Re: Question About WLM

[net bat via Talk]

open the ribbon and find it.
it says grid drop down button then it will say application menu.
you press enter on it  then arrow down to options then  to mail then go to the 
tab control to  send.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

Yes, I am using WLM 2012.

How do I find the applications menu?

-Bob.

-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:42 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

are you useing wlm 2012?
its in the applications pull down
options, mail.
then go to the control tab to send
the option is in there.
there is another option there about plain text but i left this alone. grin.
i
don't want to mess mine up.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

You wrote:

try turning off the option to send your
message in the format it was sent in.
 maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain
text.

How do I do this?

-Bob


-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:18 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

sometimes, like if you have firefox and wlm loaded at the same time w e will
lose focus and i have to open the wlm pull down menu and click on restore
and
speech will come back.
but most of the time i have to unload and reload w e and speech will come
back.
i also have to reload w e if i am composeing a message and press escape,
which
turns browse mode on. once i do this i get invalid key with every key i
press.
when it does this i have to reload w e to get it back.
***
this may not make any difference. but try turning off the option to send
your
message in the format it was sent in.
maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain
text.
***
make sure the message window is maximized.
sometimes this helps.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:37 AM
To: Talk
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Question About WLM

Windows 10

Window-Eyes 9.4.5

WLM



This started a couple months ago.



When I use the N command to open and write an email, I can’t read what I am
writing. I can read the address and subject, but not the text.



I have to write it in Word and then paste it into the out-going email.



I can read incoming emails no sweat.



I used to be able to read while writing an email, but not now.



Any suggestions?





Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Re: Question About WLM

[Robert Ringwald via Talk]

Yes, I am using WLM 2012.

How do I find the applications menu?

-Bob.

-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:42 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

are you useing wlm 2012?
its in the applications pull down
options, mail.
then go to the control tab to send
the option is in there.
there is another option there about plain text but i left this alone. grin. 
i

don't want to mess mine up.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

You wrote:

try turning off the option to send your
message in the format it was sent in.
 maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain
text.

How do I do this?

-Bob


-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:18 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

sometimes, like if you have firefox and wlm loaded at the same time w e will
lose focus and i have to open the wlm pull down menu and click on restore
and
speech will come back.
but most of the time i have to unload and reload w e and speech will come
back.
i also have to reload w e if i am composeing a message and press escape,
which
turns browse mode on. once i do this i get invalid key with every key i
press.
when it does this i have to reload w e to get it back.
***
this may not make any difference. but try turning off the option to send
your
message in the format it was sent in.
maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain
text.
***
make sure the message window is maximized.
sometimes this helps.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:37 AM
To: Talk
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Question About WLM

Windows 10

Window-Eyes 9.4.5

WLM



This started a couple months ago.



When I use the N command to open and write an email, I can’t read what I am
writing. I can read the address and subject, but not the text.



I have to write it in Word and then paste it into the out-going email.



I can read incoming emails no sweat.



I used to be able to read while writing an email, but not now.



Any suggestions?





Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Re: Question About WLM

[net bat via Talk]

are you useing wlm 2012?
its in the applications pull down
options, mail.
then go to the control tab to send
the option is in there.
there is another option there about plain text but i left this alone. grin. i 
don't want to mess mine up.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

You wrote:

try turning off the option to send your
message in the format it was sent in.
 maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain
text.

How do I do this?

-Bob


-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:18 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

sometimes, like if you have firefox and wlm loaded at the same time w e will
lose focus and i have to open the wlm pull down menu and click on restore
and
speech will come back.
but most of the time i have to unload and reload w e and speech will come
back.
i also have to reload w e if i am composeing a message and press escape,
which
turns browse mode on. once i do this i get invalid key with every key i
press.
when it does this i have to reload w e to get it back.
***
this may not make any difference. but try turning off the option to send
your
message in the format it was sent in.
maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain
text.
***
make sure the message window is maximized.
sometimes this helps.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:37 AM
To: Talk
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Question About WLM

Windows 10

Window-Eyes 9.4.5

WLM



This started a couple months ago.



When I use the N command to open and write an email, I can’t read what I am
writing. I can read the address and subject, but not the text.



I have to write it in Word and then paste it into the out-going email.



I can read incoming emails no sweat.



I used to be able to read while writing an email, but not now.



Any suggestions?





Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Re: Firefox Again

[net bat via Talk]

52.5 is working fine here.
one thing to check though. i keep getting nagged to install the chrome browser.
every time there tool box notification w e browse mode stops working until you 
can find and close the popup.
the firefox pull down menus  are another problem. if the screen is miximized 
they will not open.

try pressing f11 to restore the screen size to get the pull down menus back.
***
are you useing the 32 or 64 bit version? i use the 32 bit version.
you can find out if you open the help pull down then click on about. use the 
tab keys to read the dialog box
i have windows 64 bit but i have had some problems with the 64bit version of 
firefox for years.




-Original Message- 
From: David via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 1:28 AM
To: WE English Mailinglist
Cc: David
Subject: Firefox Again

A couple of weeks ago, we had the new Firefox breaking the accessibility
under WinEyes. It is well known, from version 56 and up, Firefox will no
longer operate with WinEyes.


Someone kindly pointed us to the business - or ESR - version of firefox,
at the time being version 52. I followed their advice, and installed it,
greatly enjoying to have my Firefox back on stage.


This morning, Firefox notified me there was a security update to my
installation. In other words, no new version, just a maintenence update.
Hence, I agreed to have it perform the update.


Yeah, I take it, you have already guessed what. From now on, my Firefox
says version 52.5, and is no longer doable with WinEyes. It no longer
goes into the programs Main Window, but says Document Window. Here you
can tab around, but the arrow keys produces no real effect, and browse
mode is reported to be:

Not Available.

Oh, how I hate that message. Smiles.


OK, if anyone have seen different behavior, or have got to a bit of
knowledge on how to get Firefox back, we are all ears. To me, it seems
Firefox simply has crept out of all cooperation with our screen reader.
Little do I hold it realistic it will ever come back.


Some place, I seem to recently have read, that someone from the NVDA
team had gone to Mozilla. It then is strange that we are facing this
kind of lack of accessibility. It even states, under Help and About,
that Firefox is meant to make the web accessible to everyone. I guess,
that means except from old-timers with their WinEyes. Smiles and LOL.


For some, Chrome might be an alternative. The rest of us, will be back
to Internet Explorer. Chrome has its benefits, but so far I have had
issues with it under certain operations.


Following NVDA discussions lately, even that screen reader seem to have
high issues with the newest firefox releases. It is being claimed,
things will get better in version 58, but to what extent that will
affect WinEyes, I am doubtful. And a recent note I read from VFO, on
Jaws, seemed to indicate that even Jaws users are experiencing trouble
with Mozilla lately. It was recommended not to use Firefox with Jaws
2018, if I remember correctly. Currently, I am not on that version of
Jaws, so cannot confirm. Anyone here has had a chance to test newest
releases of the screen reader and browser together?


Goodbye to a long-lasting browser, which had numerous and beneficial
advantages over any other products. Along with the somehow old-fashioned
way of operating the web with Jaws - which to a degree reminds me of
where WinEyes was a handful of years ago, the whole Internet browsing
experience now seem to be a setback. Sure is going to take a bit of
time, to get back to normal browsing speed.


Sure, they made it secure? Didn't they. So secure you can't even use it.
That is another kind of safety. Well, seems not even sighted users are
comfortable with the newest moves from Mozilla. Probably why they tell
the next release (58) will have some advancements. Does it remind you of
what happened to things like Windows8, and the fact they had to go back
on certain of the news, when releasing next versions? So maybe we should
not wave totally goodbye to Mozilla all yet. I just wish they would have
a setting somewhere, which would let the browser run the old way, even
if they make some security adjustments behind the scene.


Just wanted to let you know my findings. If anyone have ideas, I for one
will be listening.


For your info, I am under Win7 64bit, and the Firefox is reported as
v52.5ESR 32bit.


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Re: Question About WLM

[Robert Ringwald via Talk]

You wrote:

try turning off the option to send your
message in the format it was sent in.
 maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain 
text.


How do I do this?

-Bob


-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:18 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Question About WLM

sometimes, like if you have firefox and wlm loaded at the same time w e will
lose focus and i have to open the wlm pull down menu and click on restore 
and

speech will come back.
but most of the time i have to unload and reload w e and speech will come 
back.
i also have to reload w e if i am composeing a message and press escape, 
which
turns browse mode on. once i do this i get invalid key with every key i 
press.

when it does this i have to reload w e to get it back.
***
this may not make any difference. but try turning off the option to send 
your

message in the format it was sent in.
maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain 
text.

***
make sure the message window is maximized.
sometimes this helps.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:37 AM
To: Talk
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Question About WLM

Windows 10

Window-Eyes 9.4.5

WLM



This started a couple months ago.



When I use the N command to open and write an email, I can’t read what I am
writing. I can read the address and subject, but not the text.



I have to write it in Word and then paste it into the out-going email.



I can read incoming emails no sweat.



I used to be able to read while writing an email, but not now.



Any suggestions?





Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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For List Owner

[Robert Ringwald via Talk]

I am subscribed under two email addresses. 



r...@ringwald.com and r...@ringwald.com



I cannot get unsubcribbed from r...@ringwald.com



Can you please do it for me?







Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet 
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, 
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Re: Question About WLM

[net bat via Talk]

sometimes, like if you have firefox and wlm loaded at the same time w e will 
lose focus and i have to open the wlm pull down menu and click on restore and 
speech will come back.

but most of the time i have to unload and reload w e and speech will come back.
i also have to reload w e if i am composeing a message and press escape, which 
turns browse mode on. once i do this i get invalid key with every key i press. 
when it does this i have to reload w e to get it back.

***
this may not make any difference. but try turning off the option to send your 
message in the format it was sent in.

maybe when you send a message it is useing html format instead of plain text.
***
make sure the message window is maximized.
sometimes this helps.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Ringwald via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:37 AM
To: Talk
Cc: Robert Ringwald
Subject: Question About WLM

Windows 10

Window-Eyes 9.4.5

WLM



This started a couple months ago.



When I use the N command to open and write an email, I can’t read what I am 
writing. I can read the address and subject, but not the text.




I have to write it in Word and then paste it into the out-going email.



I can read incoming emails no sweat.



I used to be able to read while writing an email, but not now.



Any suggestions?





Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Question About WLM

[Robert Ringwald via Talk]

Windows 10

Window-Eyes 9.4.5

WLM 



This started a couple months ago.



When I use the N command to open and write an email, I can’t read what I am 
writing. I can read the address and subject, but not the text. 



I have to write it in Word and then paste it into the out-going email.



I can read incoming emails no sweat.



I used to be able to read while writing an email, but not now. 



Any suggestions?





Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet 
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, 
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Re: Help Constructing Blind Friendly Web Site

[Robert Ringwald via Talk]

Thanks.



-Original Message- 
From: Tom Kingston via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 6:34 AM
To: Robert Ringwald via Talk
Cc: Tom Kingston
Subject: Re: Help Constructing Blind Friendly Web Site

Hi Bob,
Here's a quick rundown.
https://webaccess.berkeley.edu/resources/tips/web-accessibility#main
And here's more than you ever wanted to know from the world wide web
consortium.
http://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/accessibility
Hth,
Tom


On 11/15/2017 8:24 AM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:
Someone I know is constructing a web site for a club. I need to give her a 
couple web sites to get info about putting together a blind friendly site.




Any help?



Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Re: Help Constructing Blind Friendly Web Site

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

Hi Bob,
Here's a quick rundown.
https://webaccess.berkeley.edu/resources/tips/web-accessibility#main
And here's more than you ever wanted to know from the world wide web 
consortium.

http://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/accessibility
Hth,
Tom


On 11/15/2017 8:24 AM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:

Someone I know is constructing a web site for a club. I need to give her a 
couple web sites to get info about putting together a blind friendly site.



Any help?



Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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Help Constructing Blind Friendly Web Site

[Robert Ringwald via Talk]

Someone I know is constructing a web site for a club. I need to give her a 
couple web sites to get info about putting together a blind friendly site.



Any help?



Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet 
Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
916/ 806-9551
Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, 
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain




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RE: Firefox Again

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Tom and all,

Here's a current post by Marco on this:

https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/11/07/firefox-57-nvda-users-perspective/#more-851

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: November 15, 2017 7:44 AM
To: David via Talk 
Cc: Tom Kingston 
Subject: Re: Firefox Again

David,
This is the norm for many programs, especially browsers, when they 
undergo major updates. None of them work out of the box with screen 
readers. The screen reader developers have always had to do serious work 
on their end to make them work. the browser developers only give the 
screen reader developers the information on how to do so. And with 
Firefox they're in the process of a complete rewrite of the program. So 
it will never be accessible with Window-Eyes and only accessible with 
JAWS and NVDA when they make it so.
You're right, Jamie Teh, one of NVDA's lead developers went to work for 
Mozilla.
And Google Chrome is flaky.
Regards,
Tom


On 11/15/2017 4:28 AM, David via Talk wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago, we had the new Firefox breaking the accessibility
> under WinEyes. It is well known, from version 56 and up, Firefox will no
> longer operate with WinEyes.
> 
> 
> Someone kindly pointed us to the business - or ESR - version of firefox,
> at the time being version 52. I followed their advice, and installed it,
> greatly enjoying to have my Firefox back on stage.
> 
> 
> This morning, Firefox notified me there was a security update to my
> installation. In other words, no new version, just a maintenence update.
> Hence, I agreed to have it perform the update.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I take it, you have already guessed what. From now on, my Firefox
> says version 52.5, and is no longer doable with WinEyes. It no longer
> goes into the programs Main Window, but says Document Window. Here you
> can tab around, but the arrow keys produces no real effect, and browse
> mode is reported to be:
> 
>       Not Available.
> 
> Oh, how I hate that message. Smiles.
> 
> 
> OK, if anyone have seen different behavior, or have got to a bit of
> knowledge on how to get Firefox back, we are all ears. To me, it seems
> Firefox simply has crept out of all cooperation with our screen reader.
> Little do I hold it realistic it will ever come back.
> 
> 
> Some place, I seem to recently have read, that someone from the NVDA
> team had gone to Mozilla. It then is strange that we are facing this
> kind of lack of accessibility. It even states, under Help and About,
> that Firefox is meant to make the web accessible to everyone. I guess,
> that means except from old-timers with their WinEyes. Smiles and LOL.
> 
> 
> For some, Chrome might be an alternative. The rest of us, will be back
> to Internet Explorer. Chrome has its benefits, but so far I have had
> issues with it under certain operations.
> 
> 
> Following NVDA discussions lately, even that screen reader seem to have
> high issues with the newest firefox releases. It is being claimed,
> things will get better in version 58, but to what extent that will
> affect WinEyes, I am doubtful. And a recent note I read from VFO, on
> Jaws, seemed to indicate that even Jaws users are experiencing trouble
> with Mozilla lately. It was recommended not to use Firefox with Jaws
> 2018, if I remember correctly. Currently, I am not on that version of
> Jaws, so cannot confirm. Anyone here has had a chance to test newest
> releases of the screen reader and browser together?
> 
> 
> Goodbye to a long-lasting browser, which had numerous and beneficial
> advantages over any other products. Along with the somehow old-fashioned
> way of operating the web with Jaws - which to a degree reminds me of
> where WinEyes was a handful of years ago, the whole Internet browsing
> experience now seem to be a setback. Sure is going to take a bit of
> time, to get back to normal browsing speed.
> 
> 
> Sure, they made it secure? Didn't they. So secure you can't even use it.
> That is another kind of safety. Well, seems not even sighted users are
> comfortable with the newest moves from Mozilla. Probably why they tell
> the next release (58) will have some advancements. Does it remind you of
> what happened to things like Windows8, and the fact they had to go back
> on certain of the news, when releasing next versions? So maybe we should
> not wave totally goodbye to Mozilla all yet. I just wish they would have
> a setting somewhere, which would let the browser run the old way, even
> if they make some security adjustments behind the scene.
> 
> 
> Just wanted to let you know my findings. If anyone have ideas, I for one
> will be listening.
> 
> 
> For your info, I am under Win7 64bit, and the Firefox is reported as
> v52.5ESR 32bit.
> 
> 
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 

Re: Firefox Again

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

David,
This is the norm for many programs, especially browsers, when they 
undergo major updates. None of them work out of the box with screen 
readers. The screen reader developers have always had to do serious work 
on their end to make them work. the browser developers only give the 
screen reader developers the information on how to do so. And with 
Firefox they're in the process of a complete rewrite of the program. So 
it will never be accessible with Window-Eyes and only accessible with 
JAWS and NVDA when they make it so.
You're right, Jamie Teh, one of NVDA's lead developers went to work for 
Mozilla.

And Google Chrome is flaky.
Regards,
Tom


On 11/15/2017 4:28 AM, David via Talk wrote:

A couple of weeks ago, we had the new Firefox breaking the accessibility
under WinEyes. It is well known, from version 56 and up, Firefox will no
longer operate with WinEyes.


Someone kindly pointed us to the business - or ESR - version of firefox,
at the time being version 52. I followed their advice, and installed it,
greatly enjoying to have my Firefox back on stage.


This morning, Firefox notified me there was a security update to my
installation. In other words, no new version, just a maintenence update.
Hence, I agreed to have it perform the update.


Yeah, I take it, you have already guessed what. From now on, my Firefox
says version 52.5, and is no longer doable with WinEyes. It no longer
goes into the programs Main Window, but says Document Window. Here you
can tab around, but the arrow keys produces no real effect, and browse
mode is reported to be:

      Not Available.

Oh, how I hate that message. Smiles.


OK, if anyone have seen different behavior, or have got to a bit of
knowledge on how to get Firefox back, we are all ears. To me, it seems
Firefox simply has crept out of all cooperation with our screen reader.
Little do I hold it realistic it will ever come back.


Some place, I seem to recently have read, that someone from the NVDA
team had gone to Mozilla. It then is strange that we are facing this
kind of lack of accessibility. It even states, under Help and About,
that Firefox is meant to make the web accessible to everyone. I guess,
that means except from old-timers with their WinEyes. Smiles and LOL.


For some, Chrome might be an alternative. The rest of us, will be back
to Internet Explorer. Chrome has its benefits, but so far I have had
issues with it under certain operations.


Following NVDA discussions lately, even that screen reader seem to have
high issues with the newest firefox releases. It is being claimed,
things will get better in version 58, but to what extent that will
affect WinEyes, I am doubtful. And a recent note I read from VFO, on
Jaws, seemed to indicate that even Jaws users are experiencing trouble
with Mozilla lately. It was recommended not to use Firefox with Jaws
2018, if I remember correctly. Currently, I am not on that version of
Jaws, so cannot confirm. Anyone here has had a chance to test newest
releases of the screen reader and browser together?


Goodbye to a long-lasting browser, which had numerous and beneficial
advantages over any other products. Along with the somehow old-fashioned
way of operating the web with Jaws - which to a degree reminds me of
where WinEyes was a handful of years ago, the whole Internet browsing
experience now seem to be a setback. Sure is going to take a bit of
time, to get back to normal browsing speed.


Sure, they made it secure? Didn't they. So secure you can't even use it.
That is another kind of safety. Well, seems not even sighted users are
comfortable with the newest moves from Mozilla. Probably why they tell
the next release (58) will have some advancements. Does it remind you of
what happened to things like Windows8, and the fact they had to go back
on certain of the news, when releasing next versions? So maybe we should
not wave totally goodbye to Mozilla all yet. I just wish they would have
a setting somewhere, which would let the browser run the old way, even
if they make some security adjustments behind the scene.


Just wanted to let you know my findings. If anyone have ideas, I for one
will be listening.


For your info, I am under Win7 64bit, and the Firefox is reported as
v52.5ESR 32bit.


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RE: Firefox Again

[Martin Brown via Talk]

You should give Waterfox a try. Not sure how well it works with Window-Eyes. It 
is a simple browser that uses the same commands as Firefox. Just type in the 
word Waterfox and you should find the free download easy enough.
Hope this helps.
Martin

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+mbrown.brown4=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of David via Talk
Sent: 15 November 2017 09:28
To: WE English Mailinglist 
Cc: David 
Subject: Firefox Again

A couple of weeks ago, we had the new Firefox breaking the accessibility under 
WinEyes. It is well known, from version 56 and up, Firefox will no longer 
operate with WinEyes.


Someone kindly pointed us to the business - or ESR - version of firefox, at the 
time being version 52. I followed their advice, and installed it, greatly 
enjoying to have my Firefox back on stage.


This morning, Firefox notified me there was a security update to my 
installation. In other words, no new version, just a maintenence update. 
Hence, I agreed to have it perform the update.


Yeah, I take it, you have already guessed what. From now on, my Firefox 
says version 52.5, and is no longer doable with WinEyes. It no longer 
goes into the programs Main Window, but says Document Window. Here you 
can tab around, but the arrow keys produces no real effect, and browse 
mode is reported to be:

 Not Available.

Oh, how I hate that message. Smiles.


OK, if anyone have seen different behavior, or have got to a bit of 
knowledge on how to get Firefox back, we are all ears. To me, it seems 
Firefox simply has crept out of all cooperation with our screen reader. 
Little do I hold it realistic it will ever come back.


Some place, I seem to recently have read, that someone from the NVDA 
team had gone to Mozilla. It then is strange that we are facing this 
kind of lack of accessibility. It even states, under Help and About, 
that Firefox is meant to make the web accessible to everyone. I guess, 
that means except from old-timers with their WinEyes. Smiles and LOL.


For some, Chrome might be an alternative. The rest of us, will be back 
to Internet Explorer. Chrome has its benefits, but so far I have had 
issues with it under certain operations.


Following NVDA discussions lately, even that screen reader seem to have 
high issues with the newest firefox releases. It is being claimed, 
things will get better in version 58, but to what extent that will 
affect WinEyes, I am doubtful. And a recent note I read from VFO, on 
Jaws, seemed to indicate that even Jaws users are experiencing trouble 
with Mozilla lately. It was recommended not to use Firefox with Jaws 
2018, if I remember correctly. Currently, I am not on that version of 
Jaws, so cannot confirm. Anyone here has had a chance to test newest 
releases of the screen reader and browser together?


Goodbye to a long-lasting browser, which had numerous and beneficial 
advantages over any other products. Along with the somehow old-fashioned 
way of operating the web with Jaws - which to a degree reminds me of 
where WinEyes was a handful of years ago, the whole Internet browsing 
experience now seem to be a setback. Sure is going to take a bit of 
time, to get back to normal browsing speed.


Sure, they made it secure? Didn't they. So secure you can't even use it. 
That is another kind of safety. Well, seems not even sighted users are 
comfortable with the newest moves from Mozilla. Probably why they tell 
the next release (58) will have some advancements. Does it remind you of 
what happened to things like Windows8, and the fact they had to go back 
on certain of the news, when releasing next versions? So maybe we should 
not wave totally goodbye to Mozilla all yet. I just wish they would have 
a setting somewhere, which would let the browser run the old way, even 
if they make some security adjustments behind the scene.


Just wanted to let you know my findings. If anyone have ideas, I for one 
will be listening.


For your info, I am under Win7 64bit, and the Firefox is reported as 
v52.5ESR 32bit.


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Firefox Again

[David via Talk]

A couple of weeks ago, we had the new Firefox breaking the accessibility 
under WinEyes. It is well known, from version 56 and up, Firefox will no 
longer operate with WinEyes.


Someone kindly pointed us to the business - or ESR - version of firefox, 
at the time being version 52. I followed their advice, and installed it, 
greatly enjoying to have my Firefox back on stage.


This morning, Firefox notified me there was a security update to my 
installation. In other words, no new version, just a maintenence update. 
Hence, I agreed to have it perform the update.


Yeah, I take it, you have already guessed what. From now on, my Firefox 
says version 52.5, and is no longer doable with WinEyes. It no longer 
goes into the programs Main Window, but says Document Window. Here you 
can tab around, but the arrow keys produces no real effect, and browse 
mode is reported to be:

     Not Available.

Oh, how I hate that message. Smiles.


OK, if anyone have seen different behavior, or have got to a bit of 
knowledge on how to get Firefox back, we are all ears. To me, it seems 
Firefox simply has crept out of all cooperation with our screen reader. 
Little do I hold it realistic it will ever come back.


Some place, I seem to recently have read, that someone from the NVDA 
team had gone to Mozilla. It then is strange that we are facing this 
kind of lack of accessibility. It even states, under Help and About, 
that Firefox is meant to make the web accessible to everyone. I guess, 
that means except from old-timers with their WinEyes. Smiles and LOL.


For some, Chrome might be an alternative. The rest of us, will be back 
to Internet Explorer. Chrome has its benefits, but so far I have had 
issues with it under certain operations.


Following NVDA discussions lately, even that screen reader seem to have 
high issues with the newest firefox releases. It is being claimed, 
things will get better in version 58, but to what extent that will 
affect WinEyes, I am doubtful. And a recent note I read from VFO, on 
Jaws, seemed to indicate that even Jaws users are experiencing trouble 
with Mozilla lately. It was recommended not to use Firefox with Jaws 
2018, if I remember correctly. Currently, I am not on that version of 
Jaws, so cannot confirm. Anyone here has had a chance to test newest 
releases of the screen reader and browser together?


Goodbye to a long-lasting browser, which had numerous and beneficial 
advantages over any other products. Along with the somehow old-fashioned 
way of operating the web with Jaws - which to a degree reminds me of 
where WinEyes was a handful of years ago, the whole Internet browsing 
experience now seem to be a setback. Sure is going to take a bit of 
time, to get back to normal browsing speed.


Sure, they made it secure? Didn't they. So secure you can't even use it. 
That is another kind of safety. Well, seems not even sighted users are 
comfortable with the newest moves from Mozilla. Probably why they tell 
the next release (58) will have some advancements. Does it remind you of 
what happened to things like Windows8, and the fact they had to go back 
on certain of the news, when releasing next versions? So maybe we should 
not wave totally goodbye to Mozilla all yet. I just wish they would have 
a setting somewhere, which would let the browser run the old way, even 
if they make some security adjustments behind the scene.


Just wanted to let you know my findings. If anyone have ideas, I for one 
will be listening.


For your info, I am under Win7 64bit, and the Firefox is reported as 
v52.5ESR 32bit.


___
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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
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