Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik at zoom=19

[Martin Trautmann]

On 13-01-14 0:10, Kai Krueger wrote:

> Of cause that would put extra pressure on the renderer, but during normal
> operations (i.e. if it is not e.g. rerendering everything) it seems to still
> have a fair amount of capacity left.

I agree that z20 and more would be very helpful on occasions - and that
rendering on request would be sufficient. Some mild caching should apply
when walking around, maybe even using some preemptive computation. But I
see not need for full rendering of towns or areas.

> Also the tile throttling mechanisms seem to work sufficiently well to
> prevent any "crazy" people from e.g. trying to download all of Europe at
> z19.

Rendering might be slowed down artificially for high volume requests
from the same ip.

- Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik at zoom=19

[Jaakko Helleranta.com]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> If mappers in Europe and North America think that z18 doesn't show enough
> detail, then imagine what it must be like for mappers who are located
> nearer to the equator. Because of the Mercator projection we use, higher
> latitudes have a larger scale than places near the equator.
>

Interesting. Didn't come to think of the scale but referred to the North /
South difference meaning that in Germany/Finland/USA/etc there usually is
at least 10m between two POIs where as in Haiti and a huge number of other
counties in the "South" there isn't necessarily even 5. ... The scale issue
makes it even more obvious that especially in the South there is a clear
need for higher zoom levels.

-Jaakko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik at zoom=19

[Jaakko Helleranta.com]

Big hand to OSM.fr for offering the z19!

I've asked about this need before and will now just +1 the need for this
also at osm.org.

I would also welcome z20 -- perhaps with some request base limits
(requested urban areas -- possibility to handle in more or less similar
fashion as Mike does the http://metro.teczno.com/ extracts through Git? ...
Perhaps ideally with some calculation on density of POI(?)-type objects?

But I would say in any case that the reality as I see it builds increasing
need for "very high" zoom levels. ... I recently switched to OsmAnd on my
Android because it zooms upto level 23 -- and I now use z20 and z21 on a
regular basis. ... E.g. these objects
http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19&lat=18.51517&lon=-72.28894&layers=Bshow
names of all POIs only at z22. .. And this is not even very densely
mapped! .. Perhaps this is a difference between The North and The South?

Cheers from Haiti,
-Jaakko
http://osm.org/user/jaakkoh
--
jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +509-37-269154  *
http://go.hel.cc/about.me

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Christian Quest wrote:

> You can see what zoom level 19 looks like with Mapnik/cartocss style on
> http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19&lat=48.87206&lon=2.30069&layers=B
>
> 2013/1/13 Frederik Ramm 
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> On 13.01.2013 21:23, Gervase Markham wrote:
>>
>>> Did we ever do z=19?
>>>
>>
>> To my knowledge, no.
>>
>>
>>  Did we stop because it's a load more disk space, or
>>> something like that? If not, could we consider it?
>>>
>>
>> Given that very few areas are going to be even looked at at z19 I suspect
>> the additional disk space used would not amount to much. But the style
>> sheet we're currently using doesn't lend itself well to extension beyond
>> z18, it would require some tweaking. Nothing big though.
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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> http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquest
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Jeff Meyer]

Ah now I see... they're really upside-down teardrops or
pushpins/mapmarkers. Sorry to be so literal!

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

>  There was also
> http://www.crowdspring.com/project/2316224_openstreetmap-logo/access/which 
> mainly had pins.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 14.01.2013 20:15, schrieb Jeff Meyer:
>
> Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is
> there another place to look for past teardrops?
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions
>>
>> Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer:
>>
>>  Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask,
>>> past armpits?
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>
>
>  --
> Jeff Meyer
> Global World History Atlas
> www.gwhat.org
> j...@gwhat.org
> 206-676-2347
>  osm: Historical 
> OSM
>  / my OSM user page 
>  t: @GWHAThistory 
>  f: GWHAThistory 
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
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Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
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OSM
 / my OSM user page 
 t: @GWHAThistory 
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Simon Poole]

There was also 
http://www.crowdspring.com/project/2316224_openstreetmap-logo/access/ 
which mainly had pins.


Simon

Am 14.01.2013 20:15, schrieb Jeff Meyer:
Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - 
is there another place to look for past teardrops?



On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole > wrote:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions

Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer:

Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare
I ask, past armpits?



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 osm: Historical OSM 
 / my OSM user page 


t: @GWHAThistory 
f: GWHAThistory 





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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Brad Neuhauser]

There's some teardrop designs on this page (which is linked to from the
logo design competitions):
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Logo

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Jeff Meyer  wrote:

> Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is
> there another place to look for past teardrops?
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Logos#Logo_design_**competitions
>>
>> Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer:
>>
>>  Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask,
>>> past armpits?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> __**_
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>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Meyer
> Global World History Atlas
> www.gwhat.org
> j...@gwhat.org
> 206-676-2347
>  osm: Historical 
> OSM
>  / my OSM user page 
>  t: @GWHAThistory 
>  f: GWHAThistory 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Jeff Meyer]

Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is
there another place to look for past teardrops?


On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Logos#Logo_design_**competitions
>
> Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer:
>
>  Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask,
>> past armpits?
>>
>>
>
> __**_
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk
>



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Global World History Atlas
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OSM
 / my OSM user page 
 t: @GWHAThistory 
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Simon Poole]

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions

Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer:
Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, 
past armpits?





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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Jeff Meyer]

Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, past
armpits?

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 5:39 AM, Gregory wrote:

> When I started reading the proposal I liked the idea. Some icon to say "I
> use OSM data behind this, and I'm proud!" instead(well in addition to) the
> compulsory attribution.
>
> But the faded "teardrop" took me ages to find on the examples, and then I
> just though "what, is that OSM?".
> It doesn't remind me of OSM at all (although to be fair, it's new and not
> in use yet). But it's small, not proud.
>
> I'm also with the majority of people that disliked marker/teardrop icons
> in previous design comps. (although I did like the 'armpit' design)
> Markers are what people can add to OSM, not what it is.
>
> I like the simplicity of the page the hammer tear links to, and the
> presentation of the 3 points. Although I'm not a fan of 80% of the screen
> being a photo, I'm also not a designer.
> Has it been thought how the photos would be chossen, and when/how they
> would be updated? Is it going to be another task like Image of the Week and
> Map Task of the Month?
>
> --
> Gregory
> o...@livingwithdragons.com
> http://www.livingwithdragons.com
>
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Global World History Atlas
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206-676-2347
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OSM
 / my OSM user page 
 t: @GWHAThistory 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik at zoom=19

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 7:10 AM, Kai Krueger  wrote:

> There are by now enough densely mapped areas, where a z19 level offers a
> real advantage. At z18 too much information gets dropped in the
> decluttering
> process.
>
> At the moment, when I want to e.g. check if  something is already mapped in
> a densely mapped area, I need to switch into Potlatch where I can zoom to
> z19 (and beyond). However, if everyone does that, I suspect that would use
> up much more resources than offering a z19 rendered map.
>
> Therefore imho, offering z19 would be possible and a net benefit to OSM,
> but
> that is obviously for the server admin team to decide.
>

+1

If mappers in Europe and North America think that z18 doesn't show enough
detail, then imagine what it must be like for mappers who are located
nearer to the equator. Because of the Mercator projection we use, higher
latitudes have a larger scale than places near the equator.

For instance, here's Helsinki at z17: http://osm.org/go/0xPL4uhLl-

And here's Singapore at z18: http://osm.org/go/4IPzwvhUC--

While both maps are at different zoom levels, both show the same scale (see
scale at lower left of the map).

If it is practical to bump up the maximum zoom level to z19, then more
places near the equator can enjoy the higher detail that mappers in Europe
and North America already enjoy now.

(Of course we can all render our own maps, but you get the point.)
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Gregory]

When I started reading the proposal I liked the idea. Some icon to say "I
use OSM data behind this, and I'm proud!" instead(well in addition to) the
compulsory attribution.

But the faded "teardrop" took me ages to find on the examples, and then I
just though "what, is that OSM?".
It doesn't remind me of OSM at all (although to be fair, it's new and not
in use yet). But it's small, not proud.

I'm also with the majority of people that disliked marker/teardrop icons in
previous design comps. (although I did like the 'armpit' design)
Markers are what people can add to OSM, not what it is.

I like the simplicity of the page the hammer tear links to, and the
presentation of the 3 points. Although I'm not a fan of 80% of the screen
being a photo, I'm also not a designer.
Has it been thought how the photos would be chossen, and when/how they
would be updated? Is it going to be another task like Image of the Week and
Map Task of the Month?

-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik at zoom=19

[John Sturdy]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Kai Krueger  wrote:

> There are by now enough densely mapped areas, where a z19 level offers a
> real advantage. At z18 too much information gets dropped in the decluttering
> process.
>
> At the moment, when I want to e.g. check if  something is already mapped in
> a densely mapped area, I need to switch into Potlatch where I can zoom to
> z19 (and beyond). However, if everyone does that, I suspect that would use
> up much more resources than offering a z19 rendered map.
>
> Therefore imho, offering z19 would be possible and a net benefit to OSM, but
> that is obviously for the server admin team to decide.

+1

__John

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Re: [OSM-talk] New History tab for openstreetmap.org (beta)

[Paweł Paprota]

On 01/13/2013 04:20 PM, MonkZ wrote:

Maybe colorcoded "here was an edit in log(x) minutes" (tilewise png
transparency or css opiacity) or colorcoded "amount of edits within
this week" (tilewise png transparency or css opiacity)


I tried that in some UI experiments a few weeks ago and it looked cool.

I think it would be nice to show that the OSM map data is really alive
and such ideas as yours above are doing that, it certainly looks better
than nothing at all and the "please zoom in" prompt.

OWL API has "summary tiles" already - they provide exactly the kind of
data you mentioned (last edit + number of edits in the last X days), I
just need to rethink how they are generated/cached because they don't
scale nicely to what's in the database currently.

Anyway, I added a new issue based on your suggestion:

https://github.com/ppawel/openstreetmap-website/issues/11

Paweł

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