RE: introducing AT prime software with window eyes
Hi: Interesting Demo video. Sounds pretty rough but has some nice ideas. I wonder how, if, screen readers handle windows without handles currently. Also, I wonder if he is getting the info from the UIA DOM or someplace else. Anyway, sort of cool that he has managed to get as far as he has. Keep us informed if you use it and how it develops over the rest of the year prior to production. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes
OK, just gave that podcast a listen. Sure sounds interesting. Yet, I strongly disagree in a solution that requires you to be online, even if it is only for launching it. This kind of solution, is so deeply digging into the way people will get access to their screen, that they will become more or less completely depending on it. And then, what do you do the day when your internet connection is down? You cannot even launch the whole product, meaning that you now have to rely on the built-in functionality of your screen reader. Since you have come to depend on the info and operation of the AT Prime, you may have forgotten - or even worse, never really learned - the way to operate the screen reader itself. And, you may have learned to base your computer activity on a software that the screen reader does not necessarily cooperate well with. Now that your internet is down, you don't get a chance to launch this extra piece of software, and are left out in the cold, dark blue; with nowhere to go. You know, it all reminds me of what recently has taken place on the Android platform. First we saw the Eloquence voices hit the Android market, and lately I think it was Ivona. In both cases, the manufacturers decided to go for an online-based solution. Seems they figured we live in a time and world, where internet is something everybody are born with - a kind of an extension to our very body. Sorry, but that is not the everyday of many users. The guy behind the AT Prime, even is talking about developing countries who cannot afford. And then, he forces them to pay expensive, unreliable internet connections, for every time the product is going to be launched on your system. Imagine, in those countries with an unstabil power supply. The computer goes down ten times a day, due to power failure. And every time, you as a blind user have to hope for your internet connection to be up running, put aside a whole budget for online time, simply just to launch your extra piece of screen reading technology. Even in super-modern countries, like the North-Americas and Europe, we know what a connection failure causes for trouble. Do I have to remind people of the many complains GW received every time GWConnect did not work? Why was that? Wasn't it namely due to the lack of connection for an online service that people had come to rely on? And that was for a chatting program, something people could do without. I doubt your employer will accept you telling him, that you cannot read the screen, just because there is some sort of connection-downtime. And it may not even be on your side. It likely could just be on the service providers side. Timezones are different, and when you in the North-Americas get up in the morning, people in Australia have ended their working day. So, the cloud is down, and you cannot get your job done, until tomorrow when the Americas have had their lunch-break and got things sorted out. At least, I am happy that Window-Eyes has not yet turned into a cloud-based screen reader. Too bad, that people who develop good working solutions, block their users from effective use, simply by relying on third-party connections. The technology itself, may be well worth some extra thought. And if the screen reader market would pick up the idea, making the screens even more accessible, that would be great. But please don't come this way around, and offer us cloud-based solutions. Too many experiences have shown that to be far too unreliable. To the one posting the link, thanks for doing so. It was interesting to listen to the podcast, and I welcome the initiative behind the upcoming product. I just have a strong reaction to the cloud-basing, and want people to be aware how that actually could turn what was meant to be a great leap forward into accessibility, into something that would even worsen your daily computer activity. Or, do you really want to put yourself on the spot of all the frustrations, whenever the cloud is down, slow or incorrectly working, and you cannot get your daily activities carried out? David On 3/18/2015 1:00 PM, Josh K via Talk wrote: hey check this out! http://www.vict-consultancy.co.uk/content/atprime.html this could eliminate a lot of scripting! and pass this on to everyone please! this AT prime software is gunna revolutionise how screen readers read stuff to us! and it works with everything from narrator up to window eyes and jaws and everything in between! ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window
RE: introducing AT prime software with window eyes
David, If this is cloud based, well is a complete waste of time for the reasons you mention. Ross. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rossmcg=hotkey.net...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2015 7:50 AM To: Josh K; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes OK, just gave that podcast a listen. Sure sounds interesting. Yet, I strongly disagree in a solution that requires you to be online, even if it is only for launching it. This kind of solution, is so deeply digging into the way people will get access to their screen, that they will become more or less completely depending on it. And then, what do you do the day when your internet connection is down? You cannot even launch the whole product, meaning that you now have to rely on the built-in functionality of your screen reader. Since you have come to depend on the info and operation of the AT Prime, you may have forgotten - or even worse, never really learned - the way to operate the screen reader itself. And, you may have learned to base your computer activity on a software that the screen reader does not necessarily cooperate well with. Now that your internet is down, you don't get a chance to launch this extra piece of software, and are left out in the cold, dark blue; with nowhere to go. You know, it all reminds me of what recently has taken place on the Android platform. First we saw the Eloquence voices hit the Android market, and lately I think it was Ivona. In both cases, the manufacturers decided to go for an online-based solution. Seems they figured we live in a time and world, where internet is something everybody are born with - a kind of an extension to our very body. Sorry, but that is not the everyday of many users. The guy behind the AT Prime, even is talking about developing countries who cannot afford. And then, he forces them to pay expensive, unreliable internet connections, for every time the product is going to be launched on your system. Imagine, in those countries with an unstabil power supply. The computer goes down ten times a day, due to power failure. And every time, you as a blind user have to hope for your internet connection to be up running, put aside a whole budget for online time, simply just to launch your extra piece of screen reading technology. Even in super-modern countries, like the North-Americas and Europe, we know what a connection failure causes for trouble. Do I have to remind people of the many complains GW received every time GWConnect did not work? Why was that? Wasn't it namely due to the lack of connection for an online service that people had come to rely on? And that was for a chatting program, something people could do without. I doubt your employer will accept you telling him, that you cannot read the screen, just because there is some sort of connection-downtime. And it may not even be on your side. It likely could just be on the service providers side. Timezones are different, and when you in the North-Americas get up in the morning, people in Australia have ended their working day. So, the cloud is down, and you cannot get your job done, until tomorrow when the Americas have had their lunch-break and got things sorted out. At least, I am happy that Window-Eyes has not yet turned into a cloud-based screen reader. Too bad, that people who develop good working solutions, block their users from effective use, simply by relying on third-party connections. The technology itself, may be well worth some extra thought. And if the screen reader market would pick up the idea, making the screens even more accessible, that would be great. But please don't come this way around, and offer us cloud-based solutions. Too many experiences have shown that to be far too unreliable. To the one posting the link, thanks for doing so. It was interesting to listen to the podcast, and I welcome the initiative behind the upcoming product. I just have a strong reaction to the cloud-basing, and want people to be aware how that actually could turn what was meant to be a great leap forward into accessibility, into something that would even worsen your daily computer activity. Or, do you really want to put yourself on the spot of all the frustrations, whenever the cloud is down, slow or incorrectly working, and you cannot get your daily activities carried out? David On 3/18/2015 1:00 PM, Josh K via Talk wrote: > hey check this out! > > http://www.vict-consultancy.co.uk/content/atprime.html > > this could eliminate a lot of scripting! > and pass this on to everyone please! this AT prime software is gunna > revolutionise how screen readers read stuff to us! and it works with > everything from narrator up to window eyes and jaws and everything in > between! > ___ Any views or opinions presented in this em
Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes
This @prime, what is it exactly? -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 4:49 PM To: Josh K ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes OK, just gave that podcast a listen. Sure sounds interesting. Yet, I strongly disagree in a solution that requires you to be online, even if it is only for launching it. This kind of solution, is so deeply digging into the way people will get access to their screen, that they will become more or less completely depending on it. And then, what do you do the day when your internet connection is down? You cannot even launch the whole product, meaning that you now have to rely on the built-in functionality of your screen reader. Since you have come to depend on the info and operation of the AT Prime, you may have forgotten - or even worse, never really learned - the way to operate the screen reader itself. And, you may have learned to base your computer activity on a software that the screen reader does not necessarily cooperate well with. Now that your internet is down, you don't get a chance to launch this extra piece of software, and are left out in the cold, dark blue; with nowhere to go. You know, it all reminds me of what recently has taken place on the Android platform. First we saw the Eloquence voices hit the Android market, and lately I think it was Ivona. In both cases, the manufacturers decided to go for an online-based solution. Seems they figured we live in a time and world, where internet is something everybody are born with - a kind of an extension to our very body. Sorry, but that is not the everyday of many users. The guy behind the AT Prime, even is talking about developing countries who cannot afford. And then, he forces them to pay expensive, unreliable internet connections, for every time the product is going to be launched on your system. Imagine, in those countries with an unstabil power supply. The computer goes down ten times a day, due to power failure. And every time, you as a blind user have to hope for your internet connection to be up running, put aside a whole budget for online time, simply just to launch your extra piece of screen reading technology. Even in super-modern countries, like the North-Americas and Europe, we know what a connection failure causes for trouble. Do I have to remind people of the many complains GW received every time GWConnect did not work? Why was that? Wasn't it namely due to the lack of connection for an online service that people had come to rely on? And that was for a chatting program, something people could do without. I doubt your employer will accept you telling him, that you cannot read the screen, just because there is some sort of connection-downtime. And it may not even be on your side. It likely could just be on the service providers side. Timezones are different, and when you in the North-Americas get up in the morning, people in Australia have ended their working day. So, the cloud is down, and you cannot get your job done, until tomorrow when the Americas have had their lunch-break and got things sorted out. At least, I am happy that Window-Eyes has not yet turned into a cloud-based screen reader. Too bad, that people who develop good working solutions, block their users from effective use, simply by relying on third-party connections. The technology itself, may be well worth some extra thought. And if the screen reader market would pick up the idea, making the screens even more accessible, that would be great. But please don't come this way around, and offer us cloud-based solutions. Too many experiences have shown that to be far too unreliable. To the one posting the link, thanks for doing so. It was interesting to listen to the podcast, and I welcome the initiative behind the upcoming product. I just have a strong reaction to the cloud-basing, and want people to be aware how that actually could turn what was meant to be a great leap forward into accessibility, into something that would even worsen your daily computer activity. Or, do you really want to put yourself on the spot of all the frustrations, whenever the cloud is down, slow or incorrectly working, and you cannot get your daily activities carried out? David On 3/18/2015 1:00 PM, Josh K via Talk wrote: hey check this out! http://www.vict-consultancy.co.uk/content/atprime.html this could eliminate a lot of scripting! and pass this on to everyone please! this AT prime software is gunna revolutionise how screen readers read stuff to us! and it works with everything from narrator up to window eyes and jaws and everything in between! ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dgbowles%40msn.com. F
Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes
It's a helper application that allows people to have access to controls that wouldn't otherwise be accessible. Even if it's a non-standard control, if there's any help text or a tooltip, AT prime can grab it and make the control more meaningful to the user. Also, if the help text isn't something meaningful, it's possible to create text labels for controls so that they're more meaningful for folks. It's cloud-based, so even if you're on a computer that isn't yours, you can still have access to all your settings and everything, no matter where you are in the world. I'm still not sure how it handles web pages, such as non-standard flash controls and other things like that, but I'm certain that we'll know more soon. I'm going to reserve judging it until i've actually had a play with it, to see what it can do. from the demo I heard though, it's pretty darn impressive. On 3/18/2015 8:16 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote: This @prime, what is it exactly? -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 4:49 PM To: Josh K ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes OK, just gave that podcast a listen. Sure sounds interesting. Yet, I strongly disagree in a solution that requires you to be online, even if it is only for launching it. This kind of solution, is so deeply digging into the way people will get access to their screen, that they will become more or less completely depending on it. And then, what do you do the day when your internet connection is down? You cannot even launch the whole product, meaning that you now have to rely on the built-in functionality of your screen reader. Since you have come to depend on the info and operation of the AT Prime, you may have forgotten - or even worse, never really learned - the way to operate the screen reader itself. And, you may have learned to base your computer activity on a software that the screen reader does not necessarily cooperate well with. Now that your internet is down, you don't get a chance to launch this extra piece of software, and are left out in the cold, dark blue; with nowhere to go. You know, it all reminds me of what recently has taken place on the Android platform. First we saw the Eloquence voices hit the Android market, and lately I think it was Ivona. In both cases, the manufacturers decided to go for an online-based solution. Seems they figured we live in a time and world, where internet is something everybody are born with - a kind of an extension to our very body. Sorry, but that is not the everyday of many users. The guy behind the AT Prime, even is talking about developing countries who cannot afford. And then, he forces them to pay expensive, unreliable internet connections, for every time the product is going to be launched on your system. Imagine, in those countries with an unstabil power supply. The computer goes down ten times a day, due to power failure. And every time, you as a blind user have to hope for your internet connection to be up running, put aside a whole budget for online time, simply just to launch your extra piece of screen reading technology. Even in super-modern countries, like the North-Americas and Europe, we know what a connection failure causes for trouble. Do I have to remind people of the many complains GW received every time GWConnect did not work? Why was that? Wasn't it namely due to the lack of connection for an online service that people had come to rely on? And that was for a chatting program, something people could do without. I doubt your employer will accept you telling him, that you cannot read the screen, just because there is some sort of connection-downtime. And it may not even be on your side. It likely could just be on the service providers side. Timezones are different, and when you in the North-Americas get up in the morning, people in Australia have ended their working day. So, the cloud is down, and you cannot get your job done, until tomorrow when the Americas have had their lunch-break and got things sorted out. At least, I am happy that Window-Eyes has not yet turned into a cloud-based screen reader. Too bad, that people who develop good working solutions, block their users from effective use, simply by relying on third-party connections. The technology itself, may be well worth some extra thought. And if the screen reader market would pick up the idea, making the screens even more accessible, that would be great. But please don't come this way around, and offer us cloud-based solutions. Too many experiences have shown that to be far too unreliable. To the one posting the link, thanks for doing so. It was interesting to listen to the podcast, and I welcome the initiative behind the upcoming product. I just have a strong reaction to the cloud-basing, and want people to be aware
RE: introducing AT prime software with window eyes
Well, it would be good if they also had a paid version, so you could buy it and install it on your computer, so you're not bothered if the net is working or not, on that day. Ross. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rossmcg=hotkey.net...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Skarstad via Talk Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2015 11:40 AM To: Darrell Bowles; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes It's a helper application that allows people to have access to controls that wouldn't otherwise be accessible. Even if it's a non-standard control, if there's any help text or a tooltip, AT prime can grab it and make the control more meaningful to the user. Also, if the help text isn't something meaningful, it's possible to create text labels for controls so that they're more meaningful for folks. It's cloud-based, so even if you're on a computer that isn't yours, you can still have access to all your settings and everything, no matter where you are in the world. I'm still not sure how it handles web pages, such as non-standard flash controls and other things like that, but I'm certain that we'll know more soon. I'm going to reserve judging it until i've actually had a play with it, to see what it can do. from the demo I heard though, it's pretty darn impressive. On 3/18/2015 8:16 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote: > This @prime, what is it exactly? > > > -Original Message- From: David via Talk > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 4:49 PM > To: Josh K ; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes > > OK, just gave that podcast a listen. Sure sounds interesting. > > Yet, I strongly disagree in a solution that requires you to be online, > even if it is only for launching it. This kind of solution, is so > deeply digging into the way people will get access to their screen, > that they will become more or less completely depending on it. And > then, what do you do the day when your internet connection is down? > You cannot even launch the whole product, meaning that you now have to > rely on the built-in functionality of your screen reader. Since you > have come to depend on the info and operation of the AT Prime, you may > have forgotten > - or even worse, never really learned - the way to operate the screen > reader itself. And, you may have learned to base your computer > activity on a software that the screen reader does not necessarily > cooperate well with. Now that your internet is down, you don't get a > chance to launch this extra piece of software, and are left out in the > cold, dark blue; with nowhere to go. > > You know, it all reminds me of what recently has taken place on the > Android platform. First we saw the Eloquence voices hit the Android > market, and lately I think it was Ivona. In both cases, the > manufacturers decided to go for an online-based solution. Seems they > figured we live in a time and world, where internet is something > everybody are born with - a kind of an extension to our very body. > Sorry, but that is not the everyday of many users. The guy behind the > AT Prime, even is talking about developing countries who cannot > afford. And then, he forces them to pay expensive, unreliable internet > connections, for every time the product is going to be launched on your system. > Imagine, in those countries with an unstabil power supply. The > computer goes down ten times a day, due to power failure. And every > time, you as a blind user have to hope for your internet connection to > be up running, put aside a whole budget for online time, simply just > to launch your extra piece of screen reading technology. > > Even in super-modern countries, like the North-Americas and Europe, we > know what a connection failure causes for trouble. Do I have to remind > people of the many complains GW received every time GWConnect did not > work? Why was that? Wasn't it namely due to the lack of connection for > an online service that people had come to rely on? And that was for a > chatting program, something people could do without. I doubt your > employer will accept you telling him, that you cannot read the screen, > just because there is some sort of connection-downtime. And it may not > even be on your side. It likely could just be on the service providers > side. Timezones are different, and when you in the North-Americas get > up in the morning, people in Australia have ended their working day. > So, the cloud is down, and you cannot get your job done, until > tomorrow when the Americas have had their lunch-break and got things sorted out. > > At least,
RE: introducing AT prime software with window eyes
Hi Guys: It is an interesting app. I am looking forward to later this year to see how Paul fleshes out the project. My only thought is that if he can do this stuff, likely using UIA, why cant the screen reader companies do it? And, in fact, once he has a product on the market they will likely setup similar features. In any case it is a nice project and he has evidently put some time into it. Showing up at Csun or whatever with a demo and creating a audio video is another nice touch showing he is serious about putting something out. But lets wait to see how he sets the project up for production. Right now he is talking online, likely easier to manage and control any pricing he might, or not, require but as some have noted it would be a good app as a stand-alone download as well. He has put himself out there in the public eye so lets see how well he builds his product and his company. Good luck to all who develop for others! Rick USA -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Skarstad via Talk Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 8:40 PM To: Darrell Bowles; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes It's a helper application that allows people to have access to controls that wouldn't otherwise be accessible. Even if it's a non-standard control, if there's any help text or a tooltip, AT prime can grab it and make the control more meaningful to the user. Also, if the help text isn't something meaningful, it's possible to create text labels for controls so that they're more meaningful for folks. It's cloud-based, so even if you're on a computer that isn't yours, you can still have access to all your settings and everything, no matter where you are in the world. I'm still not sure how it handles web pages, such as non-standard flash controls and other things like that, but I'm certain that we'll know more soon. I'm going to reserve judging it until i've actually had a play with it, to see what it can do. from the demo I heard though, it's pretty darn impressive. On 3/18/2015 8:16 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote: > This @prime, what is it exactly? > > > -Original Message- From: David via Talk > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 4:49 PM > To: Josh K ; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: introducing AT prime software with window eyes > > OK, just gave that podcast a listen. Sure sounds interesting. > > Yet, I strongly disagree in a solution that requires you to be online, > even if it is only for launching it. This kind of solution, is so deeply > digging into the way people will get access to their screen, that they > will become more or less completely depending on it. And then, what do > you do the day when your internet connection is down? You cannot even > launch the whole product, meaning that you now have to rely on the > built-in functionality of your screen reader. Since you have come to > depend on the info and operation of the AT Prime, you may have forgotten > - or even worse, never really learned - the way to operate the screen > reader itself. And, you may have learned to base your computer activity > on a software that the screen reader does not necessarily cooperate well > with. Now that your internet is down, you don't get a chance to launch > this extra piece of software, and are left out in the cold, dark blue; > with nowhere to go. > > You know, it all reminds me of what recently has taken place on the > Android platform. First we saw the Eloquence voices hit the Android > market, and lately I think it was Ivona. In both cases, the > manufacturers decided to go for an online-based solution. Seems they > figured we live in a time and world, where internet is something > everybody are born with - a kind of an extension to our very body. > Sorry, but that is not the everyday of many users. The guy behind the AT > Prime, even is talking about developing countries who cannot afford. And > then, he forces them to pay expensive, unreliable internet connections, > for every time the product is going to be launched on your system. > Imagine, in those countries with an unstabil power supply. The computer > goes down ten times a day, due to power failure. And every time, you as > a blind user have to hope for your internet connection to be up running, > put aside a whole budget for online time, simply just to launch your > extra piece of screen reading technology. > > Even in super-modern countries, like the North-Americas and Europe, we > know what a connection failure causes for trouble. Do I have to remind > people of the many complains GW received every time GWConnect did not > work? Why was that? Wasn't it namely due to th
