Re: [GTALUG] Google wins over Oracle in Java API copyright suit

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

On 2021-04-07 11:21 a.m., D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> 
> When I was an undergrad at University of Waterloo, we were required to
> use FORTRAN (WatFiv).  I hated it.  I liked the notation of Algol
> better and Algol-W (W for Wirth) was a good implementation for student
> uses.  I even created a bit of a rebellion, but it was put down.

That would have been a hard sell, considering that WatFiv was a
locally-developed project designed specifically for university use. It
produced good-enough code but very quickly, while IBM's compiler would
produce great code but bog down the machine because it was quite slow.

Algol-W seems like it was pretty fast too. I was surprised to find that
there's a (somewhat) maintained Algol-W compiler for Linux:

https://tiddly-pom.com/~glyn/

It's partly written in ocaml, and is really an Algol-W to C filter. It
seems to have some minor issues building with ocaml > 4.05, but you can
force it to work with

OCAMLPARAM="safe-string=0,_" make

The few times I need the speed of a compiled language, I'll still reach
for Fortran. C just wants to crash when I'm near it, and having to
remember to start arrays at zero just doesn't work for me.

The only functional languages I've ever used (if openscad doesn't count)
were DSSSL (Scheme with an embedded CSS engine for document processing
in SGML) and XSLT (Scheme [except it's in XML syntax] with an embedded
CSS engine for document processing in XML). Both were utterly dismal and
I only used 'em because I was paid to. Not being able to use loops but
having to write functions that called themselves recursively seemed a
huge amount of faffing about and possibly constituted cruelty to
programmers.

cheers,
 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Google wins over Oracle in Java API copyright suit

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 12:29:18PM -0400, William Park via talk wrote:
> Can you throw few names of "functional languages" at us non-compsci folks?

ML (and hence CAML and OCAML), F#, LISP (and hence Scheme and such),
SML, Haskell, Scala, Clojure, Erlang and many more.

Main idea (to me at least) is that you have data, and then you say
what to do with the data (but not how) and you get back data that has
been worked on.  Everything is pass by value (although the code is allowed
to reuse the storage if it wants of course as long as the result is what
you asked for), and you don't care what order the work gets done, just
that it does the work you requested and return the result.  It lends
itself well to code that is automatically paralleized by the language
as well as automatically handling memory in a way that doesn't need to
use garbage collection.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Google wins over Oracle in Java API copyright suit

[David Mason via talk]

Haskell, Scheme, Lisp, Elixir (mostly), Elm, Clojure

Static OO is kinda an oxymoron. Smalltalk, Ruby, Python are good OO (in my 
highly opinionated opinion).

../Dave
On Apr 8, 2021, 12:29 PM -0400, William Park via talk , wrote:
> On 4/8/21 11:37 AM, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
> > If I had my way, functional languages would be what is used, and
> > definitely not any that were object oriented, at least not in the way C++
> > and Java are. Multiple inheritance should not exist.
> Can you throw few names of "functional languages" at us non-compsci folks?
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Re: [GTALUG] Google wins over Oracle in Java API copyright suit

[William Park via talk]

On 4/8/21 11:37 AM, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:

If I had my way, functional languages would be what is used, and
definitely not any that were object oriented, at least not in the way C++
and Java are.  Multiple inheritance should not exist.

Can you throw few names of "functional languages" at us non-compsci folks?
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[GTALUG] Wayland [was] Re: Surveillance Capitalism [was another thread]

[Russell Reiter via talk]

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 1:19 AM Evan Leibovitch  wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 at 22:45, Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
>
> [much snipped]
> 
> , what reason does anyone have that suggests a breakthrough in the future?
> Weyland?
>
> - Evan
>
> I'd seriously consider Wayland. I'm assuming you don't mean any of these
Weyland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weyland

Also I'm going to try for a 2 4 1 here and start by saying thanks for the
tip on GraphineOS.

I shook the short change out of the old fruit jar which I keep at the
bottom of the tickle [tk] trunk, and purchased a Pixel 4 and installed
GraphineOS. The sandboxing of RF aligned with my own ideology. Without a
doubt this is the best sim voice connectivity I have ever had. Clear as a
bell conversations on cellular. This is now my emergency cell device and
not my daily driver. I use VOIP for that.

To do this, I had to revert to stock on Fedora on Wayland.  I tried
following all the helpful information. ie. what library setup to use on
linux etc. No joy, My personal frankensteined box wasn't up to the task. In
my last effort to install, I even tried the over the web flash. It was the
"error connecting to radio" message that saved the day for me.

I installed stock F33 from scratch and did the OTA flash. It just worked.
Actually in the docs Fedora was not recommended, ARCH being the preferred
dev platform.

I was mindful of the hypervisor issues of mapping usb through the virtual
machine. However, I will probably try that at the EOL of this device,
assuming that is still an option.

I did lose the KDE functionality of Kaffeine in the process, so I don't
have such a slick combo/video interface anymore but VLC, awkward as it is
as a point and click tv tuner, has matured substantially. Conversely, as
Cgroup V2 moves us deeper into the dynamic ILP fold, I imagine that this
KDE support will return with many improvements. This assumes of course,
that there is impetus to make those improvements.

I do use VLC for most video transcoding now so I always install it. It is
handy to just drag and drop the channel list or a web url into the
interface and have it just work.

F34 beta has Gnome 4. Gnome is the interface I most prefer on Fedora so I'm
going to take a look, after I install from scratch media. Udevadm settle
hangs around after a live media install and since this is deprecated now,
this presents a different set of issues for us linux users.

-- 
Russell
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 02:04:29AM -0400, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
>I bought an LG refrigerator when I bought my house in 2005.  It is working 
> fine.  Maybe I got lucky.  

I have LG fridge, dishwasher, washer and dryer, and they made the OLED
panel in my TV (but not the TV itself).  No problem with any of those.

Never had any of their phones.  I think I have mainly had Nokia, Samsung
and Blackberry cell phones.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Google wins over Oracle in Java API copyright suit

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 12:46:49AM -0400, Nicholas Krause via talk wrote:
> While I would agree with your other points. The problem is you have two
> choices either a) people have to learn a newer way of doing OO or b)
> keep doing the same thing for the most part. Unfortunately, when designing
> a new language you kinda have the advantage of being more popular if you
> do a). Granted one thing that is much better about C++ is templates and now
> concepts are expanded at compile time in Java it seems that generics aren't.
> This can run into a runtime penalty, through C++ has the issue with try and
> catch which is a problem in the embedded or real time world. I would through
> not that I like C++'s OO if you've used C++20 considering some of it's
> changes like concepts.

The state of C++ today is not what it was when Java arrived.  There were
no templates, namespaces or STL.  Just a language somewhat based on C
with a bad class inheritance design.  C++ has improved quite a lot,
especially in the last decade.

If I had my way, functional languages would be what is used, and
definitely not any that were object oriented, at least not in the way C++
and Java are.  Multiple inheritance should not exist.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Cert Advisory FortiOS APT

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Russell Reiter via talk 
| 
| The advisory says even if your org doesn't use the os you should apply
| mitigations.
| 
| 
https://siliconangle.com/2021/04/04/hackers-actively-targeting-fortios-vulnerabilities-warn-fbi-cisa/

From there, I got to 


Long, but easy to digest.  Scary.

It's "let's attack SSL-based VPNs".  Several vendors.  But not OpenVPN for 
some reason.  Perhaps because it isn't used as a corporate VPN.

Hosts are definitely Linux.
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

Sometimes it's a crapshoot, even different models from the same company
will have different levels of reliability and cost-cutting tradeoffs. One
can get lucky in either direction.

I have a Viking freezer in my basement that hasn't missed a beat from the
day we unpacked it.

Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
@evanleibovitch / @el56


On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 at 02:05, Howard Gibson via talk  wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 01:57:39 -0400
> Evan Leibovitch via talk  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 16:25, James Knott via talk 
> wrote:
> >
> > Life may be good, but LG products aren't.  I've had a monitor and cell
> > > phone made by them.  I wasn't happy with either.
>
> Evan,
>
>I bought an LG refrigerator when I bought my house in 2005.  It is
> working fine.  Maybe I got lucky.
>
> --
> Howard Gibson
> hgib...@eol.ca
> jhowardgib...@gmail.com
> http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[Howard Gibson via talk]

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 01:57:39 -0400
Evan Leibovitch via talk  wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 16:25, James Knott via talk  wrote:
> 
> Life may be good, but LG products aren't.  I've had a monitor and cell
> > phone made by them.  I wasn't happy with either.

Evan,

   I bought an LG refrigerator when I bought my house in 2005.  It is working 
fine.  Maybe I got lucky.  

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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