Re: [OSM-talk] Disable Potlatch finally.
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Gert Gremmen wrote: > Patch #4 > ... Patch #5 If the user merges two ways which has different tagging and of which he is not the original editor, ask him "Are you sure ?" If he does it again, display a popup with "This is your second warning !" And if he does it a third time, then auto subscribe him to this list ! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Pieren wrote: > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Elena of Valhalla > wrote: >> ok, not that likely, but I wouldn't use a tag with a different meaning >> when we can just add another specific one; > > Is that really so different ? It is a renderer issue. Mapnik decides > to not draw one of the names in case of collision. But another > renderer could make it differently, drawing a name above the other, or > using smaller font, etc... > Of course, layer has not to be used in a general context but only in > something like this: > if (A.place "is not equal to" B.place) >select A or B > else >if (A.admin_level "is not equal to" B.admin_level >select A or B >else >//A.admin_level = B.admin_level >select highest A or B layer The layer tag is for features which are physically vertically separated. If you have two cities, one of which is physically built above the other, then the layer tag would be appropriate to show which one is on top. Other than that, it's simply incorrect. Thanks, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:29:29PM +, Andy Allan wrote: > be running, which is in the future and the timetable changed this > week[1]. […] > [1] hypothetically, but actually did quite recently for the UK rail > network, which is a useful illustration. If you’re lucky they’ll give you advanced notice. ☺ So, what we really would like is public access to live feeds of raw data. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Andy Allan > The layer tag is for features which are physically vertically separated. Agree with "features vertically separated". Just sad that you decide to limit the usage to physical objects... Here we talk about tagging nodes separated by long distance. Anyway, we can call it "name_level", "manik_name_layer", "cultural_level" or wathever you like, we just need a solution. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Freemap is dead, long live OpenFootMap (and a hosting question)
Hello everyone, With an increasing interest in renderers for walking and hiking, and wanting to keep to the spirit of opencyclemap.org, openpistemap.org and opensantamap.org, I plan to re-launch Freemap as OpenFootMap, a name which will also hopefully make the link with OSM much more explicit. Consequently I have registered openfootmap.org, which I also want to try and give a more international feel than Freemap (though it will likely be restricted to England in the first instance, as I don't have access to a huge server) Nonetheless I'd like to make the site the first port of call for collecting ideas for "OSM for walkers", and invite suggestions for styling, map features to show, icons, additional features, and so on. I'd also like to get a bit of advice on hosting. Currently I am using a Bytemark VM for Freemap, but I'm wondering whether something like the Business package from uk2.net would give more server power, at the expense of root access. Because client processing power is very much less expensive, financially, than the server end, I plan to make openfootmap.org much more lightweight on the server side than Freemap, by doing rendering at home, using the Mapnik OSM plugin, and simply serve static tiles from the server, much like ti...@home on the osmarender side. Hopefully if there is interest, individual contributors could sign up to a ti...@home like scheme and render their area on their own home machines. Consequently all I really need on the server side is basic PHP and MySQL provision and an SSH shell. So would people recommend sticking with bytemark or transferring to something like uk2? Thanks, Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap
Nice work Grommit Cheers Andy >-Original Message- >From: Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] >Sent: 19 December 2008 12:30 AM >To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) >Cc: 'Tim Waters (chippy)'; 'Talk Openstreetmap' >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap > >I have bought opensantamap.org. > >Shaun > >On 18 Dec 2008, at 18:18, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: > >> I hope these flies. We are only a style sheet away from making >> topical maps. >> >> Cheers >> >> Andy >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- >>> boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tim Waters (chippy) >>> Sent: 18 December 2008 4:38 PM >>> To: Talk Openstreetmap >>> Subject: [OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap >>> >>> One of the main strengths of OpenStreetMap is that we have access to >>> the raw data, and one of the best ways we can illustrate this power, >>> whilst also reinforcing the idea that the map is just a rendering of >>> the data, is to create custom renders. >>> >>> Great examples of these are the Mapnik and ti...@home maps, >>> Cloudmade's mobile tiles, and of course the award winning >>> OpenCycleMap. >>> >>> And now, as there has been some talk about a fun seasonal render, >>> OpenSantaMap, I have started a wiki page for us to add our thoughts. >>> >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSantaMap >>> >>> Some ideas to get the (snow)ball rolling: >>> >>> Snowflake background. >>> Using the Unicode snowman character ? . >>> Changing colours to more gaudy red/green scheme. >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: >>> 17/12/2008 >>> 7:21 PM >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1857 - Release Date: 19/12/2008 >10:09 AM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
>You can't crowdsource a timetable. You can't crowdsource the future >without objective evidence. >You can, however, crowdsource what has happened in the past, and use >it to make list of when the trains usually used to run. But I have >absolutely no interest in an application that says "trains usually ran >on a Sunday at 10.35am up until last weekend" because I actually want >to go *this* Sunday and I want to know when the trains are *going* to >be running, which is in the future and the timetable changed this >week[1]. >So as far as I'm concerned, the only really useful source of >timetables is whoever operates the service. Whilst there may be copyright issues in doing this in practice, there is in theory a good reason for having an independent source of timetable data: you could offer web API functionality that the actual rail/bus companies are not offering, which aids the integration of the data into other sites. Also it allows the development of independent train/bus journey planners which the individual companies may not wish to develop themselves. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] find corners of exported maps
Olav Kvittem wrote: > Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote: > >> have a look at the debugHelper.pl in ti...@home. it will give you the >> latlon center of the tile bbox and the latlon of the center of the tile. >> > > Thanks, but I still don't get it and need some more hints. > This is about finding the corners of a tile which is a discrete unit > with discrete center points. > The tahproject.pm computes the mercator tile height the way I do and > Tileset.pm also uses 256 pixel tile image size. > I am guessing that the osmarender export function deliver tile density > for any centerpoint, so I probably need to reach to the guy > producing the export code or looking at the code itself to know how to > compute corner coordinates for this : any center, any size "tile". > > The exporter takes the geodetic center as a parameter, but I > expect it to deliver a map evenly around the center of the projection. > If not I don't see how I can find the corners. > Problem solved, I had of course also made a programming error .. However the osmarender export function is hereby confirmed to be so that the geodetic center asked for is at the center of the projection and consequently of the image and the image mercator density is according to the given tile level, using transformations indicated by the code that I was pointed to. So then you can see the UNINETT and NORDUnet network load map on OSM : https://drift.uninett.no/kartg/last-osm/osm/europe/geo/nuh//maks/ A big thank you to all OSM people !-) I plan to use the osm export function to collect about 70 map images each european night with 1s interval between each and hope that's acceptable. regards Olav > chuss > Olav > > >> Olav Kvittem schrieb: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I wonder how I compute the coordinates of the corners of the images >>> received from the web export function >>> for an osmarender image. I specify geodetic center position(degrees), >>> zoom level and image size and get at nice map image. >>> The projection is of cource Mercator and I can linearly map mercator >>> coordinates onto the image. >>> But how do I know the coordinates of the corners of the returned image ? >>> >>> The url I use is : >>> http://server.tah.openstreetmap.org/MapOf/index.php?long=10.17456&lat=56.01566&z=6&w=500&h=592&format=png' >>> >>> >>> >>> The tile-size for each level is 256x256 so given the zoom-level I could >>> compute the pixel density from the >>> world map size in mercator projection. >>> That works for east direction which is linear, but for the northern >>> direction the projection is nonlinear and >>> I am not sure if the geodetic center that I specify is at the center of >>> the returned image or not. >>> >> have a look at the debugHelper.pl in ti...@home. it will give you the >> latlon center of the tile bbox and the latlon of the center of the tile. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Inspector Christmas Update
Since the launch of the OSM Inspector (http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/) at the end of October many people have used it to improve OSM data. In time for christmas we have some presents for OSM Inspector users, including support for IE and Safari, new views, and access to the data via WMS and WFS. For details see the blog posting at http://blog.geofabrik.de/?p=18 Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License clarification question
There's a license FAQ [1] which I think should answer your question. whether your POI data is derived work would depend on whether you use OSM data to place those POIs. I presume you have them already in some database however and just wish to use OSM as a backdrop, in which case that would be considered a separate dataset. Any modifications to the OSM data itself however would need to be published as the CC-BY-SA dictates. 1. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Common_licence_interpretations ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Is anyone making public transport routing mapsbasedon OpenStreetMap data?
Peter Miller wrote: > Agreed. And I notice that Mikel Maron is involved in the > OpenTransitData project you refer to that is trying to free up this > data. http://opentransitdata.org A simple start, cataloging the degree of openness of their transit data .. from not available at all, to in google transit, to data in the commons. The community of developer/activists can use this to approach transit agencies and lobby for more open release of schedules. http://opentransitdata.org/wiki/index.php?title=Public_Transit_Openness_Index Wiki was the easiest way to start. A simple web app would probably capture this more effectively! Building on GTFS Data Exchange makes sense, though I haven't reached out to the developers there yet. Comments and help welcome! -Mikel___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Nick Whitelegg wrote: >>You can't crowdsource a timetable. You can't crowdsource the future >>without objective evidence. > >>You can, however, crowdsource what has happened in the past, and use >>it to make list of when the trains usually used to run. But I have >>absolutely no interest in an application that says "trains usually ran >>on a Sunday at 10.35am up until last weekend" because I actually want >>to go *this* Sunday and I want to know when the trains are *going* to >>be running, which is in the future and the timetable changed this >>week[1]. > >>So as far as I'm concerned, the only really useful source of >>timetables is whoever operates the service. > > Whilst there may be copyright issues in doing this in practice, there is > in theory a good reason for having an independent source of timetable > data: you could offer web API functionality that the actual rail/bus > companies are not offering, which aids the integration of the data into > other sites. Also it allows the development of independent train/bus > journey planners which the individual companies may not wish to develop > themselves. I'm not arguing that the timetable information shouldn't be made freely available, since I've got every confidence in the power of the crowds to come up with useful and novel things. I'm just saying that in the case of timetables, unlike the geodata that we're familiar with in OSM, I don't think it's crowd-sourceable. Unless we send people one at a time to the ticket office and say "what trains will leave between 10am and 11am this Sunday", note it in a PDA and re-join the back of the queue... Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OSM Mapper ready for 0.6? (was Re: DisablePotlatch finally)
Hi, On 18 Dec 2008, at 09:33, D Tucny wrote: 2008/12/18 Shaun McDonald On 18 Dec 2008, at 08:56, maning sambale wrote: > What if someone edited a few ways? Does it invalidate my whole > changeset/edit session? Or just the modified node/way/relation? It will invalidate just the modified node/way/relation. With JOSM in 0.6 there will be diff uploads, which means that all the changes are sent at one time. This does mean that the whole change will be rejected, if one node has been modified before you have uploaded. As the upload is done as a single request, less bandwidth hence time will be required. I don't know what the speedup is. The speedup is likely to depend on the network connection. If the API specifies which particular objects in the change were a problem, it would be good if JOSM gave the option of downloading just those objects and performing conflict resolution rather than just failing... Not got a clue how hard that would be to implement though... It is returned as a textual message to the user, however it isn't in a machine readable format. http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/sites/rails_port_branches/api06/lib/osm.rb#L109 I'm thinking that adding some some special headers would do the trick. The speedup will be pretty sizable for high latency links such as many of those in asia when transfering more than a few modification... I'd guess Maning being on a dialup link in asia will probably see a pretty decent speed up as compression should take care of most of the size of the change and being sent in one go should remove most of the time taken in establishing new connections... Excellent to hear. There is of course some extra processing time on the server side. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming bridges (and roads over them)
"Aun Johnsen" writes: >> LeedsTracker writes: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I usually name bridges with name=x but this often interrupts a highway's >>> name. >>> >>> It would make sense to me to have bridge:name=x since we have already >>> have bridge=yes >> >> How about using a relation for the bridge? This would also be >> desirable because there are bridges with multiple carriageways on >> them. >> >> Matthias >> >> > What about naming the road with a relation and use the bridge's name in > the name tag? Works both ways. Or even better: Have a relation for both. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] JOSM WMS--cool!
I love the new tile-based WMS stuff that I picked up with the latest JOSM. Top notch! -Beej ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
An anonymous user has being changing all bridges without layer tags to layer=1 in my area. I suspect this is a bot. Because the continuity is better without changing layer along a road, for streams I often set the stream to layer=-1, and leave the layer alone and that is the case in many of these changes. It looks like the change has been made blindly with no real reference to what the bridge is doing. Humph. I'm going to change a lot of them back, but if this procedure is run repeatedly this will be an edit war where I'm competing with an anonymous robot. (If this is your work - please stop it.) David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] License clarification question
On 19 Dec 2008, at 08:08, Sebastian Kurfürst wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I am working for a small startup company which wants to provide > geographical information for tourism areas. We intend to produce an > online map-widget like you have at your website, and want to add a > custom overlay of touristically relevant POIs (Hotels, Guest houses, > Restaurants, ...). If you click onto one of these overlay icons, there > will be a popup with additional information, photos, prices, opening > hours, ... > The POI information is stored separately (in a separate Database > table) from the OSM-based way / polygon data. Sounds a bit like how wikitravel (http://wikitravel.org/en/Main_Page) are using OSM. I understand that they cross-reference the locations of features on OSM with additional information on wikitravel. > > > We are currently evaluating the use of OpenStreetMap data as a basis > (for roads, hiking trails, ...) > > Now my questions: > - Do I get it right that the current license is CC-by-SA 2.0? And you > want to switch to the new Open Data License? Is there any timeframe > when this switch will be done? > Yes we do. According to the draft minutes of the last OpenStreetMap Foundation board meeting (http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcs6phhk_35dkhtq2dj ) it will be published in 6 days time (ie 'by Xmas')! However I don't believe it is ready but unfortunately we are starved on information about progress on the licence on this list for some reason which is regrettable. > - As I understood it, we'll have to publish all of our modifications / > additions on the underlying OpenStreetmap Data, f.e. as JOSM XML file. > We are happy that this information can flow back to the OpenStreetMap > project :-) > Is this correct as I see it? good > > > - However, the POI information (where the POI is located, and the > additional meta-data which is displayed in some kind of "popup > bubble") does not have to be published under the same CC-by-SA license > - is this correct? That is the intention. Using the CCBYSA licence I believe this should be ok. The two works are distinct and your should updated OSM for the map features but do not need to release your other data as this is a 'collective work'. I haven't taken legal advice on this point because we are meant to be dropping the licence soon. With the new licence I believe this will also be a possible however I have not been able to see any recent drafts of the licence so can't give any more reassurance.. See the proposed Use Cases for the new licence which I see as the 'requirements' document for the new licence and have it clear that this should be allowed. (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Brief_for_proposed_OSM_licence ). > > If the meta-data needs to be published under the CC-by-SA license as > well, that would be a major issue for our company - that's why some > clarifications would be really nice. > Me too, hence my interest in this frustrating process! > Thanks a lot for your help, > you OpenStreetMap guys rock, > Sebastian > Sorry for the semi-rant. I am, however, still a keen supporter of this fantastic project and I do think we are actually getting pretty close to having a sound new licence. Btw, my company is keen on building a community of commercial companies with an interest in OSM to represent our shared interests so do lets keep in touch. Regards, Peter Miller ITO World Ltd www.itoworld.com > > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-t...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
On 19/12/2008 20:04, Nic Roets wrote: > Perhaps you can give the list an example (data browser URL) ? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27827017/history for example. It's not that important, but if the end of the bridge is close to a junction it can be a bit messy sometimes. But the script is making the invalid assumption that all bridges without layer tags should have layer=1. In all the cases I've seen it has been largely harmless but unnecessary and has changed the intent (though I can imagine an obscure case of a set of tiered bridges where it could actually make it wrong if someone has relied on the default being layer=0, though that would have been unwise). I've changed some of them that I did originally to be explicitly layer=0 so if this script is looking for bridges with missing layer tags it won't change them again. David > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:34 PM, David Earl > wrote: >> An anonymous user has being changing all bridges without layer tags to >> layer=1 in my area. I suspect this is a bot. >> >> Because the continuity is better without changing layer along a road, >> for streams I often set the stream to layer=-1, and leave the layer >> alone and that is the case in many of these changes. >> >> It looks like the change has been made blindly with no real reference to >> what the bridge is doing. >> >> Humph. I'm going to change a lot of them back, but if this procedure is >> run repeatedly this will be an edit war where I'm competing with an >> anonymous robot. >> >> (If this is your work - please stop it.) >> >> David >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
Hi, David Earl wrote: > An anonymous user has being changing all bridges without layer tags to > layer=1 in my area. I suspect this is a bot. Stop anonymous editing now! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedonOpenStreetMap data?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 17:28, Joe Hughes wrote: > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Hugh Barnes > wrote: >> I can sympathise with your pragmatism, and was starting realise that >> must be what's behind your choice. Sad but true. I still think while >> you can accept CSV, you should want to cast into XML pretty soon to >> make it nice to work with. Ultimately, it's possibly not that >> important. > > [snip] > > Additionally, Nick Knowles and our own Peter Miller have done some > interesting work attempting to reconcile the implicit GTFS data model > with TransModel--Peter, is your latest document publicly available > online somewhere? Devising an XML schema that allowed lossless > conversion to and from GTFS would be an interesting project. > We have now uploaded the paper Joe refers and also a powerpoint presentation that summarises the key points for a standards audience. It was prepared for discussion in the CEN and ISO standards community - the whole issue of data standards and the interchange of PT data is being discussed at ISO at present, and there is a parallel proposal within CEN for a new European XML timetable exchange schema to replace a number of national and proprietary standards. http://www.transmodel.org.uk/index.htm Regards, Peter > Joe > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] GeoBase / CanVec data as an OpenLayer
And my latest rant: What if we can have an openlayer 'free government data' shown as an option on osm? So it can be used as a reference on highly osm mapped areas? (for less mapped areas osm inspector & grabbing only specifacs features area (gml2osm) from the source. (The openlayer could contain the lates map update) cheers, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails -- Forwarded message -- From: Sam Vekemans Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:33:35 -0800 Subject: Fwd: GeoBase / CanVec data as an OpenLayer To: talk...@openstreetmap.org Oh ya, the talk-ca list needs to keep upto date :)If anyone on the list knows more about openlayers, it might help. Sam -- Forwarded message -- From: Sam Vekemans Date: Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:32 PM Subject: GeoBase / CanVec data as an OpenLayer To: d...@openlayers.org, Jason Reid Hi everyone,I am working on the OpenStreetMap wiki page of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importing_Government_Data so to better understand this GeoBase Import project, Hopefully it will provide a good summery. Anyway, i am wondering if it's possible(i think it is) to make an OpenLayer where it shows everything that the GeoBase/CanVec site has to offer, so it shows up as a layer, which can be used for reference when working on openstreetmap? .. as well as for other projects that use openlayers that would have interest in it. http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/wms/index.html and Canvec data http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/geogratis/en/collection/metadata.do;jsessionid=23FF8D41C6D934C0C63EE04578ED5D0B?id=28954 Wondering how hard this would be to create? Thanks, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Stop anonymous editing now! > +1 Is it too late to ban anonymous edits in API 0.6? Cheers, Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
Hi, Chris Hill wrote: > Is it too late to ban anonymous edits in API 0.6? It is not something that changes the API (it requires a code change but the interface remains unchanged) so it can be done any time - either now, or when API 0.6 is introduced, or any time after that. It is predominantly a matter of communication; we need no tell the poor people why they cannot make changes and how to remedy that. And of course it is a matter of building consensus. Last time we discussed the issue, an (IMHO) overwhelming majority were in favour of banning anonymous edits but among those wo said let's keep the practice was the founder of the project & chairman of OSMF so the discussion fizzled somewhat ;-) His argument was that there may be places where you face legal trouble for mapping and we need to allow these people to remain unidentifiable. - I still think that anyone mapping in such a place would be better off using a series of throwaway accounts anyway, whether we make all edits public or not. Nobody has said we need to publish the user's identity, just the screen name... Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Freemap is dead, long live OpenFootMap (and a hosting question)
2008/12/19 Nick Whitelegg : > Hopefully if there is interest, individual contributors could sign up to a > ti...@home like scheme and render their area on their own home machines. > Consequently all I really need on the server side is basic PHP and MySQL > provision and an SSH shell. So would people recommend sticking with > bytemark or transferring to something like uk2? > > Thanks, > Nick This would be a big mistake, from what I've heard of t...@h, it has too many issues to be maintainable on a hosted serving package. -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Buildings and roads
Nathan Mixter writes: > A "major road" doesn't have to be wide by default. I hereby invite you > to visit Guadarrama, where a trunk road (the "N-VI") has only two > lanes, and buildings are just one meter away from the asphalt. > > Yes, I agree that the rendering is messed up at low zoom levels (see > Naga City in the Phillipines), but at higher zoom levels, I see no > other easy solution. > > (In a perfect world, a road would be not a line, but a polygon, so the > width and area could be perfectly known). You could tag the roads with their width and renderers could render them accordingly - if they wanted to. This is actually only sensible for the highest zoom levels. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
On 19 Dec 2008, at 21:45, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > Chris Hill wrote: >> Is it too late to ban anonymous edits in API 0.6? [snip] > > And of course it is a matter of building consensus. Last time we > discussed the issue, an (IMHO) overwhelming majority were in favour of > banning anonymous edits but among those wo said let's keep the > practice > was the founder of the project & chairman of OSMF so the discussion > fizzled somewhat ;-) > I was not aware that the change had not gone through. I though anonymous edits were banned. already So all those edits by on OSM Mapper are a random selection of unidentified contributors? I have just checked - yesterday has fiddled with layering in Suffolk (layer=-1 etc), altered the coastline up near Great Yarmouth and fiddled a bit with the A12. A new way with the message 'FIXME previously unwayed segment' has been entered! Can I have a button to nuke all of that session please? A total of 321 ways have had there last edits made by in Suffolk/East Cambs, South Norfolk North Esses area. Also, I wonder how we contact them to see if they agree to the new licence - Do we have to strip it out or what - That is a good question for the legal-questions wiki page (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Open_Issues ) - If they don't what happens to content derived from their work? > His argument was that there may be places where you face legal trouble > for mapping and we need to allow these people to remain > unidentifiable. > - I still think that anyone mapping in such a place would be better > off > using a series of throwaway accounts anyway, whether we make all edits > public or not. Nobody has said we need to publish the user's identity, > just the screen name... > There are two questions here: 1) Was it the right answer? We do actually have the IP address somewhere on the servers so the edit so not really anonymous. Also the username does not need to say a lot about the person. Can we not put a warning splash screen up if someone presses 'edit' in a dodgy part of the world that warns them of the risk and advised them to use an untraceable username or take notes and do the edit when the leave the country or just not bother! What about the ability of regimes to monitor IP addresses doing editing on OSM from their national firewalls? Surely a splash-screen would provide more safety that what we have and why do we need anonymous edits in Germany and the UK. 2) Was the decision made is a good way? A decision like this should probably be made with a wiki page, outlining the issue, where people can make their positions known and we then decide by voting. I think the time of one person making such decisions for the community is over and just isn't going to work with a project of this scale (if that is what happened in this case). Can someone dig up the thread on talk so we can see how the decision was reached? If decisions are made by decree (if this one was) then when does one review them and change them? All good stuff and signs of a great project :) Regards, Peter > Bye > Frederik > > -- > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" > E008°23'33" > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Freemap is dead, long live OpenFootMap (and a hosting question)
Nick Whitelegg writes: > I'd also like to get a bit of advice on hosting. Currently I am using a > Bytemark VM for Freemap, but I'm wondering whether something like the > Business package from uk2.net would give more server power, at the expense > of root access. Because client processing power is very much less > expensive, financially, than the server end, I plan to make > openfootmap.org much more lightweight on the server side than Freemap, by > doing rendering at home, using the Mapnik OSM plugin, and simply serve > static tiles from the server, much like ti...@home on the osmarender side. Maybe we could consider to integrate other map layers into t...@h. All the render job handling could be done by the t...@h server and either the clients upload each tileset to a server as specified in the config or tah hands the tilesets over to the other tile servers. The latter would probably be better if bandwidth is not an issue. This would have a couple of advantages: - You could utilize an established render network. - Clients render all layers from the same data, there would be no additional load for API servers - Most of the infrastructure is there, you just need to set up a simplified (without the request handling) tile server Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
Hi, Peter Miller wrote: > I was not aware that the change had not gone through. I though anonymous > edits were banned. already They are, client-side, in Potlatch. With any other editor, or talking directly to the API, you can still make anonymous edits. > So all those edits by on OSM Mapper > are a random selection of unidentified contributors? Yes. All you know about them is that they haven't used Potlatch in the last few months because then they'd have had to make their edits public. > Also, I wonder how we contact them to see if they agree to the new > licence The information on who they are (i.e. what screen name they have and perhaps an e-mail address) is in the database, anyone with database admin privileges *can* contact them and it has happened in one or two grave cases in the past that TomH (reluctantly) played messenger between the community and the mapper. > 1) Was it the right answer? We do actually have the IP address somewhere > on the servers so the edit so not really anonymous. As said, we also have the name; if the Chinese government hacks our servers and someone was so naive to rely on our not giving out his name for his privacy then he's in jail. > 2) Was the decision made is a good way? We're not talking a decision, we're talking a non-decision. Nobody has decided that action should not be taken; but nobody has decided that action should be taken either, so that leaves is with the status quo. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Using GeoBase images for openlayers for OpenStreetMap and OpenAerialMap
Hi, OpenAerialMap started as a project about a year ago, when I was working > with some aerial data provided by a number of sources. Instead of putting > together all of the different sources, I was interested in combining them > into one world-coverage basemap, to act as an "open" replacement for the > Google Maps imagery layer for purposes where the highest resolutions are > less important, or other data can fill in the gaps. > As the subject says Using GeoBase images for openlayers for OpenStreetMap. Currently we use the Yahoo Aerial imagery, it would be great to be able to use imagery from many other sources (this is just in the idea phase) * The process of adding data to OAM was, practically speaking, impossible for anyone who was not an expert to follow. There are a number of technical reason for this, but I think that it is completely reasonable to say that these problems can only be resolved by participation in the project from people who are at least vaguely knowledgeable about working with large geographic data. Perhaps GeoBase would be able to be of assistance? Afterall, GeoBase made the WMS server available so others can use. My guess is they would be able to help, as it would be of great benifit for all the other government agencies, to be able to use a slippy map, containing all the GeoBase data. (images, map road and features) I would suggest that what the project really needs is a way to upload data to be processed by the OpenAerialMap server itself, rather than depending on users to upload 'appropriate' data. This means developing a processing queue to convert data from any available format to one more suitable for use in OAM. The discussion of what is 'appopriate' for OAM requires further discussion as well. Best Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2008-December/004822.html Perhaps i'm a little off, my suggesting that the aerial map be treated the same way that ti...@home gets treated... where it is another layer which can be used. But instead of grabbing the data from OpenStreetMap, it grabs the data from each different government WMS servers, and each of the sources for the Aerial imagery & satellite imagery. The KDE project for Marble Desktop uses OpenStreetMap as a base map, i would think that they would be interested in possibly hosting all the aerial imagery, and perhaps the governments maps also? .. i'm not sure what they currently use for imagery. The purpose of using this valuable aerial imagery would be 3 fold. 1- for map users to be able to use the imagery to be able to trace over for map areas which have not been mapped yet. 2 - for the community to be able to enhance the current state of the map with freely available data. 3 - for the OSGeo community to be able to use the very detailed government map, and be able to have it as a source for whatever applications it gets used on. (sorry, i don't know any other applications for OpenSource Geographical information, than openstreetmap - as it is a breed of it's own.) However this doesn't mean that OSM can't make use of even better OpenLayers. Look forward to any replies of interest, as this is just another Idea i'm floating. :-) Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
> His argument was that there may be places where you face legal trouble > for mapping and we need to allow these people to remain > unidentifiable. I think this is a valid argument, but can be resolved with a series of disposable account names. The advantage of this over simple anonymous edits is that we can know that seemingly separate edits are by the same anonymous user, should that user choose to convey that information by using the same anonymous account multiple times before disposal. That may give us useful clues as to why a person is doing a particular type of edit so that when controversy strikes (as it has in this case) we have more information to go by when deciding whether to nuke a set of edits or take a different course of action. Maybe we should facilitate the creation of anonymous accounts (of the format anon_sdj4fqw5k maybe?). Of course there will be people who choose to create a new anonymous account for every session, and that's absolutely fine too. The choice of how anonymous to be is totally up to the individual. Donald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
David Earl schrieb: > An anonymous user has being changing all bridges without layer tags to > layer=1 in my area. I suspect this is a bot. > > Because the continuity is better without changing layer along a road, > for streams I often set the stream to layer=-1, and leave the layer > alone and that is the case in many of these changes. Please reconsider. I hate it when I see rivers, streams etc. illogically marked as layer=-1. There is no reason to do so, because a river usually is at the top of the surface, and that is "no layer" or "layer=0". Wherever a street crosses a stream, the street has to be split into the normal part and the bridge part. As the layer tag is to help renderers get the vertical ordering right, it is far less intrusive to add "layer=1" to the bridge, instead of adding "layer=-1" to the stream, because this layer usually applies to the whole way of the stream, most likely affecting many other crossings of this stream. Because the layer tag is only a relativ positioning, it's effects should be kept as local as possible. That means to avoid tagging things with it which are very long or very big. > It looks like the change has been made blindly with no real reference to > what the bridge is doing. If the stream is layer=-1 and the bridge was layer=0 and is now layer=1, I cannot see any problem here because nothing is broken. > Humph. I'm going to change a lot of them back, but if this procedure is > run repeatedly this will be an edit war where I'm competing with an > anonymous robot. Don't change it back, change it forward. Remove layer=-1 from the stream. Regards, Sven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
US census has a well-organized system of divisions that might suit the need to create hierarchy within urban agglomerations and poly-centric regions. PMSA- Primary Metropolitan Statistical Area i.e. Greater SF Bay Area is a PMSA SMSA- Secondary Metropolitan Statistical Area possibly SF-Penninsula, Oakland-EastBay and SJ-SouthBay are SMSAs MSA- Metropolitan Statistical Area- the pop. figures and characteristics escape me... PMSA and SMSA account for the SFs and Miamis of the US by statistically recognizing the central core city as the generator/ facilitator of activity (Greater So. Fla: 5.8 million, Miami 380,000) Having these two designations also helps in cases like Ft. Lauderdale, which is part of the Miami PMSA and is a 'core city' of it's own SMSA, yet it's population is only 160,000 while the Miami suburb of Hialeah is over 200,000. the automatic deference to FTL would be built in. Making use of that info however, is where my tech skills fail me As a side note- Denver: True City/County Indianapolis: Annexed entire Marion County Louisville: Government & Municipal consolidation Jacksonville: Annexed entire St. John's County Broomfield, CO (a tiny suburb of Denver: True City/County Cheers, Brandon Aguirre Community Development CloudMade 503.998.1567 Skype: bragpdx bran...@cloudmade.com www.cloudmade.com On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote: As a datapoint, Google renders SF and SJ the same way until you zoom out far enough, and then SJ disappears. FWIW, -Beej ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
Brandon Aguirre wrote: > US census has a well-organized system of divisions that might suit the > need to create hierarchy within urban agglomerations and poly-centric > regions. I like this--it's naming a region, so it doesn't seem so far-fetched that it would be in the map. As a renderer, I might render cities by size until zoomed out enough, then ignore the cities and just render the name of the region instead... -Beej ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:15 PM, David Earl wrote: > On 19/12/2008 20:04, Nic Roets wrote: > invalid assumption that all bridges without layer tags should have > layer=1. In all the cases I've seen it has been largely harmless but > unnecessary and has changed the intent (though I can imagine an obscure > case of a set of tiered bridges where it could actually make it wrong if > someone has relied on the default being layer=0, though that would have > been unwise). I've now tracked through the 22 edits this bot made in the area I monitor. Of those I think 4 will result in corruption (e.g. putting things on the same layer which are not actually reachable from each other), none of the others will make any difference. Maybe I'm lazy but I've always assumed that layer=0 was the default and I've mapped as such and while I could go back over my edits and fix everything that leaves the rest of the planet to fix... Given the high error rate and virtually zero benefit if anyone is able to 'undo' this indiscriminate update (by source IP address, hidden user name, whatever) it would seem a good idea. If it isn't possible to undo the changes (because it is anon.) then I'd +1 the ban on anon. edits for the simple reason that we need to be able to undo things! BTW - it hasn't only changed bridges, also tunnels to -1, and a rather random looking change to a highway tag from highway=unclassified;tertiary to highway=unclassified. -- Brian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
Brian Quinion wrote: > If it isn't possible to undo the changes (because it is anon.) then > I'd +1 the ban on anon. Me too. Anon can still request fixes on openstreetbugs, after all. And if you're going through the trouble of installing and learning a map editor and/or writing your own custom software to access OSM, you can certainly be troubled to make an account. IMHO, -Beej ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Disable Potlatch finally.
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Nic Roets wrote: > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Gert Gremmen wrote: >> Patch #4 >> ... > > Patch #5 > If the user merges two ways which has different tagging and of which > he is not the original editor, ask him "Are you sure ?" A small little non-modal info box stating the problem with doing this, might be better. Considering how easy it is to find these mistakes, it might even be easier to have a script watching the change logs for this. -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Inheritance of roles in nested relations
Greetings
I'm only just starting to play with relations.
I started to think about modularising them after Merkaartor seemed to
get flaky and the interface cumbersome when the bounding box gets large
(comprehensive feedback to that list forthcoming). These are transit
routes.
So I thought of splitting the route into legs or segments and then
creating a relation built from those relations. The added benefit would
be that the same segment can reused for many different routes.
Possibly this is a technique that's well used and terribly obvious to
many of you. I haven't seen explicit reference to it, but you know what
the search tools are like.
So it's occurred to me if I tag a role for a bus stop ("stop") in a
"child" relation, and then include that relation in the larger route
relation, does the bust stop have the role "stop" in the "parent"?
Example:
Rel1 = "segment S1 express stops"
members: Nd1, Nd3 (bus stops, with role="stop")
Rel2 = "segment S1 local stops"
members: Nd2, Nd4
Rel3 = "segment S1 stops" (all)
members: Rel1, Rel2
Rel4 = "segment S1 ways"
members: Way1, Way2
Rel5 = "segment S1"
members: Rel3, Rel4
Rel6 = "segment S2"
(similarly refined, or not)
Rel7 = "Bus route 73"
members: Rel5, Rel6
Is Nd2 still a "stop" in Rel3? In Rel7? Is Way1 part of Rel7?
If you say "it's up to the client application", that's fine. I just
don't want to press ahead with technique, then someone says "that's not
what relations were for" if I complain that a relation role was not
inherited in something.
I guess I would like this inheritance endorsed as something I can rely
on (or not).
I'm not even convinced it's a good idea across all applications, but it
would certainly work for me in this case.
Cheers
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Re: [OSM-talk] Indiscrimate layering
Hi, Brian Quinion wrote: > Given the high error rate and virtually zero benefit if anyone is able > to 'undo' this indiscriminate update (by source IP address, hidden > user name, whatever) it would seem a good idea. If it isn't possible > to undo the changes (because it is anon.) then I'd +1 the ban on anon. > edits for the simple reason that we need to be able to undo things! API 0.6 will bring, with its changeset concept, a forced grouping of edits - even of those made by an anonymous user. That being said, if someone is a lazy script writer, s/he might just decide to create one changeset per change, effectively canceling this. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Inheritance of roles in nested relations
Hi,
Hugh Barnes wrote:
> So it's occurred to me if I tag a role for a bus stop ("stop") in a
> "child" relation, and then include that relation in the larger route
> relation, does the bust stop have the role "stop" in the "parent"?
No, the bus stop is not known the the "parent" at all. Way 1, in your
example, is not part of Rel 7.
> If you say "it's up to the client application", that's fine.
I guess it would be possible to create a "relation viewer" that
recursively downloads child relations and somehow makes a whole from it
for display/use. It's just not something that would work on a general
level - just for specific relation types.
Bye
Frederik
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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