Re: [OSM-talk] iD as default editor

[Yuri Astrakhan]

check your OSM settings. AFAIK, iD is the default editor.

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 2:10 AM Sören Reinecke via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> so far I know currently Postlatch is the default editor on osm.org .
> Since it needs Flash to run and most users do not have Flash anymore,
> clicking on the "Edit" button leads to almost blank page. Without knowing
> that you need to change Postlatch to iD in settings, you're lost as newbie.
> This is not very beginner friendly
>
> Are they any plans to make iD the default editor or is iD already the
> default editor?
>
> Cheers
>
> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
>
>
>
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[OSM-talk] iD as default editor

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

Hello,

so far I know currently Postlatch is the default editor on osm.org . Since it 
needs Flash to run and most users do not have Flash anymore, clicking on the 
"Edit" button leads to almost blank page. Without knowing that you need to 
change Postlatch to iD in settings, you're lost as newbie. This is not very 
beginner friendly

Are they any plans to make iD the default editor or is iD already the default 
editor?

Cheers

Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram



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[Talk-GB] Roundabouts one piece or segregated

[Warin]

I'm looking at Wivenhoe B1028 way 477263099.
This is a segment of a roundabout.

Would it not be better for the way to be a single feature in OSM?

I think the route relations now handle roundabouts so there should be no 
problem there.

Thoughts?


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Re: [OSM-talk] water runs backwards.

[Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk]

In the iD editor you can press V to reVerse the direction of any line. 
You can also press the question mark button, and then click "Keyboard 
Shortcuts" to see more useful commands, spread across the 3 tabs at the top.

In JOSM you can press R to Reverse a line's direction.

On 12/22/2019 9:00 PM, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
coming across bad mapping, if you draw a water feature ditch, or 
stream, from the bottom of the map
up, you get arrows showing the flow going the wrong way and there is 
no way to fix it like a one way road,

and we are talking about miles long segments.

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Re: [OSM-talk] water runs backwards.

[Warin]

In JOSM there is a tool to reverse a way. Useful not only on incorrect water 
ways but also cliff lines.

On 23/12/19 13:06, stevea wrote:


To be clear, it isn't necessarily from "bottom to top," rather, simply know and 
practice that the direction of a way tagged waterway should be in the direction of the 
water's flow.

I continue to clean these up, even locally to me and hiding under my nose for 
ten years.  They are easy to miss, simply fix as you see them, please.

SteveA


On Dec 22, 2019, at 6:00 PM, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk  
wrote:
coming across bad mapping, if you draw a water feature ditch, or stream, from 
the bottom of the map
up, you get arrows showing the flow going the wrong way and there is no way to 
fix it like a one way road,
and we are talking about miles long segments.


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Re: [OSM-talk] water runs backwards.

[stevea]

To be clear, it isn't necessarily from "bottom to top," rather, simply know and 
practice that the direction of a way tagged waterway should be in the direction 
of the water's flow.

I continue to clean these up, even locally to me and hiding under my nose for 
ten years.  They are easy to miss, simply fix as you see them, please.

SteveA

> On Dec 22, 2019, at 6:00 PM, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk 
>  wrote:
> coming across bad mapping, if you draw a water feature ditch, or stream, from 
> the bottom of the map
> up, you get arrows showing the flow going the wrong way and there is no way 
> to fix it like a one way road,
> and we are talking about miles long segments.

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Re: [OSM-talk] water runs backwards.

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

coming across bad mapping, if you draw a water feature ditch, or stream, from 
the bottom of the map
 
up, you get arrows showing the flow going the wrong way and there is no way to 
fix it like a one way road,
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: Contributions folklo

[Philippe Verdy]

En principe il faudrait d'une part qualifier le trou de la clairière et
d'autre part l'exclure (membres "inner") du polygone extérieure de la
forêt. Il est parfois possible de ne pas faire ça selon les types de
surface, ça marche pour le rendu car certains types d'objets sont
sysmétatiquement ordonnés et dessinés pardessus d'autres, et c'est souvent
le cas d'objets petits (les batiments par exemple, mais aussi les linéaires
comme les routes, voies ferrées et cours d'eaux ou les frontières);
cependant entre deux "landuse" ou "natural" il n'y a pas d'ordre garanti
(dont en cas de conflit on pourrait avoir un objet masquant l'autre); et il
vaut mieux faire explicitement les exclusions ("inner") pour les surfaces
qui ne s'appliquent pas simultanément que de compter sur le rendu.

Attention car certaines surfaces peuvent aussi se combiner de façon valide
(et le rendu les affiche en transparence l'une de l'autre: zones de marais
ou forêt débordant sur l'eau par exemple).
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[stevea]

I respect that, for as far as it goes.  This particular issue is specifically 
called "no code" and for that simple reason alone does not resonate well in 
many minds as "good intersection with GitHub."  Besides, who says a contract 
(license) with GitHub intersects well with OSM and its open-data / open-tools 
philosophy, again?  You?  For this case?  Masses of the silent?

I hear your preference, I doubt it is "masses" either way.  There might be 
significant numbers, though there are significant numbers of wiki authors and 
contributors and have been for the entirety of OSM.  Wiki is not only a 
well-established channel, it may be one of the better or even best ones.  
GitHub?  Mmmm, no, and while it does have its place, it is not as a direct 
substitution for any particular notification or documentation system (these are 
different, true).  As for the wiki "isn't the easiest" OK, thank you for your 
opinion, but I continue to call it "easy."  Very low bar of entry (especially 
as one is already an OSM volunteer), unlike GitHub which requires a separate 
contract (essentially, of adhesion).  I don't have a secret-sauce walkie-talkie 
like you do (and you won't have all of mine, is the point), but we all have 
wiki access built into OSM.

You might be tempted to say "OK, Boomer" and I'd be rightly miffed, but I'd 
prefer to reduce rancor and simply observe, yet again, "yes, both."  Only, not 
a lot of people naturally gravitate to a "non code issue" as GitHub as their 
first go-to, the contradictory nature of that seems clear to me and many.

The wiki, maybe yes, maybe no, (there is wiki, there are others) but yes should 
neither surprise nor annoy, nor does it.

SteveA

> On Dec 22, 2019, at 3:43 PM, Mario Frasca  wrote:
> one voice from the silent mass: I prefer github for such issues.


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[Talk-bo] Imágenes Maxar / Digital Globe

[Juan Jose Iglesias]

Para información de todos las imágenes Maxar / DigitalGlobe tanto Standard como 
Premium han sido desactivadas para el editor ID en prácticamente todo el mundo 
(incluyendo Bolivia) por ahora nos quedan imágenes ESRI y BING. Debido a las 
diferencias de ajuste muchas cosas pueden aparecer fuera de posición. Por lo 
que las trazas GPS existentes deben usarse para hacer el ajuste de Off-Set. 

Es importante también mencionar que muchas de las trazas GPS en OSM de Bolivia 
están amarradas (Peg) a la traza del propio mapa en los GPS y Celulares por lo 
que NO REPRESENTAN realmente un registro INDEPENDIENTE de las rutas del Mapa. 
Esto trae como consecuencia q en zonas muy transitadas deba usarse una especie 
de "promedio" y en áreas sin trazas GPS pues NO empezar a mover elementos 
INNECESARIAMENTE si la distancia entre lo mapeado y la imagen de fondo no es 
muy significativa.

Saludos a Tod@s y Feliz Navidades

JJ


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: clairière dans une forêt

[Philippe Verdy]

Avec JOSM tu n'es pas obligé de télécharger toute la zone: une microzone
autour de quelques points pertinents, et pour le reste il suffit de charger
les relations dépendantes des quelques objets sélectionnés (un noed bien
choisi suffit), et de charger ensuite les objets enfants incomplètemetn
chargés (ceux qui ne sont pas dans la micro-zone initiale).
JOSM permet alors de faire ce qui n'est pas possible du tout dans iD pour
les objets trop grands occupant un rectangle bien trop riches en données
qui ne nous intéressent pas.
Et c'est facile dans JOSM de sélectionner ces zones.

Note: si tu manques encore de mémoire danns JOSM c'est que tu l'as lancé
avec la version 32 bits de Java. Utilise la version 64 bits
(personnellement j'ai désinstallé directement la version 32 bits dont je ne
me sers jamais, mais si tu visites le site de téléchargement de Java, il te
propose par défaut la version 32 bits sur la plupart des navigateurs, même
pour une plateforme 64 bits, car le navigateur web est 32 bits; ce qui est
ridicule et limite sérieusement la mémoire utilisable!: utilise le lien
"autres téléchargements de Java" et pas le lien proposé par défaut).
Avec la version 64 bits les paramètres comme "-mx G" ont des
valeurs nettement moins limitées. la version 32 bits ne fonctiuonne
correctement avec JOSM que pour  des modifs locales sur des objets petits,
mais elle ne suffit pas pour gérer des grosses relations même en chargement
sélectif.

N'oublie pas les raccourcis claviers comme CTRL+ALT+D pour charger les
relations dépendante avant toute fusion ou scission de chemins.

Le dim. 22 déc. 2019 à 20:47, Arnaud Champollion <
arnaud.champoll...@linux-alpes.org> a écrit :

> Le 22/12/2019 à 20:29, marc marc a écrit :
> > Le MP est la bonne solution
>
> OK. Par contre je n'ai pas compris quelquechose. Avec JOSM pour créer le
> multipolygone je dois sélectionner à la fois la forêt et mon polygone
> intérieur.
>
> Mais pour sélectionner la forêt il me faut télécharger une zone
> tellement étendue que JOSM refuse (trop de données).
>
> Comment ne télécharger que la forêt ?
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Mario Frasca]

one voice from the silent mass: I prefer github for such issues.


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Re: [Talk-it] Amenity college in Italia

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 22. Dec 2019, at 20:28, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> 
> 
> L'unico uso quasi documentato è:
> office=tutoring
> 
> Però è un significato diverso.


non saprei come taggare queste aziende, ma concordo con Lorenzo che 
amenity=college è tutt’altro. 
Vale la pena chiedere in lista tagging.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[stevea]

I wouldn't be so quick to dis our wiki, Guillaume.  Personally, I find it a 
relatively-easy-entry system for plastic, live documentation of a project and 
its data, process and people.  It serves this purpose well even for 
less-than-tech-friendly folk and has for the life of our project.  Wikis can be 
encyclopedic in their scope, yes.  However, building long-term (many years) 
projects out of them is a proven-many-times case.  Wikis accommodate 
fast-moving and slow and steady growth alike.  Color-coded tables often provide 
at-a-glance status.  It isn't hard to copy-and-paste and build things out of 
things, with other people building things, too, meet-ya-in-the-wiki.

SteveA
California
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Guillaume Rischard]

You’re right, the wiki isn’t the easiest place to update and reference to.

I have created https://github.com/grischard/osm-lacking-attribution 
 to register each case as 
an issue. These can be discussed, referenced, searched by label, and hopefully 
closed.

So if you can identify anything where the attribution isn’t correct, please 
post it as an issue there.

Guillaume

> On 20 Dec 2019, at 15:25, Leroy Olivier  wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> Even if sometimes I fail to follow the topic (due to my poor english) I found 
> that it is an interesting one. I don't have a good idea of what should be 
> done but I slightly disagree with @Numo on this point : 
> 
> @Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i 
> added Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to 
> add companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for 
> years without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever 
> acknowledge.
> 
> Maybe the wiki is not the better solution but having a way to illustrate the 
> "attribution problem" and keep track of it feel important to me. I don't 
> think  this will solve all the problems but at one point we will need a way 
> to accumulate knowledge and produce some kind of visualization/quantification 
> either to negotiate (or try)  or broadcast it. The wiki is a good beginning 
> how can we improve it ? 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Le ven. 20 déc. 2019 à 14:41, Nuno Caldeira  > a écrit :
> @Rihards Thanks. I will try to do that documentation over the holidays.
> 
> @Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i 
> added Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to 
> add companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for 
> years without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever 
> acknowledge. 
> 
> As an xmas bonus, here's another Facebook company (via Mapbox), Snapchat that 
> is using OSM without attribution requirements (funnily there's plenty of 
> space for a reasonable and visible calculated mapbox logo and text). They 
> probably don't know, nor that they have been asked to comply over a year ago, 
> nor have agreed with the license in every aspect of it when stated using OSM 
> data, nor read Mapbox TOS, or Mapbox been informed on these repeated 
> offenders, nor read the multiples reports in mailing lists, nor that they had 
> a employee that ran for OSMF board.
> 
> https://map.snapchat.com/ 
> Let's continue to be hypocrites and pretend nothing is going on for over a 
> year with these two companies that are corporate members of OSMF and should 
> be the first ones to give examples. Enough with excuses. 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy holidays.
> 
> 
> 
> Às 09:34 de 20/12/2019, Rihards escreveu:
>> On 20.12.19 09:42, Nuno Caldeira wrote:
>>> hi Pierre,
>>> 
>>> I have tried that route multiple times in twitter, they will ignore. as
>>> they ignore emails (even if you CC le...@osmfoundation.org 
>>> 
>>>  ), the 
>>> license, the mailing list.
>>> if you can read the attribution clearly here let me
>>> know https://twitter.com/iamnunocaldeira/status/1207927051669397504?s=19 
>>> 
>>> this is not manipulated or cropped, straight out of the app. 
>> Nuno, thank you for documenting the attribution concerns.
>> 
>> It is understandable that repeated problems are frustrating. We as OSM
>> contributors see so many of them, and by the hundredth case we perceive
>> them as repeat offenders.
>> I try to remind myself that absolute majority do not do this on purpose,
>> and that my perception should not connect a new case to all the previous
>> ones. It is harder than it might sound :)
>> 
>> Without diving into specifics of each case, it still seems important to
>> have clear documentation on major cases.
>> Have you had a chance to put together a dedicated wiki page about Facebook?
>> It has been repeated in email threads many times, but if a student came
>> around and wanted to put together a research about attribution,
>> copyright and whatnot - would they have an easy time getting a complete
>> picture of Facebook attitude towards OSM attribution?
>> 
>> It would be crucial for that page to be neutral and avoid accusations,
>> even when Occam's razor seems huge and shiny - pure facts would fit
>> there best.
>> 
>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019, 00:14 Pierre Béland, >> 
>>>  > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Nuno,
>>> 
>>> How can we react positively suggesting to take care obout OSM
>>> attribution ? This is an international media and we can benefit by
>>> having a bit of fun.
>>> 
>>> Plus 

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Phil Wyatt]

Thanks Nuno,

 

I have added them to the list and also sent them an explanatory email 
requesting an update.

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Nuno Caldeira  
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2019 9:44 AM
To: Phil Wyatt ; 'Martin Koppenhoefer' 

Cc: 'Pierre Béland' ; 'OSMF Talk' 
; 'OpenStreetMap talk mailing list' 

Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

 

obviously not. their reasonable calculated attribution must be the same as 
requested on ODbL, but seems theirs and their logo (like in Strava app) is 
reasonable calculated than OpenStreetMap.

On 22/12/2019 22:35, Phil Wyatt wrote:

Are you suggesting that is OK or not OK Nuno?

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Nuno Caldeira   
 
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2019 8:41 AM
To: Martin Koppenhoefer   

Cc: Pierre Béland   ; OSMF Talk  
 ; 
OpenStreetMap talk mailing list   

Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

 

Sadly the board won't do anything. By the way came across this, new way of a 
fixed reasonable calculated Mapbox attribution when you click SHOW/HIDE LEGEND. 
https://www.natureindex.com/collaboration-maps/melbourne

 

On 21/12/2019 20:58, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

 
 
sent from a phone
 

On 20. Dec 2019, at 14:41, Nuno Caldeira   
 wrote:
 
@Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i added 
Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to add 
companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for years 
without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever 
acknowledge.

 
 
I disagree on this. Yes, it’s just a wikipage, but at least it documents 
abusers and our attempts to notify them about their abuse and ask them to 
respect the license. There are some insistent refusers but generally people do 
add attribution when pointed to attribution issues. 
When companies refuse to respect the license or repeatedly ignore communication 
attempts it should be duty of the board to look into it.
 
Cheers Martin 

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Nuno Caldeira]

obviously not. their reasonable calculated attribution must be the same 
as requested on ODbL, but seems theirs and their logo (like in Strava 
app) is reasonable calculated than OpenStreetMap.


On 22/12/2019 22:35, Phil Wyatt wrote:


Are you suggesting that is OK or not OK Nuno?

Cheers - Phil

*From:*Nuno Caldeira 
*Sent:* Monday, 23 December 2019 8:41 AM
*To:* Martin Koppenhoefer 
*Cc:* Pierre Béland ; OSMF Talk 
; OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 


*Subject:* Re: [Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

Sadly the board won't do anything. By the way came across this, new 
way of a fixed reasonable calculated Mapbox attribution when you click 
SHOW/HIDE LEGEND. https://www.natureindex.com/collaboration-maps/melbourne


On 21/12/2019 20:58, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

sent from a phone

On 20. Dec 2019, at 14:41, Nuno Caldeira  
  wrote:

@Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. 
i added Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to 
add companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for years 
without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever 
acknowledge.

I disagree on this. Yes, it’s just a wikipage, but at least it documents 
abusers and our attempts to notify them about their abuse and ask them to 
respect the license. There are some insistent refusers but generally people do 
add attribution when pointed to attribution issues.

When companies refuse to respect the license or repeatedly ignore 
communication attempts it should be duty of the board to look into it.

Cheers Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Phil Wyatt]

Are you suggesting that is OK or not OK Nuno?

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Nuno Caldeira  
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2019 8:41 AM
To: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Cc: Pierre Béland ; OSMF Talk ; 
OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

 

Sadly the board won't do anything. By the way came across this, new way of a 
fixed reasonable calculated Mapbox attribution when you click SHOW/HIDE LEGEND. 
https://www.natureindex.com/collaboration-maps/melbourne

 

On 21/12/2019 20:58, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

 
 
sent from a phone
 

On 20. Dec 2019, at 14:41, Nuno Caldeira   
 wrote:
 
@Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i added 
Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to add 
companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for years 
without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever 
acknowledge.

 
 
I disagree on this. Yes, it’s just a wikipage, but at least it documents 
abusers and our attempts to notify them about their abuse and ask them to 
respect the license. There are some insistent refusers but generally people do 
add attribution when pointed to attribution issues. 
When companies refuse to respect the license or repeatedly ignore communication 
attempts it should be duty of the board to look into it.
 
Cheers Martin 

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bonnes Fêtes

[osm . sanspourriel]

Sans oublier celles et ceux qui contribuent "simplement".

D'ailleurs suivant les disponibilités et l'expérience on peut passer
d'une case à l'autre. Ou cocher de plus en plus de cases.

Jean-Yvon

Le 22/12/2019 à 10:54, lenny.libre - lenny.li...@orange.fr a écrit :

Bien entendu : ceux (de manière générale) veut dire celles et ceux

Le 22/12/2019 à 10:12, lenny.libre a écrit :

Bonnes fêtes de Noël 2019 et de Nouvel An 2020 ...

C'est le dernier dimanche avant les Fêtes ; je vous souhaite de les
passer bien agréablement avec tous les vôtres!

Meilleur vœux à ceux qui entre-aident en répondant sur les listes, à
ceux qui nous fournissent des outils ... pour permettre de contribuer
et d'améliorer osm, ainsi qu'à tous les autres ; je ne citerais
personne pour ne pas vous oublier (ce serait dommage) ...

Joyeux Noël et Bonne année

leni



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: clairière dans une forêt

[osm . sanspourriel]

Sinon si tu connais le numéro de la relation, tu charges juste la relation.

Soit en r+le numéro de la relation dans CTRL+MAJ+O soit par une requête
overpass.

Ensuite tu peux choisir de télécharger les membres de la relation et le
coin que tu veux modifier (qui est petit ici : la clairière qui n'est de
chez Bolsonaro ).

Jean-Yvon

L 22/12/2019 à 22:17, Topographe Fou - letopographe...@gmail.com a écrit :

Perso je télécharge une petite zone où je sais que le chemin délimitant la 
relation a un point. Puis une fois la relation visible dans le panneaux des 
relations on peut éventuellement télécharger ses membres pour une vision 
d'ensemble (clique droit de mémoire).

Si il s'agit de représenter la forêt dans le sens d'une étendue couverte 
d'arbres cette méthode (mp) fonctionne. Mais si il s'agit d'une clairière de la 
forêt de X il y a fort à parier que la clairière fait partie de la forêt. Donc 
mp oui pour la zone boisée mais pas forcément pour la forêt administrative.

Cordialement,

LeTopographeFou


   Message original


De: arnaud.champoll...@linux-alpes.org
Envoyé: 22 décembre 2019 8:47 PM
À: talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Répondre à: talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Objet: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: clairière dans une forêt


Le 22/12/2019 à 20:29, marc marc a écrit :

Le MP est la bonne solution

OK. Par contre je n'ai pas compris quelquechose. Avec JOSM pour créer le
multipolygone je dois sélectionner à la fois la forêt et mon polygone
intérieur.

Mais pour sélectionner la forêt il me faut télécharger une zone
tellement étendue que JOSM refuse (trop de données).

Comment ne télécharger que la forêt ?



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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Nuno Caldeira]

Sadly the board won't do anything. By the way came across this, new way 
of a fixed reasonable calculated Mapbox attribution when you click 
SHOW/HIDE LEGEND. https://www.natureindex.com/collaboration-maps/melbourne



On 21/12/2019 20:58, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 20. Dec 2019, at 14:41, Nuno Caldeira  wrote:

@Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i added 
Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to add 
companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for years 
without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever 
acknowledge.


I disagree on this. Yes, it’s just a wikipage, but at least it documents 
abusers and our attempts to notify them about their abuse and ask them to 
respect the license. There are some insistent refusers but generally people do 
add attribution when pointed to attribution issues.
When companies refuse to respect the license or repeatedly ignore communication 
attempts it should be duty of the board to look into it.

Cheers Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: clairière dans une forêt

[Topographe Fou]

Perso je télécharge une petite zone où je sais que le chemin délimitant la 
relation a un point. Puis une fois la relation visible dans le panneaux des 
relations on peut éventuellement télécharger ses membres pour une vision 
d'ensemble (clique droit de mémoire). 

Si il s'agit de représenter la forêt dans le sens d'une étendue couverte 
d'arbres cette méthode (mp) fonctionne. Mais si il s'agit d'une clairière de la 
forêt de X il y a fort à parier que la clairière fait partie de la forêt. Donc 
mp oui pour la zone boisée mais pas forcément pour la forêt administrative.

Cordialement, 

LeTopographeFou


  Message original  


De: arnaud.champoll...@linux-alpes.org
Envoyé: 22 décembre 2019 8:47 PM
À: talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Répondre à: talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Objet: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: clairière dans une forêt


Le 22/12/2019 à 20:29, marc marc a écrit :
> Le MP est la bonne solution

OK. Par contre je n'ai pas compris quelquechose. Avec JOSM pour créer le
multipolygone je dois sélectionner à la fois la forêt et mon polygone
intérieur.

Mais pour sélectionner la forêt il me faut télécharger une zone
tellement étendue que JOSM refuse (trop de données).

Comment ne télécharger que la forêt ?



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: clairière dans une forêt

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 22/12/2019 à 20:29, marc marc a écrit :

Le MP est la bonne solution


OK. Par contre je n'ai pas compris quelquechose. Avec JOSM pour créer le 
multipolygone je dois sélectionner à la fois la forêt et mon polygone 
intérieur.


Mais pour sélectionner la forêt il me faut télécharger une zone 
tellement étendue que JOSM refuse (trop de données).


Comment ne télécharger que la forêt ?



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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER-completeness visualizer?

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 2:03 PM stevea  wrote:

> As the ITOworld TIGER-completeness visualizer at
>
>
> https://product.itoworld.com/map/162?lon=-121.88=37.04=12=true_sidebar=map_key
>
> is no longer supported, does anybody know of a similar "product" that we
> can use to visualize how well we have reviewed TIGER roads (and rail?) in a
> given area?
>
> I REALLY miss that visualizer!  It showed whether highway=* ways were
> "touched in the last three years," whether the tiger:reviewed=no tag was
> removed and so on.  It was very well done and quite informative.
>
> I suppose a dedicated renderer could be built, that's pretty ambitious,
> though it is a worthy project, imo.
>

History:
* First there was Andy's green/red Tiger fixup map.  That was a great
simple map. The map would go from red to green when you killed the reviewed
tag.
* Mapquest picked up this map for a bit but it died when the group was
decommissioned.
* Itoworld was a nice version that added many more colors and the date last
touched.  The map was damaged when certain tags were no longer saved with
each edit.  These were removed in the background.  I started removing all
the Tiger tags because most of the map started turning black.  You could
tell what was edited or not.  The map almost reverted to Andy's map.
*There was a Battle Grid map. The original was lost but there is a
replacement that you have to run by yourself as far as I can tell.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_Battlegrid
https://github.com/iandees/tiger-battlegrid

My problem with Battle Grid map was that the the colors were too light when
you revised Tiger data.  I liked the idea because it reminded me of the Who
Did It Map. Something simple like a grid but use two colors like the
original fixup map but with no fading.  All each tile at zoom 16 needs to
do is change color and tell you how many more ways need to be touched.
Most of the tiles would be red until you touched all the roads.  Then the
tile would go green.  Again my approach is to removed all the Tiger tags
because the street names have been expanded.  I don't do this on major
connecting highways because I am not sure that all the routes have been
defined yet.  Tiger will have some of that route data in the list of tags.


> Bonus points for your best guess at when OSM will eventually complete a
> full TIGER data review.  I'll start:  at the rate we're going now, 2045?
>

April 2050  for nodes
June 2028 for ways
based on Ben Discoe's burn rate calculations.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/bdiscoe/diary/44192
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HiC1-ixx30tbwgI27RJt1SvvK80BBRkLOg98Qcb0SD0/edit#gid=1034182050


Ben's spreadsheet mentions all these mappers except for balrog-kun for the
western states name expansion bot.
woodpeck_fixbot
TIGERcnl
jumbanho
jremillard-massgis
bot-mode
DaveHansenTiger
balrog-kun

I often use this list of mappers as a way of checking Tiger progress.  Note
that woodpeck_fixbot removed Tiger tags on nodes.  Hence, you have an idea
if the street has been touched or not for most of the cases.

Finally, I am not sure that OSMOSE would be a way to track Tiger data.  I
like the positive idea for moving forward.  I suppose that a pin would
render on every Tiger way might work.  The cycle times on some areas a
really slow in OSMOSE.  You'd have to close all the pins after each edit to
see how you are doing.  That effort adds to the pain.  I think the
challenge for the U.S. project is that most of these maps have been
maintained outside the U.S.  If implemented, I am not sure how long OSMOSE
would provide the service.

Regards,
Greg
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Re: [Talk-it] Amenity college in Italia

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Il dom 22 dic 2019, 18:07 Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi  ha
scritto:

> Il giorno dom, 22/12/2019 alle 15.58 +0100, Francesco Ansanelli ha scritto:
>
> Buongiorno lista,
>
> vorrei sapere come taggare delle aziende che organizzano corsi (come
> sicurezza sul lavoro)...
> amenity=school credo vada bene solo per le scuole "tradizionali" e
> leggendo il wiki inglese credo Il tag più simile sia:
>
> amenity=college
> A place for further education, usually a post-secondary education
> institution
>
> Secondo il dizionario:
>
> *Continuing education* (similar to further education
>  in the United Kingdom
>  and Ireland
> ) is an
> all-encompassing term within a broad list of post-secondary learning
> activities and programs. The term is used mainly in the United States and
> Canada.
>
> Recognized forms of post-secondary learning activities within the domain
> include: degree credit courses by non-traditional students
> , non-degree
> career training, college remediation, workforce training, and formal
> personal enrichment courses (both on-campus and online).
>
> Cosa ne pensate?
>
> Francesco
>
>
> Per me decisamente non è adatto perché mi sembra anche questo un tag per
> istituto di educazione "tradizionale".
>
> Nel tuo caso userei un qualche tag office=*, ma non
> office=educational_institution che riserverei per le sedi dei comprensori
> scolastici o cose del genere.
> La parola chiave più che "education" penso sia "training"
>


L'unico uso quasi documentato è:
office =tutoring


Però è un significato diverso.



>
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clairière dans une forêt

[marc marc]

> Le 22 déc. 2019 à 20:23, Arnaud Champollion 
>  a écrit :
> 
> il faut d'abord faire le trou dans la forêt avec un multipolygone puis 
> qualifier le chemin du trou (polygone intérieur) ?

Le MP est la bonne solution
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: Contributions folklo

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 22/12/2019 à 19:13, rainerU a écrit :

celui-là qui essaie de "faire un foutu trou dans une foret" :

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/78651839



À ce propos, quand on représente une clairière dans une forêt, est-ce 
qu'il suffit de créer le polygone landuse=meadown au bon endroit, ou 
bien il faut d'abord faire le trou dans la forêt avec un multipolygone 
puis qualifier le chemin du trou (polygone intérieur) ?


J'ai fait un essai sur cette clairière que je connais : 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/44.08404/6.23191


en utilisant la première solution.




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Contributions folklo

[rainerU]

J'utilse osmcha avec un feed RSS pour identifier les changesets fait par des 
novices. Cela m'a signalé celui-là qui essaie de "faire un foutu trou dans une 
foret" :


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/78651839

C'est en dehors de mon périmètre et je connais peu iD, alors si quelqu'un veut 
s'en occuper avant qu'il fasse des dégâts...


On 20.12.19 17:31, Eric wrote:

Bonjour,

Je ne connaissais pas l'outil mentionné récemment par Marc
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosm?c=France#6/46.800/1.989

C'est cool pour identifier les nouveau utilisateurs et les guider mais là, c'est 
n’importe quoi. Je fais des corrections mais c'est long et usant. Ca sent 
l'humour ... euh ... de collégiens (rue de la Moule, "villa a kelig, celui qui 
s'approche je l'**" et des tas de truc rigolos, y'en a des pages).

Ou encore
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757252001

Fatiguant

Eric [Blueberry]

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[OSRM-talk] Bicycle routing, crossing large roads: how to get information on the roads crossed

[Jeroen Hoek]

Hello,

I am looking into a bicycle routing problem and need some help on how to
access certain information from within the bicycle profile.

The routing problem may be summarized as follows. Two routes are
available; one of these crosses a large road (say, highway=primary),
with an uncontrolled and unmarked crossing; the other is slightly
longer, and crosses no roads at all, instead passing under the same road
via a tunnel.

The second route should be preferred if the detour is fairly brief. That
is, in routing terms the level crossing should be penalized in certain
cases, such as crossing higher priority roads (i.e., secondary and
upwards), and additionally, penalized for having unmarked or
uncontrolled crossings. The number of lanes may further penalize this route.

This would let the bicycle profile prefer safer routes if reasonable in
terms of delay incurred. It could apply to the foot profile as well.

Example with the undesirable, but legal crossing:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=fossgis_osrm_bike=53.20425%2C5.77589%3B53.20565%2C5.77266#map=19/53.20525/5.77427=N

The preferred route would start like this:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=fossgis_osrm_bike=53.20425%2C5.77589%3B53.20528%2C5.77433#map=19/53.20506/5.77455=N

Looking at the API provided I can see that I can get at the crossing-tag
(if any) in process_node, but it looks like the information I need to
conclude that a route crosses a large road is not available. The
process_turn method has it, but that method seems to be only called when
the a node marks a point where permissible routes branch.

However, in my sample case there is no branching for the bicycle route:
the highway=primary being crossed does not allow bicycles, so at the
crossings with this road there are no alternative paths, and thus
process_turn is not called at that node.

Is there another way to find out what type of road(s) I am crossing?

Kind regards,

Jeroen Hoek
(GitHub: jdhoek, OpenStreetMap: JeroenHoek)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Contributions folklo

[osm . sanspourriel]

Bonjour,

je vois que Georges a pas mal corrigé aussi.

C'est bien de corriger, c'est encore mieux de dire aux débutants en quoi
ils se sont trompés : l'idéal c'est qu'ils comprennent et qu'ils
corrigent eux-mêmes.
Juste quand il faut faire un revert je le fais moi-même..
Je le fais pour sntAppert (tiens un nom clair !).

D'ailleurs Georges l'a aussi fait.

Et comme dit Yves c'est en général efficace.

Jean-Yvon

Le 20/12/2019 à 21:18, Yves P. - yves.prat...@gmail.com a écrit :

Avec un filtre adapté, on peut lire rapidement les commentaires des
changesets pour débusquer ce genre de modifs (ex. 78577712
 )

Il y a effacé ces modifications suite à ton message :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/756537949/history

—
Yves


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Re: [Talk-it] Amenity college in Italia

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

Il giorno dom, 22/12/2019 alle 15.58 +0100, Francesco Ansanelli ha
scritto:
> Buongiorno lista,
> vorrei sapere come taggare delle aziende che organizzano corsi (come
> sicurezza sul lavoro)...
> amenity=school credo vada bene solo per le scuole "tradizionali" e
> leggendo il wiki inglese credo Il tag più simile sia:
> 
> amenity=collegeA place for further education, usually a post-
> secondary education institution
> 
> 
> Secondo il dizionario:
> 
> 
> Continuing education (similar to further education in the United
> Kingdom and Ireland) is an all-encompassing term within a broad list
> of post-secondary learning activities and programs. The term is used
> mainly in the United States and Canada.
> Recognized forms of post-secondary learning activities within the
> domain include: degree credit courses by non-traditional students,
> non-degree career training, college remediation, workforce training,
> and formal personal enrichment courses (both on-campus and online).
> Cosa ne pensate?
> Francesco

Per me decisamente non è adatto perché mi sembra anche questo un tag
per istituto di educazione "tradizionale".

Nel tuo caso userei un qualche tag office=*, ma non
office=educational_institution che riserverei per le sedi dei
comprensori scolastici o cose del genere.
La parola chiave più che "education" penso sia "training"


Lorenzo



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[Talk-it] Amenity college in Italia

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Buongiorno lista,

vorrei sapere come taggare delle aziende che organizzano corsi (come
sicurezza sul lavoro)...
amenity=school credo vada bene solo per le scuole "tradizionali" e leggendo
il wiki inglese credo Il tag più simile sia:

amenity=college
A place for further education, usually a post-secondary education
institution

Secondo il dizionario:

*Continuing education* (similar to further education
 in the United Kingdom
 and Ireland
) is an
all-encompassing term within a broad list of post-secondary learning
activities and programs. The term is used mainly in the United States and
Canada.

Recognized forms of post-secondary learning activities within the domain
include: degree credit courses by non-traditional students
, non-degree
career training, college remediation, workforce training, and formal
personal enrichment courses (both on-campus and online).

Cosa ne pensate?

Francesco
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[Talk-es] semanarioOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 491, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12659/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER-completeness visualizer?

[Rihards]

On 21.12.19 23:02, stevea wrote:
> As the ITOworld TIGER-completeness visualizer at
> 
> https://product.itoworld.com/map/162?lon=-121.88=37.04=12=true_sidebar=map_key
> 
> is no longer supported, does anybody know of a similar "product" that we can 
> use to visualize how well we have reviewed TIGER roads (and rail?) in a given 
> area?

Maybe authors of http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map are interested in
adding that.

> I REALLY miss that visualizer!  It showed whether highway=* ways were 
> "touched in the last three years," whether the tiger:reviewed=no tag was 
> removed and so on.  It was very well done and quite informative.
> 
> I suppose a dedicated renderer could be built, that's pretty ambitious, 
> though it is a worthy project, imo.
> 
> Bonus points for your best guess at when OSM will eventually complete a full 
> TIGER data review.  I'll start:  at the rate we're going now, 2045?
> 
> SteveA
> California
-- 
 Rihards

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[Talk-cl] semanarioOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 491, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12659/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-latam] semanarioOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 491, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12659/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-co] semanarioOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 491, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12659/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-bo] semanarioOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 491, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12659/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-br] semanárioOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Bom dia,

O semanárioOSM Nº 491, o resumo de tudo o que acontece no mundo OpenStreetMap, 
está publicado *em português* : http://www.weeklyosm.eu/pb/archives/12659/

Aproveite!

Você sabia que também pode enviar mensagens para o OSM semanal/semanárioOSMſ 
sem ser membro? Basta fazer login em https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login com 
sua conta OSM e usar a conta de convidado. Leia mais sobre como escrever um 
post aqui: http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

semanarioOSM? 
Quem?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Onde?: 
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[Talk-pt] semanárioOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Bom dia,

O semanárioOSM Nº 491, o resumo de tudo o que acontece no mundo OpenStreetMap, 
está publicado *em português* : http://www.weeklyosm.eu/pb/archives/12659/

Aproveite!

Você sabia que também pode enviar mensagens para o OSM semanal/semanárioOSMſ 
sem ser membro? Basta fazer login em https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login com 
sua conta OSM e usar a conta de convidado. Leia mais sobre como escrever um 
post aqui: http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

semanarioOSM? 
Quem?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Onde?: 
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[OSM-talk-ie] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-de] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

Die Wochennotiz Ausgabe Nr. # 491, ist nun verfügbar - 
 wie immer mit vielen Nachrichten aus dem OSM-Universium:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/de/archives/12659/

 Viel Spaß beim Lesen.  

 Euer Wochennotizteam
 
 Wusstet ihr, dass ihr auch selbst Meldungen für die Wochennotiz
 einreichen könnt? Einfach auf https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/ 
 mit eurem OSM-Benutzerkonto anmelden und dann den Gastzugang benutzen. 

 weeklyOSM? 
 who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
 where?: 
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Re: [Talk-it] cavalcavia Porta Milano (Novara)

[Lorenzo Rolla]

Sì, con molta cautela perché le corsie sono molto ristrette. Su
suggerimento di Andrea ho uniformato anche il resto del percorso. Se
qualcuno controlla per scrupolo (visto che è la prima volta) sarebbe
meglio. Grazie. Lorenzo

Il giorno sab 21 dic 2019 alle ore 20:39 Volker Schmidt 
ha scritto:

> Si passa in bici?
>
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2019, 19:48 Andrea Albani,  wrote:
>
>> Mettere come hai fatto hgv=no, foot=no e bus=no mi sembra coerente con
>> quanto scritto nell'articolo. Direi però che sarebbe più corretto
>> uniformare i tag  anche per tutte le way di accesso al ponte.
>>
>> Ciao
>>
>>
>> Il giorno ven 20 dic 2019 alle ore 14:14 Lorenzo Rolla <
>> rolla.l...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Gentilissimi, ho segnalato la riapertura del cavalcavia di Porta Milano
>>> a Novara.
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id#map=19/45.44681/8.63001
>>> Le mie correzioni sono dedotte da quest'articolo. Ho inserito le
>>> leimitazioni di accesso indicate nel testo. Visto che è la prima volta che
>>> indico, gentilmente qualcuno potrebbe controllarle e indicarmi gli
>>> eventuali errori? Grazie. Lorenzo
>>>
>>> https://www.lastampa.it/novara/2019/12/20/news/novara-riapre-il-cavalcavia-di-porta-milano-ma-solo-per-le-auto-esclusi-pullman-mezzi-pesanti-e-pedoni-1.38233773
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lorenzo Rolla
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-it mailing list
>>> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>>
>> ___
>> Talk-it mailing list
>> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>
> ___
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>


-- 
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[Talk-us] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-africa] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
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[Talk-GB] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-in] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-ca] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-ph] weeklyOSM #491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 491,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/12659/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-it] cavalcavia Porta Milano (Novara)

[Lorenzo Rolla]

Sì, con estrema cautela perché sono state molto ristrette.

Il giorno sab 21 dic 2019 alle ore 20:39 Volker Schmidt 
ha scritto:

> Si passa in bici?
>
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2019, 19:48 Andrea Albani,  wrote:
>
>> Mettere come hai fatto hgv=no, foot=no e bus=no mi sembra coerente con
>> quanto scritto nell'articolo. Direi però che sarebbe più corretto
>> uniformare i tag  anche per tutte le way di accesso al ponte.
>>
>> Ciao
>>
>>
>> Il giorno ven 20 dic 2019 alle ore 14:14 Lorenzo Rolla <
>> rolla.l...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Gentilissimi, ho segnalato la riapertura del cavalcavia di Porta Milano
>>> a Novara.
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id#map=19/45.44681/8.63001
>>> Le mie correzioni sono dedotte da quest'articolo. Ho inserito le
>>> leimitazioni di accesso indicate nel testo. Visto che è la prima volta che
>>> indico, gentilmente qualcuno potrebbe controllarle e indicarmi gli
>>> eventuali errori? Grazie. Lorenzo
>>>
>>> https://www.lastampa.it/novara/2019/12/20/news/novara-riapre-il-cavalcavia-di-porta-milano-ma-solo-per-le-auto-esclusi-pullman-mezzi-pesanti-e-pedoni-1.38233773
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lorenzo Rolla
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-it mailing list
>>> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>
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>


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Osmose : Erreur sur remplacement clés "ref" sur réseaux de transports en commun

[Philippe Verdy]

Le dim. 22 déc. 2019 à 10:15, marc marc  a
écrit :

> Le 21.12.19 à 22:29, deuzeffe a écrit :
> > Ce qui m'amène à une question de béotienne (éternelle) mais plus
> > générale : doit-on (ou jusqu'où doit-on) préciser/affiner les ref:FR
> > pour les réseaux de transport ?
>
> je pense que cela n'apporte que des désavantages :
> - l'exemple du réseau arc en ciel montre que croire qu'une ref:FR est
> unique est une erreur.
> donc si on voulait une clef unique, il faudrait aller encore plus loin
> ref:pays:region voir commune


Sauf que la compétence transport n'est pas (n'est plus) pour les communes,
mais les communautés et métropoles (qui ont aussi reçu celle des
départements, qui ne sont plus là que pour les aider à se concerter entre
elles sur des services communs, ou sinon les régions (pour les liaisons
longues distances au delà du seul département). Les réseaux départementaux
existent encore plus ou moins en tant que "marque" pour identifier les
lignes partagées mais au final c'est financé et organisé par les EPCI, qui
font appel à un ou plusieurs transporteur délégué pour gérer les différents
fournisseurs.

Pour les voyageurs, plus besoin de différents types de transport, le titre
de leur EPCI suffit et sera reconnu sur toutes les lignes de tous les
exploitants.

(hors réseaux privés collectifs ou individuels à la demande qui, eux
doivent cependant obtenir les autorisations nécessaires pour utiliser les
plateformes existantes normalement réservées aux transports publics, sinon
ils n'ont que la voie publique générale et la toute la législation relative
à la sécurité, selon le type de véhicule, le nombre de passagers par
véhicule, les autres charges autorisées ou interdites, les chauffeurs, les
conditions de circulation et règlements préfectoraux, les assurances, le
droit du travail, la santé, etc.).

Après ça, il faudrait distinguer les réseaux des "marques" de types de
transport correspondant à certains services (express, à la demande, pour
certains publics pouvant bénéficier d'aides particulières, mais c'est très
changeant et souvent pas lié au titre de transport utilisé, le titre de
transport même aidé donnant droit à la plupart des lignes dans les
conditions qui leurs sont propres, mais si on commence à détailler ça lors
on doit tout gérer ligne par ligne et il n'y a plus de "réseau". Ces
"marques" aident les usager à s'y retrouver).
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Re: [Talk-GB] Old and current GPS tracks

[Colin Smale]

I have also wondered about this. The date the track was recorded may
anonymised/obfuscated for privacy reasons. We always have the date of
upload, which is better than nothing I suppose.

On 2019-12-22 12:03, BD wrote:

> Hi, 
> couple of days ago I had a chance to drive on the new section of A14 (between 
> Brampton and Swavesey junction). I recorder my journey GPS track and now 
> would want to upload it the map. However, I've noticed there are plenty of 
> old traces present and here is my question: 
> 
> Over the last few years since I joined this list there were several 
> discussions about mapping "current" state of affairs. Latest being the 
> disused apartment block. How do we go about GPS traces? 
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.3103/-0.2416=G 
> 
> The above is no longer fully accurate as the traffic has moved to the new 
> A14. If I add my latest trace this will only add to the confusion as there is 
> no way to separate the GPS info by date (or is there?). Do "we"/OSM manage 
> the GPS data so it can be updated when roads change? 
> 
> Also, looking at the GPS data I found this: 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/52.3929/-0.6807=G 
> surely, this must be a broken trace which brings no value to the project, is 
> there a way to mark/report such errors? 
> 
> Many thanks, 
> dzidek23 
> 
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[OSM-fi] SoTM Baltics 2020

[Rihards]

Hi, dear Finnish OSM community.

On 2020-03-06 SOTM Baltics is happening in Riga, Latvia.
See http://2020.sotm-baltics.org/ for detail.

You are very welcome to attend, and we are especially looking for:

* Speakers
That is You. Got anything you are doing with OSM? Please consider
submitting a talk proposal for the OSM track.

* Partners
If there are any companies in OSM space that would like to advertise at
the event - become sponsors/supporters - please see the partnership
options for the parent conference at
https://www.balticgitconf.eu/images/conference_2020/partnership_proposal.pdf
.

SOTM Baltics happens as a dedicated track of the Baltic GIT conference.
More info on the parent conference at https://www.balticgitconf.eu/ .

For additional information consider:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SOTM_Baltics_2020
https://twitter.com/OSMLatvija
https://twitter.com/sotmbaltics

See You in March.
-- 
 Rihards

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bonnes Fêtes

[Christine Karch]

Merci! A vous pareillement :)

Am 22.12.19 um 10:12 schrieb lenny.libre:
> Bonnes fêtes de Noël 2019 et de Nouvel An 2020 ...
> 
> C'est le dernier dimanche avant les Fêtes ; je vous souhaite de les
> passer bien agréablement avec tous les vôtres!
> 
> Meilleur vœux à ceux qui entre-aident en répondant sur les listes, à
> ceux qui nous fournissent des outils ... pour permettre de contribuer et
> d'améliorer osm, ainsi qu'à tous les autres ; je ne citerais personne
> pour ne pas vous oublier (ce serait dommage) ...
> 
> Joyeux Noël et Bonne année
> 
> leni
> 
> 
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[OSM-talk] User manual for the Overpass API

[Roland Olbricht]

Hello,

for the Overpass API, a user manual is now accessible at
https://dev.overpass-api.de/overpass-doc/en/

Key features:
- It is a guided tour (and neither a full reference nor an example
library, which both are useful but separate resources)
- Focus on long term stable functionality
- Intended to be easily translated, 2 translations already available

The user manual aims to fulfill the desire for a more comprehensive
documentation. I hope that more mappers get empowered to user features
beyond simple key=value and bounding boxes. For this reason, alternativa
language versions in German and French are offered as well.

Although the user manual is still in the process of being written,
the essential chapters "Preface", "Spatial Data Selection", and "Find
Objects" are populated. The other chapters and the missing section in
these chapters will follow in the coming months.

For the languages:

More translations are highly welcome, and localizations of the examples
as well. You can either do a pull request on
https://github.com/drolbr/overpass-doc
or send them by other means. There has been a tool integrated to track
updates paragraph by paragraph
https://github.com/drolbr/overpass-doc/blob/master/helper_scripts/blame_recursively.sh
such that keeping the translation up to date should much easier than in
the wiki.

German, English, and French are simply the languages that I'm able to
communicate in and by no other means special.

Relating to other existing documentation:

The manual collects long-term valid information and is not even intended
to store short-term information. Short term information will continue to
go into the wiki.

A much larger legacy is help.openstreetmap.org . Others and me have
provided beside helpful information a lot of workarounds that are now
much too complicated. Even worse, there are then-truthful answer about
absent features that have been implemented in the meanstime. That source
lacks a mechanism to hide or delete outdated answers, and is in this
regard damaged beyond repair.

An example library would still be very helpful. There are several
examples on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Overpass_API_by_Example
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Advanced_examples
and in their translations (not synchronized), but much more probably
exist elsewhere and not easy to find.

Some older documentation pages on https://overpass-api.de/ will be
decomissioned once I have found the time to rewrite updated versions of
them for the manual.

Viele Grüße,

Roland

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Re: [OSM-talk] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych ? names of international objects

[Martin Constantino–Bodin]

I'd suggest using the 6 main United Nations languages for the "name=*"
tag of Oceans and Continents: Arabic, Chinese, English, French,
Russian and Spanish.


That would be very nice, actually. Although a bit redundant, as this 
information is already present in the six “name:UN:” tags.



But there is no perfect solution, and as mentioned, most database
users will want to pick a localized name of the form "name:=" so
these tags should be added.


I’m sorry, but I still have issues understanding why it would be so 
harmless… just to remove the “name” tag (in the case where there is no 
main local language). No information would be lost as all the 
“name:” (and its variants) would be still there. It would be up to 
the renderrer to have to make a choice. It looks much less ad hoc to me: 
OSM is before all the database, not its renderrers. (Again, amongst 
OSM’s principles, I believe that there is a “semantic first, not 
renderring” one.) I would understand if there would have been some 
well-used renderrers that assume a “name” tag for large objects, but it 
doesn’t seem to be the case from this discussion.


Adding a “name” tag to a place with no local name seems artificial, and 
as you have seen, raises quite a lot of tensions because it implicitly 
imposes the assumption that there should be one main language… and this 
assumption seems so far away from the principles of OSM. As Oleksiy 
Muzalyev said it very nicely: “Translation is becoming the true 
international language”.



By the way, I’ve seen quite unusual changesets related to this issue. 
I’m linking some here, as I think that it illustrates the issues of the 
discussion in a more concrete matter:


There is an edit war here: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/424311641/history Basically, there 
are some people insisting that the “name” tag of the Maldives be in 
English instead of the local name “ދިވެހިރާއްޖެ”. This is very strange 
to me: in this case there is a clear local language, but some people 
still insist in having it in English. English is locally recognised, but 
it is not the official language. I’m sorry, but it’s difficult not to 
see that as English imperialism: people wanting to impose English 
locally without any reason. I furthermore notice that changeset relative 
to Esperanto are prompt to trigger ban policies, but English-related not 
that much: there seems to be an asymmetry here which doesn’t feel like 
the values of OSM.


Speaking of which, some reverts are done in the name of “Esperanto 
vandalism” while the situation is more complex than this. For instance, 
this revert: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/77883111 The 
initial changeset didn’t updated “name” tags from English to Esperanto, 
it just removed them, and added localised notes “:eo”. These 
additional tags has been removed because of the revert. I fully 
understand that one shouldn’t remove the “name” tag until we have set up 
this discussion here, but with such as revert description, it seems as 
if the main issue of the original commit was to add localised tags Oo 
Please don’t use such changeset description unless the original 
changeset really did just update a bunch of “name” tags to Esperanto for 
no apparent reason.



Anyway, as Pierre Béland yesterday evening said it very well: let’s be 
positive, the new year is coming ☺


Cheers,
Martin.


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bonnes Fêtes

[lenny.libre]

Bien entendu : ceux (de manière générale) veut dire celles et ceux

Le 22/12/2019 à 10:12, lenny.libre a écrit :

Bonnes fêtes de Noël 2019 et de Nouvel An 2020 ...

C'est le dernier dimanche avant les Fêtes ; je vous souhaite de les 
passer bien agréablement avec tous les vôtres!


Meilleur vœux à ceux qui entre-aident en répondant sur les listes, à 
ceux qui nous fournissent des outils ... pour permettre de contribuer 
et d'améliorer osm, ainsi qu'à tous les autres ; je ne citerais 
personne pour ne pas vous oublier (ce serait dommage) ...


Joyeux Noël et Bonne année

leni



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Osmose : Erreur sur remplacement clés "ref" sur réseaux de transports en commun

[marc marc]

Le 21.12.19 à 22:29, deuzeffe a écrit :
> Ce qui m'amène à une question de béotienne (éternelle) mais plus
> générale : doit-on (ou jusqu'où doit-on) préciser/affiner les ref:FR
> pour les réseaux de transport ?

je pense que cela n'apporte que des désavantages :
- l'exemple du réseau arc en ciel montre que croire qu'une ref:FR est
unique est une erreur.
donc si on voulait une clef unique, il faudrait aller encore plus loin
ref:pays:region voir commune
- tout utilisateur voulant ajouter une ref doit trouver un exemple bien
tagé à proximité ou trouver la page wiki ad-hoc.
- cela implique aussi automatiquement qu'il y aura des ref dans des
mauvaises clefs, donc un travail conséquent de maintenance à faire.
- niveau utilisation des données, cibler les arrêts d'une route d'un
operateur est aussi facile que cibler ref:FR:...
- à côté de cela, pour une route, la ref se met dans ref, tant à
Marseille ou à Genève.

pour les arrêts multi-opérateurs, une règle simple pourrait s'inspirer
des routes :
- la ref du réseau local du lieu -> ref=*
- la ref du réseau régional reg_ref=*
il ne resterait alors que des exeptions, quand un arrêt se trouve en
bordure de 2 réseaux locaux.
pour ceux là, ref:=* avec  valant exactement la
même chose que la clef operator=* de la relation route simplifierait
bien des choses.

Cordialement,
Marc
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[OSM-talk-fr] Bonnes Fêtes

[lenny.libre]

Bonnes fêtes de Noël 2019 et de Nouvel An 2020 ...

C'est le dernier dimanche avant les Fêtes ; je vous souhaite de les 
passer bien agréablement avec tous les vôtres!


Meilleur vœux à ceux qui entre-aident en répondant sur les listes, à 
ceux qui nous fournissent des outils ... pour permettre de contribuer et 
d'améliorer osm, ainsi qu'à tous les autres ; je ne citerais personne 
pour ne pas vous oublier (ce serait dommage) ...


Joyeux Noël et Bonne année

leni


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SPAM, Re: Nommage des bâtiments scolaires / universitaires complexes

[Arnaud Champollion]

Bonjour,

Après avoir relu toute la conversation, je pense avoir terminé ma 
contribution sur l'École du Pigeonnier :


https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/44.08937/6.24833

Comme c'est une école primaire, amenity=school et school:Fr=primaire sur 
l'emprise globale, et indication "classes élémentaires"  "classes 
maternelles" et "cantine" dans les attributs "description" des bâtiments.


landuse pour qualifier les surfaces de goudron et d'herbe.

Pour le nom j'ai gardé "École primaire du Pigeonnier-Barbejas". Ça 
correspond au panneau à l'entrée (sauf le mot "public" que j'ai enlevé, 
sinon à ce compte-là il faut le mettre aussi sur les collèges, lycées 
etc. - mais j'ai veillé au tag operator=public , et ça ressemble à 
l'intitulé du M.E.N.)


Toutes les autres écoles publiques de la ville sont sur le même modèle 
(écoles primaires avec un ou plusieurs bâtiments), donc je vais proposer 
cette mise à jour au groupe OSMDigne suivant ces principes.


Bonne journée,

Arnaud











Le 20/12/2019 à 11:35, marc marc a écrit :

Le 19.12.19 à 15:31, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:amenity%3Dschool#Sp.C3.A9cialisations
Mais je n'ai pas compris l'histoire de la balise de troisième niveau.

cela a été ajouté il y a plus de 9 ans, sans aucune proposition de tag.
faudrait aller voir si la proposition education 2.0 en parle
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