (only) station with power=generator. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power=generator A place where electrical power is generated. A power station, turbine or other form of electrical generator. I think I might just change that description to avoid confusion. As previously discussed, it would get very complicated if we tried to keep electrical generators separate from other kinds of energy generators, and changing the tag to energy=generator would put it out of sync with the other power tags. The output rating (generator:rating) Which rating should be tagged if it is a cogenerating plant? Electricity only? Heat and Electricity? That's a good point. It keeps getting more complicated! Perhaps we should say that it should be the combined rating for now. Providing the means to tag the separate outputs for a trigeneration plant could get very messy! The source of energy used (generator:source) Combined with 'generator:method=fission' you have to add 'uranium_235'. If change the whole system, please add 'wood', 'wood_pellet', 'diesel', 'crude_oil'. I thought about that for values like biomass and biofuel. Again, it is perhaps getting more detailed than we need in OSM. After all, wood could be broken down into any number of sources such as coppiced_FSC_wood and waste_municipal_tree_cuttings :-) The type of energy generated (generator:output) Whats about 'vacuum' and 'compressed_air'? Yes, I will add them. The method of generation (generator:method) Looks good, but which method to choose for an hydro, tidal, wave or an osmotic power plant? What should I use for 'generator:source'? Gravitation, Moon, Weather, Water, Salt? Quite often the generator:method will be implied by the generator:source and sometimes also the generator:output. For instance, tag a power=generator with generator:source=nuclear and we can reasonably infer that the method is fission and the output electricity. So for tidal, hydro, wave etc. I would say it is safely inferred. If anyone is knowledgeable about the different methods by which tidal, wave and hydro power technologies convert to electricity then by all means add them to the method table. I confess I know very little about that! As for your proposed sources, you've gone back one step too far! The table shows values for hydro, tidal and wave. Regards, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC: generator:* (for power=generator features)
2010/8/26 Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net: The word 'generator:' is better than 'power:', but it is still not easy for me to tag a heating (only) station with power=generator. Which rating should be tagged if it is a cogenerating plant? Electricity only? Heat and Electricity? That's a good point. It keeps getting more complicated! Perhaps we should say that it should be the combined rating for now. Providing the means to tag the separate outputs for a trigeneration plant could get very messy! Maybe this can be a reason to separate electrical power and heat? I think that putting all kind of power generators together looks appealing at first sight, but there might be arguments not to do so as well. If you separated different outputs with the main tag, all subtags might be used several times for output ratings and so on. i.e. power:output:electricity=yes power:output:heat=yes and power:rating:electricity=10MW power:rating:heat=10MW the suggested semicolon for combinations is never evaluated by any application (AFAIK). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
