Re: [OSM-talk] a, b and c.tile.openstreetmap.org refer to the same server?

[Florian Lohoff]

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 01:03:32AM +0200, Stefan Baebler wrote:
> 18. maj 2015 10.30 pop. je oseba "Andrew Guertin" 
> napisala:
> > Whether the new limits are sufficiently high for OSM I haven't
> investigated enough to answer.
> 
> Browser limits, network speeds and screen resolutions all increased in the
> recent years, but tile size stayed at 256*256.
> 
> To put this in perspective, currently trending 1920*1080 needs 40-54 tiles
> for a full screen map, whereas 1024*768 (most popular in 2009) only needed
> 12-20.
> Source: http:// www.screenresolution.org/
>  + quick calculation.
> 
> Average tile complexity also increased somewhat, increasing their average
> size in kB.
> 
> Using a,b,c hostname aliases only increases initial DNS resolution time.

No - The initial limit for browser was 4 connections with HTTP
pipelineing. When introducing the a/b/c hostnames you triple your number
of connections to 12 - So you can have 12 simultanous open connections.

This is a crude hack needed to work around a limit introduced i think in
Netscape 1.

In the End it always stays a hack. You basically open a "massive" amount
of connections (Which harms NAT by flooding the connection table) and
download tiles in parallel e.g. interleaving your data. This brings
you advantages when on a good connection. I have a 384Kbit/s connection
at home. I'd rather like to have fewer connections and a nicer
algorithm which tiles to load first e.g. center to edge in circles. Most
of the time i would not need to wait for all tiles to arrive before
beeing able to make use of the visual of the map. Now i am waiting
sometimes minutes until a previous uncached area of the map
gets loaded.

HTTP/2 will solve some of those problems e.g. the tcp handshake
necessary to open the 12 connections as all connections can be
interleaved into the same HTTP/2 tcp connection. 

This whole issue is a broken mess which gets worse with every iteration.
The client should be the one to decide how many connections or in HTTP/2
speak parallel transfers not the application/implementation. Decisions
should be made based on latency e.g. when a tile loads in 3ms but your
request round trip is 100ms you might want to request 30 tiles at once.
For me downloading a tile takes something between 200 and 1000ms whereas
my round trip time on an empty link is ~50ms. When you now use the same
scheme and request 30 tiles at once it'll take 30 seconds for the first
tile to be displayed. When you request only 2-3 tiles i'll have the
first parts of the map be displayed after 2-3 seconds, beeing able to
watch the map build up. 

There is no "one size fits all" and OSM could use some love in terms
of bandwidth preservation, caching, well thought algorithms.

For example: Use Firebug to investigate the amount of data transferred
for a simple login e.g. OAuth on the main osm.org website. For me this
takes 20-30 seconds for getting an OAuth login. My guess is excessive
javascript librarys not beeing cachable or only for the session.

> This hack IMO still serves as a relatively cheap performance boost... until
> HTTP 2 is widely used.

Its not performance. It only gives you performance when on a good
connection. It makes it worse when on a slow connection.

You are trading link saturation vs. latency.

Flo
-- 
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 We need to self-defense - GnuPG/PGP enable your email today!


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Re: [OSM-talk] iD name suggestion index - asking non-English-speaking mappers to review

[John Firebaugh]

Over the weekend I merged all outstanding pull requests. These changes will
get picked up automatically in the next release of iD.

Thanks for the contributions, please keep them coming.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Osmand+ question

[John F. Eldredge]

Well, that explains the wavering. I have owned several smartphones, of several 
different brands, but have yet to see one where the magnetic compass sensor 
worked reliably. Fortunately, if you are moving, the direction of travel can be 
deduced from GPS data.


On May 19, 2015 11:09:41 AM CDT, Cristian Consonni  
wrote:
> 2015-05-19 16:49 GMT+02:00 Dominik George :
> > On 19.05.2015 16:40, John F. Eldredge wrote:
> >> What is the meaning of the pie-wedge shape that extends out from
> the
> >> dot marking your current location? The direction in which it
> extends
> >> outward changes occasionally. Does it point to the cell tower you
> are
> >> currently connected to?
> >
> > It shows the direction in which the device is "looking", if the
> magnetic
> > compass is working properly.
> 
> Dominik is right.
> Also note that you can change the orientation of the map with the icon
> in the top left corner.
> 
> C
> 
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-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com (615) 299-6451
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive 
out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Osmand+ question

[Cristian Consonni]

2015-05-19 16:49 GMT+02:00 Dominik George :
> On 19.05.2015 16:40, John F. Eldredge wrote:
>> What is the meaning of the pie-wedge shape that extends out from the
>> dot marking your current location? The direction in which it extends
>> outward changes occasionally. Does it point to the cell tower you are
>> currently connected to?
>
> It shows the direction in which the device is "looking", if the magnetic
> compass is working properly.

Dominik is right.
Also note that you can change the orientation of the map with the icon
in the top left corner.

C

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Re: [OSM-talk] iD name suggestion index - asking non-English-speaking mappers to review

[Paul Hartmann]

On 16.05.2015 20:51, nebulon42 wrote:

Another thing. Is this still active? There hasn't been much activity
lately and it has also open pull requests that could have been merged
already. I'm just asking because I spotted some things to correct, but I
want to make sure that I do not waste my time because a pull request
might not get merged.


I second that. We could use this index for JOSM, but unfortunately the 
reported issues don't get fixed and the overall quality is not good 
enough at the moment.


It would be nice if the original authors or someone else would maintain 
this project.


Paul



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Re: [OSM-talk] Osmand+ question

[Dominik George]

On 19.05.2015 16:40, John F. Eldredge wrote:
> What is the meaning of the pie-wedge shape that extends out from the
> dot marking your current location? The direction in which it extends
> outward changes occasionally. Does it point to the cell tower you are
> currently connected to?

It shows the direction in which the device is "looking", if the magnetic
compass is working properly.

-nik



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[OSM-talk] Osmand+ question

[John F. Eldredge]

What is the meaning of the pie-wedge shape that extends out from the dot 
marking your current location? The direction in which it extends outward 
changes occasionally. Does it point to the cell tower you are currently 
connected to?

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com (615) 299-6451
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive 
out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Re: [OSM-talk] iD name suggestion index - asking non-English-speaking mappers to review

[Warin]

Opps... Your correct John
It is a term used in common speech for fuel in Australia (American = gas).

On 19/05/2015 1:30 AM, John F. Eldredge wrote:
Is there a company in Australia named Petrol, or is it simply the term 
for the fuel? As I understand it, the question is whether Petrol is 
valid as a company name (apparently


On May 17, 2015 10:53:07 PM CDT, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 17/05/2015 3:57 PM, Stefan Baebler wrote:


I see "Petrol" is categorized under discardedNames, but is is in
fact a valid full name of company with chain of gas pumps in
Slovenia (www.petrol.si ).

Are there many other similar cases that would make it worthwhile
to make this functionality location-aware, dependant on regions
(countries, continents, languages)?


Petrol is in common use in Australia... an 'English' speaking
country.


16. maj 2015 11.08 pop. je oseba "Mateusz Konieczny"
mailto:matkoni...@gmail.com>> napisala:

On Sat, 16 May 2015 20:07:00 +0200
Michał Brzozowski mailto:www.ha...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> I ask non-English speakers to find anything they are sure
it's a noun
> and not a proper name. name-suggestions.json specifies name
> suggestions and filter.json specifies what "non-names"
should be
> filtered.

Sklep spożywczy (Polish for grocery store)
Apteka (Polish for pharmacy)

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--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com (615) 299-6451
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate 
cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Portal for users/casual mappers (Re: Tagging FOR the renderer)

[Simon Poole]

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Hash: SHA512

I'm roughly just outside the 1000 largest mappers and am, in my experience, at 
least not atypical for mappers of that rank. With exception of building 
outlines pre - survey and some updates I'm doing to old stuff in Zurich that's 
about the limit of arm chairing and mechanical edits for me. Yes there are a 
few mappers up there with the bots but I don't believe that they are 
particularly relevant.

On 19. Mai 2015 01:57:31 MESZ, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
>On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>>
>> You must have misunderstood something there, the top 50'000 (roughly
>10%
>> of all) or so mappers have contributed essentially all (roughly 95%)
>> data to OSM. The long tail is not unimportant, but from a pure volume
>> point of view OSM is very dependent on its core contributors. Not
>that
>> this is a surprise or different than any other similar enterprise.
>>
>
>Keep in mind the type of contribution is different.
>
>This year I edited 250,000 trees with a bad tag.  That's a huge number
>of
>nodes, but not a significant contribution of knowledge.
>The "long tail" editors on the other hand may be supplying data in
>unique
>ways requiring local knowledge.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Portal for users/casual mappers (Re: Tagging FOR the renderer)

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 19/05/2015, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
> On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>>
>> You must have misunderstood something there, the top 50'000 (roughly 10%
>> of all) or so mappers have contributed essentially all (roughly 95%)
>> data to OSM. The long tail is not unimportant, but from a pure volume
>> point of view OSM is very dependent on its core contributors. Not that
>> this is a surprise or different than any other similar enterprise.
>>
>
> Keep in mind the type of contribution is different.
>
> This year I edited 250,000 trees with a bad tag.  That's a huge number of
> nodes, but not a significant contribution of knowledge.
> The "long tail" editors on the other hand may be supplying data in unique
> ways requiring local knowledge.

It's also likely that prolific contributors will work on mostly
armchair-mappable stuff, while the long tail will just add a
particular POI they care about. So once the initial basemap is "done"
by big contributors, I expect the number of changesets (but not the
amount of data) to shift toward long tail contributors.

Arguably, the long tail is what crowdsourcing is all about. But to
make it possible, we first need a huge amount of data, which comes
from top contributors. Both contributor profiles are necessary for
OSM.

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[OSM-talk] Bing Imagery update (was: Bing coverage dropped dramatically in Taiwan)

[Hsiao-Ting Yu [:littlebtc]]

Follow-up:

Today Bing updated its imagery to g=3515. A lot of area in Taiwan is back,
especially Taipei - though some imagery in central Taipei is captured in
about 2005 :O

I don't know how the case changes in other regions. Take a look at the Bing
satellite today!

2015-04-11 17:59 GMT+08:00 maning sambale :

> Same case reported in the Philippines.
>
> cheers,
>
> Maning Sambale (mobile)
> On Apr 11, 2015 12:20 AM, "Hsiao-Ting Yu [:littlebtc]" <
> sst.dre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For mappers in Taiwan, currently the Bing imagery is the only way to draw
>> details in Taiwan, since only Bing has good zoom 18+ coverage in Taiwan.
>>
>> However since the imagery updated this week the coverage dramatically
>> dropped. Though some region had been updated,  a lot of areas, like Taipei,
>> Miaoli, and Kaohsiung, all zoom 14+ images were disappeared. It is
>> frustrating.
>>
>> This issue had been lasted for several days, and we had reported the
>> imagery lost in the Bing maps report form. Is there any other ways we can
>> report and get this fixed?
>>
>> --
>> Littlebtc / 笨笨的小B / 小犬 (Xiaoquan)
>> http://blog.littleb.tc
>>
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