Re: [talk-au] Why set coast line to nation park or, administrative boundaries?

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 at 14:05, OSM via Talk-au 
wrote:

> Since the coastline tag is also supposed to represent the high water mark
> then I would say that they should be snapped together (since they then
> represent the same feature - that is, the high water mark). This would mean
> that the boundary data already in OSM from the government basemaps would
> just be their own mapping of the high water mark, and probably be less up
> to date or refined as our own.
>
Exactly. So if anything we should be actively snapping them.


> This is my first time responding on talk-au, lmk if I've messed up any
> formatting to link to the original question.
>
It's come through but as a new thread, and for some reason from talk-au
instead of from you and via talk-au.
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Re: [talk-au] Why set coast line to nation park or, administrative boundaries?

[OSM via Talk-au]

I looked at the separation of park boundaries and coastlines down in 
Wilson's Prom a while ago and asked the #oceania discord at the time but 
never ended up changing anything. If you look at the legal definition of 
many national parks, their boundaries are defined by the high water 
mark. Since the coastline tag is also supposed to represent the high 
water mark then I would say that they should be snapped together (since 
they then represent the same feature - that is, the high water mark). 
This would mean that the boundary data already in OSM from the 
government basemaps would just be their own mapping of the high water 
mark, and probably be less up to date or refined as our own.
The other issue I wasn't sure about was the copyright of the government 
maps that declare these national parks as following the high water mark. 
You could argue that its a legal fact and therefore can't be copyrighted 
but it is also hard to find that information outside of government run 
archives. (The parks are usually represented on maps of the area by the 
Surveyor General and make references to the high water mark, at least in 
Vic).


This is my first time responding on talk-au, lmk if I've messed up any 
formatting to link to the original question.


On Tue, 28 Mar 2023, at 10:58 AM, Warin wrote:


Hi


Looks like some are setting natural features to government boundaries.


A recent case along the WA south coast has been going on for some years..

The coast line looks very confused and the National Park boundaries are
being changed to the coast line in reverse of what is stated on the
change sets... (bangs head on wall).


I was altered to it by OSMInspector identifying the National Park
boundary being broken by the 'adjustment' of the 'coastline' ... that
broke the National Park boundary...

The National Park boundary looks, in some places, to be the low tide
mark and then in other places to be the hi tide mark, so it is not
consistent.


I do understand where the two (natural feature and government boundary)
coincide that it is easier to use the same way. But every now and then
someone moves it to conform to the latest imagery of the natural feature
.. thus moving the government boundary .. unintended but there we go. My
only solution si to have them as separate ways .. making it easier to
divorce the new nodes added for the new nature feature addition from the
old government boundary.


Any other ideas???



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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface values - the third edition (review welcomed!)

[Marc_marc]

Le 28.03.23 à 19:38, Mateusz Konieczny via talk a écrit :

If someone speaking French would prepare pairs from-to they confirmed
to be basically 100% reliable pairs (without some tricky cases where
given word could mean both surface=asphalt and surface=gravel)
then I could help replacing them.


I'll translate the list, it's not that the issue

what i was proposing is to use the translations already done
in the wiki instead of redoing the list in a new place.
especially since there are probably also values in German,
Dutch and any other language in the world



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[OSM-talk-fr] 118 valeur de surface=* en français à traduire :)

[Marc_marc]

Bonjour,

Mateusz prépare un bot pour corriger des valeurs erronées
de surface au niveau monndial

au fil de la discussion sur la liste talk,
j'ai finis par faire une liste de 118 valeurs en français   
https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/osm-surface-a-traduire

aide bienvenue pour mettre à coté de chacun d'elle
la bonnne valeur en anglais :)
pour vous aider 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:FR:Map_Features:surface


évidement certains valeur sont à ce point précise
que j'ignore un peu ce qu'on va en faire...
genre gazon ras... qui n'est p'tre plus ras entre temps...
sauf si c'est un golf ou un endroit de prestige

Cordialement,
Marc



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Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] [Imports] Address import from government open data in Serbia

[Branko Kokanovic]

Hi,
I didn't know for openrefine software, seems like a nice think to be aware of! 
However, we opted for "full control" approach. Our algorithm (just shouting it 
here, someone might find it useful) to create mapping from "ALL CAPS" to "All 
Caps" is something like:
* check in curated list of overridden street names (those are names that we 
crowdsourced in online spreadsheet and put in files as special cases)
* Find streets in OSM by cadastre reference (since streets are also open data). 
If found, we are sure that mapping is correct
* Normalize "ALL CAPS" name (remove punctuation, put to lowercase, trim...) and 
try to find that normalized name in OSM. If found, assume that this is correct 
street name
* Do best effort. Keep "First Letter" (as we have lot of names of people, so 
mostly first letter is capital case) and create list of words that are 
exception ("street", "river", "valley", "brigades", "stream", "creek"...). This 
is highly specific to grammar rules.

Regarding osminspector, we will surely use it during and after import.

WRT question how we plan to do conflation, we also opted for "full control" 
solution - harder, but more customizable, I think. We might be wrong on this, 
maybe it was overarchitecture, but this is what we think will give us best 
ratio of import quality/speed of import. 2.5 mil address is not small number. 
Basically, we have daily job which is set of pipelines[1] that downloads 
cadastre data, as well as PBF from OSM, does some normalization, street name 
mapping and then conflation, generates HTML and import .osm files and uploads 
everything. Conflation is done by matching street names by Levensthein 
distance, housenumbers as numeric and distance as numeric too and doing linear 
combination of these to get percentage of match. If match is perfect (100%), we 
prepare .osm files to be imported to JOSM (in these files, we just add "ref" to 
existing entities). If there is not a single address at all within 200m (0% 
match), which is very common case in villages today, we prepare .osm files to 
be added as new nodes to OSM. If there is partial match (between 0-100%), we do 
hands-off and leave it to human to sort things manually. There is import 
instructions in wiki how to handle those .osm files and I just published 
instruction video[2] (in Serbian, I will add subtitles these days),

Thanks for great suggestions! Branko

[1] https://gitlab.com/osm-serbia/adresniregistar/-/blob/main/Makefile
[2] https://peertube.openstreetmap.fr/w/s7tiAyeK592Btj9ficfHJH


On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, at 13:40, Cascafico Giovanni wrote:
> Hello Branko,
> 
> I'd like to suggest openrefine [1] for ALLCAPS and mispelling issues. The 
> tool can save a sequence of regex replaces on huge lists. Besides, a 
> replacing sequence is automatically saved and can be a resource in case of 
> further imports.
> 
> Like others pointed out, I found osminspector [2] a very useful tool for 
> post-import quality assessment.
> 
> I didn't understand how you plan to perform conflation. My approach would be 
> using osm_conflator tool and audit service [3]. Basically osm_conflator works 
> on nodes by overpass extracting a category (ie, addr:) and trying to match 
> import candidates in a certain radius. Once a set of candidates is generated, 
> actual conflation (audit) can be done via crowd-checking on a shared map like 
> this [4].
> 
> 
> 
> [1] https://openrefine.org/
> [2] 
> https://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=addresses=20.40677=44.84030=12
> [3] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Milan_addresses_import
> [4] http://audit.osmz.ru/map/MI-M9
> ___
> Imports mailing list
> impo...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
> 
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elmley/Hockley Brook

[FORD, Alexander (THE SHREWSBURY AND TELFORD HOSPITAL NHS TRUST) via Talk-gb-westmidlands]

Hi
I am a experienced Google Mapper with two million views of my edits of our 
local Shrewsbury and Telford Hospitals.  However I now need to concentrate on 
making changes to OSM.

Is their any guides to starting out in OSM or local workshops to assist those 
starting out?

Thank you in advance for any advice given

Alex
Sustainable Travel Planner for the NHS.



From: Kra Ko via Talk-gb-westmidlands 
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 8:18 PM
To: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elmley/Hockley Brook

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Hi,

It is about the place where the Hockley Brook takes the name of Elmley Brook.

On osm I have created this relation : 
https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F15648926=05%7C01%7Calexander.ford1%40nhs.net%7C7ee5cd63940b492f1acf08db2fc177e2%7C37c354b285b047f5b22207b48d774ee3%7C0%7C0%7C638156280209957976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=rsHya75V0SzFJJDl5XOMI1eTkmjfYEp3cPf%2Fltz490M%3D=0

On a map I found this : 
https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.nls.uk%2Fgeo%2Fexplore%2F%23zoom%3D15.0%26lat%3D52.36130%26lon%3D-2.15646%26layers%3D117746212%26b%3D9=05%7C01%7Calexander.ford1%40nhs.net%7C7ee5cd63940b492f1acf08db2fc177e2%7C37c354b285b047f5b22207b48d774ee3%7C0%7C0%7C638156280209957976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=rWOIYnmJQx421%2FWBhNsewLoe7myYit88zl%2FVWOmzL%2FE%3D=0

with one name at the bottom left and the other name at the top right (I mean on 
my screen, I hope it will work for you).

So I was thinking the node of the changing name was at the confluence with this 
stream : 
https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F15652436=05%7C01%7Calexander.ford1%40nhs.net%7C7ee5cd63940b492f1acf08db2fc177e2%7C37c354b285b047f5b22207b48d774ee3%7C0%7C0%7C638156280209957976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=bOKiShIVwFON3Vs5MoAs23gg7Qa74JU%2FiV%2Bapys5UkA%3D=0

Can someone confirm that ?

And do you know the name of this stream r15652436 (perhaps Elmley Brook ?)

Best regards

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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elmley/Hockley Brook

[Kra Ko via Talk-gb-westmidlands]

Hi,

It is about the place where the Hockley Brook takes the name of Elmley Brook.

On osm I have created this relation : 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/15648926

On a map I found this : 
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.0=52.36130=-2.15646=117746212=9

with one name at the bottom left and the other name at the top right (I mean on 
my screen, I hope it will work for you).

So I was thinking the node of the changing name was at the confluence with this 
stream : https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/15652436

Can someone confirm that ?

And do you know the name of this stream r15652436 (perhaps Elmley Brook ?)

Best regards

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface values - the third edition (review welcomed!)

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

If someone speaking French would prepare pairs from-to they confirmed
to be basically 100% reliable pairs (without some tricky cases where
given word could mean both surface=asphalt and surface=gravel)
then I could help replacing them.

But I do not feel comfortable to do it when I do not speak French at all
and would really on dictionary.


Mar 28, 2023, 02:28 by marc_m...@mailo.com:

> Le 24.03.23 à 19:56, Mateusz Konieczny via talk a écrit :
>
>> Is any of values below has blatantly clear meaning in your language matching
>> some established or missing surface value? And would be also eligible for 
>> such fixing?
>>
>
> looking at https://taginfo.openstreetmap.fr/keys/surface#values
> yes there are indeed 118 french words that should be converted
> see below for the list
>
> due to the number, I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to first do this:
> convert everything to lower case and underscores to space
> convert "and" to ";"
> see if the resulting value is the one listed as the first bold word on the 
> page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:FR:Map_Features:surface
> and build a converting table for remain values
>
> (and the same for any language)
>
> the list of value in french found via taginfo fr
>  terre
>  herbe
>  cailloux
>  gazon_ras
>  goudron
>  sable
>  bitume
>  terre_battue
>  pierre
>  bois
>  macadam
>  sable_et_terre
>  gazon_tres_ras
>  normal
>  sol
>  pavés
>  pelouse
>  Terre
>  resine
>  gravier
>  gazon
>  charbon
>  béton_poreux
>  béton_bitumineux
>  béton
>  terre_et_sable
>  synthétique
>  plastic_grid
>  parquet
>  multiple
>  herb
>  ciment
>  calcaire
>  cailloux_et_galets
>  terre_goudron
>  terre_et_herbe
>  "terre,_cailloux"
>  synthetique
>  plastique
>  pierres
>  herbe_synthétique
>  Herbe_et_cailloux
>  graviers
>  gravier0
>  gazon_synthétique
>  Chemin_de_terre_compactée
>  carrelage
>  brique
>  boue
>  bitumen
>  béton_désactivé
>  banquettes
>  banc_de_sable
>  terr_et_pierre
>  terre_touvenant
>  terre/sable
>  terre_roche
>  terre_pierres
>  "terre_naturelle,_argileuse"
>  terre_humide
>  terre;herbe
>  terre_goudrons
>  terre_et_rochers
>  terre_et_pierres
>  terre_et_pierre
>  terre_et_gravier
>  terre_cailloux
>  terre_boue
>  "terre,_boue"
>  terre_batue
>  terre2
>  terrain_synthétique
>  terrain_en_herbe
>  terrace
>  tere
>  Sable
>  rocheux/felsig
>  rocher
>
> "revêtement_compact,_mélange_majoritaire_en_gravier_ou_pierre,_avec_des_matériaux_mous_tels_que_sable_ou_argile"
>  polyuréthane
>  plastique_glissant
>  planches
>  pierres_sèches
>  pierre_et_terre
>  pelouse_naturelle
>  pelouse_et_terre
>  Parking non goudronné
>  neige
>  Mousse
>  métal
>  liège
>  herbe_naturel
>  herbe_et_sable
>  "gravillons,_béton"
>  gravillons
>  gravillon
>  graviers_et_terre
>  gourdon
>  goudronné
>  enrobes
>  enrobé
>  empierrée
>  diverses
>  compact1ée
>  chemin_galet
>  chemin_en_terre
>  chemin_de_terre_et_herbe
>  chemin_de_terre_et_graviers
>  chemin_de_terre
>  "champs,_herbe"
>  caoutchouc
>  cailloux_et_terre
>  caillou_+_riviere_qui_coule_dedans
>  bois_et_goudron/plastique
>  blocs_de_roche
>  béton_bois
>  béton_bitumimeux
>  artificiel
>
>
>
> ___
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>

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[OSM-ja] 4/15 京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ：第38回 実相院

[yasunari yamashita]

山下です。
皆さんこんにちわ。

日本で唯一 毎月開催しているマッピングパーティ
京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ
次回は 岩倉門跡とか岩倉御殿とも呼ばれる元天台宗の寺門派単立寺院 実相院
https://openstreetmap-kyoto.connpass.com/event/279362/

ゆるーり街歩きしてサーベイ（現地調査）
向日市の会議室で OpenStreetMap にマッピング（地図編集）、
マッピングの後は激辛懇親会！！

皆様の参加をお待ちしています！
-- 
山下康成＠京都府向日市
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[Talk-ro] România - Drumuri Izolate (Isolated Highway)

[Salim Baidoun]

Salutare comunității din România,



Lansăm o nouă provocare, România - Drumuri Izolate (Isolated 
Highway), răspândită în 
întreaga țară, pe care echipa noastră a generat-o, pe baza analizei 
clasificării drumurilor (highway) și conectivității acestora cu restul rețelei 
de drumuri, cu așteptarea ca, din partea comunității, acestea să fie 
identificate și conectate, acolo unde este necesar.



Pagina GitHub:  
și descrierea provocării conțin informațiile care vă pot ajuta să rezolvați 
task-urile, însă nu ezitați să mă contactați dacă aveți orice întrebare, 
nelămurire sau remarcă.





Să aveți o zi minunată și editări fericite!

Salim A. Baidoun / Community & Partnerships - Global / Community Engagement


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Re: [talk-au] Why set coast line to nation park or administrative boundaries?

[Little Maps]

Slightly different issue… but the accuracy of governmental admin boundaries can 
vary a lot depending where you are in Aus. In regional NSW, allotment 
boundaries (and associated park, state forest and local gov boundaries) as 
shown on the NSW gov base map (and as often used in OSM) are often inaccurate 
by 20-50 m and sometimes lots more. This inaccuracy is clearly stated on the 
Six Maps FAQ page (see Q 6&7).

https://www.spatial.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/216383/SIXMapsFAQ.pdf

Basically, this statewide dataset is not intended to be used at the high zoom 
levels that we can use in OSM. Personally, I’d echo Frederick and Andrew’s view 
that we may be seeking a false sense of exactitude by focusing on small 
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Re: [talk-au] Why set coast line to nation park or administrative boundaries?

[Andrew Harvey]

Personally I'd prefer to snap them, it makes it easier for us to maintain,
better for data consumers, and overall cleaner data.

I speculate these departmental GIS teams are creating the boundaries from
their own coastline datasets anyway, so why not just have them match OSM's
coastline?

I think it's unlikely these GIS representations are the absolute set in
stone authority, if they rebuild their GIS data with newer coastline data
their boundary geometry will change.

I agree with Frederik here, if someone wants the boundaries exactly as they
appear in the government published dataset they should go there and not
expect OSM to be exactly the same. They shouldn't be untouchable objects in
OSM, we can hold a different representation of the boundary to the
department's GIS dataset that doesn't make OSM wrong.

I think you'll find exactly what Frederik says, that the moment you step
foot on the land out of the water you'll be deemed in the national park for
most purposes, except particular cases where the boundaries does extend out
in the water.

>
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[Talk-bd] OSMBD Membership Working Group Meeting Updates.

[Sawan Shariar]

Dear OSMBD Activists,
You might have already known that, had our first meeting of OSMBD
membership working group yesterday evening. There were 23 members present
at the meeting. In the meeting, WG members discussed the proposed agendas
from the WG and took some decisions from the discussions. The community
participants participated willingly in the discussion.

The taken decisions that,
WG will start the OSMBD membership drive campaign on 1st April 2023 and
will be continued till 30th April 2023. WG group will try to reach a large
number of people in the OSMBD community.

WG will collect membership info through google Forms as the system is
popular for all. Also, they will search more platforms to check the system.
Here is the meeting minutes link-
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15sEIk7bLCWurR1uzqN4jVAPWoz4XDM1ahpNZvfuAbo0/edit?usp=sharing

To get the next meeting updates of the WG, please join the Telegram
channel- https://t.me/+YB1mYu2bmzUwZWNl
Thank you all. And hope to see you at the next meeting.

#OSMBD
#WorkingGroup
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[OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau Défi MapRoulette- voies isolées & nouvelles routes

[Salim Baidoun]

Bonjour à la communauté OSM France,

Je me permets de partager avec vous 2 informations :

  *   Le défi sur les voies 
isolées a été complété de 
nouvelles tâches réparties sur toute la France
  *   Un nouveau défi a été mis en ligne sur l’ajout de nouvelles routes en 
Occitanie. Pour celui-ci, nous 
avons comparé spatialement les axes routiers du référentiel interne de TomTom 
avec le réseau routier OSM et détecté des voies manquantes. Nous attendons de 
la communauté qu’elle identifie et ajoute, si nécessaire, une ou plusieurs 
voies manquantes.

La page GitHub, 
ainsi que la description du défi, donne plus de détails qui peuvent vous aider 
dans la résolution des tâches. Si vous avez la moindre question ou remarque, 
n’hésitez pas à me contacter.

Bonne contribution et à bientôt !

Salim A. Baidoun / Community & Partnerships - Global / Community Engagement


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Re: [talk-au] Why set coast line to nation park or administrative boundaries?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

I would advise caution with this.

Government bodies will typically hold their own GIS data for park 
boundaries or administrative boundaries, and the GIS data they have will 
never fully align with the coastline.


However, it is not our job to be an agent for publishing government 
data. We have to look further and ask for the actual situation.


If the national park boundary is mostly along the coastline but there's 
a tiny patch of sand where the coastline has changed but the public data 
has not - does that really mean that this little patch is not part of 
the national park (and I could go there and, whatever, light a fire or 
something I'm not allowed to do in the national park)?


OpenStreetMap becomes more complex the more different boundaries we 
track. Having a coastline with an administrative boundary that runs 
"almost" along the coast but is always a meter off, and then having in 
addition to that a national park boundary that is also "almost" the same 
but not quite - we should only do that if it is an important feature. 
"Hey, everyone knows that along the coast of XY there's this one meter 
wide stretch that is not officially part of the XY city so the city rule 
about nude bathing doesn't apply there" or whatever, that might be a 
reason to carefully map the difference - but if the difference is not 
"on purpose" but just an imprecision that the city and national park 
administration were likely to fix if they had the technical means then I 
would not try to map these boundaries separate from the coastline.


Especially since they will certainly not be verifiable on the ground...

Bye
Frederik

On 28.03.23 11:33, cleary wrote:

Warin's proposal, that natural features be separated from administrative 
boundaries, is strongly supported. Boundaries are often near natural features 
but they rarely align precisely. Further, natural features such as coastline 
and waterways can change surprisingly quickly while administrative boundaries 
change much less often.



On Tue, 28 Mar 2023, at 10:58 AM, Warin wrote:

Hi


Looks like some are setting natural features to government boundaries.


A recent case along the WA south coast has been going on for some years..

The coast line looks very confused and the National Park boundaries are
being changed to the coast line in reverse of what is stated on the
change sets... (bangs head on wall).


I was altered to it by OSMInspector identifying the National Park
boundary being broken by the 'adjustment' of the 'coastline' ... that
broke the National Park boundary...

The National Park boundary looks, in some places, to be the low tide
mark and then in other places to be the hi tide mark, so it is not
consistent.


I do understand where the two (natural feature and government boundary)
coincide that it is easier to use the same way. But every now and then
someone moves it to conform to the latest imagery of the natural feature
.. thus moving the government boundary .. unintended but there we go. My
only solution si to have them as separate ways .. making it easier to
divorce the new nodes added for the new nature feature addition from the
old government boundary.


Any other ideas???



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--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSM-talk-fr] Activité de contribution organisée : gares SNCF

[Antoine Riche via Talk-fr]

Bonjour.

Après la cartographie des gares d'Île-de-France pour SNCF Transilien, un 
projet de cartographie des gares pour SNCF Gares & Connexions a démarré 
fin février. Ce projet est mené par la société Wemap, qui a remporté 
l'appel d'offres, avec Carto’Cité en sous-traitance. L'ambition est 
d'alimenter une application de localisation et de guidage en gare pour 
plusieurs centaines de gares.


Page du projet sur le wiki : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/France/Gares_SNCF


N'hésitez pas si vous avez des questions,
Antoine Riche, Carto’Cité.



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