[OSM-talk] OSMGeoWeek
Mappers Hungry for maps? Join teachers, students, community groups, and map lovers around the world as we come together to celebrate geography and OpenStreetMap. Geography Awareness Week is November 16-22, with GIS Day on November 19. Working with National Geographic Society, we're promoting OSM in Education, with events held at colleges universities, clubs and groups around the globe. On Friday, November 21st, National Geographic will be hosting the flagship OpenStreetMap mapping party, based on this year’s theme, “The Future of Food." We're working on food related mapping projects and mapping guides ... mapping farmers markets, agricultural areas in developed and developing countries, food pantries. More details on http://osmgeoweek.org/. And we'll be launching the first version of http://teachosm.org/ (still in development), guides for bringing OSM into the classroom. We're working for these events to make a big splash, and will be developing visualizations and tools to track all the activity. Would be excellent to have you involved! Organize an event in your part of the world (at a formal school, or out in the "school of life") and we'll promote on the site, and support however we can. If you're interested to take part, then: 1) Send along info about your event http://osmgeoweek.org/events/ 2) Join TeachOSM list to hear more details https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/teachosm 3) Stay tuned for more details on the mapping projects -Mikel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fee to enter Argentina
Hi all, I just found out that Canadian, Australian and US citizens need to pay a fee to enter Argentina and this fee must be paid before entering the country. If this was mentioned before, I apologize, but it's the first I hear of it. For US citizens, info can be found here: http://embassyofargentina.us/embassyofargentina.us/en/consularsection/tramites/reciprocityfee.html See you at SOTM! -- Martijn van Exel skype: mvexel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
Paweł, On 11/04/2014 06:54 PM, Paweł Paprota wrote: > I am regarded by most people as a troll by now but even trolls can > feel pain at the sight of something placed on its head. I don't think anybody regards you as a troll. Trolls post shit to mailing lists because they like to spark protest. If everyone were to agree with a troll, the troll would be quite a failure. -- You did occasionally spark protest but I never had the impression that you were insincere in what you wrote. If everyone had agreed with you, you would certainly have been quite happy! Best Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
On 04.11.2014 19:21, Christoph Hormann wrote This is however a more general problem of the acceptance of alcohol consumption in our society as a whole, at least in Europe and the US. I can see no specific problem for OSM here. [...] +1 a useful guideline for anyone planning an OSM event. I really second this. Cheers, Michael. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
On Tuesday 04 November 2014, Michael Kugelmann wrote: > On 04.11.2014 07:02, Roland Olbricht wrote: > > You should wait for further feedback, but I sounds to me like a > > US-American, not an OSM problem. > > as a person who usually doesn't drink alcohol I second Roland. Within > all the events regarding OSM and open SW and hacking and I > joined within the last 10 ...15 years drinking no alcohol was never a > problem to me. I am in the same position (not drinking alcohol) and essentially have made the same experience. However i also realize that over the years and with age i have developed a high level of robustness against suptle pressure to participate in drinking alcohol. For younger people this can be different. This is however a more general problem of the acceptance of alcohol consumption in our society as a whole, at least in Europe and the US. I can see no specific problem for OSM here. On the contrary given the international nature of OSM i would consider particular focus on this topic misguided - there are such a large number of cultural differences that need to be dealt with - just think of food and various religious, medical and other dietary requirements, questions of adequate clothing etc. Conflicts and misunderstandings can never be fully avoided in such situations. Sensitivity, generocity and tolerance are much more helpful than fixed rules in these cases. Which is not meant to say though that the text linked by Richard Weait is not a useful guideline for anyone planning an OSM event. Just don't think alcoholic drinks are the only sensitive issue to be considered. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
Not to be a wise ass but it looks recently like OSM is setting out to solve every single problem starting from gender inequality, good practices for bookkeeping, methods for democratic voting and now alcoholic beverages and noise levels at OSM related events... At the same time Ilya Zverev's message on osmf-talk with very concrete and very actionable items is left without any response. I mean, OSM should not be a frontier for all possible controversial issues to be discussed and solved from ground up. There are solutions for those things already out there. I feel like shouting "just use the damn Google Docs for storing information and be done with it" (replace "use Google Docs" with any issues talked about here in recent weeks). Someone just take charge and let's press on! True, I am regarded by most people as a troll by now but even trolls can feel pain at the sight of something placed on its head. Paweł On Sat, Nov 1, 2014, at 23:05, Richard Weait wrote: > I read this article recently and It got me thinking. Do we devalue > community members, or potential community members who don't drink? > > A quote from the article, "When alcohol is currency, non-alcoholic > drinks are considered valueless, and the interests and needs of people > who don’t drink alcohol are easily forgotten." > > Give it a read and let's talk. Can we do better in the ways that the > article suggests? > > https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/alcohol-and-inclusivity-planning-tech-events-with-non-alcoholic-options > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
Do you think that we could take the conversation on alcohol consumption statistics to a different forum? I don't think that's adding value to our discussion of making sure that we aren't excluding folks who prefer not to drink. On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Oleksiy Muzalyev < oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote: > Here is the WHO (World Health Organization) statistics of *heavy > episodic drinking among drinkers, males and females *[1] by country for > 2010. It is in the form of interactive graph (Requires Flash player). > > [1] > http://www.who.int/gho/alcohol/consumption_patterns/heavy_episodic_drinkers/en/ > > brgds > Oleksiy > > On 04.11.2014 17:03, Elena ``of Valhalla'' wrote: > > ... levels of both binge-drinking and drunkenness ... > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
Here is the WHO (World Health Organization) statistics of /heavy episodic drinking among drinkers, males and females /[1] by country for 2010. It is in the form of interactive graph (Requires Flash player). [1] http://www.who.int/gho/alcohol/consumption_patterns/heavy_episodic_drinkers/en/ brgds Oleksiy On 04.11.2014 17:03, Elena ``of Valhalla'' wrote: ... levels of both binge-drinking and drunkenness ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
On 2014-11-04 at 15:42:09 +0100, Elena ``of Valhalla'' wrote: > litres per capita drunk aren't very indicative of the way the presence > of alcool at an event is related to social pressure at drinking; > it is a bad indicator for lots of other things, actually, > since it is expecially bad at distinguing between a population > of mostly moderate drinkers and one where people are mostly > at the extremes of the scale (either non-drinkers or heavy drinkers). See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_culture#Binge_drinking "The highest levels of both binge-drinking and drunkenness are found in the Nordic countries, UK, Ireland, Slovenia and Latvia. This contrasts with the low levels found in France, Italy, Lithuania, Poland and Romania – for example, binge-drinking more than twice in the last month was reported by 31% of boys and 33% of girls in Ireland, but in comparison 12%-13% of boys and 5%-7% of girls in France and Hungary." where many binge-drinking countries are lower that most non-binge-drinking contries in the alcohol consumption table on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption#WHO_statistics (unluckily, the ref points to a broken link, however) -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
On 2014-11-04 at 15:03:59 +0100, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote: > WHO data [1] does not corroborate it. Both countries have comparable > litres per capita per year. > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption litres per capita drunk aren't very indicative of the way the presence of alcool at an event is related to social pressure at drinking; it is a bad indicator for lots of other things, actually, since it is expecially bad at distinguing between a population of mostly moderate drinkers and one where people are mostly at the extremes of the scale (either non-drinkers or heavy drinkers). I also feel that it is probably more of a problem in some cultures than in others: at all of the FLOSS social events I've been in Italy alcool was plenty, but the emphasis was on food [1]_ and a significant minority (me included) didn't drink without receiving any comment. .. [1] here there may have been some discrimination, in that vegetarians were provided for, but do suffer some social stigma. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
I looked at the data of The World Health Organization (WHO), a specialized agency of the United Nations. It is the second list. brgds Oleksiy On 04.11.2014 15:23, Tom Hughes wrote: > On 04/11/14 14:03, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote: > >> WHO data [1] does not corroborate it. Both countries have comparable >> litres per capita per year. >> >> [1] >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption > > Well are you looking at row 1 or row 23 because both are apparently > for the US but they indicate radically different consumption levels... > > Tom > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
On 04/11/14 14:03, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote: WHO data [1] does not corroborate it. Both countries have comparable litres per capita per year. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption Well are you looking at row 1 or row 23 because both are apparently for the US but they indicate radically different consumption levels... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
liters per capita may have correlation with "tech events are too focused on alcohol" - but it is not enough to consider it as a good measurement of this problem. 2014-11-04 15:03 GMT+01:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev : > WHO data [1] does not corroborate it. Both countries have comparable > litres per capita per year. > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption > > brgds > Oleksiy > > On 04.11.2014 14:33, Kathleen Danielson wrote: > > ... > > As an aside, since I am an American I cannot say whether this is just > > an American problem. I will say that I also find many tech events in > > Berlin are focused around alcohol, but perhaps the events I've > > attended have been anomalies. > > ... > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
WHO data [1] does not corroborate it. Both countries have comparable litres per capita per year. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption brgds Oleksiy On 04.11.2014 14:33, Kathleen Danielson wrote: > ... > As an aside, since I am an American I cannot say whether this is just > an American problem. I will say that I also find many tech events in > Berlin are focused around alcohol, but perhaps the events I've > attended have been anomalies. > ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
Hi Richard, Thanks so much for sharing this piece. I'm actually friends with the author and she's gotten really great feedback. I'm pleased to see it showing up in our community. I definitely think this is something we can be better about. As someone who has helped organize SOTM-US in the past I think it's absolutely something where we have room to improve. As an event organizer, I am 100% a part of the problem, so I want to personally apologize to anyone who has felt uncomfortable or less welcome at an event because of alcohol, and a lack of ample non-alcoholic choices. We can do better. That piece makes these points far better than I could, so I won't repeat what we've read, but I think that the tech community (which OSM frequently mirrors, in social respects), is slowly becoming more aware of the need to make events more inclusive, and lessening the reliance on alcohol is one important way to do that. As an aside, since I am an American I cannot say whether this is just an American problem. I will say that I also find many tech events in Berlin are focused around alcohol, but perhaps the events I've attended have been anomalies. Best, Kathleen On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > I read this article recently and It got me thinking. Do we devalue > community members, or potential community members who don't drink? > > A quote from the article, "When alcohol is currency, non-alcoholic > drinks are considered valueless, and the interests and needs of people > who don’t drink alcohol are easily forgotten." > > Give it a read and let's talk. Can we do better in the ways that the > article suggests? > > > https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/alcohol-and-inclusivity-planning-tech-events-with-non-alcoholic-options > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol
On 04.11.2014 07:02, Roland Olbricht wrote: You should wait for further feedback, but I sounds to me like a US-American, not an OSM problem. as a person who usually doesn't drink alcohol I second Roland. Within all the events regarding OSM and open SW and hacking and I joined within the last 10 ...15 years drinking no alcohol was never a problem to me. One thing: sometimes you get a voucher for a beer or something but there has never been a problem to get a noalcoholic beeverage instead for that voucher. Maybe the request not to drink a beer but to order a nonalcoholic beeverage has some relation to self-confidence? Cheers, Michael. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] overpass-api.de: Emergency rollback
Dear all, > the Overpass API instance on overpass-api.de will receive in a few hours > a data rollback to 22nd Oct 2014. This means a shutdown for two to three > hours. Then it will catch up from 22nd October to recent data. The server is back to normal operations. Thank you for your patience. Best regards, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
