Re: [OSM-talk] Key:Destination Abbreviations

[Aun Johnsen]

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 10:00, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> 
> Well, it still can, the software just needs to know
> how to abbreviate words, which is easy to do. The other way round,
> automatically expanding an abbreviation (i.e. reading aloud) may be
> ambiguous.
Let me expand a little on ambiguity, so that this get clearer:

Ave is both a valid abbreviation and a valid part of a street name “Street of 
God’s Ave”

Dr have multiple meanings (Doctor, Drive, Driveway, etc.)

Some countries have distinct rules where some words appear in a street name, 
while others.

In some countries street names can contain the same abbreviation meaning 
different things: “R. Hilary R. Clinton” for “Rua Hilary Rodham Clinton”

The software should know that Dr is a valid abbreviation for Drive, but should 
not be expected to understand that Dr is a valid abbreviation for Drive, as it 
could as well be Driveway or Doctor.

Aun
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] This is an auto-generated note from MAPS.ME application:

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2016-12-09 at 12:54 +, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> On 9 December 2016 at 11:49, Dave F 
> wrote:
> > 
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Peter%20Mount/notes
> > 
> > They are all for the same entity.
> > 
> > How can we stop this annoying repetition? Can it be blocked at
> > OSM's end,
> > contact individual users or, better still, get it blocked at
> > source? Does
> > anyone have a contact at Map.me?
> 
> I wonder if this could be down to a simple misunderstanding of the
> Map.me UI. As far as the user is concerned he's stated that an object
> on the map no longer exists. He may not be aware this his action is
> adding a note rather than deleting the object immediately. So when
> the
> object stays on the map, he assumes his action has failed for
> technical reasons, and so tries again.
> 
I found out for my self that duplicate notes are easy to create on
Saturday. I was in Bridgnorth for a few beers with my mate, and before
that had had a walk around doing some mapping.

I managed to create 4 notes instead of one due to the interface.
Initially I had wanted to add a category to a building, in this case a
theatre. Maps.me didn't allow that so I added a note.

Touching the tick had apparently no effect (no animation or screen
change), so I assumed it hadn't registered and tried again. It was only
when I looked at the IRC channel and saw the 4 notes I realised what I
had done.

Phil (trigpoint)


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[OSM-talk] Key:Destination Abbreviations

[Edwin Smith]

Hi all,Thanks for the responses.The point I think you miss is that it is 
impossible for the navigation program to have the policy "show the driver 
exactly what his sign will say" if it has been altered in any way.  If the 
program is supplied an accurate copy, it can still abbreviate or unabbreviate 
to its hearts content.Cheers,Edwin SmithSent from Yahoo Mail on Android___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Key:Destination Abbreviations

[Andy Mabbett]

On 19 December 2016 at 14:31, Edwin Smith  wrote:
> Hi all,
> Thanks for the responses.
> The point I think you miss is that it is impossible for the navigation
> program to have the policy "show the driver exactly what his sign will say"
> if it has been altered in any way.

I didn't miss that; I wrote:

   if you want to record, literally, what's on a sign, use
   something like 'transcription='


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Re: [OSM-talk] Key:Destination Abbreviations

[Andy Mabbett]

On 18 December 2016 at 23:48, Colin Smale  wrote:

> I believe the phrase is "tagging wrongly for the renderer"

The phrase, which is also used as the title of the corresponding page
on the wiki, is "Tagging for the renderer":

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer

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Re: [OSM-talk] Key:Destination Abbreviations

[Paul Johnson]

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Edwin Smith  wrote:

> Hi all,
> There is a disagreement that could use a few more eyes.  Destination has
> the explicit purpose of telling a
> navigation program the wording of a sign.  It is typically used as a tag
> of a Motorway Link.  It is not visible
> in the Mapnik in any way.
>
> One side of the disagreement argues that if an abbreviation appears on the
> sign (Ave for instance)
> it should be expanded to Avenue in the Destination Tag.  The arguments are:
> 1) OpenStreetMap discourages abbreviations
> 2) If you search through Destinations every time Avenue appears it is a
> mapper vote for expanding Ave to
> Avenue.
>

I'd go with the intended phrase, not the abbreviation, same as we do now
for name=*.


> The other side of the disagreement (which I support) argues to present the
> sign to the navigation program
> exactly as it appears, neither abbreviating or expanding abbreviations.
> The arguments are:
> 1) Destination is for the use of the navigation program.  If abbreviations
> are changed it has no way to
> know if the sign says Ave or Avenue.  If they are unchanged it can make
> its own decision as to what use
> of abbreviations is best for its users.
> 2) It is just wrong to count every Avenue as a mapper vote for expanding
> Ave because it very often is
> just the mapper's correct reporting that the sign has Avenue spelled out.
>

This is just pedantic.  Maybe destination:transcription=* for literal
strings if it's that huge of a thing?  Most humans are going to be
listening for the prompts anyway and aren't going to be bothered by a
difference between the literal string and the intended phrase on the
screen.  If you're shooting to rebuild sign assemblies for display, you're
probably better off creating a series of SVG's for your specific
application.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Key:Destination Abbreviations

[Dave F]

On 19/12/2016 20:50, Andy Mabbett wrote:
The phrase, which is also used as the title of the corresponding page 
on the wiki, is "Tagging for the renderer": 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer 


How is 'Destination' "/deliberately entering data incorrectly for the 
renderer"/? (From the first paragraph of the wiki page)


DaveF.



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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] This is an auto-generated note from MAPS.ME application:

[joost schouppe]

If you like to help solve the problem, you could share your experience on
the maps.me issue tracker:

https://github.com/mapsme/omim/issues/4663

2016-12-19 14:28 GMT+01:00 Philip Barnes :

> On Fri, 2016-12-09 at 12:54 +, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> > On 9 December 2016 at 11:49, Dave F 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Peter%20Mount/notes
> > >
> > > They are all for the same entity.
> > >
> > > How can we stop this annoying repetition? Can it be blocked at
> > > OSM's end,
> > > contact individual users or, better still, get it blocked at
> > > source? Does
> > > anyone have a contact at Map.me?
> >
> > I wonder if this could be down to a simple misunderstanding of the
> > Map.me UI. As far as the user is concerned he's stated that an object
> > on the map no longer exists. He may not be aware this his action is
> > adding a note rather than deleting the object immediately. So when
> > the
> > object stays on the map, he assumes his action has failed for
> > technical reasons, and so tries again.
> >
> I found out for my self that duplicate notes are easy to create on
> Saturday. I was in Bridgnorth for a few beers with my mate, and before
> that had had a walk around doing some mapping.
>
> I managed to create 4 notes instead of one due to the interface.
> Initially I had wanted to add a category to a building, in this case a
> theatre. Maps.me didn't allow that so I added a note.
>
> Touching the tick had apparently no effect (no animation or screen
> change), so I assumed it hadn't registered and tried again. It was only
> when I looked at the IRC channel and saw the 4 notes I realised what I
> had done.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
>
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>



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