Re: [OSM-talk] What the license change is going to do to the map
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Anthony wrote: > http://www.sharedmap.org/bna.html > http://www.sharedmap.org/before.PNG > http://www.sharedmap.org/after.PNG I enjoy a thread that is well on its way to a flame war as much as the next guy, but do you mind telling us the methodology used to achieve this result? Last time it was discussed, there was a lot of debate on how to properly tag a node, way, or relation as license compatible or not because this is a multi-user system. I am curious: how did you reach your conclusions? > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Cloudmade Ambassador Program
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Dave F. wrote: > Is that why Dell launched it's Streak mobile 'phone in the UK first? > > . Also consider the fact that the Cloudmade and MapQuest ambassador programs > > What's an 'ambassador' program? Out of curiosity, does Cloudmade even have this outreach program anymore? I was under the impression that Thea Clay was the last ambassador/outreach coordinator Cloudmade had *before* she went to Mapquest very recently.[0] Can anyone from Cloudmade comment? [0] http://www.mail-archive.com/talk@openstreetmap.org/msg34074.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of Conduct: civil discussion, lists etc.
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:13 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 16 October 2010 19:08, Al Haraka wrote: >> initiatives mentioned before. However, I think we should keep it >> plain and simple and remove some caustic behavior that seems to be >> returning to the list after a hiatus. Collaboration and consideration > > Most of the caustic behaviour I've seen lately is from SteveC... I did not single out anyone on purpose, because this is not going to be productive OR solve the current issue. Whether it is SteveC or any other OSM user, setting transparent guidelines regarding behavior we do not tolerate will go a long way. I respect SteveC, and he has given up increasing control OSM from its inception to now for the benefit of the community. I think if he were instructed by the community, I hope he would behave like any other user: respect the rules and accept a ban if deserved. To make it clear, this is not an invitation for comments on how SteveC would theoretically behave. Personally, I do not want to discuss it. If you do John, feel free to start such a discussion with a new thread. But like other topics, I think this is an important issue that will be quickly derailed if we start singling people out instead of discussing the relevant details of implementation. Please excuse me if this sounds blunt. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of Conduct: civil discussion, lists etc.
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ulf Lamping > wrote: >> In the long run they tend to do more harm than good. > > Hi, can you give an example of this? I'm at a loss to understand how > asking people to follow simple rules like "be collaborative" and "be > considerate" could end up being harmful? I think this is a very good point. If such a policy exists, it should be specific about what is disruptive, and how disruptions will be dealt with *transparently*. I think identifying positive behavior like this is not very productive and can be limiting. I would like to see something that says: "This is what we do not tolerate (just like a lot of web forums), and this is how we will deal with it. Other than, do exactly what you want and have a good time while you're at it." I will not lie. I have not seen the Ubuntu Code of Conduct or similar initiatives mentioned before. However, I think we should keep it plain and simple and remove some caustic behavior that seems to be returning to the list after a hiatus. Collaboration and consideration is going on without the code, and will probably continue, even improve, by isolating bad behaviors. > I'm very much in favour of adopting such a policy. At the very least, > we can then stop debating whether or not we need such policies, and > whether or not people's behaviour is harmful - we can simply discuss > whether they are in line with the policy or not. > > Steve > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Ed Loach wrote: > Elizabeth wrote: > >> No, I cannot create the nice map. I do not want to be so blunt, but I do not know any other way: then stop complaining about the map. Or anything an OSM user can complain about at OSM, for that matter. This is an open data project, so I have been told. Like many open source projects that it relies upon, specifically the tools used to render and manipulate OSM data, the ecosystem upon which it relies is meritocracy. The people you have take issue with do have the power because they have the knowledge and skills to create these tools or refine them. If you do not like the current tool set, and you are not part of a significant plurality of users and developers who can enforce such a change, you have to learn to make your own. I am sorry, but that was, is, and always will be the way open source works, at least in my mind. I have my own opinions on OSM quality, but then again I am not yet a component OSM contributor, web developer, or system administrator. It is not my place to judge until I understand the tools well enough to critique them accurately on a technical level (nice is not really specific enough for me), and then modify them or make new ones in the event a significant number of people in the community disagree with me. The point of the community is to leverage your skills with the skills of others. That way, we have a high competency level in multiple dimensions. If you do not like one component and cannot fix it yourself, it is bizarre for me, personally, to insist others conform to your wishes. I have believed that open source and open data projects specifically let go of that thinking so that skilled, inspired people can focus on what they want without organizational problems where unknowledgeable people higher in a hierarchy get in their way. Hence OSM and many other groups try to keep the hierarchy very flat (some do, anyway). I do not mean to be rude about this, but it is obvious to me. I am not sure if needs to be spelled out. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Anonymous edits on OpenStreetMap through Tor
> But hiding your real IP from the server is only one part of tor. The > other is encrypting and obscuring the destination of all traffic so > that your ISP/government/etc can't listen in. This is what makes it > useful for people in places like Iran and China. They don't care about > hiding their IP from twitter. They care about getting around the > censorship and surveillance put in place by the government. It is sad how often people get this wrong. Tor only encrypts traffic between endpoints *within* the network created. As soon as it leaves the endpoint, which it inevitably does, it is just like normal traffic. Tor used to be much louder about their "we do not encrypt, only obfuscate IP address" vibe a while back, but now the footnotes seem much more muted.[1] It is well-known that people operate exit nodes for less than altruistic reasons, for "research" and otherwise. [2] I do not have a link on me right now, but there has been a lot of paranoia regarding intel agencies of different nations running exit nodes for snooping on traffic. I will be honest and call it that because I have never seen any evidence. I think this is important distinction to make, and Tor developers have always been honest that Tor is a false sense of security *when trusted unto itself as your only tool*. Please read the links and be informed. Since this list has lots of subscribers, some might not read the fine print of such assertions. If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me. Best, _AJS [1] http://www.torproject.org/download.html.en#Warning [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)#Weaknesses ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you've missed this ...
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:59 AM, Richard Weait wrote: > http://opengeodata.org/osm-founder-steve-coast-leaves-cloudmade I am not convinced it is real until Fake Steve C. says so. All jokes aside, best of luck to him. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] BDFL & Moderation
Steve, On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:26 PM, SteveC wrote: > I plan only to moderate people (for 24 hours) after taking a poll of key > people including Andy Allan, Matt Amos, Katie Filbert, Tom Hughes, Emilie > Laffray, Frederik Ramm, Ivan Sanchez, Grant Slater and Richard Weait. If you > think more than these would be good then let me know. Any moderation will be > announced to those people I just mentioned, and not publicly. Why not > publicly? On balance, it seems better to not call out individuals publicly > which might only make things worse and make them feel more upset, which is > not the purpose of a 'cooling off' period. Any one of those people I announce > it to could announce it publicly if they want to. > > I am happy to listen to a different panel, if one constitutes itself. If I > have full confidence in said panel, I'll consider handing over the power and > stepping back. A question in the interest of transparency: will you be publicly *documenting* when a person is locked out for a period? I completely understand not calling the person out publicly on the list, but will you keep a record on the wiki or something (I am not so picky on the actual form of documentation) of who in this group voted on locking out a particular user and the specific reason? I know, I know, that is more s*** people need to do, and really do not want to. I ask because I see a need to keep this very transparent to not feed into a user's impression that they are being bounced for thinking differently, not misbehaving (whether or not I agree, I would like to know why). That is all. Regards, _AJS ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Tom, > Sounding impressive is not a valid reason to consider something a good > idea... Basically he's suggesting replacing our current freeform tagging > with some complicated system of rules and ontologies. But being rude and oversimplifying is valid? As already mentioned, it does not have to be hierarchical and rigid, or even what you are worried about: mandatory. > It's completely not the "osm way" and isn't going to fly. I have not been working on OSM long, but I am sick of hearing this already from people. What you mean is below. > It's completely not the "osm way" *as I interpret it* and isn't going to fly > *as long as I am around*. There, fixed it for you. The beauty of OSM and similar open data projects, as I interpret it, is that there is wonderfully large dataset that allows people to do almost whatever they want. Not to mention that we are only talking about organizing the documenting of it, and learn about the inherent ontological structure. Some people might find that as valuable, if not more, than the maps. Does that mean you should just kick us out right now unless we agree to the mysteriously vague [my|OSM] way? Should we all agree to certain OSM non-principles that we will not enforce or consider as members of the group? I am just curious what this sentence is going to mean in the future, because "isn't going to fly" sounds slightly dictatorial in my mind. I could be wrong. I know this sounds like an opening to a flamewar. If I have gone too far, I am sorry. This is not a personal attack, but I think such talk is not in the spirit of the OSM way people like to toss around and defend. I think a little more consideration than "we have never done it that way before, so we won't be in the future" is warranted. Best, _AJS ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicated Refugee Camps
Margie, I had added those. When reviewing certain items, I added tags from the nodes I replaced with areas. I had never used earthquake=spontaneous_camp , but others had. I was not particularly sure. I left it alone. As for area tag, I was following OSM documentation on the issue. I was under the impression that it will correctly render an area if this tag is set, and I thought this was implied somewhere in the email chain or doc when areas was mentioned. Please correct if necessary. Best, _AJS 2010/1/24 Margie Roswell > I noticed a point had: > earthquake=spontaneous_camp > > Is it correct to just leave the tags as > source=Google, 2010-01-17 > tourism=camp_site > refugee=yes > > > > 2010/1/24 Margie Roswell : > > I'll be happy to work on this. > > > > I'm starting at #57, and working down from there. > > > > > > 2010/1/24 Raphaël Jacquot : > >> On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 09:08 -0600, Kate Chapman wrote: > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> I was extracting the refugee camp data and there are duplicates > >>> between point level and polygon level data. > >> > >> remove the point data if possible. > >> polygons allow for estimating number of people by surface occupied > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> talk mailing list > >> talk@openstreetmap.org > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Margie > > http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org > > http://www.FarmersMarketVideo.org > > http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org > > http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book > > > > > > -- > Margie > http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org > http://www.FarmersMarketVideo.org > http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org > http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Alexander J. Stein Cell: (201) 412-9479 Email: alhar...@gmail.com Skype: alexander.j.stein AIM: elduderino6886 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Jacmel Haiti, DigitalGlobe Imagery, and Road Alignment
David, Totally with you. I only relocated/deleted building outlines when they were actually in the middle of the road and deleted paths of all different sorts when they had no apparent relationship to anything (cutting across what looked like brush, at full zoom, where there were no tree cover and nothing suggesting a path), or seemed to conflict. Still, I appreciate your efforts. Someone has to start somewhere, and I am always afraid to take the plunge. I appreciate the initiative. Best, _AJS On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 5:27 PM, David G. Smith PE PLS < dsm...@synergist-tech.com> wrote: > I had digitized some of those roads and features around Jacmel late last > week from the DMA mapping, before the DigitalGlobe imagery or other good > sources were available, with the full anticipation that they would > eventually be updated via imagery. The bigger value to the DMA maps as I > saw it is that they had some local cultural information such as POIs and > place names, as well as basic road network. > > > > The DMA maps were scanned paper maps, rectified via NYPL MapWarper, no > surprise that they might be off a tad here and there. > > > > I have since then been updating via DigitalGlobe, tho there are still some > areas that need updating. > > > > So as far as “concern”, there shouldn’t be much, just stick with the more > current and update the older stuff – though be thoughtful when deleting > things outright. I think there is still some value to knowing what > potential road network there may be (even if it’s tracks not well visible > from the air- I’ve found some that are shown on the DMA maps but which are > only barely discernible via tree crowns vaguely outlining the road > underneath) and where there may be potential dwellings, et cetera > (potentially obscured by tree cover) - I have been designating some of those > more ambiguous ones (e.g. road network visible in DG imagery, but buildings > not obvious) as “residential area” as there is probably a reason the roads > are there. Obviously, if there is no tree cover, there is less ambiguity, > the road may just be off in another direction, inaccurately placed on the > DMA maps – worth looking around for it before deleting it outright – I’ve > found that to be the case in a few instances as well. > > > > > > David G. Smith PE PLS > > Synergist Technology Group, Inc. > > 570.280.6763 > > > > *From:* talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto: > talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] *On Behalf Of *Al Haraka > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2010 2:59 PM > *To:* Brad Neuhauser > *Cc:* talk@openstreetmap.org > *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Jacmel Haiti, DigitalGlobe Imagery, and Road > Alignment > > > > So it seems the consensus is to stick with DG, despite its problems. When > something better comes along, we start using that. Am I following > correctly? Some of the old stuff, especially the 1987 map, concerned me. > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Brad Neuhauser > wrote: > > At least that was my assumption. Even if the DG imagery is off, it's > more up-to-date than the 1987 map, so I moved the roads to align with > the DG imagery. Much of the city (esp central city, north) has been > realigned with the DG imagery. I also removed some streets traced > from the map that were clearly wrong, and tagged some others with the > fixme tag. Also, see the Street Names page for link to UN maps you > can use for additional info. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti/Street_names > > Brad (neuhausr) > > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Karl Guggisberg > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have the same problem. Brad Neuhauser said on the crisismapping list > that > > lot of work has been done before digitalglobe was available. In > particular, > > an old CIA map has been used, there are a lot of objects with a source > tag > > refering to it. I've started to delete individual buildings which are > > obviously badly off. I'm not sure whether the digitalglobe imagery is > > correctly rectified, thought. Anybody? > > > > Regards > > Karl > > > > Am 19.01.2010 20:24, schrieb Al Haraka: > > > > All, > > > > I understand we are all busy, but I have some Haiti questions. The area > > around Jacmel in the south appears to be very messy at the moment, and I > am > > only focusing on roads and basic infrastructure. The roads seem very far > > off, and at times some do not even seem to point to an artifact I can see > in > > the imagery. > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.22381&lon=-72.52094&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF > > I have tried cleaning it up
Re: [OSM-talk] Jacmel Haiti, DigitalGlobe Imagery, and Road Alignment
So it seems the consensus is to stick with DG, despite its problems. When something better comes along, we start using that. Am I following correctly? Some of the old stuff, especially the 1987 map, concerned me. On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Brad Neuhauser wrote: > At least that was my assumption. Even if the DG imagery is off, it's > more up-to-date than the 1987 map, so I moved the roads to align with > the DG imagery. Much of the city (esp central city, north) has been > realigned with the DG imagery. I also removed some streets traced > from the map that were clearly wrong, and tagged some others with the > fixme tag. Also, see the Street Names page for link to UN maps you > can use for additional info. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti/Street_names > > Brad (neuhausr) > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Karl Guggisberg > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have the same problem. Brad Neuhauser said on the crisismapping list > that > > lot of work has been done before digitalglobe was available. In > particular, > > an old CIA map has been used, there are a lot of objects with a source > tag > > refering to it. I've started to delete individual buildings which are > > obviously badly off. I'm not sure whether the digitalglobe imagery is > > correctly rectified, thought. Anybody? > > > > Regards > > Karl > > > > Am 19.01.2010 20:24, schrieb Al Haraka: > > > > All, > > > > I understand we are all busy, but I have some Haiti questions. The area > > around Jacmel in the south appears to be very messy at the moment, and I > am > > only focusing on roads and basic infrastructure. The roads seem very far > > off, and at times some do not even seem to point to an artifact I can see > in > > the imagery. > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.22381&lon=-72.52094&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF > > I have tried cleaning it up using the DigitalGlobe imagery, which I have > > assumed to be the best. Am I wrong here? What are other people using > and > > what are the current recommendations? Am I doing a bad job or wasting my > > time aligning the roads if they are this far off? I realize my use of DG > > may bias me, and I have not taken the time to compare. That being said, > I > > heard it was the most recent and expansive. > > Sorry for the newbishness here. I just want to help, and I heard Jacmel > and > > all points south will be needed soon. > > Regards, > > _AJS > > > > -- > > Alexander J. Stein > > Cell: (201) 412-9479 > > Email: alhar...@gmail.com > > Skype: alexander.j.stein > > AIM: elduderino6886 > > > > ___ > > talk mailing list > > talk@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > > > ___ > > talk mailing list > > talk@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Alexander J. Stein Cell: (201) 412-9479 Email: alhar...@gmail.com Skype: alexander.j.stein AIM: elduderino6886 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Jacmel Haiti, DigitalGlobe Imagery, and Road Alignment
Jeffery, Thanks for your quick reply. I have been checking the wiki periodically for info on new imagery assets and also noticed some mention of it in the IRC forum mentioned there. Problem is that I assume new DG data will be updated with the same alias in the Potlatch editor (JOSM gives me a headache since I am so amateur and I just want to get stuff done right now). So, despite hearing it was/is being updated, I am not sure what I am looking at from DG (GeoEye is a good counterexample, where there is a distinction between imagery from before and after 13 January in the dropdown box where you can select overlays). So, with that in mind, I will hold off for a bit until more becomes clear. I heard that the ERDAS imagery may be up and running? I will check with that later. Again, thanks for the info. I wanted to work on street names based on data we got from other sources, but the roads are so convoluted I could not cross-reference as easily as I had hoped. Best, _AJS On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Al Haraka wrote: > > > > I understand we are all busy, but I have some Haiti questions. The area > > around Jacmel in the south appears to be very messy at the moment, and I > am > > only focusing on roads and basic infrastructure. The roads seem very far > > off, and at times some do not even seem to point to an artifact I can see > in > > the imagery. > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.22381&lon=-72.52094&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF > > I have tried cleaning it up using the DigitalGlobe imagery, which I have > > assumed to be the best. Am I wrong here? What are other people using > and > > what are the current recommendations? Am I doing a bad job or wasting my > > time aligning the roads if they are this far off? I realize my use of DG > > may bias me, and I have not taken the time to compare. That being said, > I > > heard it was the most recent and expansive. > > Right now there are two sets of images that cover Jacmel, the > DigitalGlobe data from last week and the JAXA/ALOS satellite imagery. > As far as I know, most of or all of the satellite imagery we have > access to now isn't very well georeferenced so you may need to adjust > the image to get a "rough" fit before doing any corrections and/or > traces. > > You can see what we know about by checking out the following relation: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=388801 > > and this Wiki page: > > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti/Imagery_and_data_sources > > There is some new data from both Digital Globe and GeoEye being > imported so check the wiki page for updates. > > -- > Jeff Ollie > -- Alexander J. Stein Cell: (201) 412-9479 Email: alhar...@gmail.com Skype: alexander.j.stein AIM: elduderino6886 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Jacmel Haiti, DigitalGlobe Imagery, and Road Alignment
All, I understand we are all busy, but I have some Haiti questions. The area around Jacmel in the south appears to be very messy at the moment, and I am only focusing on roads and basic infrastructure. The roads seem very far off, and at times some do not even seem to point to an artifact I can see in the imagery. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.22381&lon=-72.52094&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF I have tried cleaning it up using the DigitalGlobe imagery, which I have assumed to be the best. Am I wrong here? What are other people using and what are the current recommendations? Am I doing a bad job or wasting my time aligning the roads if they are this far off? I realize my use of DG may bias me, and I have not taken the time to compare. That being said, I heard it was the most recent and expansive. Sorry for the newbishness here. I just want to help, and I heard Jacmel and all points south will be needed soon. Regards, _AJS -- Alexander J. Stein Cell: (201) 412-9479 Email: alhar...@gmail.com Skype: alexander.j.stein AIM: elduderino6886 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
