Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Mikel Maron]

> My main concern is rather that there are a lot of free form questions yet 
>there is no option for the participants to allow publication of the individual 
>free form answers in anonymized form. 
Select “publicly aggregated and anonymously” as answer to the first question 
and the free form answers will be published.

Mikel



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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> I think that part of the motivation for doing surveys is that there
> was a belief that some people don't want to say something in public
> e.g. on a mailing list for fear of their opinion being challenged.

The question is if this fear is about them being challenged or their 
opinion being challenged.

The idea that there might be people who have (a) an interest in their 
opinion being heard and at the same time (b) a fear of their opinion 
being challenged even in anonymity (meaning that no one except them 
knows it is their opinion) is intriguing.

Anyway - what i would have liked to see is the survey providing *the 
option* for participants to allow the publication of their anonymized 
individual answers, not *the requirement* to allow this. 

> Of course, if you say your opinion through an intermediary, there is
> *always* the risk of the intermediary deliberately or accidentally
> misinterpreting our opinion. That's the downside, and the upside is
> you get so say what you think without anyone challenging you about
> it. It's a deal that you can take if you want; and if you don't want
> it then you can *still* post your opinion on a mailing list or forum
> or your user diary, where you can speak directly without being
> interpreted by an intermediary - or even post your survey responses
> publicly like you did.

By speaking directly and publishing my responses i risk being challenged 
and criticized personally.  While i don't mind this there are 
definitely a lot of people who don't want or can't do this.  And many 
of them probably would not mind their answers being published 
anonymously.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 8/7/19 23:24, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> In other words: What the survey says is you are welcome to provide your 
> ideas through the survey but we, the creators of the survey, reserve 
> the right to interpret your answers as we see fit and neither you nor 
> anyone else may correct us if we do not correctly interpret what you 
> wrote.

I think that part of the motivation for doing surveys is that there was
a belief that some people don't want to say something in public e.g. on
a mailing list for fear of their opinion being challenged.

Of course, if you say your opinion through an intermediary, there is
*always* the risk of the intermediary deliberately or accidentally
misinterpreting our opinion. That's the downside, and the upside is you
get so say what you think without anyone challenging you about it. It's
a deal that you can take if you want; and if you don't want it then you
can *still* post your opinion on a mailing list or forum or your user
diary, where you can speak directly without being interpreted by an
intermediary - or even post your survey responses publicly like you did.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[john whelan]

Creating a survey that works takes a lot of effort and it is quite
specialised.

Next time it might be worth asking some of the people who like to survey
the OSM community to build the survey incorporating a couple of questions
of their own and do a test run first.

Cheerio John

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019, 5:27 PM Christoph Hormann,  wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Simon Poole wrote:
> >
> > @the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would
> > seem to be designed to achieve a specific result.
>
> I can also see some expectations and assumptions being visible 'between
> the lines' in some questions but this looks more like projecting own
> preconceptions and state of mind and less like active manipulation.
>
> There seem to be overall a lot of questions where there is a high
> likelihood that many participants will answer a different question than
> what those designing the survey wanted to ask - due to unclear and
> vague terminology for example and due to ambiguous references.
>
> The question you referred to for example says
>
> "Do you remotely map other countries?"
>
> and it is unclear if the "other" refers to the country where you live or
> to "where do you map mostly".  Pure armchair mappers only mapping in a
> single country might answer "No" to this question.
>
> My main concern is rather that there are a lot of free form questions
> yet there is no option for the participants to allow publication of the
> individual free form answers in anonymized form.  This means we will -
> just like in the previous survey - only learn about any of these
> answers through the lens of the subjective interpretation of those
> making the aggregation.  This provides a lot of room for distortion
> through either cultural bias or deliberate selectivity of those doing
> the aggregation which kind of defeats the whole idea of doing a survey
> to reach parts of the community that are otherwise not visible.
>
> In other words: What the survey says is you are welcome to provide your
> ideas through the survey but we, the creators of the survey, reserve
> the right to interpret your answers as we see fit and neither you nor
> anyone else may correct us if we do not correctly interpret what you
> wrote.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Simon Poole wrote:
>
> @the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would
> seem to be designed to achieve a specific result.

I can also see some expectations and assumptions being visible 'between 
the lines' in some questions but this looks more like projecting own 
preconceptions and state of mind and less like active manipulation.

There seem to be overall a lot of questions where there is a high 
likelihood that many participants will answer a different question than 
what those designing the survey wanted to ask - due to unclear and 
vague terminology for example and due to ambiguous references.

The question you referred to for example says

"Do you remotely map other countries?"

and it is unclear if the "other" refers to the country where you live or  
to "where do you map mostly".  Pure armchair mappers only mapping in a 
single country might answer "No" to this question.

My main concern is rather that there are a lot of free form questions 
yet there is no option for the participants to allow publication of the 
individual free form answers in anonymized form.  This means we will - 
just like in the previous survey - only learn about any of these 
answers through the lens of the subjective interpretation of those 
making the aggregation.  This provides a lot of room for distortion 
through either cultural bias or deliberate selectivity of those doing 
the aggregation which kind of defeats the whole idea of doing a survey 
to reach parts of the community that are otherwise not visible.

In other words: What the survey says is you are welcome to provide your 
ideas through the survey but we, the creators of the survey, reserve 
the right to interpret your answers as we see fit and neither you nor 
anyone else may correct us if we do not correctly interpret what you 
wrote.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Dorothea Kazazi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and
> its aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the
> Local Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835

Answer to "Check any of the following to describe your involvement in 
OpenStreetMap" will be different in the German and English version for 
anyone self-employed with OSM connections.

As with the last survey i published my answers:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/imagico/diary/390441

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Dorothea Kazazi]

Hello,

A Spanish translation was just sent to us. It is now live at:
https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=es

If anyone wants to translate the survey to additional languages, please 
note that you have to:

- commit to translate the answers
- sign a non-disclosure agreement 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/b/be/OSMF_Non_Disclosure_Agreement_20180911.pdf


Thank you.

warm greetings,
Dorothea

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[OSM-talk] Free and Open Source Software for Geospatial highlights the value of open data and Earth observations

[Suchith Anand via talk]

 

GEO session at FOSS4G 2019 [1]  might be interest. It is a great opportunity to 
learn more about  GEO [2], the GEO Work Programme and explore potential avenues 
for collaboration.





Details at https://www.earthobservations.org/geo_blog_obs.php?id=370




Best wishes,




Suchith 







[1]https://2019.foss4g.org

[2]https://www.earthobservations.org






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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[marc marc]

Thanks Mikel and Eugene.
a reaction to my idea of being able to receive a follow-up ?

Le 07.08.19 à 17:08, Mikel Maron a écrit :
> We did this write up on how the previous survey was useful for board 
> discussions, and some summary of what was raised 
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/
> 
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 05:55:35 PM GMT+3, marc marc 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
> available?
> I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation
> about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
> it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a
> notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of
> the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated.
> 
> Regard,
> Marc
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Tobias Knerr]

Hi Marc,

On 07.08.19 16:53, marc marc wrote:
> where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions 
> available?

there were two surveys run by the OSMF in the past months. One was the
survey in advance of the board's face to face meeting in Brussels. We
summarized these survey results as part of this blog post:

https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/

Unfortunately, we cannot share the raw dataset as we failed to ask the
participants for their permission to publish their responses. However,
if you have specific questions about the results, we'll try to answer if
possible!

The most commonly mentioned concerns were discussed immediately at the
boards face-to-face meeting in Brussels, and board members are currently
tasked to work on several of them. There were also some ideas which we
felt were not part of the board's responsibilities, so we decided to
forward these to the appropriate parties.

A second, more recent survey was directed to working groups. This effort
is still ongoing – not all groups have responded so far, and I believe
we haven't evaluated the responses in detail yet.

Yours,
Tobias

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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:55 PM marc marc  wrote:

> where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
> available?
> I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation
> about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
>

The OSMF Board published a blog post on the main OSM blog about the results
of that survey including some possible action items:
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Mikel Maron]

We did this write up on how the previous survey was useful for board 
discussions, and some summary of what was raised 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 05:55:35 PM GMT+3, marc marc 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello,

where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions 
available?
I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation 
about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a 
notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of 
the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated.

Regard,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[marc marc]

Hello,

where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions 
available?
I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation 
about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a 
notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of 
the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated.

Regard,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Dorothea Kazazi]

Hi Simon :)


There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.


Thanks, it is un-mangled now :)

warm greetings,
Dorothea

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


The reason for this is that there isn't a 'next' panorama as such; rather than 
a linear sequence of panoramas, it's a network, so at a junction there might be 
multiple routes to follow - it uses the underlying OSM way network to navigate.


It's in the todo list to provide Mapillary (and StreetView) like arrows 
superimposed on the ground, but this isn't implemented just yet.


Nick


From: Dave F 
Sent: 06 August 2019 16:18:46
To: osm-talk 
Cc: Nick Whitelegg 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Hi

I find it slightly irritating the next panorama icon isn't in a constant 
location on the screen. Is there a key shortcut or maybe add directions arrows 
at the top of the screen similar to Mapilary?

Cheers
DaveF

On 06/08/2019 15:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:


Hi,


To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few updates to 
OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users to upload 360 
panoramas which will then be automatically linked using underlying OSM ways, 
allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.


It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need to 
create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility so if 
you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username instead.


It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if EXIF 
latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done either by 
clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX file recorded 
at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using EXIF and GPX 
timestamps.


URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/




Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/


Nick






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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Mikel Maron]

Also note that no questions are required, so you can skip if most comfortable 
with that. 
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 05:00:05 PM GMT+3, Mikel Maron 
 wrote:  
 
 > The question wrt remote mapping would seem to be designed to achieve a 
 >specific result. 


Not at all. But please do feel free to answer truthfully, and explain anything 
in the previous question "Where do you map mostly?"


* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 04:31:38 PM GMT+3, Simon Poole 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Dorothea

There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.

@the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would seem
to be designed to achieve a specific result. While a truthful answer on
my behalf would require a yes, because now and then I'll map remote and
if it is simply reverting a changeset on request of a remote mapper, but
that doesn't mean that a) I in general think it is a good idea, b) it is
any significant part of my contributions.

Simon

Am 07.08.2019 um 12:59 schrieb Dorothea Kazazi:
> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
> aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
> Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835
>
> ~ The survey will run for two weeks.
> ~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".
>
> There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on
> the opening page.
>
> warm greetings,
>
> Dorothea
>
>
> ~~
> Links you can share for different languages:
>
> English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
> Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
> Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong):
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK
> French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
> German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
> Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
> Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
> Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
> Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
> Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Mikel Maron]

> The question wrt remote mapping would seem to be designed to achieve a 
>specific result. 


Not at all. But please do feel free to answer truthfully, and explain anything 
in the previous question "Where do you map mostly?"


* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 04:31:38 PM GMT+3, Simon Poole 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Dorothea

There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.

@the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would seem
to be designed to achieve a specific result. While a truthful answer on
my behalf would require a yes, because now and then I'll map remote and
if it is simply reverting a changeset on request of a remote mapper, but
that doesn't mean that a) I in general think it is a good idea, b) it is
any significant part of my contributions.

Simon

Am 07.08.2019 um 12:59 schrieb Dorothea Kazazi:
> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
> aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
> Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835
>
> ~ The survey will run for two weeks.
> ~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".
>
> There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on
> the opening page.
>
> warm greetings,
>
> Dorothea
>
>
> ~~
> Links you can share for different languages:
>
> English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
> Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
> Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong):
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK
> French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
> German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
> Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
> Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
> Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
> Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
> Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] `computer_vision_assisted=yes` changeset tag?

[Philip Barnes]

On Wednesday, 7 August 2019, marc marc wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>  > “This edit was assisted by computer vision”
>  > is useful metadata, no?
> 
> I use a lot of such datas (traffic sign from mapillary via osmose)
> I review it (viewing the picture myself) before any change to avoid some 
> false positive and to improve localisation.
> who 'll made what if I add computer_vision_assisted changeset tag ?
> for stat ? why not.
> but in this case, it may also be needed to add humain_reviewed,
> humain_improved, integration_tools and so...
> 
> currently I put source=mapillary source:date
> I see a lot of mappers unable to fill a source tag,
> for ex because a major editor doesn't promote enought a changeset
> source tag. it would probably be best to start by having at least
> the source tag everywhere before pushing for more secondary tags
> 
I agree, mapillary can detect all sorts of temporary signs such as speed limits 
through roadworks meaning they will always require a human with local knowledge 
to review.

Phil (trigpoint)

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Simon Poole]

Hi Dorothea

There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.

@the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would seem
to be designed to achieve a specific result. While a truthful answer on
my behalf would require a yes, because now and then I'll map remote and
if it is simply reverting a changeset on request of a remote mapper, but
that doesn't mean that a) I in general think it is a good idea, b) it is
any significant part of my contributions.

Simon

Am 07.08.2019 um 12:59 schrieb Dorothea Kazazi:
> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
> aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
> Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835
>
> ~ The survey will run for two weeks.
> ~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".
>
> There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on
> the opening page.
>
> warm greetings,
>
> Dorothea
>
>
> ~~
> Links you can share for different languages:
>
> English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
> Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
> Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong):
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK
> French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
> German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
> Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
> Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
> Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
> Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
> Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] `computer_vision_assisted=yes` changeset tag?

[marc marc]

Hello,

 > “This edit was assisted by computer vision”
 > is useful metadata, no?

I use a lot of such datas (traffic sign from mapillary via osmose)
I review it (viewing the picture myself) before any change to avoid some 
false positive and to improve localisation.
who 'll made what if I add computer_vision_assisted changeset tag ?
for stat ? why not.
but in this case, it may also be needed to add humain_reviewed,
humain_improved, integration_tools and so...

currently I put source=mapillary source:date
I see a lot of mappers unable to fill a source tag,
for ex because a major editor doesn't promote enought a changeset
source tag. it would probably be best to start by having at least
the source tag everywhere before pushing for more secondary tags

Regards,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Mikel Maron]

Sorry I but I disagree. Yoga is a long tradition in OpenStreetMap ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPq4X47x3x0

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 10:04:46 AM GMT+3, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 wrote:  
 
 

sent from a phone

> On 7. Aug 2019, at 03:34, Naveen Francis  wrote:
> 
> Try YOGA it will help you.


I don’t believe this is an acceptable comment in the OpenStreetMap context, it 
may be at wikimedia, here it is not.

Cheers Martin 
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[OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Dorothea Kazazi]

Hello,

The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap 
was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its 
aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local 
Chapters Congress at SotM.


https://osmf.limequery.org/428835

~ The survey will run for two weeks.
~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".

There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on the 
opening page.


warm greetings,

Dorothea


~~
Links you can share for different languages:

English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong): 
https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK

French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.17.0

[dcapillae]

Thank you so much!

It is a pleasure to see the public bookcase on the map. It would be great to
have an icon soon to see the mobile library (amenity=mobile_library) also on
OSM Carto. Unfortunately there aren't many on the map yet.

Greetings from Spain.

Regards,
Daniel



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 7. Aug 2019, at 03:34, Naveen Francis  wrote:
> 
> Try YOGA it will help you.


I don’t believe this is an acceptable comment in the OpenStreetMap context, it 
may be at wikimedia, here it is not.

Cheers Martin 
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