Re: [OSM-talk] OSM server on a (Ubuntu) VM?

[Graham Jones]

I think we may be talking about different things.  I thought the question
was about using a virtual server rather than a dedicated one.  It sounds
like it is about using a virtual machine on a desktop.

In that case you are right that running the database on the host will work
better than on the guest operating system.  Some people are very attached to
Windows though!

Graham

from my phone

On 21 Dec 2010 23:49, "David Murn"  wrote:

On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 14:31 +, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

> Bear in mind though that many of us have...
Not entirely sure what you mean by 'for financial reasons', but I agree
in part.  I do wonder though, if youre using a windows host simply for
financial book-keeping and a ubuntu database server as a guest, youve
got things the wrong way around.  Make your host ubuntu and windows your
VM.  This gets around the performance problems of running a database in
a VM, and you will infact notice an inprovement with windows running in
guest mode instead of host mode, as it will benefit from the caching
available in ubuntu.  Especially if the only reason you need non-ubuntu
software is for financials, then youre better off having that running
part-time in a VM and having your main system operation running as host.

Unless you want to simply render once, dont care how long it takes to
setup or complete, and then delete the whole renderer.  If you expect to
be using the setup more than once, a virtual machine is not the best way
to go.. its not even 2nd best.

David



> While trying to load the whole planet or even the
> whole of a country like the UK might be di...
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:27:08 +0100
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>  A very good map
> can't be done just from orthophotos.

it is quite a legitimate way of producing maps for remote areas, and a
quick web search for orthocadastral map will lead you to scholarly
articles on the use.

My problem is the polarisation which occurs so quickly on this mailing
list. The truthful answer is that sometimes survey is best, and
sometimes other techniques are better.

http://www.fao.org/sd/ltdirect/ltforum/LTfo0010.htm

I would also point out that in the time of the Cold War the USSR
completely mapped the UK from orthophotos, with a little ground work by
the spy network. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209137/The-Soviet-road-map-shows-USSR-planned-invade-Manchester.html
I have read scholarly articles on this set of maps, but can't provide a
link at present.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Did Googles map quality recently degrade?

[ouɐɯnH]

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Toby Murray  wrote:
> Maybe OSM data leaked into their map like it did in south america and
> then they deleted it because of license violations? :)
>
In Colombia Google still does not delete the data taken from openstreetmap.
Humano

> Toby
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Stefan de Konink  wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I was just browsing on Google Maps while geocoding some stuff, and I
>> noticed that a lot of improvements that were on there before suddenly
>> disappeared, even more interesting some parts like (water) basically
>> ended up in complete non-sense.
>>
>> I'm really wondering who is pulling the strings there, because now it is
>> even more trivial to see how much better we are. Anyone is seeing this
>> happening in their area's as well?
>>
>>
>> Stefan
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>>
>> iEYEAREKAAYFAk0RM9cACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn29BACeO2eLQ0VUPZ3UqfEd7oEqtrXL
>> LUgAn1+uw1y+wkrr0x/Hx/7hjharK0HH
>> =b+MW
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Did Googles map quality recently degrade?

[Stefan de Konink]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Op 22-12-10 01:26, Steve Bennett schreef:
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Stefan de Konink  wrote:
>> On the Dutch mailinglist/IRC I have raised the point why Google Maps was
>> always upgraded like within weeks after we did. With different
>> information though. Like OpenStreetMap is used as a Teleatlas-Bugs or
>> something like it.
> 
> We should have some serious evidence before we start making
> accusations like that.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.73157,3.94686&spn=0.002422,0.004206&z=18

Look in the history of openstreetmap.



That Kijkuitsedijk example was an error that I originally made with that
road, I fixed it up this summer. Then we imported also the buildings.


>> But lets say I'm talking about _serious_ degradation here. Complete
>> streets disappeared...
> 
> Any examples?



This was in Google before. It was one of the examples they suddenly took
over from us. Then I noticed yesterday:



Now I really don't care about it since all my edits are PD anyway. But
look at the canals, it became ugly, hell ugly on Google.


Stefan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEAREKAAYFAk0SGVQACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3AUACfWnw17LGtwpZtyCdExlmd9MZZ
0EIAnjadhtJTsGtpcBR345nc4EsWOXnr
=98BI
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[Craig Wallace]

On 22/12/2010 09:02, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:


I would also point out that in the time of the Cold War the USSR
completely mapped the UK from orthophotos, with a little ground work by
the spy network.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209137/The-Soviet-road-map-shows-USSR-planned-invade-Manchester.html
I have read scholarly articles on this set of maps, but can't provide a
link at present.


That article says much of it was copied from OS maps or road atlases 
etc. It also says "But there's so much extra information, it would be 
fair to assume that they were able to gather a considerable amount of 
intelligence on the ground."


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Re: [OSM-talk] Did Googles map quality recently degrade?

[Richard Fairhurst]

Stefan de Konink wrote:
> I'm really wondering who is pulling the strings there, because now 
> it is even more trivial to see how much better we are. Anyone is 
> seeing this happening in their area's as well?

Certainly in the UK there's a lot more 'Google-sourced' data appearing on
the maps, often seemingly scraped from the web.
http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=344 is an amusing take on it all.

I think it's generally assumed that this is a precursor to Google dumping
TeleAtlas data completely and replacing it with their own data, largely
sourced from StreetView cars - just as has happened in the States.

cheers
Richard


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[OSM-talk] remote edit link not working in opera

[Jozef Riha]

hello, edit - edit with remote control on osm.org does nothing in
opera 11.0 (linux). works correctly in both chromium and firefox. can
any of devs please take a look?

cheers,

jose

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Re: [OSM-talk] remote edit link not working in opera

[Tom Hughes]

On 22/12/10 17:04, Jozef Riha wrote:


hello, edit - edit with remote control on osm.org does nothing in
opera 11.0 (linux). works correctly in both chromium and firefox. can
any of devs please take a look?


I have already looked at it but have been unable to fix it. It does in 
fact work, but only the first time you use it in a given Opera instance.


After that Opera just doesn't seem to make the connection any more.

A second problem is that because Opera always fires the onload event for 
the iframe, even if loading the content failed, the error popup doesn't 
work on Opera if JOSM isn't running.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Someone already had a look at theBing TermsofUse?

[Frederik Ramm]

Anthony,

Anthony wrote:

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 2:17 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

I believe you could also do other things with traced data but that would
then be subject to the normal license, not the special license they granted
to OpenStreetMap.


And how do believe they achieve that?  Through copyright law?  Through
contract law?  Through some other mechanism?


Frankly, I don't care, and since I do not intend to get actively 
involved in any fork, I'll not waste my time thinking about what *they* 
will be allowed to do.


Anyway, the community in that fork can set their own bounds of what they 
consider acceptable. They can even trace from Google and build on the 
assumption that nobody will come after them. I am sure that Microsoft 
has allowed data to be traced for OSM; I don't believe it is their 
intent to allow tracing of data for other purposes but (a) I may be 
wrong, (b) someone could always say that their intent doesn't matter 
anyway. It isn't relevant to me, or to OSM.


Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 15:46:36 +
Craig Wallace  wrote:

> On 22/12/2010 09:02, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
> 
> > I would also point out that in the time of the Cold War the USSR
> > completely mapped the UK from orthophotos, with a little ground
> > work by the spy network.
> > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209137/The-Soviet-road-map-shows-USSR-planned-invade-Manchester.html
> > I have read scholarly articles on this set of maps, but can't
> > provide a link at present.
> 
> That article says much of it was copied from OS maps or road atlases 
> etc. It also says "But there's so much extra information, it would be 
> fair to assume that they were able to gather a considerable amount of 
> intelligence on the ground."
> 

There is / was on the web a scholarly interpretation of the full set of
maps. The conclusion of that was not the same as the journalist's or
the editor's. Someone on this list will have the link to a full
discussion.


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Re: [OSM-talk] remote edit link not working in opera

[Stephan Knauss]

On 22.12.2010 19:15, Tom Hughes wrote:

A second problem is that because Opera always fires the onload event for
the iframe, even if loading the content failed, the error popup doesn't
work on Opera if JOSM isn't running.


Why not using the CORS routine I implemented for remote control? Sounds 
better than waiting for an error.


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/RemoteControl#version_command

Check the Cuisine Map for a real world example.
http://toolserver.org/~stephankn/cuisine/
In case you have JOSM running and RemoteControl enabled it provides you 
with an edit button.


Stephan

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Re: [OSM-talk] remote edit link not working in opera

[Tom Hughes]

On 22/12/10 20:55, Stephan Knauss wrote:

On 22.12.2010 19:15, Tom Hughes wrote:

A second problem is that because Opera always fires the onload event for
the iframe, even if loading the content failed, the error popup doesn't
work on Opera if JOSM isn't running.


Why not using the CORS routine I implemented for remote control? Sounds
better than waiting for an error.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/RemoteControl#version_command


Because (a) I wasn't aware of it and (b) only the JOSM implementation of 
remote control implements it.


I don't actually need to get any data back anyway, so I'm not even sure 
that I need a callback. I just need to know if the connection worked. I 
think XHR can do that but I have no idea how because I've never used it 
directly - I've always used a high level wrapper of some sort.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Did Googles map quality recently degrade?

[Steve Bennett]

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Stefan de Konink  wrote:
>> We should have some serious evidence before we start making
>> accusations like that.
>
> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.73157,3.94686&spn=0.002422,0.004206&z=18
>
> Look in the history of openstreetmap.
>
> 
>
> That Kijkuitsedijk example was an error that I originally made with that
> road, I fixed it up this summer. Then we imported also the buildings.

Thanks - examples are good.

Steve

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[OSM-talk] Use of Bing imagery visualised

[Steve Chilton]

Have done a quick render to show the effect of using Bing imagery to get 
building outlines.
The two illustrations are for the Borough of Enfield (using today's geofabrik 
data file).
The larger shapes are predominantly those done earlier from OS OpenData.
The smaller shapes are a bunch of buildings traced from Bing imagery.
Whole Borough http://www.stevechilton.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/osm/buildings1.png
Detail http://www.stevechilton.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/osm/buildings2.png

Cheers
STEVE

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Re: [OSM-talk] Use of Bing imagery visualised

[Steve Bennett]

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Steve Chilton  wrote:
> Have done a quick render to show the effect of using Bing imagery to get 
> building outlines.
> The two illustrations are for the Borough of Enfield (using today's geofabrik 
> data file).
> The larger shapes are predominantly those done earlier from OS OpenData.
> The smaller shapes are a bunch of buildings traced from Bing imagery.
> Whole Borough http://www.stevechilton.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/osm/buildings1.png
> Detail http://www.stevechilton.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/osm/buildings2.png

Wow - nice work!

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[Steve Bennett]

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:19 PM, John F. Eldredge  wrote:
> If you can map a street in just five seconds, using just three clicks and a 
> keypress, this implies that you are mapping just the end points, with just a 
> calculated line between them.  Very few streets in the world are absolutely 
> straight, with no curves at all.  This also means that you aren't bothering 
> to join streets at intersections, so none of the streets you map will be 
> routable.  Plus, from what you say, you aren't creating any tags on the roads 
> you map.  Most of the rest of us try to do a better job of mapping than that.

Good grief. Where do I start? By apologising for my loose wording:
"click, click, click" wasn't meant to indicate precisely three clicks.
It's often four.

>Very few streets in the world are absolutely straight

They are in grid-pattern suburbia and in agricultural areas on flat
land. Prepare to have your mind blown:
http://osm.org/go/uHo5Jhc-
http://osm.org/go/uG4IcTi7-

>This also means that you aren't bothering to join streets at intersections,

You can create a branch from one street, and connect it to another
street (ie, a straight side street) with a shift-click, and one more
click. Potlatch 2.

>Plus, from what you say, you aren't creating any tags on the roads you map.

That's what the "R" keypress is for. Repeat tags.
highway=residential,source=Bing. Sometimes there's a surface=unpaved.

>Most of the rest of us try to do a better job of mapping than that.

The only way your whole email makes sense is if you think I'm a
retarded monkey who failed OSM 101. I mean really: you think I'm
sitting here creating a bunch of straight ways (even though the road
is curved), that aren't connected to anything, and have no tags at all
(not even highway=road). I'd be insulted, but your suggestions are
just too ludicrous.If you were just trolling, then well played.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[John F. Eldredge]

I took your description of what you were doing at face value.  Being a 
borderline-Asperger's type, I am sometimes a bit too literal-minded.

---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
>From  :mailto:stevag...@gmail.com
Date  :Wed Dec 22 20:02:12 America/Chicago 2010


On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:19 PM, John F. Eldredge  wrote:
> If you can map a street in just five seconds, using just three clicks and a 
> keypress, this implies that you are mapping just the end points, with just a 
> calculated line between them.  Very few streets in the world are absolutely 
> straight, with no curves at all.  This also means that you aren't bothering 
> to join streets at intersections, so none of the streets you map will be 
> routable.  Plus, from what you say, you aren't creating any tags on the roads 
> you map.  Most of the rest of us try to do a better job of mapping than that.

Good grief. Where do I start? By apologising for my loose wording:
"click, click, click" wasn't meant to indicate precisely three clicks.
It's often four.

>Very few streets in the world are absolutely straight

They are in grid-pattern suburbia and in agricultural areas on flat
land. Prepare to have your mind blown:
http://osm.org/go/uHo5Jhc-
http://osm.org/go/uG4IcTi7-

>This also means that you aren't bothering to join streets at intersections,

You can create a branch from one street, and connect it to another
street (ie, a straight side street) with a shift-click, and one more
click. Potlatch 2.

>Plus, from what you say, you aren't creating any tags on the roads you map.

That's what the "R" keypress is for. Repeat tags.
highway=residential,source=Bing. Sometimes there's a surface=unpaved.

>Most of the rest of us try to do a better job of mapping than that.

The only way your whole email makes sense is if you think I'm a
retarded monkey who failed OSM 101. I mean really: you think I'm
sitting here creating a bunch of straight ways (even though the road
is curved), that aren't connected to anything, and have no tags at all
(not even highway=road). I'd be insulted, but your suggestions are
just too ludicrous.If you were just trolling, then well played.

Steve

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"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[Steve Bennett]

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:18 PM, John F. Eldredge  wrote:
> I took your description of what you were doing at face value.  Being a 
> borderline-Asperger's type, I am sometimes a bit too literal-minded.

Oh I see. That makes sense - will bear in mind for the future.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taginfo news: Daily updates and wiki integration

[Steve Bennett]

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> The second news is the wiki integration. If you go to a wiki page describing
> a key or tag (such as http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway or
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=residential ) you´ll see some
> statistics from Taginfo in the infobox on the right. (Technically this is
> done through a special Mediawiki plugin developed by Grant that creates an
> iframe. This is embedded in the templates that create the infobox.) This
> way its quick and easy to see directly on the wiki page how often a tag is
> used.

Brilliant stuff.

Btw, what character is being used to separate thousands: 1 580 692 It
renders ok in Chrome, but Opera is displaying a box. Maybe just use a
normal space instead?

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taginfo news: Daily updates and wiki integration

[Jochen Topf]

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 01:57:49PM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> > The second news is the wiki integration. If you go to a wiki page describing
> > a key or tag (such as http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway or
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=residential ) you´ll see some
> > statistics from Taginfo in the infobox on the right. (Technically this is
> > done through a special Mediawiki plugin developed by Grant that creates an
> > iframe. This is embedded in the templates that create the infobox.) This
> > way its quick and easy to see directly on the wiki page how often a tag is
> > used.
> 
> Brilliant stuff.
> 
> Btw, what character is being used to separate thousands: 1 580 692 It
> renders ok in Chrome, but Opera is displaying a box. Maybe just use a
> normal space instead?

Thats a bug in Opera 10, somebody already told them. Works in all other
browsers. A normal space is too wide.

Jochen
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