Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct
On 13/07/2016 09:25, Éric Gillet wrote: > I will summarise what course of action I think would be appropriate to > follow : > > * It's not clear whether AE CoC terms are rules or simply guidelines > o As Frederik said, rules should be written well in order to have > the legitimacy to be used strictly (ODbL, Contributor's Terms etc.) > o Guidelines should contain, well, guidelines that should not be > used as a direct basis for reversal. They could be used as part > as an argument, but just using one item should not be grounds > for reversal by DWG. > * In consequence, a choice have to be made : > o Either overhaul the current AE CoC, submit it to RFC/voting and > use it as a ruleset for contribution after a consensus is reached > o Use the current AE CoC as guidelines, not strict rules. Should an RFC + vote be made on this? Or is there a simpler process to try to settle (for at least one/few years) this issue? Because clarifying the AECoC about the law vs guidelines philosophy would require a reasonable amount of legitimacy (there is no hope of true consensus here) to edit the AECoC in a way making it clear that one of these philosophy is chosen. Currently we have "guidelines that must be followed at all times" which is ambiguous. > So what do you suggest : > > * Do one changeset by feature you're editing, where you both correct > the original subject of the error and othoner problems ? (Very slow, > but higher quality at the end) > * Do both the search and replace and correct other errors on multiple > other errors "completely manually" in the same changeset ? (Time > efficient but slow, good quality of data, but at risk of reversal of > the whole changeset) > * Correct "automatically" what can be automatically corrected, and > rely on QA tools to spot the other errors ? (Time efficient, quick, > but leave other errors untouched) > > These three approaches seems valid to me, but it doesn't seem to be the > case for everyone. Nice analysis, warning about the second approach because it makes harder to review that the automated changes were correctly executed. While also making hard to review the manual changes as they are buried in the many automated ones. These make a reviewability (and therefore quality) issue that should be avoided. A fourth approach to fix that would be to have a first automated edit changeset and then a manual fix changeset for the other errors. A variant would be to reverse the order: fix the other errors first when inspecting the selected/searched objects to be automatically edited. And then doing the automated edit. Cheers, -- tuxayo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v2.41.0
Dear all, Today, v2.41.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released. Changes include * More consistent fonts for POI labels * Less saturated stadiums * Rendering obelisks and dog parks * An updated list of font packages * Cleaning up the font list * Rewriting the road colours script for easier changes * Various bug fixes Thanks to all the contributors, including jdhoek, a new contributor. For a full list of commits, see https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.40.0...v2.41.0 As always, we welcome any bug reports at https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] highway=crossing tags removed in changeset.
Hi, Looks like somebody making automated edits without checking by survey what they are doing... I think it should be reverted. Kind regards, Alejandro Suárez On 13 July 2016 at 18:40, Dave F wrote: > Hi > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40612462 > > In the above changeset user Wynndale has taken nodes with > highway=crossing, crossing=no & removed the highway tags: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2714463033/history > > I'm unsure why the nodes originally had crossing=no, but I think removing > the highway tag makes them even more inaccurate. > > As can be seen I left a message, but not relieved a reply even though he's > made further edits. > > I think the changeset should be reverted, but opinions welcomed. > > Dave F. > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] highway=crossing tags removed in changeset.
Hi http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40612462 In the above changeset user Wynndale has taken nodes with highway=crossing, crossing=no & removed the highway tags: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2714463033/history I'm unsure why the nodes originally had crossing=no, but I think removing the highway tag makes them even more inaccurate. As can be seen I left a message, but not relieved a reply even though he's made further edits. I think the changeset should be reverted, but opinions welcomed. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
El Miércoles 13. julio 2016 13.06.45 Lester Caine escribió: > On 13/07/16 11:44, Dave F wrote: > > How about musical notation? We could sing our parcels to their > > destinations. ;-) > > Or even more radical ... just use numbers for time and location :) Somebody had that idea already. http://what2numbers.org/ -- Iván Sánchez Ortega ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
Hi, On 07/13/2016 12:37 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > On 2016-07-13 12:24, Dave F wrote: > >> >> On 13/07/2016 11:10, Frederik Ramm wrote: >>> >>> W3W is a coordinate system... >> >> I fail to see how it can even be described as that as there is no >> coordination. The address of one block has no relation to adjacent ones. >> > Agreed - it's not a coordinate system, it's an addressing system, i.e. a > way of encapsulating a location in a convenient manifestation. I think we might not be understanding each other. Dave says "coordinates need coordination" which makes you conclude "see, if it's not a coordinate system it must be an addressing system". I agree with neither. Really, please don't buy the w3w propaganda in this respect. An addressing system usually is hierarchical - country, then perhaps a state or district or postcode, the a city, then perhaps a neighbourhood, a street, a number, and perhaps an apartment or level number. There are differences but you can usually tell from addresses where they are, approximately, and if you can't pinpoint it right away you can follow the hierarchy (go to the town then ask for the street etc.). You can tell if two addresses are near each other. There may be brokers that tell you where on earth an address is (geocoding systems) but they are not a mandatory part of resolving the address. There are so many things that humans associate with an address, and w3w tries to piggyback on that by calling their coordinate system (or, if you want, their map projection) an addressing system, but it's not, or at least not more than the "addressing system" of lat/lon/ele is. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 13/07/16 11:44, Dave F wrote: > On 13/07/2016 10:03, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: >> If written/spoken language is the barrier, maybe we should try >> something more cross-cultural, like signwriting language. >> http://signbank.org/iswa/cat_1.html what3hands anybody? > > How about musical notation? We could sing our parcels to their > destinations. ;-) Or even more radical ... just use numbers for time and location :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 13/07/16 12:44, Dave F wrote: On 13/07/2016 10:03, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: If written/spoken language is the barrier, maybe we should try something more cross-cultural, like signwriting language. http://signbank.org/iswa/cat_1.html what3hands anybody? How about musical notation? We could sing our parcels to their destinations. ;-) Dave F. Hmm, it is so U+266D around here. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 2016-07-13 11:35, Colin Smale wrote: On 2016-07-13 10:23, Lester Caine wrote: W3W and OLC both have the same problem. They are trying to fix something which is not really broken. I disagree with this... They are not trying to replace / fix up lat/lon, they are providing a lingua franca for people to use when communicating. It's an alternate form of address, not an alternate form of location. They are intended for use by humans - so being short, memorable and reliable is an advantage. This is where W3W wins it from OLC as accurately remembering three words is easier than remembering a "random" sequence of symbols, and when you read it out over the phone the chances of a misunderstanding producing an existing but wrong result are minimal. It can not be used by humans without aid because using it means you need electronic equipment to a) translate w3w to a location and b) find the location. As opposed to regular addresses that can be found very easily by locals. If you give me a streetname in my hometown, I can find it. Certainly much easier than having to learn the about 500.000 unique W3W combinations that are in my (not so big) hometown. Us westerners are spoilt with our wonderful postal addressing systems... There are many, many areas in the world which don't have street names or even house numbers. Telling someone where you live means a whole chunk of descriptive text like "second red building on the left". But to get there, to translate the W3W address to a location, you need a GPS and a translation from W3W to coordinates anyway. I mean, how would you otherwise find casino.premiums.scream? GPS'es are usually sophisticated enough to store waypoints. So the only fix W#W gives is that during communicating the location you do not have a pen and paper to write down the location. It is useless for locals because they need a computer and a GPS, it is unnecessary for deliverypeople because they have a GPS and can use lat/lon that is written on letters or packages. And in this example: is it casino.premiums.scream? Or casino.premium.scream? Or casino.premiums.cream? And how does that sound when a non-english speaker pronounces it? And is transliteration to and from cyrillic (in the case of Mongolia) straightforward? I am still not convinced that it solves anything. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
El Miércoles 13. julio 2016 11.44.44 Dave F escribió: > On 13/07/2016 10:03, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: > > If written/spoken language is the barrier, maybe we should try > > something more cross-cultural, like signwriting language. > > http://signbank.org/iswa/cat_1.html what3hands anybody? > > How about musical notation? We could sing our parcels to their > destinations. ;-) Stop giving me ideas! At this rate I'm gonna go broke just by the amount of domain names I'm buying! -- Iván Sánchez Ortega ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
El Miércoles 13. julio 2016 12.37.32 Colin Smale escribió: > > there is no coordination. The address of one block has no relation to > > adjacent ones. > > Agreed - it's not a coordinate system, it's an addressing system, i.e. a > way of encapsulating a location in a convenient manifestation. Systems like What3Pokemon or What3Ikea are, in fact, coordinate systems, even if your naked eye cannot see the coordination/pattern. It takes just a bit of non-base-ten modular arithmetic to make your brain not see the pattern. What3Fucks does display a pattern, because some math bits (amount of subdivisions vs corpus size) match each other nicely. It's trivial to design a geodetic grid with a recognizable pattern if one puts their mind to it. BTW, the problem of calculating adjacent cells in a geodetic grid has been already researched in the past. The issue of whether things like W3F or W3P are "convenient" is, as we all can see from previous discussion, (to be exceedingly polite) very arguable. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 13/07/2016 10:03, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: If written/spoken language is the barrier, maybe we should try something more cross-cultural, like signwriting language. http://signbank.org/iswa/cat_1.html what3hands anybody? How about musical notation? We could sing our parcels to their destinations. ;-) Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
El Miércoles 13. julio 2016 12.10.29 Frederik Ramm escribió: > [...] is a coordinate system, not an addressing system. I think there's a thin line separating the both. But this is not obvious to us europeans, I think. See south america: house addresses are the distance in meters to the start of the street/road. So your linear position is part of your address. See gridded cities in north america: There's 1st ave, 2nd ave, 3rd ave, the first block is 1000, the second is 2000, etc. So actually your position within the grid is your address. The main difference being, the reference line or grid is an actual feature in the ground (made of asphalt or concrete). And there's enough irregularities in those lines/grids that it makes sense to have that addressing info in OSM. On the other hand, fully algorithmic systems (like W3F) would just add useless overhead to the OSM database. I have no doubt I would be labelled as a moron if I were to add W3F addresses to OSM nodes. Now a smarter question would be: Does it make sense to have addresses based on *invisible*, *imaginary*, *non-surveyable* grids/lines/landmarks that you can only see when your cellphone has battery? Does it make sense to have physical milestones/postboxes/streetsigns to enable an algorithmic system to work in the physical world (but not viceversa) ? Would land records be based on the algorithmic or on the physical system? That's the kind of questions that should be discussed, and not the "but you can pronounce them" or "but you can download a 10MB android library" b**lsh**t. For f**k sake. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 2016-07-13 12:24, Dave F wrote: > On 13/07/2016 11:10, Frederik Ramm wrote: > >> W3W is a coordinate system... > > I fail to see how it can even be described as that as there is no > coordination. The address of one block has no relation to adjacent ones. Agreed - it's not a coordinate system, it's an addressing system, i.e. a way of encapsulating a location in a convenient manifestation. //colin___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What pointing device you use for mapping?
I have not used a graphics tablet .. yet. They are popular with graphic artist I believe. However I have used a fair few track balls, mice and touch pads. Touch pads have gotten better over time, their buttons though do ware out rapidly! Mice .. very much second choice to a good track ball. The best track ball I have used was some 80 mm diameter, metal with a fair amount of inertia. It had very fine control .. yet could be rapidly spun in any direction to get to far parts quickly (requiring a number of complete revolutions), rapidly stopped and fine control regained .. all by the use of a single finger or thumb. Unfortunately that was part of a system ... not a single computer and not obtainable with reasonable money. So I use a logitech M570, the ball lacks the inertial and fine control of the better one. But I find it acceptable, particularly if you suffer any form of repetitive strain injury to the wrists. There are 5 'buttons' .. one of which is a wheel thingy too. Each function is customisable, possibly to each program/app in use. The previous model was connected by a USB cable, unfortunately no longer available. The new model has a USB dongle that wirelessly connects to the track ball. On 7/13/2016 8:00 PM, Tim Waters wrote: I use a trusty Microsoft Intellimouse (although I do not customise the buttons), but I'm really replying to an observation about a helpful tip for mapping parties and workshops. When putting on a mapping party / workshop where people bring their own laptops, bring a bag of mice for participants to use! The Missing Maps / OSM London do this and it seems as if all of them get used. (I also find it funny, how, several years ago at mapping parties we used to pass around a bag of GPS units to map, now it's a bag of mice!) Back on topic, I'd be curious to hear if the assorted map teams in companies like Mapbox etc use any specific hardware to point and map and increase productivity... Cheers, Tim On 13 July 2016 at 07:34, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote: I also noticed that often moderately priced items are more reliable than high-end expensive ones. Probably because they are more widespread, and consequently deficiencies in design are noticed, reported, and corrected faster. The Nexus Silent Mouse costs about 20 USD. I got so accustomed to a soundless mouse that I cannot use normal mice anymore, and not only for mapping, each click sounds to me as a gunshot. That is why I keep a spare one ready. But I work sometimes in a library where it is very quiet. I also received an e-mail where it is written that a graphics tablet is being used for mapping by a correspondent's acquaintance; that a graphics tablet is really precise, helps to map quicker, and that it is so convenient that it is impossible to map without it. And that a graphics tablet must be with a zoom control. If such a graphics tablet increases productivity by say twenty or even ten percent, then it makes sense to invest in it. Because our working time costs much more in the long run. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has got firsthand experience of using a specific model of a graphics tablet for mapping. Best regards, Oleksiy On 12/07/16 22:10, Andreas Vilén wrote: Nothing fancy. Heavy osming has a tendency to break mice so I only use cheap stuff. Once I bought a fancy one but the precision was so bad I had to change back to the standard Ms mouse... /Andreas Skickat från min iPhone 12 juli 2016 kl. 10:18 skrev Oleksiy Muzalyev : I use Nexus Silent Mouse SM-8500B [1]. This mouse does not produce a "click" sound, though there is a tactile click. This type of soundless mouse makes a difference while working in an OSM editor. I like SM-8500B. I own three of them, including a spare one. It works fine on Mac and W10. There are numerous innovative pointing devices available nowadays, - graphics tablets, vertical mice, pencil mouse, etc. If you have a positive experience employing an innovative pointing device design for mapping, please, let me know. [1] https://nexustek.us/mice/sm-8500 Best regards, Oleksiy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 13/07/2016 11:10, Frederik Ramm wrote: W3W is a coordinate system... I fail to see how it can even be described as that as there is no coordination. The address of one block has no relation to adjacent ones. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
Hi, On 07/13/2016 11:35 AM, Colin Smale wrote: > I disagree with this... They are not trying to replace / fix up lat/lon, > they are providing a lingua franca for people to use when communicating. > It's an alternate form of address, not an alternate form of location. No. It is a core element of W3W marketing to call their system an "addressing system", but it has virtually none of the properties that an addressing system has. W3W is a coordinate system, not an addressing system. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What pointing device you use for mapping?
I use a trusty Microsoft Intellimouse (although I do not customise the buttons), but I'm really replying to an observation about a helpful tip for mapping parties and workshops. When putting on a mapping party / workshop where people bring their own laptops, bring a bag of mice for participants to use! The Missing Maps / OSM London do this and it seems as if all of them get used. (I also find it funny, how, several years ago at mapping parties we used to pass around a bag of GPS units to map, now it's a bag of mice!) Back on topic, I'd be curious to hear if the assorted map teams in companies like Mapbox etc use any specific hardware to point and map and increase productivity... Cheers, Tim On 13 July 2016 at 07:34, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote: > I also noticed that often moderately priced items are more reliable than > high-end expensive ones. Probably because they are more widespread, and > consequently deficiencies in design are noticed, reported, and corrected > faster. The Nexus Silent Mouse costs about 20 USD. I got so accustomed to a > soundless mouse that I cannot use normal mice anymore, and not only for > mapping, each click sounds to me as a gunshot. That is why I keep a spare > one ready. But I work sometimes in a library where it is very quiet. > > I also received an e-mail where it is written that a graphics tablet is > being used for mapping by a correspondent's acquaintance; that a graphics > tablet is really precise, helps to map quicker, and that it is so convenient > that it is impossible to map without it. And that a graphics tablet must be > with a zoom control. > > If such a graphics tablet increases productivity by say twenty or even ten > percent, then it makes sense to invest in it. Because our working time costs > much more in the long run. It would be interesting to hear from someone who > has got firsthand experience of using a specific model of a graphics tablet > for mapping. > > Best regards, > Oleksiy > > > On 12/07/16 22:10, Andreas Vilén wrote: >> >> Nothing fancy. Heavy osming has a tendency to break mice so I only use >> cheap stuff. >> >> Once I bought a fancy one but the precision was so bad I had to change >> back to the standard Ms mouse... >> >> /Andreas >> >> Skickat från min iPhone >> >>> 12 juli 2016 kl. 10:18 skrev Oleksiy Muzalyev >>> : >>> >>> I use Nexus Silent Mouse SM-8500B [1]. This mouse does not produce a >>> "click" sound, though there is a tactile click. This type of soundless mouse >>> makes a difference while working in an OSM editor. I like SM-8500B. I own >>> three of them, including a spare one. It works fine on Mac and W10. >>> >>> There are numerous innovative pointing devices available nowadays, - >>> graphics tablets, vertical mice, pencil mouse, etc. If you have a positive >>> experience employing an innovative pointing device design for mapping, >>> please, let me know. >>> >>> [1] https://nexustek.us/mice/sm-8500 >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Oleksiy >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 2016-07-13 10:23, Lester Caine wrote: > W3W and OLC both have the same problem. They are trying to fix something > which is not really broken. I disagree with this... They are not trying to replace / fix up lat/lon, they are providing a lingua franca for people to use when communicating. It's an alternate form of address, not an alternate form of location. They are intended for use by humans - so being short, memorable and reliable is an advantage. This is where W3W wins it from OLC as accurately remembering three words is easier than remembering a "random" sequence of symbols, and when you read it out over the phone the chances of a misunderstanding producing an existing but wrong result are minimal. They are like postcodes, whereby pretty much all other components of an address are redundant (except for maybe apartment numbers). Us westerners are spoilt with our wonderful postal addressing systems... There are many, many areas in the world which don't have street names or even house numbers. Telling someone where you live means a whole chunk of descriptive text like "second red building on the left". //colin___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
El Miércoles 13. julio 2016 09.23.17 Lester Caine escribió: > Even something as simple as identifying the local time given some sort > of location identifier becomes unreliable when local variations of > language and custom are added in. If written/spoken language is the barrier, maybe we should try something more cross-cultural, like signwriting language. http://signbank.org/iswa/cat_1.html what3hands anybody? -- Iván Sánchez Ortega ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What3words
On 12/07/16 21:44, Paul Johnson wrote: > The way I see it, it takes a simple problem and tries to make it > simpler, but at the same time, as soon as you start talking about a > situation in which language commonality is not a given, the whole thing > makes you understand the simple elegance of latitude and longitude, > particularly in decimal form. Along with storing all times as simple UTC. W3W and OLC both have the same problem. They are trying to fix something which is not really broken. I'd commented in the thread about "Open Location Code should we support it?" that all these re-coding methods are just a second layer to the lat/long and that is something that the LOCAL client view needs to handle. The words used in W3W and the language used where places are included with OLC makes using either of them difficult for a 'Nomination' search. Even something as simple as identifying the local time given some sort of location identifier becomes unreliable when local variations of language and custom are added in. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct
2016-07-12 19:35 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend : > On 12/07/2016 17:29, Éric Gillet wrote: > > I've read through your posts in this thread, and while it's clear that you > have an issue with the way that things work now, I can't see what that > problem actually is. Can you provide some specific examples of DWG actions > that you think were inappropriate? What do you think should have happened > instead? > I will summarise what course of action I think would be appropriate to follow : - It's not clear whether AE CoC terms are rules or simply guidelines - As Frederik said, rules should be written well in order to have the legitimacy to be used strictly (ODbL, Contributor's Terms etc.) - Guidelines should contain, well, guidelines that should not be used as a direct basis for reversal. They could be used as part as an argument, but just using one item should not be grounds for reversal by DWG. - In consequence, a choice have to be made : - Either overhaul the current AE CoC, submit it to RFC/voting and use it as a ruleset for contribution after a consensus is reached - Use the current AE CoC as guidelines, not strict rules. > However do bear in mind that just like the vast majority of people in OSM > everyone in the DWG's a volunteer. Some volunteered; others were asked to > join but everyone's unpaid. Also bear in mind that everyone in OSM's a > human being and deserves a basic level of respect - even new users creating > invalid POIs simply because they don't realise they're editing a worldwide > map. > DWG members are volunteers, I am too, you surely are too. Contributor's time is a premium ressources in projects such as OSM. So let's not waste any of it :) > Andy (aka http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse , member of the > DWG but writing in a personal capacity). > Thank you for disclosing that and differentiating between DWG actions/opinions and yours. - 2016-07-13 5:36 GMT+02:00 Nicolás Alvarez : > 2016-07-12 23:08 GMT-03:00 tuxayo : > > Automated edits should also have a place. For thing like pure tagging > > errors: > > - URLs lacking "https://"; prefix > > - leading and trailing spaces in names > > - common, obvious and non ambiguous typos > > The error probability is almost null (error in script or typo?) > > When I searched for typos and leading and trailing spaces in my area, > I found lots of unrelated wrong things. For example, many objects with > trailing spaces in the names were "my house is here" nodes. Or roads > including the name of the political administration that was around > when the road was built (typical political bullshit that appears in > signs sometimes, but it's *not* the name of the road). > > Checking them one by one was a great idea. I agree that often an error is not alone and it would be best to correct all them while explaining to each individual contributor why it's and error, but as I said before, time is a premium. Here are other problems : - It slows down the actual error correction - As I said before : if you lace "completely manual" modifications with "slightly automated" (search/replace) and face objections for the "automated" part of your changesets, there are every chance that the whole changeset would be reverted, or even all the changesets in a time interval (just ask Test360 about it) So what do you suggest : - Do one changeset by feature you're editing, where you both correct the original subject of the error and othoner problems ? (Very slow, but higher quality at the end) - Do both the search and replace and correct other errors on multiple other errors "completely manually" in the same changeset ? (Time efficient but slow, good quality of data, but at risk of reversal of the whole changeset) - Correct "automatically" what can be automatically corrected, and rely on QA tools to spot the other errors ? (Time efficient, quick, but leave other errors untouched) These three approaches seems valid to me, but it doesn't seem to be the case for everyone. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
