RE: Screen Reader Reflections, from abroad
Hi David. I totally understand you now. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 10:36 PM To: WE English Mailinglist Subject: Screen Reader Reflections, from abroad First of all, a small correction. I did not mean to say whether there will be more Window-Eyes users than Jaws users locally. I just said that the authorities have prioritized the WE screen reader for a handful years. In practical terms, that means that if you are a new user, and do apply for a screen reader, and you don't have special reasons for sticking to a particular product, you likely will be given a copy of Window-Eyes. Specially so, since you can install the localized version of WE, on as many computers as possible, which is not the case with Jaws (from what I am told). Would you happen to be an existing Jaws user, or a user of any other screen reader, and need an update of your product, you will still get the upgrade of your existing product. So, you are currently not forced to change screen reader. Pricing, licensing and whatever other reasons, currently have been a bit more favorable on Window-Eyes than what was the case with Jaws. On the other hand, to my understanding Jaws has been on the market over here, for a few years more than Window-eyes, and for different reasons were the prioritized product from many authority agents for a number of years. As such, we will have a considerable number of existing Jaws users - from old. Hope that cleared up my somehow vague description of the local practice, and do apologize for not being too specific in my original message. If you look at my illustrative figures, I even specified that quite a number of users would NOT be current Window-Eyes users. That is why my figures did go that low. Having all that said, let's go back another five years or so, and things were a bit different. At that time, it was even more up to the user to determine what screen reader he or she wanted. In those days, the local dealers did a job on convincing you why you should choose their product, above the others. Locally, you would find both Window-Eyes, Supernova, and Jaws. Each being promoted as more or less superior. With some dealers being a bit more on the forefront, this caused a load of users to choose the most promoted screen reader; not necessarily the one that served them the better, or the one that would be most economic for the paying authorities. Licensing issues, along with the fact that Window-Eyes at the time could be said to be a bit outstanding, amongst other things due to the scripting capabilities, might have been some heavy reasons why the authorities decided to make it more of a default choice, for the newer users. Yet, this all will be a bit simplified a picture of the whole situation. You might experience slight differences from one area in our country, to the other. It all would depend on how much the user insist on going for one screen reader, or the other. Sometimes, if a user wants a specific Braille display, and that happens to be the one the Jaws dealer would be selling, the authority agent who process your application, might judge that it will be an easier go to have one and same dealer for the complete computer system. Should the next user insist on a Braille display, a Braille embosser, or another piece of equipment that is sold by the Window-Eyes dealer, again the agent might find it more convenient to order a total package from one and same seller. And then, if the user is a bit more informed, and insist on choosing one product from that dealer, and the other product from the next dealer, the agent will likely put together a cross-board package for you. Unfortunately, in this regard, the dealer of Window-Eyes might not necessarily be the most foreground one, though that might be just what I as an end-user would feel. Alot of these decisions, are made behind the scene, since every so often, the authorities will have a review of their contracts with the dealers in the market. Such a review, about a decade ago, lead to at least one screen reader falling totally out of the approved list of products, due to the dealer not meeting the requirements from the authorities. The dealers will have to meet requirements on delivering time, customer service, pricing and licensing, stock-keeping - along with who knows whatever else. When will they do the next review? I do not know, and noone can tell if they will still stick with Window-Eyes as the prioritized screen reader. I am living in Scandinavia, but these kind of authority coverage plans, will exist even in other European countries, with whatever modifications might be the case. Some countries have a "one size fits all" policy, others are a bit more flexible. Some are on a very strict budget, others have more loose frames on the economic part. And it differs a bit from one country to the other, exactly what
Screen Reader Reflections, from abroad
First of all, a small correction. I did not mean to say whether there will be more Window-Eyes users than Jaws users locally. I just said that the authorities have prioritized the WE screen reader for a handful years. In practical terms, that means that if you are a new user, and do apply for a screen reader, and you don't have special reasons for sticking to a particular product, you likely will be given a copy of Window-Eyes. Specially so, since you can install the localized version of WE, on as many computers as possible, which is not the case with Jaws (from what I am told). Would you happen to be an existing Jaws user, or a user of any other screen reader, and need an update of your product, you will still get the upgrade of your existing product. So, you are currently not forced to change screen reader. Pricing, licensing and whatever other reasons, currently have been a bit more favorable on Window-Eyes than what was the case with Jaws. On the other hand, to my understanding Jaws has been on the market over here, for a few years more than Window-eyes, and for different reasons were the prioritized product from many authority agents for a number of years. As such, we will have a considerable number of existing Jaws users - from old. Hope that cleared up my somehow vague description of the local practice, and do apologize for not being too specific in my original message. If you look at my illustrative figures, I even specified that quite a number of users would NOT be current Window-Eyes users. That is why my figures did go that low. Having all that said, let's go back another five years or so, and things were a bit different. At that time, it was even more up to the user to determine what screen reader he or she wanted. In those days, the local dealers did a job on convincing you why you should choose their product, above the others. Locally, you would find both Window-Eyes, Supernova, and Jaws. Each being promoted as more or less superior. With some dealers being a bit more on the forefront, this caused a load of users to choose the most promoted screen reader; not necessarily the one that served them the better, or the one that would be most economic for the paying authorities. Licensing issues, along with the fact that Window-Eyes at the time could be said to be a bit outstanding, amongst other things due to the scripting capabilities, might have been some heavy reasons why the authorities decided to make it more of a default choice, for the newer users. Yet, this all will be a bit simplified a picture of the whole situation. You might experience slight differences from one area in our country, to the other. It all would depend on how much the user insist on going for one screen reader, or the other. Sometimes, if a user wants a specific Braille display, and that happens to be the one the Jaws dealer would be selling, the authority agent who process your application, might judge that it will be an easier go to have one and same dealer for the complete computer system. Should the next user insist on a Braille display, a Braille embosser, or another piece of equipment that is sold by the Window-Eyes dealer, again the agent might find it more convenient to order a total package from one and same seller. And then, if the user is a bit more informed, and insist on choosing one product from that dealer, and the other product from the next dealer, the agent will likely put together a cross-board package for you. Unfortunately, in this regard, the dealer of Window-Eyes might not necessarily be the most foreground one, though that might be just what I as an end-user would feel. Alot of these decisions, are made behind the scene, since every so often, the authorities will have a review of their contracts with the dealers in the market. Such a review, about a decade ago, lead to at least one screen reader falling totally out of the approved list of products, due to the dealer not meeting the requirements from the authorities. The dealers will have to meet requirements on delivering time, customer service, pricing and licensing, stock-keeping - along with who knows whatever else. When will they do the next review? I do not know, and noone can tell if they will still stick with Window-Eyes as the prioritized screen reader. I am living in Scandinavia, but these kind of authority coverage plans, will exist even in other European countries, with whatever modifications might be the case. Some countries have a "one size fits all" policy, others are a bit more flexible. Some are on a very strict budget, others have more loose frames on the economic part. And it differs a bit from one country to the other, exactly what authorities will be set to handle and process your applications. In one country, it would be the School For The Blind, in the next it might be the Blind Organization, and in the third it might be the Office For Social Pen
Re: announcements
i don't ever receive news headlines, i'm not sure what this is about. can someone help? On 11/23/2016 9:44 PM, Jim via Talk wrote: Hi there Folks! I have quite a few new headlines selected to receive news headlines from. When I first set them up after upgrading to WIn 10 I would here a series of musical notes and then W.E. would read the associated headline. For approximately the last week or two, All I here is the musical tones. Wonder if anyone might know where the audio associated with these headlines may have gone? Have I totally confused everyone? Could there be something I accidently switched off? Can anyone shed some light on this situation? THANKS&Have A Great Day! de . ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rascal0826%40verizon.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
announcements
Hi there Folks! I have quite a few new headlines selected to receive news headlines from. When I first set them up after upgrading to WIn 10 I would here a series of musical notes and then W.E. would read the associated headline. For approximately the last week or two, All I here is the musical tones. Wonder if anyone might know where the audio associated with these headlines may have gone? Have I totally confused everyone? Could there be something I accidently switched off? Can anyone shed some light on this situation? THANKS&Have A Great Day! de . ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Response to Dve about WindowEyes and and the Shark
Just for referencial purposes: PLEASE, keep me out of all politics. My comments were done from a strict end-user perspective, and has no connection with any authority or politics at all. I really don't see that fit in the discussion. I am just pointing out, that whatever decision the VFO team makes, it will bear some kind of consequences for either side of the counter. And, that what seem to be the case one place, will differ strongly the other place. If they were simply dealing with their home-market, things would have been quite easy. They could have done what they want, and everyone will have to comply. Going cross the boarder, they will face a few other challenges, which might call for slightly modified decisions. That goes for VFO, that goes for the Danish Lego-toys, that goes for the chinese electronics. Without knowing all the many laws and regulations, all we could do is to spiculate. And as already pointed out, that won't bring us anything further. My whole hope was just to bring in some new perspectives to the discussion, instead of chiming in with all that already has been repeated a hundred times. Besides, I attempted to show you, that just pulling the plug might not be the easiest way out, for an International company. The merging of two companies, or actually three when we include the AISquared along with GW and VFO, it all will take a load of time and decision-making. as such, I would not be surprised if things still may take a number of weeks. All I wish, along with the rest of you, is that they had been more open about what challenges they are sorting out, and what they hope to get out of it all. For those who want to discuss politics, or even specific persons, I do believe there would be enough other forums to do so. Let's t to keep this list open for everyone, so that all can express themselves, without being drawn into opinions they don't want to meddle with. Again, all my intention was to add some extra thoughts to the discussion, for a wider perspective. Please. ry David On 11/23/2016 8:34 PM, Vaughan Dodd wrote: > I like this angle. > > To add: and at the risk of playing politics - if President Elect Trump > follows through dismantling free trade agreements, perhaps it is timely to > discuss the impact on availability of adaptive technology? If contributors > are correct regarding dismissal of dealers, all sorts of bad practices and > barriers to overseas customers could emerge. > > Vaughan. > > > > Please telephone the Regional Disability and Health Team prior to emailing or > faxing any new referrals. > > Vaughan Dodd, Regional Disability Advisor. > > Desk2desk: 97187. > Email: vaughan.dodd...@msd.govt.nz. > For referrals: email fax_gnlis001_health_disabil...@msd.govt.nz. > > Our up-to-date desk file is located at: > http://doogle.ssi.govt.nz/resources/publications/reports-research/regional/auckland/auckland-health-disability-resources.html > > > -Original Message- > From: Talk > [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On > Behalf Of David via Talk > Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2016 12:21 a.m. > To: Sky Mundell; 'Grant Metcalf'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' > Subject: Re: Response to Dve about WindowEyes and and the Shark > > Might be so, at least in certain places around the globe. I only could talk > from locale perspectives. > > The Jaws screen reader has for long been a headache for the paying > authorities, due to its strictness in copyright and licensing. Besides, one > official told me - and note that this is a few years old info, that Jaws was > way overpriced locally. At the time, I think Jaws was just about 1000 > dollars, in the USA. Locally here, the price without further explanation was > near 6000 dollars. Like he expressed it: "Somewhere across the Atlantic, that > price multiplies nearly by six." > > Since the licensing policy of GW was not yet as strict, and though pricing is > a bit higher here than in the States, still Window-Eyes turns out the cheaper > alternative, it has been the prioritized screen reader of several officials > locally. > > One valid question of course now is, what VFO will do with all the dealers. > As it stands, one dealer sold Window-Eyes and SuperNova, the other sold Jaws. > Are they both going to be in business outperforming each other? Or, will the > one have to leave, and the other be the only alternative on the locale > market? If the latter alternative will happen, people will not be able to > even make a personal choice, since screen reader manufacturers do not sell > directly to end-users outside their home-market. That would definitely force > a number of people to leave Windows machines, simply just to get an > alternative. > > I do not know conditions all over the globe, of course I don't, and I am not > arguing anything of what you said. But I am ready to claim that business > might differ a bit from one part of the world to
RE: searching in windows ten
Hi Brice, The search methodology is the same as it was in Windows 7 or 8. Open the parent folder in which the files or folders are likely to be, and then tab to the search edit box and type your search string, and press Enter. Hth, Rod -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of brice Mijares via Talk Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 2:22 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: searching in windows ten How do you go about searching for files or folders in win ten? windows key brings up a search box, I can't search for files or folder. Seen like windows key will only open programs, setting, control panel ETC. This damn cortana gets in the way I think. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rod_hutton%40hotmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: searching in windows ten
you can turn cortana off in the privacey settings. you can also set the search to only search locally on your computer only and not on the net. but i don't remember where this setting is. for files you could use the file explorer. i think its in the sys tray. this is all from memory because i seldom use windows 10 at all. thats on another removable drive. -Original Message- From: brice Mijares via Talk Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:22 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: searching in windows ten How do you go about searching for files or folders in win ten? windows key brings up a search box, I can't search for files or folder. Seen like windows key will only open programs, setting, control panel ETC. This damn cortana gets in the way I think. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: Response to Dve about WindowEyes and and the Shark
I like this angle. To add: and at the risk of playing politics - if President Elect Trump follows through dismantling free trade agreements, perhaps it is timely to discuss the impact on availability of adaptive technology? If contributors are correct regarding dismissal of dealers, all sorts of bad practices and barriers to overseas customers could emerge. Vaughan. Please telephone the Regional Disability and Health Team prior to emailing or faxing any new referrals. Vaughan Dodd, Regional Disability Advisor. Desk2desk: 97187. Email: vaughan.dodd...@msd.govt.nz. For referrals: email fax_gnlis001_health_disabil...@msd.govt.nz. Our up-to-date desk file is located at: http://doogle.ssi.govt.nz/resources/publications/reports-research/regional/auckland/auckland-health-disability-resources.html -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2016 12:21 a.m. To: Sky Mundell; 'Grant Metcalf'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: Re: Response to Dve about WindowEyes and and the Shark Might be so, at least in certain places around the globe. I only could talk from locale perspectives. The Jaws screen reader has for long been a headache for the paying authorities, due to its strictness in copyright and licensing. Besides, one official told me - and note that this is a few years old info, that Jaws was way overpriced locally. At the time, I think Jaws was just about 1000 dollars, in the USA. Locally here, the price without further explanation was near 6000 dollars. Like he expressed it: "Somewhere across the Atlantic, that price multiplies nearly by six." Since the licensing policy of GW was not yet as strict, and though pricing is a bit higher here than in the States, still Window-Eyes turns out the cheaper alternative, it has been the prioritized screen reader of several officials locally. One valid question of course now is, what VFO will do with all the dealers. As it stands, one dealer sold Window-Eyes and SuperNova, the other sold Jaws. Are they both going to be in business outperforming each other? Or, will the one have to leave, and the other be the only alternative on the locale market? If the latter alternative will happen, people will not be able to even make a personal choice, since screen reader manufacturers do not sell directly to end-users outside their home-market. That would definitely force a number of people to leave Windows machines, simply just to get an alternative. I do not know conditions all over the globe, of course I don't, and I am not arguing anything of what you said. But I am ready to claim that business might differ a bit from one part of the world to the other. And the "We are the only ones" idea, might not necessarily be the one that leads to the highest market-share. For many people and local faculties, the end-question is a matter of economy. That, at least, will stay the same all over the planet. What has happened in the past, with several manufacturers, and a number of products to choose from, cannot necessarily be transfered into a situation with one huge actor, and some small ones. It might be smarter to phase things out over a period of time, than to simply just pull the plug. Given enough time, the market might adjust more smoothly. And I am by no means the one to predict what kind of business model will be the one chosen by VFO, or any other actor. I am just making a few observations, doing a bit of general reasoning , and letting you all know that things might have more than one perspective. What seems to be the case from your local perspective, might seem totally different from another perspective. For instance, you claim that they sued the State Agencies, if they did not buy their product? That will work in the States, maybe. Doubt they could get much far with that approach in Europe. There is even laws that are meant to prevent such business activities. Besides, Europe has had their own screen reader manufacturers up through the years, and so is the case with hardware like Braille displays and speech synthesizers. Once they are going International, a company will have to deal with totally different laws and practices from one place to the other. What works in the US, might not even work in Canada, or in Brazil. That's why I am not sure if we should do too much of specculations. Let's face the facts, and discuss them. Scene of this world is rapidly changing. In two years, our screen reader has been sold twice. How long will the new owner keep it? Or, how long will any screen reader even stay in business? Are you totally sure you really want to insist on a screen reader with tomorrow's technology? What if you could have a graphical display - somehow similar to a Braille display, with pins that came up - which gave you a tactile and correct copy of the screen contents? You know long
searching in windows ten
I forgot to mention window key F brings up something called search hub, or something like that and wants me to enter my micro soft password. I just closed it down. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
searching in windows ten
How do you go about searching for files or folders in win ten? windows key brings up a search box, I can't search for files or folder. Seen like windows key will only open programs, setting, control panel ETC. This damn cortana gets in the way I think. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: Steve Clower
Yes by far Jaws isbetter then NVDA. Remember you get what you pay for or don't pay for. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via Talk Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:02 PM To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: Steve Clower At the risk of being shot down, I'm curious for those of you who've switched from JAWS or still use it how it compares to Window Eyes. When I first needed a screen reader and picked Window Eyes it was largely because I was told the customer service was so much better than for JAWS, and I truly was impressed how easy it was to reach someone at GW. This list has been my larger source for WE help, but I've needed to call GW a few times over the years. Let's say that VFO gives me a transfer to JAWS by some miracle. Is that better than NVDA? I guess if there is a group list this for NVDA users and some good sources for learning the program, I'll adjust to that, but so far I've found it very verbose and I don't know the ways to adjust it yet. I completely understand that not having to pay for a screen reader is very tempting, but I don't want that to be my only reason for choosing a screen reader once I cannot use WE anymore. -Original Message- From: Don H [mailto:lmdd...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 9:54 AM To: Van Lant, Robin; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower Well I don't like change when it comes to my technology but knowing that WE has no long term future I have began the process of learning to use NVDA. I must say I am very impressed with NVDA and am finding in many cases that NVDA works better than WE. I do have two SMA's left and it will be interesting if they are honored in some way. I would think a cash refund would be in order but having delt with FS in the past know it won't be handled in a way that benefits the user. On 11/23/2016 10:46 AM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote: > Well said, Grumpy Dave. I'm disappointed, but if a business can't make it, they do what they can. I unfortunately think I paid for an SMA and haven't used it up, so I'm hoping VFO will give me some sort of credit for that if I'm told to switch. I've never used JAWS and only played with NVDA a tad. I don't like transition, so I hope we can support each other as users for as long as possible. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Talk > [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] On > Behalf Of Dave via Talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:11 PM > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: Steve Clower > > I don't think GW Micro sold its Customer's out. > > Cash Flow has been a problem for a while, and GW Micro started to sell > future Upgrades to make up for the low Cash Flow. JAWS does this, and > I forget what they are called. SMA's? > > Anyway, when you sell future upgrades at a discount, chances are that money is going to pay today's Pay roll and Expenses, and when Tommorow comes, well when tomorrow comes, and cash is still short, you start making Crazy Deals with the Devil. > > Allowing a Free version to anyone owning a copy of MS Office was a > questionable choice for GW Micro to do. Perhaps they received a token > Royalty from Microsoft for every Free Copy Registered.Hard to know, > since no one is telling why that deal with Microsoft was done, and what > GW Micro hoped to gain from it.Money of course, but how? > > I enjoyed dealing with the original cast of Characters at GW Micro. > Good Mid-west values and I think they gave award winning effort when producing their Screen Reader, and then supporting it after the sale. > > I doubt if GW Micro sold us out. But, when a Company doesn't have the cash to hire more talent to keep up with the latest Operating System, as well as everything else GW Micro was doing. > > Hard to really know what the Newest Parent Company intends. This is one of the problems when getting swallowed by a larger fish, which then > gets swallowed by even a larger fish. Communication is bad enough even > within a small Company like GW Micro, but add a couple of extra layers and it's a wonder that anything good gets out the door, or even done! > > > Customers? What Customers? We have Customers? > > Grumpy Dave > > > > > -- > Dave > > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/robin_van_lant %40key.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > > This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the us
RE: Steve Clower
At the risk of being shot down, I'm curious for those of you who've switched from JAWS or still use it how it compares to Window Eyes. When I first needed a screen reader and picked Window Eyes it was largely because I was told the customer service was so much better than for JAWS, and I truly was impressed how easy it was to reach someone at GW. This list has been my larger source for WE help, but I've needed to call GW a few times over the years. Let's say that VFO gives me a transfer to JAWS by some miracle. Is that better than NVDA? I guess if there is a group list this for NVDA users and some good sources for learning the program, I'll adjust to that, but so far I've found it very verbose and I don't know the ways to adjust it yet. I completely understand that not having to pay for a screen reader is very tempting, but I don't want that to be my only reason for choosing a screen reader once I cannot use WE anymore. -Original Message- From: Don H [mailto:lmdd...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 9:54 AM To: Van Lant, Robin; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower Well I don't like change when it comes to my technology but knowing that WE has no long term future I have began the process of learning to use NVDA. I must say I am very impressed with NVDA and am finding in many cases that NVDA works better than WE. I do have two SMA's left and it will be interesting if they are honored in some way. I would think a cash refund would be in order but having delt with FS in the past know it won't be handled in a way that benefits the user. On 11/23/2016 10:46 AM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote: > Well said, Grumpy Dave. I'm disappointed, but if a business can't make it, > they do what they can. I unfortunately think I paid for an SMA and haven't > used it up, so I'm hoping VFO will give me some sort of credit for that if > I'm told to switch. I've never used JAWS and only played with NVDA a tad. I > don't like transition, so I hope we can support each other as users for as > long as possible. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Talk > [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] On > Behalf Of Dave via Talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:11 PM > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: Steve Clower > > I don't think GW Micro sold its Customer's out. > > Cash Flow has been a problem for a while, and GW Micro started to sell > future Upgrades to make up for the low Cash Flow. JAWS does this, and > I forget what they are called. SMA's? > > Anyway, when you sell future upgrades at a discount, chances are that money > is going to pay today's Pay roll and Expenses, and when Tommorow comes, well > when tomorrow comes, and cash is still short, you start making Crazy Deals > with the Devil. > > Allowing a Free version to anyone owning a copy of MS Office was a > questionable choice for GW Micro to do. Perhaps they received a token > Royalty from Microsoft for every Free Copy Registered.Hard to know, > since no one is telling why that deal with Microsoft was done, and what > GW Micro hoped to gain from it.Money of course, but how? > > I enjoyed dealing with the original cast of Characters at GW Micro. > Good Mid-west values and I think they gave award winning effort when > producing their Screen Reader, and then supporting it after the sale. > > I doubt if GW Micro sold us out. But, when a Company doesn't have the cash > to hire more talent to keep up with the latest Operating System, as well as > everything else GW Micro was doing. > > Hard to really know what the Newest Parent Company intends. This is one of > the problems when getting swallowed by a larger fish, which then > gets swallowed by even a larger fish. Communication is bad enough even > within a small Company like GW Micro, but add a couple of extra layers and > it's a wonder that anything good gets out the door, or even done! > > > Customers? What Customers? We have Customers? > > Grumpy Dave > > > > > -- > Dave > > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/robin_van_lant%40key.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > > This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It > is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing > or using any of this information. If you received this communication in > error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the mate
RE: Steve Clower
You get what you pay for or not. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell via Talk Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:57 AM To: 'Don H'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Van Lant, Robin' Subject: RE: Steve Clower Glad that your looking at NVDA. It's a fantastic screen reader. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Don H via Talk Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 8:54 AM To: Van Lant, Robin; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower Well I don't like change when it comes to my technology but knowing that WE has no long term future I have began the process of learning to use NVDA. I must say I am very impressed with NVDA and am finding in many cases that NVDA works better than WE. I do have two SMA's left and it will be interesting if they are honored in some way. I would think a cash refund would be in order but having delt with FS in the past know it won't be handled in a way that benefits the user. On 11/23/2016 10:46 AM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote: > Well said, Grumpy Dave. I'm disappointed, but if a business can't make > it, they do what they can. I unfortunately think I paid for an SMA and haven't used it up, so I'm hoping VFO will give me some sort of credit for that if I'm told to switch. I've never used JAWS and only played with NVDA a tad. I don't like transition, so I hope we can support each other as users for as long as possible. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Talk > [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] On > Behalf Of Dave via Talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:11 PM > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: Steve Clower > > I don't think GW Micro sold its Customer's out. > > Cash Flow has been a problem for a while, and GW Micro started to sell > future Upgrades to make up for the low Cash Flow. JAWS does this, and > I forget what they are called. SMA's? > > Anyway, when you sell future upgrades at a discount, chances are that money is going to pay today's Pay roll and Expenses, and when Tommorow comes, well when tomorrow comes, and cash is still short, you start making Crazy Deals with the Devil. > > Allowing a Free version to anyone owning a copy of MS Office was a > questionable choice for GW Micro to do. Perhaps they received a token > Royalty from Microsoft for every Free Copy Registered.Hard to know, > since no one is telling why that deal with Microsoft was done, and what > GW Micro hoped to gain from it.Money of course, but how? > > I enjoyed dealing with the original cast of Characters at GW Micro. > Good Mid-west values and I think they gave award winning effort when producing their Screen Reader, and then supporting it after the sale. > > I doubt if GW Micro sold us out. But, when a Company doesn't have the cash to hire more talent to keep up with the latest Operating System, as well as everything else GW Micro was doing. > > Hard to really know what the Newest Parent Company intends. This is > one of the problems when getting swallowed by a larger fish, which then > gets swallowed by even a larger fish. Communication is bad enough even > within a small Company like GW Micro, but add a couple of extra layers > and it's a wonder that anything good gets out the door, or even done! > > > Customers? What Customers? We have Customers? > > Grumpy Dave > > > > > -- > Dave > > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/robin_van_lant %40key.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > > This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information. > > 127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114 If you prefer not to receive > future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail > to mailto:dnereque...@key.com with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the > SUBJECT line. > >
RE: Steve Clower
Glad that your looking at NVDA. It's a fantastic screen reader. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Don H via Talk Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 8:54 AM To: Van Lant, Robin; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower Well I don't like change when it comes to my technology but knowing that WE has no long term future I have began the process of learning to use NVDA. I must say I am very impressed with NVDA and am finding in many cases that NVDA works better than WE. I do have two SMA's left and it will be interesting if they are honored in some way. I would think a cash refund would be in order but having delt with FS in the past know it won't be handled in a way that benefits the user. On 11/23/2016 10:46 AM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote: > Well said, Grumpy Dave. I'm disappointed, but if a business can't make it, they do what they can. I unfortunately think I paid for an SMA and haven't used it up, so I'm hoping VFO will give me some sort of credit for that if I'm told to switch. I've never used JAWS and only played with NVDA a tad. I don't like transition, so I hope we can support each other as users for as long as possible. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Talk > [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] On > Behalf Of Dave via Talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:11 PM > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: Steve Clower > > I don't think GW Micro sold its Customer's out. > > Cash Flow has been a problem for a while, and GW Micro started to sell > future Upgrades to make up for the low Cash Flow. JAWS does this, and > I forget what they are called. SMA's? > > Anyway, when you sell future upgrades at a discount, chances are that money is going to pay today's Pay roll and Expenses, and when Tommorow comes, well when tomorrow comes, and cash is still short, you start making Crazy Deals with the Devil. > > Allowing a Free version to anyone owning a copy of MS Office was a > questionable choice for GW Micro to do. Perhaps they received a token > Royalty from Microsoft for every Free Copy Registered.Hard to know, > since no one is telling why that deal with Microsoft was done, and what > GW Micro hoped to gain from it.Money of course, but how? > > I enjoyed dealing with the original cast of Characters at GW Micro. > Good Mid-west values and I think they gave award winning effort when producing their Screen Reader, and then supporting it after the sale. > > I doubt if GW Micro sold us out. But, when a Company doesn't have the cash to hire more talent to keep up with the latest Operating System, as well as everything else GW Micro was doing. > > Hard to really know what the Newest Parent Company intends. This is one of the problems when getting swallowed by a larger fish, which then > gets swallowed by even a larger fish. Communication is bad enough even > within a small Company like GW Micro, but add a couple of extra layers and it's a wonder that anything good gets out the door, or even done! > > > Customers? What Customers? We have Customers? > > Grumpy Dave > > > > > -- > Dave > > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/robin_van_lant %40key.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > > This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information. > > 127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114 If you prefer not to receive > future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail > to mailto:dnereque...@key.com with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the > SUBJECT line. > > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lmddh50%40comc ast.net. > For sub
Re: Steve Clower
Well I don't like change when it comes to my technology but knowing that WE has no long term future I have began the process of learning to use NVDA. I must say I am very impressed with NVDA and am finding in many cases that NVDA works better than WE. I do have two SMA's left and it will be interesting if they are honored in some way. I would think a cash refund would be in order but having delt with FS in the past know it won't be handled in a way that benefits the user. On 11/23/2016 10:46 AM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote: Well said, Grumpy Dave. I'm disappointed, but if a business can't make it, they do what they can. I unfortunately think I paid for an SMA and haven't used it up, so I'm hoping VFO will give me some sort of credit for that if I'm told to switch. I've never used JAWS and only played with NVDA a tad. I don't like transition, so I hope we can support each other as users for as long as possible. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dave via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:11 PM To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower I don't think GW Micro sold its Customer's out. Cash Flow has been a problem for a while, and GW Micro started to sell future Upgrades to make up for the low Cash Flow. JAWS does this, and I forget what they are called. SMA's? Anyway, when you sell future upgrades at a discount, chances are that money is going to pay today's Pay roll and Expenses, and when Tommorow comes, well when tomorrow comes, and cash is still short, you start making Crazy Deals with the Devil. Allowing a Free version to anyone owning a copy of MS Office was a questionable choice for GW Micro to do. Perhaps they received a token Royalty from Microsoft for every Free Copy Registered.Hard to know, since no one is telling why that deal with Microsoft was done, and what GW Micro hoped to gain from it.Money of course, but how? I enjoyed dealing with the original cast of Characters at GW Micro. Good Mid-west values and I think they gave award winning effort when producing their Screen Reader, and then supporting it after the sale. I doubt if GW Micro sold us out. But, when a Company doesn't have the cash to hire more talent to keep up with the latest Operating System, as well as everything else GW Micro was doing. Hard to really know what the Newest Parent Company intends. This is one of the problems when getting swallowed by a larger fish, which then gets swallowed by even a larger fish. Communication is bad enough even within a small Company like GW Micro, but add a couple of extra layers and it's a wonder that anything good gets out the door, or even done! Customers? What Customers? We have Customers? Grumpy Dave -- Dave ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/robin_van_lant%40key.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information. 127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114 If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to mailto:dnereque...@key.com with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lmddh50%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options,
RE: Steve Clower
Well said, Grumpy Dave. I'm disappointed, but if a business can't make it, they do what they can. I unfortunately think I paid for an SMA and haven't used it up, so I'm hoping VFO will give me some sort of credit for that if I'm told to switch. I've never used JAWS and only played with NVDA a tad. I don't like transition, so I hope we can support each other as users for as long as possible. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dave via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:11 PM To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower I don't think GW Micro sold its Customer's out. Cash Flow has been a problem for a while, and GW Micro started to sell future Upgrades to make up for the low Cash Flow. JAWS does this, and I forget what they are called. SMA's? Anyway, when you sell future upgrades at a discount, chances are that money is going to pay today's Pay roll and Expenses, and when Tommorow comes, well when tomorrow comes, and cash is still short, you start making Crazy Deals with the Devil. Allowing a Free version to anyone owning a copy of MS Office was a questionable choice for GW Micro to do. Perhaps they received a token Royalty from Microsoft for every Free Copy Registered.Hard to know, since no one is telling why that deal with Microsoft was done, and what GW Micro hoped to gain from it.Money of course, but how? I enjoyed dealing with the original cast of Characters at GW Micro. Good Mid-west values and I think they gave award winning effort when producing their Screen Reader, and then supporting it after the sale. I doubt if GW Micro sold us out. But, when a Company doesn't have the cash to hire more talent to keep up with the latest Operating System, as well as everything else GW Micro was doing. Hard to really know what the Newest Parent Company intends. This is one of the problems when getting swallowed by a larger fish, which then gets swallowed by even a larger fish. Communication is bad enough even within a small Company like GW Micro, but add a couple of extra layers and it's a wonder that anything good gets out the door, or even done! Customers? What Customers? We have Customers? Grumpy Dave -- Dave ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/robin_van_lant%40key.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information. 127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114 If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to mailto:dnereque...@key.com with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
VFO and Dealers
Hi all, Roger sent a note to the NFB of Wisconsin news list last week. He said that they are getting rid of all the dealers. The handwriting is deffinitely on the wall, and there's nothing that the customers and dealers can do about it. I suggest we stop discussing it here because of it, and just deal with the process the best way each of us can. Use Window-Eyes until the current version doesn't work anymore, or change to NVDA or something else. We're powerless against such a big conglomerate. Happy Thanksgiving to all here. Blessings, Linda ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Steve Clower
My problem with NVDA is, I can't use my tripletalk with it. I wished that NVDA had a Window Eyes keyboard layout. -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:57 PM To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower Have been a WE user since version 1.1 if my memory serves me correctly. Seeing the writing on the wall I have began the process of learning NVDA and I am finding it very useable.I think that GW sold us out a long time ago and the only direction WE will now go is down. So sorry to think and say that as I have always felt that WE was the best scren reader out there. I guess nothing lasts forever in todays world. On 11/22/2016 4:46 PM, Vaughan Dodd via Talk wrote: I have made that decision with respect to personal computing. Hauled out my MacBook purchased over a year ago last weekend. Got sighted assistance to crank into proper life. And made real progress with VoiceOver. A long way to go, but I plan to buy the book from Mosen Consulting on learning to use Pages. Already using Mail and plan to play with Safari very soon. Ok: Apple's customer service isn't great either, (apart from sales), but accessibility is better than the VFO and Microsoft combination, and for me it is a point of principle now. Maybe I'm unreasonable. When Humanware shifted out of New Zealand (where I live) I decided never to buy another Humanware product. And - I've stuck to that position for almost 10 years. I did understand Humanware's business decision, which of itself, made perfect sense. As things stand - I don't plan to buy another VFO product. My money is worth something, and given the abysmal customer relations we are seeing, VFO and I fundamentally disagree on how much my customer patronage should be valued. Although we on this list have these discussions based on an event such as the departure of respected virtual friend, staff turnover is natural and healthy. Staff turnover is not for me the central point. My concern is the arrogant disregard from Corporate VFO when loyal customers start by asking reasonable questions, based on reasonable concerns. We should probably conclude that the list is not being monitored by senior VFO Executives. I do not expect staff to try and defend the behaviours of the senior executive. I expect Vice Presidents and above to lead accountability to their customers. VFO is a multi-national, multi-million dollar corporate, receiving Government contracts in numerous countries. So: if people can make informed choices regarding alternatives to what they currently have, vote with feet, dollars, word of mouth advertising and everything else that is available. Vaughan. Vaughan. Please telephone the Regional Disability and Health Team prior to emailing or faxing any new referrals. Vaughan Dodd, Regional Disability Advisor. Desk2desk: 97187. Email: vaughan.dodd...@msd.govt.nz. For referrals: email fax_gnlis001_health_disabil...@msd.govt.nz. Our up-to-date desk file is located at: http://doogle.ssi.govt.nz/resources/publications/reports-research/regional/auckland/auckland-health-disability-resources.html -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Chao via Talk Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2016 11:04 a.m. To: Tony Hernandez; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Steve Clower Tell you what - if we're forced to by Shark, I may just forget about Windows machines as much as I can. Being forced into a screenreader and culture I don't like is like having our new president-elect take officve. I like neither of them. Just my thoughts.--Matthew Chao On 11/22/2016 4:56 PM, Tony Hernandez via Talk wrote: I wrote an e-mail to i...@vfo-group.com asking about this. Perhaps if enough people did the same, they might feel it appropriate to give some kind of info about this. It's worth a shot. What's the worst they could do in response? On 11/22/2016 11:59 AM, Singing Sparrow via Talk wrote: You know I feel this as well; The thing is that Since Asquared bought out GWMicro the software has not gotten any better; the tech support has gotten lax in what they do; and lets face it the main contributers for the Window eyes screen reader have all but gone. So Yes I do agree the writing is on the wall for window eyes. On 11/22/2016 8:20 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote: It's also news to me as well. With several employees leaving AI Squared, it looks like the writing is on the wall for Window Eyes! -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 9:54 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; kitty hevener Subject: Re: Steve Clower :( this is news to me. I must have missed the email announcing he was leaving. Need anymore proof we is going to be killed off yet? On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 11:08 AM kitty hevener via Talk < talk@lists.window-eyes.c
WE and standard windows dotNet DataGridView
Hi: I am trying to figure out the best way to display a grid object to folks using WindowEyes. In dotNet, windows, the standard object is the DataGridView. You can have the column headings along the top and all the values in individual cells in a standard array configuration. It works much like an Excel spreadsheet. In the past WindowEyes has struggled with many of these types of controls but that was a few years ago. Has Windoweyes managed to get the point where it works well with the DataGridControl or is there another type of layout that is used by you folks to display a grid of data and have some way to easily read across a row, up and down a column and speak the column title using a hot key and, or, other features? I am guessing you may have either used such matrix representations or even, you scriptors, created them and, if anyone has done any programming, perhaps worked with something akin to the visual studio, standard windows, DataGridView control. I heard that this control works well with another popular screen reader but I remember many problems with it under WindowEyes back a few years ago. Anyway, I am looking for color before spending allot of time building what will be a pretty complicated math UI involving some linear algebra and would like to stick with WindowEyes if there is a simple object I can use to display the matrix and its values and headings. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Response to Dve about WindowEyes and and the Shark
Might be so, at least in certain places around the globe. I only could talk from locale perspectives. The Jaws screen reader has for long been a headache for the paying authorities, due to its strictness in copyright and licensing. Besides, one official told me - and note that this is a few years old info, that Jaws was way overpriced locally. At the time, I think Jaws was just about 1000 dollars, in the USA. Locally here, the price without further explanation was near 6000 dollars. Like he expressed it: "Somewhere across the Atlantic, that price multiplies nearly by six." Since the licensing policy of GW was not yet as strict, and though pricing is a bit higher here than in the States, still Window-Eyes turns out the cheaper alternative, it has been the prioritized screen reader of several officials locally. One valid question of course now is, what VFO will do with all the dealers. As it stands, one dealer sold Window-Eyes and SuperNova, the other sold Jaws. Are they both going to be in business outperforming each other? Or, will the one have to leave, and the other be the only alternative on the locale market? If the latter alternative will happen, people will not be able to even make a personal choice, since screen reader manufacturers do not sell directly to end-users outside their home-market. That would definitely force a number of people to leave Windows machines, simply just to get an alternative. I do not know conditions all over the globe, of course I don't, and I am not arguing anything of what you said. But I am ready to claim that business might differ a bit from one part of the world to the other. And the "We are the only ones" idea, might not necessarily be the one that leads to the highest market-share. For many people and local faculties, the end-question is a matter of economy. That, at least, will stay the same all over the planet. What has happened in the past, with several manufacturers, and a number of products to choose from, cannot necessarily be transfered into a situation with one huge actor, and some small ones. It might be smarter to phase things out over a period of time, than to simply just pull the plug. Given enough time, the market might adjust more smoothly. And I am by no means the one to predict what kind of business model will be the one chosen by VFO, or any other actor. I am just making a few observations, doing a bit of general reasoning, and letting you all know that things might have more than one perspective. What seems to be the case from your local perspective, might seem totally different from another perspective. For instance, you claim that they sued the State Agencies, if they did not buy their product? That will work in the States, maybe. Doubt they could get much far with that approach in Europe. There is even laws that are meant to prevent such business activities. Besides, Europe has had their own screen reader manufacturers up through the years, and so is the case with hardware like Braille displays and speech synthesizers. Once they are going International, a company will have to deal with totally different laws and practices from one place to the other. What works in the US, might not even work in Canada, or in Brazil. That's why I am not sure if we should do too much of specculations. Let's face the facts, and discuss them. Scene of this world is rapidly changing. In two years, our screen reader has been sold twice. How long will the new owner keep it? Or, how long will any screen reader even stay in business? Are you totally sure you really want to insist on a screen reader with tomorrow's technology? What if you could have a graphical display - somehow similar to a Braille display, with pins that came up - which gave you a tactile and correct copy of the screen contents? You know longer would need a screen reader to do any interpretation. What you could touch and feel, would be exactly the shape that formed on the visual screen. Sure, were you to have one pin for each pixel on the screen, your tactile display would be tremendously huge and clumsy. But you are already trained to only concentrate on a small part of the screen, and build a complete picture of it all in your brain. Besides, even sighted people now aday, love to stare at their tiny cellphone display, with far less pixels. Imagine you were offered a display, the size of a CD cover, holding a matrix of something like 50 by 60 pins. It would not amount up to anything more pins than what is inside a 40-cell Braille display currently; so the price might not even be all that scarry. The whole unit might be under a pound, or less than half a kilogram. Each pin on the unit, would represent one pixel on the screen. Small buttons would let you scroll up, down and sideways on the screen; moving the unit round the screen contents. Since it would make a true copy of the shapes on the screen, you don't even have to bother learn
RE: Response to Dve about WindowEyes and and the Shark
Wow, the Jaws screen reader must be the equivalent of JP Morgan, Rockefeller and Carnegie! I guess it can't be challenged under the antitrust law! Cartel must be great especially with Window-Eyes now sucked in and in bed with the strange fellows that elected to put it out of business as it did with FreedomBox! 15 years from today, I can't help but wonder if computers will still exist as we know it; then Jaws may be put out of its misery as Android and iOS continue to evolve! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
