[OSM-talk] Data reconciliation. Removing CT/ODbL declined users.

[Richard Weait]

Dear All,

The License Working Group takes the position that it is now
appropriate to begin reconciling the data touched by users who have
explicitly declined CT/ODbL.  LWG feels that those users who have not
responded should have a grace period of another week or two.  You can
find the list of usernames that have declined here.
http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/license/  This page is updated every
hour.

As always, map areas that you know well and in small pieces.  At this
point don't remove non-compliant data unless you are replacing it;
another mapper may be able to replace it from local knowledge or
survey.  Bulk edits and or automated edits and or bots to reconcile
non-compliant data are not welcome without previous, detailed
discussion on the dev@ and or imports@ lists.  Share your experiences
to find the most effective workflows for improving OpenStreetMap data
quality.

- Check your local mapping area for data that is not completely
CT/ODbL compliant.  In Potlatch2, choose Options, and check "Show
license status".  There is also a licensechange plugin for JOSM.

- Consider sending personal messages before you edit to those who have
not accepted or those who have declined based on your judgement.  Some
users have declined and indicated on their user pages that they will
not reconsider.  We do not wish to send unwelcome or duplicate
messages.  See also
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Asking_users_to_accept_the_ODbL

- Replace the data of users who have explicitly declined CT/ODbL with
your own contributions from survey and other acceptable sources.

- While this initial stage is focused on replacing data touched by
users who have explicitly declined, you might find data touched by
users who have not yet responded.  We leave it to your judgement to
replace that data now or wait another week or two.

Once you begin replacing data, check on a regular basis whether the
user in question hasn't changed his/her mind and has accepted CT/ODbL.
You can look at http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/license/, this is
updated every hour.

Best regards,
Richard Weait,
on behalf of the License Working Group.

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[OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Richard Weait]

Color-coded map of ODbL status
http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/

list your favourites:

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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[IgnacioZ]

Hi, what do the different colors mean?

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Richard Weait  wrote:

> Color-coded map of ODbL status
> http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/
>
> list your favourites:
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

IgnacioZ wrote:

Hi, what do the different colors mean?


Scroll down for an explanation.

Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Orphaned Relations

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 03:03:53PM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
> On 17 July 2011 23:55, Sarah Hoffmann  wrote:
> > I recently stumbled upon some empty route relations, so I had a
> > closer look at the OSM planet and found that there are about
> > 10.000 orphaned relations in the database and the number is growing.
> >
> > With orphaned I mean relations that have no members and are not
> > member of any other relation. Some are completely empty but most
> > still have some tags. I have created a list of the relations sorted
> > by last editing user here:
> ...
> >
> > Question remains what to do with the existing orphaned relations.
> > Is there any legimate use for them or would it be save to simply
> > delete them all?
> 
> So I had stumbled on the same fact about a year ago and after some
> discussion on this list I deleted about 8000 empty/orphaned relations.
>  It seems all except a handful of those 8000 relations had indeed been
> left in the not-deleted state by mistake.  There were a couple (<5)
> that had still been referenced from the wiki, rather than from inside
> the database through other relations.  I got a couple of e-mails
> months later asking about those relations and undeleted them, it would
> probably be a good idea to check for references in the wiki beforehand
> this time.  I don't think it makes sense to create such empty
> relations before any members are added to them because it's quite
> likely someone else is going to create a duplicate, but I don't have a
> strong opinion and being in the losing position as an author of an
> automated edit I didn't want to argue with the creators of these
> relations.

I must have missed that discussion. 

So I gather it is pretty pointless to try and fix the database
if new empty relations arrive with a rate of about 30 per day,
time is better spent improving editors and/or creating 
a service where people can find their lost relations again. I'll 
look into it.

A more final solution to the problem would be to reject empty
relations on the API side. But that still requires fixing the editors
first. Maybe something for API 0.7.

Sarah



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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Richard Weait  wrote:
> Color-coded map of ODbL status
> http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/

The problem with this ODbL map is that it only shows the status of
highways. No nodes, other ways, nor relations.

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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Steve Coast]

does it work outside of the EUish? Not getting any joy in Seattle.

On 7/20/2011 9:54 AM, Richard Weait wrote:

Color-coded map of ODbL status
http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/

list your favourites:

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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Steve Coast]

seems to work now, just a delay rendering :-)

would be nice to link this to something which tells me the usernames too 
in the bbox



On 7/20/2011 10:58 AM, Steve Coast wrote:

does it work outside of the EUish? Not getting any joy in Seattle.

On 7/20/2011 9:54 AM, Richard Weait wrote:

Color-coded map of ODbL status
http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/

list your favourites:

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Re: [OSM-talk] Sotm-EU11: thanks to the organisation committee

[pavithran]

On 19 July 2011 18:39, Patrick Weber  wrote:
> Yes, would be great to be able to download the videos!
+1 the flash player doesnt load on chrome browser plus it is very slow
and I can't see it paused. Woder why its not caching .

If a direct link for video is given . I could wget video.flv and watch
it on vlc or some local player .

Regards,
Pavithran


-- 
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http://look-pavi.blogspot.com

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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Andrew Guertin]

On 07/20/2011 12:54 PM, Richard Weait wrote:
> Color-coded map of ODbL status
> http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/

Is this using old data? I've spent the last few months cleaning up road
centerlines, names, etc. in my area, and the overlay looks like it
doesn't have some changes from May 1, but it does from March 12.

Also, what's the meaning of the "accepted or declined" etc. colors?

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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Oleg]

hmmm, can't figure out if it works - looks like regular OSM tiles, can't see
any status coloring... - any permalink?

2011/7/20 Steve Coast 

> seems to work now, just a delay rendering :-)
>
> would be nice to link this to something which tells me the usernames too in
> the bbox
>
>
>
> On 7/20/2011 10:58 AM, Steve Coast wrote:
>
>> does it work outside of the EUish? Not getting any joy in Seattle.
>>
>> On 7/20/2011 9:54 AM, Richard Weait wrote:
>>
>>> Color-coded map of ODbL status
>>> http://osm.informatik.uni-**leipzig.de/map/
>>>
>>> list your favourites:
>>>
>>> __**_
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>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>> __**_
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>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 21.07.2011 00:00, schrieb Oleg:
hmmm, can't figure out if it works - looks like regular OSM tiles, 
can't see any status coloring... - any permalink?


The information is visible in a second layer above the mapnik layer. 
Which system/browser do you use?



Best regards,
Michael.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Data reconciliation. Removing CT/ODbL declined users.

[Nathan Edgars II]

Richard Weait wrote:
> 
> The License Working Group takes the position that it is now
> appropriate to begin reconciling the data touched by users who have
> explicitly declined CT/ODbL.  LWG feels that those users who have not
> responded should have a grace period of another week or two.  You can
> find the list of usernames that have declined here.
> http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/license/  This page is updated every
> hour.
> 

I take the position that it is now stupid to continue standing in front of
the CT/ODbL tank. But let it be known that many of my contributions are
derivative of others, and so I cannot guarantee that they are not tainted.
Hence my acceptance means nothing about the suitability of the data. Also
let me go on record as saying that this whole license change is fucking
stupid. That is all.

--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Data-reconciliation-Removing-CT-ODbL-declined-users-tp6603496p6604678.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[OSM-talk] XAPI compability layer

[Roland Olbricht]

Overpass API has now a XAPI compability layer. It can answer the more common 
XAPI queries, details are explained on the wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API#XAPI_Compability_Layer

Example queries are
http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi?map?bbox=7.1,51.2,7.2,51.3
or
http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi?*[bbox=7.1,51.2,7.2,51.3][name=Weststraße]

Feel free to produce rather a lot of load. Although this is still a 
development server, I need a realistic load test. The server should have a 
primitive yet working protection against overload, so you cannot harm anybody.

Cheers,

Roland

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Re: [OSM-talk] Sotm-EU11: thanks to the organisation committee

[SomeoneElse]

On 18/07/2011 13:25, Norbert Wenzel wrote:


All videos should now be online. If there's still a video missing we 
do not have the right to publish it or we have technical problems with 
the video (Steves Keynote seems not to work. Andreas Trawöger is still 
working on this together with the TU Teaching Support Center.)



The embedded video player is unwatchable now (even when most people in 
Austria are probably asleep).  Just the audio downloads are really all 
that need to be downloaded (the links to the presentations are already 
available in various formats).  Could these (or as Pavi suggests the raw 
.flv files) be made available (in any format, as long as they're 
downloadable)?


Cheers,
Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Oleg]

Chrome, latest I believe. Any zoom limits?

2011/7/21 Michael Kugelmann 

> Am 21.07.2011 00:00, schrieb Oleg:
>
>  hmmm, can't figure out if it works - looks like regular OSM tiles, can't
>> see any status coloring... - any permalink?
>>
>
> The information is visible in a second layer above the mapnik layer. Which
> system/browser do you use?
>
>
> Best regards,
> Michael.
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Data reconciliation. Removing CT/ODbL declined users.

[Michael Kugelmann]

On 21.07.2011 00:27 MEST, Nathan Edgars II commented:

[...]

...don't feed the trolls...

[Plonk]


Best regards,
Michael.




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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Toby Murray]

The colors start at zoom 12. But if the area hasn't been viewed before
it may take a while to render the overlay tiles, especially with it
being hit by a bunch of us at the same time because of a link being
shared on a large mailing list :)

Toby

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Oleg  wrote:
> Chrome, latest I believe. Any zoom limits?
>
> 2011/7/21 Michael Kugelmann 
>>
>> Am 21.07.2011 00:00, schrieb Oleg:
>>>
>>> hmmm, can't figure out if it works - looks like regular OSM tiles, can't
>>> see any status coloring... - any permalink?
>>
>> The information is visible in a second layer above the mapnik layer. Which
>> system/browser do you use?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Michael.
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Data reconciliation. Removing CT/ODbL declined users.

[Toby Murray]

One *BIG* note that needs to be put out there specifically for the US:

User balrog-kun has explicitly declined the license. He ran a bot that
expanded abbreviations in TIGER street names in the western US which
means that virtually every named street west of the Mississippi shows
up as "tainted" in P2.

*BUT*

He has explicitly stated multiple times that he intends for these bot
edits to be relicensed under ODbL. So if balrog-kun is the only
declining user to have touched a road, there is no need to replace it.

The "ODBL coverage" map ( http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/ )
takes this into account but P2 does not. I think the map assumes any
change made in a changeset with a bot=yes tag can be relicensed
although I'm not sure on the exact implementation.

Toby



On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Richard Weait  wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> The License Working Group takes the position that it is now
> appropriate to begin reconciling the data touched by users who have
> explicitly declined CT/ODbL.  LWG feels that those users who have not
> responded should have a grace period of another week or two.  You can
> find the list of usernames that have declined here.
> http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/license/  This page is updated every
> hour.
>
> As always, map areas that you know well and in small pieces.  At this
> point don't remove non-compliant data unless you are replacing it;
> another mapper may be able to replace it from local knowledge or
> survey.  Bulk edits and or automated edits and or bots to reconcile
> non-compliant data are not welcome without previous, detailed
> discussion on the dev@ and or imports@ lists.  Share your experiences
> to find the most effective workflows for improving OpenStreetMap data
> quality.
>
> - Check your local mapping area for data that is not completely
> CT/ODbL compliant.  In Potlatch2, choose Options, and check "Show
> license status".  There is also a licensechange plugin for JOSM.
>
> - Consider sending personal messages before you edit to those who have
> not accepted or those who have declined based on your judgement.  Some
> users have declined and indicated on their user pages that they will
> not reconsider.  We do not wish to send unwelcome or duplicate
> messages.  See also
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Asking_users_to_accept_the_ODbL
>
> - Replace the data of users who have explicitly declined CT/ODbL with
> your own contributions from survey and other acceptable sources.
>
> - While this initial stage is focused on replacing data touched by
> users who have explicitly declined, you might find data touched by
> users who have not yet responded.  We leave it to your judgement to
> replace that data now or wait another week or two.
>
> Once you begin replacing data, check on a regular basis whether the
> user in question hasn't changed his/her mind and has accepted CT/ODbL.
> You can look at http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/license/, this is
> updated every hour.
>
> Best regards,
> Richard Weait,
> on behalf of the License Working Group.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Data reconciliation. Removing CT/ODbL declined users.

[Alan Mintz]

At 2011-07-20 09:49, Richard Weait wrote:

The License Working Group takes the position that it is now
appropriate to begin reconciling the data touched by users who have
explicitly declined CT/ODbL. ...



...don't remove non-compliant data unless you are replacing it;...



Is there a clear definition of what "non-compliant" data is?

Is it (a) based on the last user to edit an object, or (b) is an objected 
tainted if it was touched at any point by a declining user?


If (b), must the object be removed and then re-created (with a different 
object ID)? And why is that object conceptually any different than (a)?


Is a way tainted if any of the nodes it references is tainted?

Is a relation tainted if any of its members (or its members' members, etc.) 
are tainted?


I'm sure there is a long discussion of these issues somewhere, but a 
concise answer to these specific questions seems necessary in order to know 
how to reconcile.


--
Alan Mintz 


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Re: [OSM-talk] XAPI compability layer

[Ian]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:27:25 PM UTC-5, Roland Olbricht wrote:
>
> Overpass API has now a XAPI compability layer. It can answer the more 
> common 
> XAPI queries, details are explained on the wiki:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API#XAPI_Compability_Layer
>
> Example queries are
> http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi?map?bbox=7.1,51.2,7.2,51.3
> or
>
> http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi?*[bbox=7.1,51.2,7.2,51.3][name=Weststraße]
>
> Feel free to produce rather a lot of load. Although this is still a 
> development server, I need a realistic load test. The server should have a 
> primitive yet working protection against overload, so you cannot harm 
> anybody.
>
It looks like you're missing the "expand ways" step. For example, a query 
like this:

http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi?*[amenity=pub][bbox=-93.66943,44.65302,-92.65869,45.25942]
 

Only returns the ways or nodes tagged amenity=pub and inside that bounding 
box.

In order to use the OSM file it also needs to include the nodes referenced 
by the ways.

Perhaps it's not meant to do that (the XML root isn't ) but it would be 
useful to have to make it closer to XAPI.
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Re: [OSM-talk] data reconciliation tools

[Toby Murray]

You know what would be perfect? If this map had the data layer as seen
on osm.org. Then you could easily look up the details of ways you want
to investigate.

Toby

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Toby Murray  wrote:
> The colors start at zoom 12. But if the area hasn't been viewed before
> it may take a while to render the overlay tiles, especially with it
> being hit by a bunch of us at the same time because of a link being
> shared on a large mailing list :)
>
> Toby
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Oleg  wrote:
>> Chrome, latest I believe. Any zoom limits?
>>
>> 2011/7/21 Michael Kugelmann 
>>>
>>> Am 21.07.2011 00:00, schrieb Oleg:

 hmmm, can't figure out if it works - looks like regular OSM tiles, can't
 see any status coloring... - any permalink?
>>>
>>> The information is visible in a second layer above the mapnik layer. Which
>>> system/browser do you use?
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Michael.
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] XAPI compability layer

[Roland Olbricht]

> It looks like you're missing the "expand ways" step. For example, a query
> like this:

Thank you for reporting this. It should be fixed now. Do I understand it 
right, this does not apply to relations?

> Perhaps it's not meant to do that (the XML root isn't ) but it would
>  be useful to have to make it closer to XAPI.

I assume that most tools don't need the  tag in particular. The reason 
for the differing tag is that there might be elements (areas, error and status 
messages, the copyleft remark) which are not present in osm files.

Cheers,

Roland

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