Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Jeff Meyer]

What do you mean, "The wrong route?" Is there a wrong route for recruiting
and engaging new mappers?

As for interacting, why are you presuming I have not done so?

On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Robin Paulson  wrote:

> On 2013-01-02 07:26, Jeff Meyer wrote:
>
>> I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play
>> around with the code youve written, to see what results it generates?
>>
>>  The issue Im trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM &
>>
>> then make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is
>> it because they dont know what to edit?
>>
>
> have you tried good old human interaction? rather than trying to second
> guess them and spending a lot of time creating some tool which doesn't
> address the problem, maybe ask why they don't contribute?
>
> this isn't at all answering the question you asked, but i think you may
> have asked a question which takes you down the wrong route.
>
>
> --
> robin
>
> http://**universitywithoutconditions.**ac.nz-
>  Auckland's Free University
>
> __**_
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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Robin Paulson]

On 2013-01-02 07:26, Jeff Meyer wrote:

I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play
around with the code youve written, to see what results it generates?

 The issue Im trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM &
then make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is
it because they dont know what to edit?


have you tried good old human interaction? rather than trying to second 
guess them and spending a lot of time creating some tool which doesn't 
address the problem, maybe ask why they don't contribute?


this isn't at all answering the question you asked, but i think you may 
have asked a question which takes you down the wrong route.


--
robin

http://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University

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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Svavar Kjarrval]

What I've found easiest is to encourage people to check on areas they
know well, like where they currently live. Armed with that and maybe
some imagery, they might have some basis to make edits. They will be
fairly careful since it's an area they care about.

- Svavar Kjarrval

On 01/01/13 18:26, Jeff Meyer wrote:
> Russ - 
>
> I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play around
> with the code you've written, to see what results it generates?
>
> The issue I'm trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM &
> then make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is
> it because they don't know what to edit?
>
> I'm trying to hit the latter question, which is where I think I'm
> trying to do something different from what Robin & Serge discuss -
> there *are* people who don't know what OSM offers them that interests
> them. They haven't decided to go out for a walk yet, they haven't
> decided they're going to test the waters. OSM can be intimidating. How
> do we make it less so? 
>
> - Jeff
>
>
> -- 
> Jeff Meyer
> Global World History Atlas
> www.gwhat.org 
> j...@gwhat.org 
> 206-676-2347
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Russ Nelson]

Christian Quest writes:
 > newcomers are afraid of breaking existing stuff.

I was totally afraid of breaking existing stuff. How embarrassing!
Maybe if it was easier to revert a changeset, like from the person's
changeset listing?

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [OSM-talk] Image of the week points to wrong week

[Pierre Béland]

Thanks Erik, the image is back.


 
Pierre 



>
> De : Erik Lundin 
>À : talk@openstreetmap.org 
>Envoyé le : Mardi 1 janvier 2013 14h11
>Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] Image of the week points to wrong week
> 
>Another way to get the week number that's not zero-padded is to bring 
>back the {{CURRENTWEEK}}, but then different syntaxes are mixed, which 
>is a bit ugly. I did this as a workaround just to get it working, but 
>we'll have to figure out the best long term solution.
>
>Regards,
>Erik
>
>2013-01-01 19:52, Erik Lundin skrev:
>> There was an edit [1] to get the correct year belonging to this week,
>> since week number 1 of 2013 started before year 2012 ended. There is a
>> syntax for this in MediaWiki, see [2]. However, the trouble seems to be
>> that using that syntax, the week number is only available zero-padded,
>> while the images have names that aren't zero-padded. I guess the easiest
>> solution is to rename "Template:Iotw image/2013-1" to "Template:Iotw
>> image/2013-01".
>>
>> Regards,
>> Erik
>>
>> [1]
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Image_of_the_week&diff=prev&oldid=848636
>>
>> [2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23time
>>
>> 2013-01-01 19:35, Pierre Béland skrev:
>>> In page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page, Image of the week
>>> points to Template:Iotw image/2013-2.
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> The first week image do not appear today. Is this the zero day bug?
>>> Somebody nows how to correct?
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Image of the week points to wrong week

[Andrew]

> There was an 
edit [1] to get 
the correct 
year belonging 
to this week, 
> since week 
number 1 of 
2013 started 
before year 
2012 ended. 
There is a 
> syntax for 
this in 
MediaWiki, see 
[2]. However, 
the trouble 
seems to be 
> that using 
that syntax, 
the week 
number is only 
available zero-
padded, 
> while the 
images have 
names that 
aren't zero-
padded. I 
guess the 
easiest 
> solution is to 
rename 
"Template:Iotw 
image/2013-1" 
to 
"Template:Iotw
 
> image/2013-
01".
> 
> Regards,
> Erik
> 
> [1] 
> http://
wiki.openstreet
map.org/w/
index.php?
title=Template:
Image_of_the_
week&diff=pre
v&oldid=84863
6

I mistakenly 
used the 
syntax #time: 
o-W originally 
instead of the 
correct #time: 
o-w. I thought 
I had corrected 
everything.

--
Andrew


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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Christian Quest]

After trying to contaminate a couple of friends with the OSM virus,
the biggest problem I think we have comes from the complexity of the
editors (even P2) multiplied by the growing data density.

The growing amount of data makes editing looking more difficult and
newcomers are afraid of breaking existing stuff.

Graphical editors are needed when you create new objects, but with the
growing number of already existing objecs another generation of
editing tools becomes possible.

Look at wheelmap on smartphones. You add details (wheelchair
accessibility and a few others) to existing objects.
It's much much easier to use for a first contact... than using P2 to
add wheelchair access or other details.

I think we need to think of new ways to contribute, with less
graphical editors more in the "cues" approach with some kind of
wizard-like interface. Once contaminated by the OSM virus, graphical
editors will be seen as great tools ;)

I thought of cross checking existing OSM POI in a town with
statistical databases* to say "there is 3 bakeries known in OSM, but
it looks like 2 are missing... would you like to add them ?"
or something as simple as "do you know where you local townhall is
located ? add it"


* in France, we have such a database available from government
statistics agency (INSEE), it lists more than 200 different kinds of
possible POIs on a village by village level (or even lower level in
towns).



2013/1/1 Jeff Meyer :
> Russ -
>
> I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play around with
> the code you've written, to see what results it generates?
>
> The issue I'm trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM & then
> make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is it because
> they don't know what to edit?
>
> I'm trying to hit the latter question, which is where I think I'm trying to
> do something different from what Robin & Serge discuss - there *are* people
> who don't know what OSM offers them that interests them. They haven't
> decided to go out for a walk yet, they haven't decided they're going to test
> the waters. OSM can be intimidating. How do we make it less so?
>
> - Jeff
>
>
> --
> Jeff Meyer
> Global World History Atlas
> www.gwhat.org
> j...@gwhat.org
> 206-676-2347
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Image of the week points to wrong week

[Erik Lundin]

Another way to get the week number that's not zero-padded is to bring 
back the {{CURRENTWEEK}}, but then different syntaxes are mixed, which 
is a bit ugly. I did this as a workaround just to get it working, but 
we'll have to figure out the best long term solution.


Regards,
Erik

2013-01-01 19:52, Erik Lundin skrev:

There was an edit [1] to get the correct year belonging to this week,
since week number 1 of 2013 started before year 2012 ended. There is a
syntax for this in MediaWiki, see [2]. However, the trouble seems to be
that using that syntax, the week number is only available zero-padded,
while the images have names that aren't zero-padded. I guess the easiest
solution is to rename "Template:Iotw image/2013-1" to "Template:Iotw
image/2013-01".

Regards,
Erik

[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Image_of_the_week&diff=prev&oldid=848636

[2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23time

2013-01-01 19:35, Pierre Béland skrev:

In page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page, Image of the week
points to Template:Iotw image/2013-2.



The first week image do not appear today. Is this the zero day bug?
Somebody nows how to correct?
Pierre


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Re: [OSM-talk] Image of the week points to wrong week

[Erik Lundin]

There was an edit [1] to get the correct year belonging to this week, 
since week number 1 of 2013 started before year 2012 ended. There is a 
syntax for this in MediaWiki, see [2]. However, the trouble seems to be 
that using that syntax, the week number is only available zero-padded, 
while the images have names that aren't zero-padded. I guess the easiest 
solution is to rename "Template:Iotw image/2013-1" to "Template:Iotw 
image/2013-01".


Regards,
Erik

[1] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Image_of_the_week&diff=prev&oldid=848636

[2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23time

2013-01-01 19:35, Pierre Béland skrev:

In page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page, Image of the week
points to Template:Iotw image/2013-2.


The first week image do not appear today. Is this the zero day bug?
Somebody nows how to correct?
Pierre


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[OSM-talk] Image of the week points to wrong week

[Pierre Béland]

In page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page, Image of the week points 
to Template:Iotw image/2013-2.
The first week image do not appear today. Is this the zero day bug? Somebody 
nows how to correct?

 
Pierre 
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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Jeff Meyer]

Russ -

I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play around with
the code you've written, to see what results it generates?

The issue I'm trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM & then
make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is it because
they don't know what to edit?

I'm trying to hit the latter question, which is where I think I'm trying to
do something different from what Robin & Serge discuss - there *are* people
who don't know what OSM offers them that interests them. They haven't
decided to go out for a walk yet, they haven't decided they're going to
test the waters. OSM can be intimidating. How do we make it less so?

- Jeff


-- 
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Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Richard Weait]

On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Jeff Meyer  wrote:
> > Are there any tools that can tip users to what they could do in a
> particular
> > map area?
>
> In my experience, when mappers go out and start to map, they discover
> things that interest them straight away.
>


> >   -- Fewer addresses - learn how to add
> >   -- Fewer buildings - learn how to add
> >   -- Fewer POIs - learn how to add
> >   -- POIs that would normally have buildings, but don't (e.g. schools)
> >   -- Zorro Ways - learn how to fix
> >   -- There's a park with no trails - learn how to add
> >   -- etc.
>
> That's be very cool and not *super* hard to do. Something similar is
> being done with TIGER desserts.
>
> > In general, I'm thinking of something that will help new users answer the
> > question, "How can I help?," particularly for their local 'hood without
> > sending them to too (too) many off-map web resources. Or even a
> suggestive
> > OSM Inspector?
>
> I think the best way is to do mapping parties, but we've talked about
> tools and I think a tool that would help new mappers with tasks would
> be great.
>

At the DC Hack Weekend (Feb 2012?) this was one of the functions proposed
for user activity streams.  Something that recognizes mapper progress "I
see that you've added a local gas station..." and suggests likely next
steps "did you know that you can include the address?" or goals "The
nearest OSM hospital to your home location is 3.4km away. Do you know of
another one that is nearer?".  But also that avoids turning into some sort
of cartographic-Clippy. :-)
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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

[Serge Wroclawski]

On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Jeff Meyer  wrote:
> Are there any tools that can tip users to what they could do in a particular
> map area?

In my experience, when mappers go out and start to map, they discover
things that interest them straight away.

I used to bring the OSM Cheat Sheet (a selected Features list) to
mapping parties, but there are too many features.

It might make sense to make a few cheat sheets for different kinds of
areas/features (urban, country, suburban, humanitarian).

> For example, for a given bb(zoom>some min) in a browser window, is there
> anything that says:

> - Hey, relative to other (or selected best-practice examples) areas like the
> one you're viewing, this area has:

>   -- Fewer addresses - learn how to add
>   -- Fewer buildings - learn how to add
>   -- Fewer POIs - learn how to add
>   -- POIs that would normally have buildings, but don't (e.g. schools)
>   -- Zorro Ways - learn how to fix
>   -- There's a park with no trails - learn how to add
>   -- etc.

That's be very cool and not *super* hard to do. Something similar is
being done with TIGER desserts.

> In general, I'm thinking of something that will help new users answer the
> question, "How can I help?," particularly for their local 'hood without
> sending them to too (too) many off-map web resources. Or even a suggestive
> OSM Inspector?

I think the best way is to do mapping parties, but we've talked about
tools and I think a tool that would help new mappers with tasks would
be great.

- Serge

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