Re: [OSM-talk] FOSM Elections - We need representatives that can represent and respect the diversity of OSM, maintain his dynamism
sent from a phone > Am 01.12.2015 um 21:29 schrieb Pierre Béland : > > I am not on the FOSM discussion and cannot follow all the discussions you can, it's public: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/ cheers Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FOSM Elections - We need representatives that can represent and respect the diversity of OSM, maintain his dynamism
Hi Martin, are you sure ? I tried to subscribe OSMF list 10 days ago, I received : Your request to the osmf-talk mailing list Subscription request has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Members of the OSMF will be automatically added to this list" Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at: osmf-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org I think the list is reserved to OSMF members. On 02/12/2015 08:35, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > sent from a phone > >> Am 01.12.2015 um 21:29 schrieb Pierre Béland : >> >> I am not on the FOSM discussion and cannot follow all the discussions > > you can, it's public: > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/ > > cheers > Martin > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FOSM Elections - We need representatives that can represent and respect the diversity of OSM, maintain his dynamism
On Wednesday 02 December 2015, augustindo...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi Martin, are you sure ? I tried to subscribe OSMF list 10 days ago, > I received : > [...] Writing to the list is reserved to members, reading it is open to the public (via the link provided by Martin). -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Community Conference
I’ve heard from a few people thinking of organizing an OpenStreetMap conference focused on the community, very different from what SOTM has become. I’m curious what people here think of the idea? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Community Conference
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Steve Coast wrote: > I’ve heard from a few people thinking of organizing an OpenStreetMap > conference focused on the community, very different from what SOTM has > become. > > I’m curious what people here think of the idea? As someone currently planning a more community-focused SOTM US, I'd be interested in hearing what sort of changes you would propose to the existing SOTM structure. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Community Conference
Hi Steve, Am 2015-12-02 um 22:23 schrieb Steve Coast: > I’ve heard from a few people thinking of organizing an OpenStreetMap > conference focused on the community, very different from what SOTM has become. I have counted 20 talks by companies and universities out of 40 talks at all at SotM 2014. (You can argue if HOT is a company or not ;-) ) https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2014 There were 19 talks by larger companies at SotM-EU 2014 (Small companies like Omniscale have not been counted as companies). There were 39 talks in total. http://www.sotm-eu.org/en/program Conclusion: Both conferences had almost the same ratio of commercial and community talks. Maybe the SotM-EU had a more community-like image because lots of the "commercial talks" were also topics the community is interested in. I doubt if talks like this "OSM on Wheels" are very interesting. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SotM_2014_session:_OSM_on_wheels I filmed the German version at FOSSGIS 2015 and I found it – sorry – boring. A conference can become a real community conference if it is located at the center of the community, i.e. in Europe. Having a conference at a remote location, i.e. Buenos Aires, might be good to boost the local communities but it is not profitable. I think that organizing a second conference which just tries to be a competitor of SotM is a waste of time and workforce. Every conference needs to be organized (venue, catering, program committee, website, registration etc.). Having a second conference just takes power away from the volunteers organizing SotM. (I do not want to say that regional conferences like SotM Scotland or SotM-EU or FOSSGIS Conference are a wast of time – I myself helped at two of these conferences) If the focus of SotM is wrong, it should be changed. It is the power of the program committee which decides which talks will be held. It would be better to join SotM Working Group and/or program committee to make things change. Maybe there are too much company employees member of the program committee? Best regards Michael -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten ausgenommen) I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"
Le 25/11/2015 13:10, Dave F. a écrit : > How do you perceive these "dangers" will manifest themselves? > > Dave F. > Dear OpenStreetMap Community members, Let me first apologize for writing about topics that usually do not need to be considered by those who only care about improving this wonderful common good that is OpenStreetMap. Unfortunately, it has become necessary because there seems to be a potentially serious threat on what OpenStreetMap is and will be. Some might consider this issue to be more specifically appropriate for the OSMF-talk list, as those with a right to vote on the current election must be there. However, it is not of concern only to the registered members of the OSM Foundation, as it might end up impacting the whole of OSM. It also happens that I have stopped renewing my membership to the OSMF after an election where a candidate was excluded from the vote because his views on a controversial subject (related to license change) were strongly different from those of the majority of the previous Board. Note that Mr. Maron was already a member of this outgoing Board, that had a conception of basic democracy different from mine, according to which it should have been up to the voters not to vote for a candidate if they didn't agree with his views. So, anyway, I cannot write to that list. A recent exchange with some mappers not familiar with what goes on in HOT US Inc., as well as some of the emails I read on the osmf-talk web archive, have made me aware that it could be useful to summarize how I view it after being involved in many crisis activations since Haiti 2010 earthquake, before HOT US Inc. or the h...@openstreetmap.org mailing list even existed. This might also be seen as another attempt to answer Frederik's question on osmf-talk : “What should OSMF *not* learn from HOT?” (Even though I see now that Rod has answered that quite well). In short, it seems that HOT US Inc., besides its officially started purpose, and certainly because it views these secondary purposes as necessary to accomplish it, aims to collect money from donors willing to support the « humanitarian » use of OSM, and exercise control over the ways people contribute to these uses. Its reality in practice is thus in direct opposition to the « support – not control - OSM » motto of the OSMF. A lesson I remember from my high school philosophy teacher is that you shouldn't judge a foreign culture based on your values, but on its own. If I try to apply this guide to HOT US Inc., based on what I think I know of some US values, that some might even be tempted to consider universal, or at least broadly admired and shared, here is what I find : - Democracy : Voting members of HOT US are selected through a strict cooptation mechanism, with constraints sufficient to ensure that the initial members keep their dominating influence. This can also be observed in the result of the votes. Yet some leaders of HOT US sometimes present themselves as legitimate representatives of the broader community of OSM/HOT contributors, which is false by construction. - Free speech : As you probably know, this is protected by the First Amendment to the US Constitution. Yet in several current cases, it appears that prominent and legally responsible members of HOT US Inc. consider that some provisions of the « HOT Code of Conduct » should prevail on this US constitutional right. You may also have noticed that I've been submitted to a priori moderation on the h...@openstreetmap.org mailing list, without notification, and without justification by at least an example of an inappropriate email, when I became aware of it and asked for a reason. So the most likely explanation is that Mr. Maron (who had silently setup this moderation) must have been afraid that I could ask questions about his conflicts of interest or the cronyism around him, as I had done on an internal list before. As he is also moderator of several of the most important OSM mailing lists, including this “talk” list, this example of abusing of his moderator role to protect his personal interest could be already in itself worrying to all those in the OSM community who think that the possibility to exchange views freely is necessary in a sound community, as now everyone would have to worry about exposing oneself to such a measure before writing to the lists. - Rejection of public lies : Several communications of HOT US Inc., both internal and external, are in contradiction with facts. They sometimes combine with the next item, ... - Prohibition of theft : … to take undeserved ownership and credit on things done by others (and in particular numerous voluntary mappers around the World – most of them in non-English speaking parts, or, for examples on more specific points, what was done with humanitarian drones, or some satellite imagery to support disaster mapping), and present them as if they were HOT US's, to justify asking for undue recognition or funding (including from the pub
Re: [OSM-talk] Community Conference
Hi,
On 12/02/2015 10:23 PM, Steve Coast wrote:
> I’ve heard from a few people thinking of organizing an OpenStreetMap
> conference focused on the community, very different from what SOTM has become.
There are many different ways in which one could focus on the community.
In Germany, we've noticed that many community members abhor the term
"conference" because it sounds too self-important, and we've for years
been toying with the idea of holding something like an "OSM summer camp"
or "OSM BBQ weekend" or whatever, where you can bring your family and a
tent. It hasn't been tried yet though, and events like that can really
only be held on a local (at most: national) scale because they are (and
must be) low-budget to attract everyone. An event like that could
conceivably run with very little sponsorship, if any.
(Sponsor-funded scholarships for travel and accomodation are, in my
opinion, not a suitable replacement for making the event affordable for
its target group. But of course, as I said, an affordable event can by
definition never be a global event, due to travel costs alone.)
Doing special events focused on the developer community is also an
interesting option.
But like Michael said, I wouldn't give up on SOTM too quickly; if we can
reach a consensus that we want the conference to be participatory rather
than representative, we could very well make SOTM that community conference.
In my view, the annual Chaos Communication Congress is a prime example
of a good community conference despite its huge size; while it certainly
moves a ton of money behind the scenes, it is affordable and has no
visible commercial influence - the overwhelming part of the work is done
by volunteers. The conference is meticulously run, but not
"professionalised". Many of the volunteers running that conference
meanwhile have much more experience than anyone you could hire for the
job but still they're volunteers.
A less positive example from a similar sphere is FOSS4G; I am
peripherally involved in the FOSS4G 2016 planning and this conference,
while having the same humble origins as SOTM, has meanwhile evolved into
a behemoth where only big companies can afford to sponsor and only those
on an expense ticket can afford paying the entrance fee. FOSS4G still
involves a lot of volunteers behind the scenes, but it is meanwhile a
conference for professionals.
I think there's a dangerous metric in the minds of many people, where a
conference is better if it has a niftier web page, a more exclusive
conference centre, or attracts more visitors or more sponsorship money.
Volunteer participation is often viewed as a sad necessity ("of course
it would be better to pay professionals but they probably can't afford it").
If we manage to deconstruct that metric, and define what really makes a
good conference for us, then we can have a good conference right there
in SOTM.
(While at the same time leaving ample room for good local events.)
Of course, if we make SOTM too much community focused, there's always
the danger of someone starting their own OSM-for-businesses conference
and calling it "OSM+" or so ;)
Bye
Frederik
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Community Conference
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Michael Reichert wrote: > A conference can become a real community conference if it is located at > the center of the community, i.e. in Europe. Having a conference at a > remote location, i.e. Buenos Aires, might be good to boost the local > communities but it is not profitable. is this actually data supported? did we notice a measurable increase in user contributions from Argentina, or a better community engagement? I would like to consider if a "conference" like SOTM is still the right thing to do. We just organized a small get-together without calling it officially a conference (centered around un-conference, spontaneity and being all in the same location), and, surprise, about 50 people did show up for the event. Never in the history of OSM in Italy so many people attended. -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Community Conference
Ian Dees wrote: > As someone currently planning a more community-focused SOTM US, I'd > be interested in hearing what sort of changes you would propose to > the existing SOTM structure. It's a great question to ask; and I realise this may sound a little contrarian, but I actually find myself enjoying SOTM-US more than SOTM. SOTM-US is full of people shipping things, and "shipping things" is the OSM spirit. Whether they're corporate or not doesn't really bother me. SOTM tends to have a greater proportion of academia and unviable hobbyist projects, which arouses the 2007 militant OSMer in me: "yes, this is all very clever, but what are you actually _doing_ with it?". That isn't to denigrate the organisational effort of the SOTM crew, who conjure miracles out of nothing; nor to say SOTM-US is perfect. (_Way_ too much Node.JS at SOTM-US. ;) ) And SOTM-EU in Karlsruhe was neither SOTM-US nor SOTM, but was perhaps the finest OSM conference I've attended. But I would really caution against contrasting "corporate" and "community". cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Community-Conference-tp5861569p5861575.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Community Conference
> Steve wrote: >I’ve heard from a few people thinking of organizing an OpenStreetMap conference focused on the community, very different from what SOTM has become. > >I’m curious what people here think of the idea? > Hi Steve, It's good to hear from you again and thank you for raising the profile of State of the Map. For those who have not yet seen we (I currently lead the SotM group) have just announced the location and date for SotM 2016. Check out our blog post and the new website where you can sign up for our newsletter: https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2015/12/02/here-comes-sotm-2016/ http://2016.stateofthemap.org/ The State of the Map working group has taken on a lot of new members in the last 12 months (no longer are we reliant on just one or two people). I am delighted to be able to lead a team that includes members of previous SotM, SotM EU and SotM US groups. We can also pull on the expertise of SotM LatAm members when required and have members who have included other events such as SotM Scotland (I single this one out as it's format is very different from other SotMs). We are also building better ties with HOT Summit. As the SotM group is essentially a re-boot (we all know that no SotM occurred/is planned in 2015), my primary focus for this year is to ensure that the group is built back up and that the 2016 conference goes ahead without any hiccups. All looks good so far. With the foundations in place the group is able to start thinking more strategically about "what is SotM". In the blog post and the upcoming sponsorship pack, you will see reference to our aim of bringing (1) data contributors, (2) data users and (3) core/tool-chain software developers together. This is a first look a the aim of State of the Map and the people it serves. We recognise that at a very high level the members of the OpenStreetMap community will belong to one (or more) of these 3 groups (or in the case of academia, have an interest in studying one or more of these groups). Our aim is therefore to be able to bring these groups together in an environment that enables them to celebrate the successes of OpenStreetMap, share ideas and plan for the future. Working together we benefit each other and ultimately the OpenStreetMap project. As with all things the challenge is getting the balance between the groups and the size of the conference right. Some will prefer small gatherings, whilst others enjoy the larger events. You will have noticed in the OSM US elections discussions about whether bigger (of which group??) and better is working for the community and we are very much listening to the views of others as they are shared. Can I encourage you to share your views too. If you explain your thinking in the form of "The conference should be more focused on the community as this will lead to ..." this will greatly help and I can see what can be done to help. Feel free to encourage the others who you have been speaking to, to share their views on this too. Best wishes, *Rob* P.s There is already a placeholder for a call for venues for 2017 on the OSM wiki and I have scheduled some time in our plan to look again at the function of SotM. We want this to work for the community and for OpenStreetMap so please do share your views with us either via this mailing list, via t...@stateofthemap.org, or directly to myself on this email address. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Community Conference
Fantastic comments so far - it's super to hear people thinking about what is best as getting SotM and the OSM community right will benefit us all :-D >Michael wrote: >Maybe there are too much company employees member of the program committee? Great concern :-) Just to let you know, the 3 groups concept that I discussed in my previous email applies equally to the SotM working group members. We've shared which group we fall in to and will pay attention to this during the selection process. The stressful bit for me is that everybody always leaves it to the last minute before submitting their talk ideas!! :-P >Frederik wrote: >I think there's a dangerous metric in the minds of many people, where a >conference is better if it has a niftier web page, a more exclusive >conference centre, or attracts more visitors or more sponsorship money. Thanks Fred. This picks up on a few emails we've shared between ourselves over the last few months. So that you're updated with the latest: for SotM 2016 we have selected a university as it provides great value for money compared to the large number of flashy business venues in Brussels. The working group understands that the purpose of sponsorship is there to cover as much of the costs as possible so that we can get the ticket price as low as possible. This is always difficult to get 100% right because ticket sales and sponsorship is often skewed with most of it coming in during the last few weeks. The planning for SotM starts months in advance (I would love to be announcing 18 months in advance so that the regional SotMs have time to plan without having to worry about date clashes). Any surplus will go back in to the OSMF. I'm glad you spotted our nifty website. We have some highly skilled designers volunteering their time and experience this year - however if there are members reading this who feel a nifty website puts them off please speak up. We aim to maintain a community feel during the conference so if you feel this is not reflected in the website then it would be good to know this. >Richard >But I would really caution against contrasting "corporate" and "community". +1 It's all about the getting the balance right. Keep the comments coming folks - this is great stuff :-) Best, *Rob* ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] iD 1.8.1 release candidate with IE11 & Edge support
Hey everyone, Just wanted to send a quick note that I’ve prepared a new version of iD that supports Internet Explorer 11 and Edge browsers (finally!). I have only tested these browsers through vmware, so I would really like to get some more mappers to try them out and let me know if there are any major issues before I push this new version of iD to the main openstreetmap site. If all is well, we can enable iD for IE users nest week. iD 1.8.1 release candidate is available for testing here: https://openstreetmap.us/iD/release As always, we welcome feedback and bug reports on the Github issue tracker: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues Try it out and let me know what you think, thanks! Bryan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
