Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Stewart Russell via talk]

On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 12:05, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
wrote:

>
> There was a limited time where you could update pre Win 10 systems to Win
> 10 without buying a new license.  If you did that, Microsoft recorded this
> fact in their central system.
>
> That period is over.
>
>
No, it's not. Windows will no longer deliver the upgrade tool via automatic
update, but you can download it here —
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10ISO — via
the *Create
Windows 10 Media Installation* tool. It will definitely upgrade Windows 8
(as that's what would install on my laptop) and may do Windows 7 too.

This means I bought an unnecessary (by anyone's definition) Windows 10 Pro
licence. It wasn't as cheap as Evan's copy (it's from a more-legit source),
but it was still about $60. Quite a lot for one line of text ...

 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 04:45:47PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson via talk wrote:
> My current maching, a Dell laptop, does not have that file.
> 
> It had Windows on it when I bought it (though not running; I booted
> with an install CD in the store before buying it and never ran
> Windows).

Well I know my Dell desktop at work runing linux has that file.  My home
built desktop with an asus board in it, does not (no surprise there).
I haven't checked my laptops but I suspect they all have it.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Stewart Russell via talk 

[I started this message days ago.  I delayed, hoping to do some more 
research.  I'm just too busy so I'm sending it without completing it]

| If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to root),
| there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings

I knew it was in there somewhere, but I didn't know where.

Over the years, Microsoft has changed how they distributed OEM keys.

For a long time, it was on a fancy sticker on the computer itself 
(holograms etc.).  There were separate stickers for other bundled MS 
products like MS Works and MS Office.

(I had a system where the sticker was in a little pull-out tray.)

Eventually, they put the Windows product key in the "BIOS" (firmware).  
For a while, I think that they still put the sticker on the box.

Datapoints:

- my 2013 desktop came with Windows (8.0?) has the embedded key

- my 2020 Precision 3440 SFF came with Ubuntu (no Windows license) and
  does not have that file

- my Dell Inspiron 530 (BIOS date 2009; Core 2 Duo E6550) came bundled
  with Windows and doesn't have that file, at least under CentOS 6.

- Chris Johnson's Dell laptop came bundled with Windows but does not
  have the embedded key.  I assume that the file is missing.
  Unknown: the vintage of the laptop

Unknown:

There was a limited time where you could update pre Win 10 systems to Win 
10 without buying a new license.  If you did that, Microsoft recorded this 
fact in their central system.

That period is over.  What happens now if you take a pre Win 10 system, 
with a firmware OS key, and install Win 10?  Does it work?  My 
superstitious belief is that it does, even though it isn't MS's stated 
policy.
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Chris F.A. Johnson via talk]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021, Giles Orr via talk wrote:


On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 19:48, Znoteer via talk  wrote:



...

# cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM
MSDMU:_ASUS_Notebook ASUS-K--K-K#

(License string obfuscated.)  'strings' not required.


My current maching, a Dell laptop, does not have that file.

It had Windows on it when I bought it (though not running; I booted
with an install CD in the store before buying it and never ran
Windows).

--
   Chris F.A. Johnson 
   === Author: ===
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux shell (2009, Apress)
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: mwilson--- via talk 

| Sorry for the misinformation: the non-free firmware was needed to get Wifi
| to work.  (It was a Debian netinstall, so I guess my mind conflated that
| with booting.)

There is firmware for UEFI and ACPI and SMM and all those things.  This is 
almost always in "ROM".  (It isn't strictly ROM since it can by updated by 
flashing new firmware.)  (I suspect it is in a serial-access eePROM (SPI) 
and gets loaded into RAM as part of power-on reset.)

Firmware blobs for device drivers are typically loaded by the OS from disk 
files.

Those two kinds of firmware a logistically quite different.

Essentially no firmware for booting comes from a disk.  UEFI booting can 
run UEFI binaries (.efi) from /boot.  That may include diagnostic programs 
or a UEFI shell.

| > Znoteer wrote:
| >> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 07:42:47PM -0400, Stewart Russell via talk
| >> wrote:
| >>> If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to
| >>> root),
| >>> there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings
| >>>
| >>
| >> I don't seem to have that file, and I'm not surprised.  Under what
| >> circumstances might one have that file on a linux system?

Here's my current understanding:

If you bought hardware with bundled Windows, from a major manufacturer, in 
the last few years, it should be there.

If you bought a system, with OEM Windows, assembled from bits by a smaller 
vendor, the a Windows product key should not be there.  You should have 
been given a product key on a "certificate" printed on cardstock.

If you bought a system (or motherboard) with no bundled Windows, I would 
expect the product key would be missing.

| > Is it perhaps a license for installed firmware?  I have that file on an
| > HP/Compaq laptop, in a fresh Debian install to a brand-new SSD.  We had to
| > install some non-free firmware to get the laptop to boot.  It was all done
| > in a spirit of hasty improvisation, so I don't remember which firmware it
| > was.
| > Way back when, the laptop was delivered with Windows 10, which I blew away
| > on the original HD.  The license number for that is on a sticker on the
| > bottom, and it's a different license number from the one in the MSDM file.

How "wayback"?  My HP desktop from 2013 has the "file".  
/sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM is in the /sys filesystem which has all 
sorts of things made to act like files, but they are not on a disk.

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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[mwilson--- via talk]

Sorry for the misinformation: the non-free firmware was needed to get Wifi
to work.  (It was a Debian netinstall, so I guess my mind conflated that
with booting.)

> Znoteer wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 07:42:47PM -0400, Stewart Russell via talk
>> wrote:
>>> If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to
>>> root),
>>> there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings
>>>
>>
>> I don't seem to have that file, and I'm not surprised.  Under what
>> circumstances might one have that file on a linux system?
>
> Is it perhaps a license for installed firmware?  I have that file on an
> HP/Compaq laptop, in a fresh Debian install to a brand-new SSD.  We had to
> install some non-free firmware to get the laptop to boot.  It was all done
> in a spirit of hasty improvisation, so I don't remember which firmware it
> was.
> Way back when, the laptop was delivered with Windows 10, which I blew away
> on the original HD.  The license number for that is on a sticker on the
> bottom, and it's a different license number from the one in the MSDM file.
>
>>
>> --
>> Znoteer
>> znot...@mailbox.org
>> ---
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>>
>
>
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[mwilson--- via talk]

Znoteer wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 07:42:47PM -0400, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
>> If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to
>> root),
>> there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings
>>
>
> I don't seem to have that file, and I'm not surprised.  Under what
> circumstances might one have that file on a linux system?

Is it perhaps a license for installed firmware?  I have that file on an
HP/Compaq laptop, in a fresh Debian install to a brand-new SSD.  We had to
install some non-free firmware to get the laptop to boot.  It was all done
in a spirit of hasty improvisation, so I don't remember which firmware it
was.
Way back when, the laptop was delivered with Windows 10, which I blew away
on the original HD.  The license number for that is on a sticker on the
bottom, and it's a different license number from the one in the MSDM file.

>
> --
> Znoteer
> znot...@mailbox.org
> ---
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[James Knott via talk]

On 2021-04-14 9:14 a.m., Znoteer via talk wrote:

I don't have it on my Thinkpad.  But then, it doesn't have the original
drive.


Mine is a thinkpad, too (x240), that I'm pretty sure probably started life
with windows on it (I bought used so I'm not sure), but the file is not
there, so it's not a sure thing.

In the end, I guess I'm not disappointed, because I don't really have a use
for Windows anyway.


Mine came with Windows 7, since updated to W10 and it's dual boot Linux 
& Windows.  I do have some need for Windows, including my Garmin GPS 
which has a Windows app to update it and a TP-Link managed switch, which 
has a configuration app that runs on Windows. I have also had some work 
related reasons for needing Windows.


One very important thing I did was to cover the Windows key with a Tux 
sticker that nicely fits in the depression on that key. ;-)


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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Znoteer via talk]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 08:41:49AM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
> On 2021-04-14 7:10 a.m., Dave Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
> > 
> > Cool: strings found
> > 
> > MSDMU
> > LENOVOTP-GL    #
> > PTEC
> > X-XX-X-X-
> > 
> > on my Thinkpad.
> > 
> 
> I don't have it on my Thinkpad.  But then, it doesn't have the original
> drive.
> 

Mine is a thinkpad, too (x240), that I'm pretty sure probably started life
with windows on it (I bought used so I'm not sure), but the file is not
there, so it's not a sure thing.

In the end, I guess I'm not disappointed, because I don't really have a use
for Windows anyway.

--
Znoteer 
znot...@mailbox.org
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[James Knott via talk]

On 2021-04-14 7:10 a.m., Dave Collier-Brown via talk wrote:


Cool: strings found

MSDMU
LENOVOTP-GL    #
PTEC
X-XX-X-X-

on my Thinkpad.



I don't have it on my Thinkpad.  But then, it doesn't have the original 
drive.


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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Dave Collier-Brown via talk]

Cool: strings found

MSDMU
LENOVOTP-GL    #
PTEC
X-XX-X-X-

on my Thinkpad.

--dave

On 2021-04-13 7:42 p.m., Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to 
root), there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with 
strings


 Stewart



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--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-br...@indexexchange.com |  -- Mark Twain

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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Stewart Russell via talk]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 21:08, Howard Gibson via talk 
wrote:

>
>That file exists on my system, and I bought it as a motherboard and
> processor.
>

Maybe your motherboard BIOS came with a Windows licence? I don't know all
the ways it can get embedded there.

Either way, if you start the installation, it'll never ask you for a key
and you'll find everything's authorized automatically. Some machines (like
this HP laptop) have very obvious OEM licenses (the string "OEM" shows up
several times in the BIOS record) that probably wouldn't transfer well to
VirtualBox, etc.

cheers,
 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Howard Gibson via talk]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:42:47 -0400
Stewart Russell via talk  wrote:

> If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to root),
> there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings
> 
>  Stewart

Stewart,

   That file exists on my system, and I bought it as a motherboard and 
processor.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Mauro Souza via talk]

Thanks Steward! That was a nice find!

Giles,

You can download Windows iso direct from Microsoft:
https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows10

Finding a Windows 7 or 8 iso takes some effort, but you can find them
somewhere.

Mauro
https://www.maurosouza.com - registered Linux User: 294521
Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God.


Em ter., 13 de abr. de 2021 às 21:20, Stewart Russell via talk <
talk@gtalug.org> escreveu:

> On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 20:13, Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
>
>>
>> When you installed Linux on a Windows computer?  I wiped Windows, but
>> the firmware data is still there:
>>
>
> Or if it was pre-installed on your computer by the vendor. I don't think
> the laptop I bought in 2013 ever ran Windows, but that code was in
> /sys/firmware from the vendor.
>
>  Stewart
>
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[James Knott via talk]

On 2021-04-13 8:13 p.m., Giles Orr via talk wrote:

I don't seem to have that file, and I'm not surprised.  Under what
circumstances might one have that file on a linux system?

When you installed Linux on a Windows computer?  I wiped Windows, but
the firmware data is still there:


My computer didn't come with Windows.  I installed Linux on a bare system.

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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Stewart Russell via talk]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 20:13, Giles Orr via talk  wrote:

>
> When you installed Linux on a Windows computer?  I wiped Windows, but
> the firmware data is still there:
>

Or if it was pre-installed on your computer by the vendor. I don't think
the laptop I bought in 2013 ever ran Windows, but that code was in
/sys/firmware from the vendor.

 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Giles Orr via talk]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 19:48, Znoteer via talk  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 07:42:47PM -0400, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
> > If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to root),
> > there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings
> >
>
> I don't seem to have that file, and I'm not surprised.  Under what
> circumstances might one have that file on a linux system?

When you installed Linux on a Windows computer?  I wiped Windows, but
the firmware data is still there:

# cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM
MSDMU:_ASUS_Notebook ASUS-K--K-K#

(License string obfuscated.)  'strings' not required.

Fascinating: thank you Stewart, this may make it possible to install
Windows 10 in VirtualBox - of course I still have to lay hands on a
matching version of Windows, although those are easier to find than
legitimate license keys.  Hmm - I wonder if the "ASUS" at the
beginning of the key means it only works with Asus versions of W10 ...

-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Znoteer via talk]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 07:42:47PM -0400, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
> If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to root),
> there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings
> 

I don't seem to have that file, and I'm not surprised.  Under what
circumstances might one have that file on a linux system?

-- 
Znoteer
znot...@mailbox.org
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[GTALUG] You may already have a Windows licence and not know it …

[Stewart Russell via talk]

If the file /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM exists (it's read-only to root),
there's probably a key embedded in there you can pull out with strings

 Stewart
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