[tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Anders Genell]

Hi list!

I'm new here so please excuse my breaking of any code of conduct. 

We are some friends setting up a small Tahoe grid to use as cloud based backup 
solution. A friend runs the introducer and I run a storage node connected to 
it. More nodes to come as more friends join in. When testing things I created a 
node on one machine but then decided to run my node on a raspberry pi as a low 
power server. I didn't manage to move the previous node to the pi so I created 
a new. I now would like to remove my old node from the grid but cannot find any 
instructions about how to accomplish that. 
I'm sure I've overlooked something obvious so I humbly ask for someone to point 
me in the right direction. 

Best regards,
Anders


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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Ed Kapitein]

On Thu, 2013-06-06 at 09:43 +0200, Anders Genell wrote:
> Hi list!
> 
> I'm new here so please excuse my breaking of any code of conduct. 
> 
> We are some friends setting up a small Tahoe grid to use as cloud based 
> backup solution. A friend runs the introducer and I run a storage node 
> connected to it. More nodes to come as more friends join in. When testing 
> things I created a node on one machine but then decided to run my node on a 
> raspberry pi as a low power server. I didn't manage to move the previous node 
> to the pi so I created a new. I now would like to remove my old node from the 
> grid but cannot find any instructions about how to accomplish that. 
> I'm sure I've overlooked something obvious so I humbly ask for someone to 
> point me in the right direction. 
> 
> Best regards,
> Anders

Hi Anders,

I am not an expert, but i think restarting the introducer would do the
trick.

Kind regards,
Ed


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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Oleksandr Drach]

Hi guys!

Ed, you are absolutely right with your reply :)
BTW I have added the question to Tahoe-LAFS
FAQ
.

Thanks!

*Sincerely,
Oleksandr Drach.*


2013/6/6 Ed Kapitein 

>
> On Thu, 2013-06-06 at 09:43 +0200, Anders Genell wrote:
> > Hi list!
> >
> > I'm new here so please excuse my breaking of any code of conduct.
> >
> > We are some friends setting up a small Tahoe grid to use as cloud based
> backup solution. A friend runs the introducer and I run a storage node
> connected to it. More nodes to come as more friends join in. When testing
> things I created a node on one machine but then decided to run my node on a
> raspberry pi as a low power server. I didn't manage to move the previous
> node to the pi so I created a new. I now would like to remove my old node
> from the grid but cannot find any instructions about how to accomplish that.
> > I'm sure I've overlooked something obvious so I humbly ask for someone
> to point me in the right direction.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Anders
>
> Hi Anders,
>
> I am not an expert, but i think restarting the introducer would do the
> trick.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed
>
>
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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Anders Genell]

Thank you kindly, Gentlemen!
I will ask my friend with the introducer to do so. 

This makes me wonder how it all would work when/if multiple introducers are 
possible in a grid...

Oh we'll, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it (or as a directly 
translated Swedish proverb goes "That day, that sorrow"). 

Best regards,
Anders

6 jun 2013 kl. 11:26 skrev Oleksandr Drach :

> Hi guys!
> 
> Ed, you are absolutely right with your reply :)
> BTW I have added the question to Tahoe-LAFS FAQ.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sincerely,
> Oleksandr Drach.
> 
> 
> 2013/6/6 Ed Kapitein 
>> 
>> On Thu, 2013-06-06 at 09:43 +0200, Anders Genell wrote:
>> > Hi list!
>> >
>> > I'm new here so please excuse my breaking of any code of conduct.
>> >
>> > We are some friends setting up a small Tahoe grid to use as cloud based 
>> > backup solution. A friend runs the introducer and I run a storage node 
>> > connected to it. More nodes to come as more friends join in. When testing 
>> > things I created a node on one machine but then decided to run my node on 
>> > a raspberry pi as a low power server. I didn't manage to move the previous 
>> > node to the pi so I created a new. I now would like to remove my old node 
>> > from the grid but cannot find any instructions about how to accomplish 
>> > that.
>> > I'm sure I've overlooked something obvious so I humbly ask for someone to 
>> > point me in the right direction.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Anders
>> 
>> Hi Anders,
>> 
>> I am not an expert, but i think restarting the introducer would do the
>> trick.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Ed
>> 
>> 
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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Oleksandr Drach]

Hello Anders,

As you've said there can be only one introducer at the moment (see FAQ
Q17),
that's true so far.
BTW the bridge is not far away so we have started our
preparations
 :-)

Have a nice day!

*Sincerely,
Oleksandr Drach.*


2013/6/6 Anders Genell 

> Thank you kindly, Gentlemen!
> I will ask my friend with the introducer to do so.
>
> This makes me wonder how it all would work when/if multiple introducers
> are possible in a grid...
>
> Oh we'll, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it (or as a directly
> translated Swedish proverb goes "That day, that sorrow").
>
> Best regards,
> Anders
>
> 6 jun 2013 kl. 11:26 skrev Oleksandr Drach :
>
> Hi guys!
>
> Ed, you are absolutely right with your reply :)
> BTW I have added the question to Tahoe-LAFS 
> FAQ
> .
>
> Thanks!
>
> *Sincerely,
> Oleksandr Drach.*
>
>
> 2013/6/6 Ed Kapitein 
>
>>
>> On Thu, 2013-06-06 at 09:43 +0200, Anders Genell wrote:
>> > Hi list!
>> >
>> > I'm new here so please excuse my breaking of any code of conduct.
>> >
>> > We are some friends setting up a small Tahoe grid to use as cloud based
>> backup solution. A friend runs the introducer and I run a storage node
>> connected to it. More nodes to come as more friends join in. When testing
>> things I created a node on one machine but then decided to run my node on a
>> raspberry pi as a low power server. I didn't manage to move the previous
>> node to the pi so I created a new. I now would like to remove my old node
>> from the grid but cannot find any instructions about how to accomplish that.
>> > I'm sure I've overlooked something obvious so I humbly ask for someone
>> to point me in the right direction.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Anders
>>
>> Hi Anders,
>>
>> I am not an expert, but i think restarting the introducer would do the
>> trick.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> ___
>> tahoe-dev mailing list
>> tahoe-dev@tahoe-lafs.org
>> https://tahoe-lafs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tahoe-dev
>>
>
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>
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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Greg Troxel]

Anders Genell  writes:

> I'm new here so please excuse my breaking of any code of conduct. 

no worries - your question is entirely on topic.

> We are some friends setting up a small Tahoe grid to use as cloud
> based backup solution. A friend runs the introducer and I run a
> storage node connected to it. More nodes to come as more friends join
> in. When testing things I created a node on one machine but then
> decided to run my node on a raspberry pi as a low power server. I
> didn't manage to move the previous node to the pi so I created a
> new. I now would like to remove my old node from the grid but cannot
> find any instructions about how to accomplish that.
> I'm sure I've overlooked something obvious so I humbly ask for someone
> to point me in the right direction.

There are two answers:

  Just turn it off (the tahoe process).  And then restart introducer and
  then clients, if you don't want them to keep trying. Or just don't
  worry about it, and it will show in the table but not actually be
  there. This is the easy answer, but it means the shares stored on the
  node are lost.

  As above, but also move the shares to the new server.  I do not know
  if there are any official share export mechanisms, but if you just
  rsync over the files under storage and the restart the storage node, I
  think you'll have migrated shares.  There could be more to this, such
  as shares that are on both getting overwritten, and metadata.


Whether you should bother with share migration is complicated.  If
everyone is running deep-check --repair --add-lease often, you probably
don't need to, because new shares will be placed.  And people should
doing that anyway.  So my advice is to send a note to the grid
mailinglist and ask everyone to do a repair run.   WHen you're sure all
is ok, you can just rm the old node.

  


pgpYS0x8mwZk2.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Anders Genell]

Yay! I feel proud like a school kid getting his first A :-)

While I'm at it, I suggest to use garbage collection among nodes as well. If a 
node as been inactive longer than XX hours/days/weeks it could be automatically 
removed from all lists. I'm sure there are a lot of things to consider but it 
seems to work well for files. 

Thank you for you help Oleksandr!

Best regards,
Anders



6 jun 2013 kl. 13:33 skrev Oleksandr Drach :

> Hello Anders,
> 
> As you've said there can be only one introducer at the moment (see FAQ Q17), 
> that's true so far.
> BTW the bridge is not far away so we have started our preparations :-)
> 
> Have a nice day!
> 
> Sincerely,
> Oleksandr Drach.
> 
> 
> 2013/6/6 Anders Genell 
>> Thank you kindly, Gentlemen!
>> I will ask my friend with the introducer to do so. 
>> 
>> This makes me wonder how it all would work when/if multiple introducers are 
>> possible in a grid...
>> 
>> Oh we'll, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it (or as a directly 
>> translated Swedish proverb goes "That day, that sorrow"). 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Anders
>> 
>> 6 jun 2013 kl. 11:26 skrev Oleksandr Drach :
>> 
>>> Hi guys!
>>> 
>>> Ed, you are absolutely right with your reply :)
>>> BTW I have added the question to Tahoe-LAFS FAQ.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Oleksandr Drach.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2013/6/6 Ed Kapitein 
 
 On Thu, 2013-06-06 at 09:43 +0200, Anders Genell wrote:
 > Hi list!
 >
 > I'm new here so please excuse my breaking of any code of conduct.
 >
 > We are some friends setting up a small Tahoe grid to use as cloud based 
 > backup solution. A friend runs the introducer and I run a storage node 
 > connected to it. More nodes to come as more friends join in. When 
 > testing things I created a node on one machine but then decided to run 
 > my node on a raspberry pi as a low power server. I didn't manage to move 
 > the previous node to the pi so I created a new. I now would like to 
 > remove my old node from the grid but cannot find any instructions about 
 > how to accomplish that.
 > I'm sure I've overlooked something obvious so I humbly ask for someone 
 > to point me in the right direction.
 >
 > Best regards,
 > Anders
 
 Hi Anders,
 
 I am not an expert, but i think restarting the introducer would do the
 trick.
 
 Kind regards,
 Ed
 
 
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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Zooko O'Whielacronx]

It doesn't bother the Tahoe-LAFS clients to know about old servers
that are no longer connected. The main harm from it is it enlarges the
list of known servers and makes humans worry about whether the old
long-gone ones are causing some kind of trouble by still being in that
list.

Regards,

Zooko
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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Anders Genell]

Hehe, yes, worry is a very human trait :-)

But I can also imagine some slight practical use in having an up to date list. 
We plan to invite friends who are not so very computer savvy, and it would be 
good to see if their nodes are suddenly disconnected for some reason. If the 
list starts getting cluttered by legacy nodes I imagine it could be slightly 
less obvious which ones are a real problem. 

But if there is no real reason for doing anything about it then I'll survive 
without a nifty mind soothing clean-up. 

Best regards,
Anders



7 jun 2013 kl. 02:00 skrev "Zooko O'Whielacronx" :

> It doesn't bother the Tahoe-LAFS clients to know about old servers
> that are no longer connected. The main harm from it is it enlarges the
> list of known servers and makes humans worry about whether the old
> long-gone ones are causing some kind of trouble by still being in that
> list.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Zooko
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Re: [tahoe-dev] Remove node?

[Zooko O'Whielacronx]

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Anders Genell  wrote:
> Hehe, yes, worry is a very human trait :-)
>
> But I can also imagine some slight practical use in having an up to date 
> list. We plan to invite friends who are not so very computer savvy, and it 
> would be good to see if their nodes are suddenly disconnected for some 
> reason. If the list starts getting cluttered by legacy nodes I imagine it 
> could be slightly less obvious which ones are a real problem.

Good point.

> But if there is no real reason for doing anything about it then I'll survive 
> without a nifty mind soothing clean-up.

Well, what you wrote above is a real reason. However, I don't know
when I, for one, would get around to working on this instead of
working on other Tahoe-LAFS improvements. If someone else does the
work, I would approve of committing the fix to Tahoe-LAFS trunk, in
principle, although I'm not sure precisely what solution I would want
to see. Oh, in fact now that I think about it, if the problem is the
human interface element, described above, then the solution should
probably be to hide long-disconnected servers from the *display*
instead of to delete information about them entirely from the client!
Maybe the UI should have a folded-away list of servers that have not
been seen in more than 7 days, or something like that.

Here's a ticket (thanks, PRabahy!): #1997.

Regards,

Zooko

https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1997# Remove node feature
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[tahoe-dev] remove node comments

[Greg Troxel]

I suspect there are quite a few people on this list and not the trac
stream.   I put my comments in trac to have their organized for later,
but they sort of belong here too.

I particular, when I say the introducer should be persistent or remove
nodes on disconnect, I mean that there should be an invariant about the
current state that is preserved across restarts, more or less, so that
the system has predictable and consistent behavior whether or not nodes
have rebooted.

--- Begin Message ---
#1997: Remove node feature
-+--
 Reporter:  luckyredhot  |  Owner:  daira
 Type:  enhancement  | Status:  new
 Priority:  normal   |  Milestone:  undecided
Component:  unknown  |Version:  1.10.0
   Resolution:   |   Keywords:  node, introducer
Launchpad Bug:   |
-+--

Comment (by gdt):

 Several thoughts (for an ideal world)

   * There should be a command to run on a node to unregister it from the
 introducer.  People can run this when decommissioning a node.

   * The fact that restarting the introducer cleans the nodes list is a
 bug.   This should be persistent.   If it isn't persistent, nodes should
 go away immediately on disconnect.

   * It makes sense to have nodes shown as OK/green, DOWN/red (for nodes
 that have been up in the last 7 days) and STALE/yellow (for nodes that
 have not been heard from in 7 days).  I agree that hiding stale nodes, or
 putting them in a different section makes sense.  DOWN nodes however
 should stay in order and be loudly pointed out.

   * There should be a command on the introducer to remove a node from the
 list (assuming it is not connected).  In a multi-introducer world, this
 should propagate.

   * When a node is removed from the introducer, it should be automatically
 removed from client nodes.  Just fixing this would help a lot.

   * Whatever we do, it should not depend on color displays or color
 vision, or vision at all, but be manifest in the text.  (I have nodes with
 the missing css, and it's really hard to tell what's going on, which is
 probably a separate issue, and I know the css install is fixed.)

-- 
Ticket URL: 
tahoe-lafs 
secure decentralized storage
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