Re: [Talk-se] Upplandsleden Hiking trail wiki page + relation are MIA

[Christopher Barham]

Ahh - I see! Thanks for pointing it out.

It looks good.

I did think maybe Etapp 20 was not tagged correctly as it does not render as an 
orange line near Färnebofjärden National Park on the relation view screen - but 
it seems it is tagged with the correct relation.

Thanks,
Chas

> On 31 Aug 2022, at 07:25, John Bäckstrand  wrote:
> 
> It just seems the page was split so that Upplandsleden is now on 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sweden/Hiking_trails/National_trails 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sweden/Hiking_trails/National_trails>. 
> The relation it points to is 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/241043 
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/241043>
> 
> Does this look correct?
> 
> /John Bäckstrand
> 
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 8:18 AM Christopher Barham  <mailto:cbar...@pobox.com>> wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> A while ago I hiked and mapped bits of Upplandsleden, but it seems the 
> relation has disappeared along with mention of it on the hiking page on the 
> wiki.
> 
> Does anyone know what the reason for removal is? Can it be recovered or 
> repaired?
> 
> The official route: 
> https://www.upplandsstiftelsen.se/upplandsleden/etapper__168 
> <https://www.upplandsstiftelsen.se/upplandsleden/etapper__168>
> OSM wiki hiking page (missing the entry now - no notes in the history) : 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sweden/Hiking_trails 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sweden/Hiking_trails>
> OSM search for relation: 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Upplandsleden 
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Upplandsleden>
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Chas (OSM user Chas678) 
> 
> 
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[Talk-se] Upplandsleden Hiking trail wiki page + relation are MIA

[Christopher Barham]

Hi!

A while ago I hiked and mapped bits of Upplandsleden, but it seems the relation 
has disappeared along with mention of it on the hiking page on the wiki.

Does anyone know what the reason for removal is? Can it be recovered or 
repaired?

The official route: https://www.upplandsstiftelsen.se/upplandsleden/etapper__168
OSM wiki hiking page (missing the entry now - no notes in the history) : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sweden/Hiking_trails
OSM search for relation: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Upplandsleden


Cheers,
Chas (OSM user Chas678) 


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[Talk-se] lake names - multipolygon problem

[Christopher Barham]

Hi,

I am have an issue tagging these 2 lakes - there is a multipolygon error and 
the names do not render.  can anyone advise where I went wrong?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/query?lat=65.44581=21.72549 


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[Talk-se] Hiking trails

[Christopher Barham]

Hi,
I’ve done some section hiking and mapping of trails in Sweden.

I notice the trail map status page is not updating - especially for 
Roslagsleden (which I walked/mapped a while ago):
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Sweden/Hiking_trails 


It should say more  than 7% is mapped :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/286010#map=10/60.0617/18.9713 


Does anyone know what is going wrong? Are the tags messed up?

Cheers,
Chas

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[talk-au] Youtube video where OSM used for street name analysis

[Christopher Barham]

Hi,

I thought list members may be interested in this interesting Youtube video 
about using OSM data for Aus street name analysis:
https://youtu.be/LZG24lpzGXQ 

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Re: [talk-au] place=? An oldie but no past conclusion.

[Christopher Barham]

> On 03 May 2016, at 14:22, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 

> 
> Why judge on the population? 
> Larger populations get more services - Police, Medical, Education ... they go 
> hand in hand. 
> Populations are usually stated - on the entry signs to towns, villages .. and 
> collected by the ABS. So verifiable and accessible.
> Yes they do change .. but not by vast amounts quickly. 
> Usually the relationship between population centres remains fairly static .. 
> if one grows so do the surrounding ones. 
> Much easier to quickly asses and correctly tag this way. So it satisfies the 
> KISS principle.


City is not just a function of population - It’s can also be a political 
appointment/status? - e.g. Charters Towers and Redcliffe are cities : 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia 



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Re: [talk-au] Proposed Data import - Queensland, Australia: Peaks and Mountains

[Christopher Barham]

Hi Simon,

Ref Elevation data for mountain nodes, 
Following your question, I realised that the height should be available from 
the NASA SRTM datasets; so have just tried to add it to the peaks/mountains 
nodes as an ele tag in metres.
Have added a section to the wiki import proposal page on adding the ele tag 
with values from SRTM here: http://bit.ly/1lNmCyN

Test output file of the result is here (mountains with heights) : 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/446994/osmQldPeaks/test_with_srtm.osm

currently the ele values are floats, so I'll add a manual step to round the 
metres from floats to integers before any import.

Cheers,
Chas

On 4 May 2014, at 0:08, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:

 Christopher,
 
 I just browsed through the .osm file and then checked the .csv, is it
 correct that the import (and the original data) doesn't actually have
 any elevation information?
 
 Simon
 
 Am 03.05.2014 21:00, schrieb Christopher Barham:
 Hi,
 I'd like to propose a small data import of ~2500 nodes describing peaks and 
 mountains in Queensland sourced from Qld govt Place names Gazetteer.
 
 I've had a look at the data to import, and also the existing OSM nodes, and 
 think this could be a viable.  There would be manual review required before 
 uploading, especially to ensure we do not duplicate the existing ~500 nodes, 
 but feel it could be worth it as we are unlikely to get the data any other 
 way for the more remote parts of the state.
 
 I've documented the proposed import steps on the wiki here:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/The_Department_of_Environment_and_Resource_Management/Peaks_And_Mountains_Import
 
 That page also has links to relevant data files I have created for review.
 
 Please let me have your feedback on this proposal.
 
 Regards,
 Chas
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Re: [talk-au] Proposed Data import - Queensland, Australia: Peaks and Mountains

[Christopher Barham]

Hi Jason,

 I agree that makes sense, as the DDS sub-domain has no landing page, and the 
data.qld.gov.au landing page links through to DDS anyway.  I will update the 
source-ref tag.

Chris

On 4 May 2014, at 11:23, Jason Ward jasonjwa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Chris,
 
 Any thoughts on shifting the source references to data.qld.gov.au?  At some 
 point in the future a whole of government permission (like the TMR one) would 
 negate the need to update attribution statements.
 
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution#Queensland_Government_data_.28Department_of_Transport_and_Main_Roads_-_TMR.29
 
 Cheers,
 
 Jason
 



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Re: [talk-au] Proposed data import. Queensland peaks and mountains

[Christopher Barham]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the feedback.  Regarding your comments, when you say you compared 
the nodes to aerial photos and old maps, do you mean these peak/mountain nodes 
in the  proposed import? Or, are you mentioning it anecdotally regarding a 
comparison of other nodes from past data releases?  I ask because these are 
culled from the newly updated (last month) gazetteer dataset, which I noticed 
has lots of entries in the comments column describing accuracy improvements.  
That was why it seemed to me that the mountains and peaks would be an 
attractive, manageable subset to import.  

Regarding your comment about local government being the custodians for the 
peak/mountain names, I think this is incorrect, although LGA's are responsible 
for naming some things: 
http://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/mapping-data/place-names/how-places-named/what-can-be-named
Since the Place Names Act of 1994 DNRM and this gazetteer dataset, I thought 
was considered to actually be the 'ground truth' for names, ( see 
http://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/mapping-data/place-names/how-places-named )

On positional accuracy, I agree with you that survey is better; in fact 
somewhere in the gazetteer they say that names of feature extents are located 
at an approximate centroid of the feature only.  This was the reasoning behind 
suggesting only the names seen to be in error would be corrected for 
pre-existing nodes, the position and any other key/values being left alone.  As 
mountain names are an unmarked cultural attribute, the government is in charge 
of them :-) 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Geographical_Names_in_Australasia .  
 I don't see how survey would collect the name, although it could refine the 
position of the peak.

Have I addressed your concerns? Or are you still against this import?

BTW: What do you mean by a global input? This would be a state-local import 
only.

Cheers,
Chris



On 4 May 2014, at 15:17, Tim Ney neyfami...@gmail.com wrote:

 I worked for the department of natural resources and mines so some 6 years 
 and I have experimented with the place name data.  I don't want to be a 
 downer but I found the information to be so inaccurate as to border on 
 useless.  I compared the nodes to aerial photos and to 1 mile and 5 mile hand 
 drawn maps i have dating back to the 1930's.  Nodes were spelt wrong, names 
 wrong altogether and locations were up to several kilometres out.  I would be 
 hesitate to use any data from the place names database.  Place names are 
 normally the custodian of local government.  I would not like to see my 
 manually entered nodes overridden with incorrect spelling from a global 
 input.  The only way this concept would be viable is to import shire by shire 
 and confirm names with each local government or other reliable source such as 
 very old survey plans and maps.  I am a surveyor by trade with a keen 
 interest in ensuring ground truthed data rather than global input.  Tim
 
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Re: [talk-au] Proposed Data import - Queensland, Australia: Peaks and Mountains

[Christopher Barham]

Hi Simon,

I tried to look up the accuracy of SRTM at http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/ and 
at http://www.ga.gov.au/meta/ANZCW0703014016.html where it seems to be quoted 
as within 10m for 99% of points.  As GA.gov.au seem to use the SRTM, I wonder 
if Qld NRM state government were to include the elevation in the dataset, it 
would probably be a derived SRTM value anyway ;-)

Anyway, I agree with you, I'm leaning toward leaving them off the changeset if 
the import goes ahead, as this data, unlike the names, can be verified on the 
ground.

Cheers,
Chris


On 4 May 2014, at 17:19, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:

 Hi Christpher
 
 I wouldn't add data from STRM in. On the hand it is easy to extract from
 SRTM itself (as you have seen), on the other hand, particularly for
 peaks, it is sure to be way off.
 
 It just seem to be a tad bit silly that the government dataset doesn't
 include elevation with the dataset in the first place.
 
 Simon
 
 Am 04.05.2014 09:01, schrieb Christopher Barham:
 Hi Simon,
 
 Ref Elevation data for mountain nodes, 
 Following your question, I realised that the height should be available from 
 the NASA SRTM datasets; so have just tried to add it to the peaks/mountains 
 nodes as an ele tag in metres.
 Have added a section to the wiki import proposal page on adding the ele tag 
 with values from SRTM here: http://bit.ly/1lNmCyN
 
 Test output file of the result is here (mountains with heights) : 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/446994/osmQldPeaks/test_with_srtm.osm
 
 currently the ele values are floats, so I'll add a manual step to round the 
 metres from floats to integers before any import.
 
 Cheers,
 Chas
 
 On 4 May 2014, at 0:08, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:
 
 Christopher,
 
 I just browsed through the .osm file and then checked the .csv, is it
 correct that the import (and the original data) doesn't actually have
 any elevation information?
 
 Simon
 
 Am 03.05.2014 21:00, schrieb Christopher Barham:
 Hi,
 I'd like to propose a small data import of ~2500 nodes describing peaks 
 and mountains in Queensland sourced from Qld govt Place names Gazetteer.
 
 I've had a look at the data to import, and also the existing OSM nodes, 
 and think this could be a viable.  There would be manual review required 
 before uploading, especially to ensure we do not duplicate the existing 
 ~500 nodes, but feel it could be worth it as we are unlikely to get the 
 data any other way for the more remote parts of the state.
 
 I've documented the proposed import steps on the wiki here:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/The_Department_of_Environment_and_Resource_Management/Peaks_And_Mountains_Import
 
 That page also has links to relevant data files I have created for review.
 
 Please let me have your feedback on this proposal.
 
 Regards,
 Chas
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Re: [talk-au] Proposed Data import - Queensland, Australia: Peaks and Mountains

[Christopher Barham]

Hi Simon,
There is no elevation information; data items are name, alt_name and location.


Chas



On 4 May 2014, at 0:08, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:

 Christopher,
 
 I just browsed through the .osm file and then checked the .csv, is it
 correct that the import (and the original data) doesn't actually have
 any elevation information?
 
 Simon
 
 Am 03.05.2014 21:00, schrieb Christopher Barham:
 Hi,
 I'd like to propose a small data import of ~2500 nodes describing peaks and 
 mountains in Queensland sourced from Qld govt Place names Gazetteer.
 
 I've had a look at the data to import, and also the existing OSM nodes, and 
 think this could be a viable.  There would be manual review required before 
 uploading, especially to ensure we do not duplicate the existing ~500 nodes, 
 but feel it could be worth it as we are unlikely to get the data any other 
 way for the more remote parts of the state.
 
 I've documented the proposed import steps on the wiki here:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/The_Department_of_Environment_and_Resource_Management/Peaks_And_Mountains_Import
 
 That page also has links to relevant data files I have created for review.
 
 Please let me have your feedback on this proposal.
 
 Regards,
 Chas
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Re: [talk-au] Automating the replacement of abbreviation of street names

[Christopher Barham]

This official abbreviation list may help building any rule set:
http://meteor.aihw.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/429840/meteorItemView/long

Chris

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 On 2 Mar 2014, at 11:40 am, Jason Ward jasonjwa...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Sounds fine.  A quick google indicates the approach has historical 
 endorsement [1] but could you define the geographical scope of these changes 
 and the logic/software you'd be using to do these changes?
 
 Note [2] is a worthwhile read if you haven't spotted it already.
 
 [1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openstreetmap/lW7E9_-TEe8
 [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy
 
 Cheers,
 
 Jason
 
 
 On 2 March 2014 15:47, Frank sundowne...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
 I'm toying with automating the replacement of abbreviation of street names 
 e.g. St to Street, Ave to Avenue etc. It is tedious to do that by hand and 
 the automation process can limit the replacements to tagged 'highway's and 
 to the end of the name tag so things like St Andrews won't get changed to 
 Street Andrews! It would be used on .osm files making the changes, a 
 separate text file documenting the changes (so you can check), the 
 abbreviations and their replacements would be in a text file so additions 
 could be made by anyone (in any language). To upload the changes JOSM would 
 be used.
 
 Thoughts?
 
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Re: [talk-au] Incorporating public information into OSM - Legal situation

[Christopher Barham]

 

On 2013-08-20 12:30, Ian Sergeant wrote: 

 On 20 August 2013 18:29, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
 
 Did they confirm with Geoscience that the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 
 Australia is compatible with ODBL?
 
 This is one of the reservations that some of us had with changing to ODBL.
 
 Maybe. The issue for both licences is just getting the attribution right. I 
 think you've taken the view that just an attribution in the data is 
 sufficient, and nothing on the map itself? I think it is best in both cases 
 just to agree with the data owner what constitutes reasonable attribution for 
 the medium, and that we can deliver it.

Ref CC-BY-SA3 - it seems to be fairly explicit on these pages: 

* http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Australia
*
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission

I think the attribution should not go on the source tags of the
nodes/ways, but instead on the changeset and the wiki. Chris 
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Re: [talk-au] Bicentennial National Trail

[Christopher Barham]

On 2013-04-30 10:02, John Henderson wrote:
SNIP

I'd be delighted to offer what help I can.

/SNIP

If it's any use, Qld portion dataset is available and may be on a 
compatible licence:

http://www.nrm.qld.gov.au/services_resources/item_details.php?item_id=34193

The data is hard to link to: in the Search Terms box near the bottom 
enter Bicentennial

http://dds.information.qld.gov.au/DDS/Search.aspx

Cheers,
Chris


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[talk-au] List search and archive web tool (was Re: Suburbs in Australia)

[Christopher Barham]

For list traffic and search try visiting :
http://markmail.org/search/?q=city+list%3Aorg.openstreetmap.talk-au

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 02:03:28 +1100, Darren Burt wrote:
SNIP

 Can you provide a direct link or forward information on this?

 After being told about the maillist, I went looking for information
specific for Australia, and there was only date based (monthly)
archives linked. Unless I indexed the information myself, there
appeared to be no way to search for information at all.


/SNIP

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Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns

[Christopher Barham]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:58:26 -0500, Richard Weait wrote:

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Chris Barham  wrote:

some Australian places have changed from cities to towns on;
changeset was:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14217241 [1]

I've emailed to the editor to ask the source for the change as I
believe some are now incorrect.


Did the account reply to you in a satisfactory manner?  I don't see
a correspondent in this thread that I relate to that username
porjo.  Have the edits in question been reverted? 


I did receive a response from the user.  He was unaware of the 
Australian wiki guidance page, or the designated cities.
He states his criteria was purely population size as he believed a city 
to require population of ~100k or more.


No reversion has been done for the changeset; as a result I have 
manually re-tagged the Queensland cities, and intend to revisit should 
we reach a tagging

consensus that would require further amendment.

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Re: [talk-au] Back in editing - Tracks and 4wd areas

[Christopher Barham]

On 05/01/2012, at 16:59, David Findlay da...@woodypointcomms.com.au wrote:
snip
 
 How should I mark 4wd trails? 

Does this help? : 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines

Chris

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Re: [talk-au] ODbL data.gov.au permission granted

[Christopher Barham]

On 24/09/2011, at 12:10 AM, Grant Slater wrote:

 The Licensing Working Group has obtained explicit special permission
 to incorporate geographic datasets from data.gov.au in the
 OpenStreetMap project database published under any free and open
 license, including ODbL
SNIP

This is great news!  Congratulations are due to the LWG for making this happen.

 
 And that leaves these others where we are not yet sure exactly where
 they came from:
 * Queensland police stations
 * NSW Geographic Names Board places (importer contacted)
 * Queensland national parks, state forests and conservation areas
 


* I don't think Qld Police Stations have been imported.. at least not in their 
entirety, as I found one recently at Augenthella that wasn't mapped.
* Qld Nat Parks etc data source and import is documented on the wiki at: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/The_Department_of_Environment_and_Resource_Management/Protected_Areas_Import


Regards,
Chris
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[talk-au] Charleville, Qld survey suggestions sought

[Christopher Barham]

Hi,
I'm in Charleville, Qld for a couple of days with an iPhone, a garmin oregon 
GPS and, from tomorrow, a vehicle.
The place is pretty much unsurveyed, but the DCDB has been used to add streets 
so the road geometry is ok. 
Will do what I can (street names etc) , but I wondered if there is anything you 
guys could suggest would benefit from a survey around and about... maybe 
further out from the town itself?

Cheers
Chris

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[talk-au] Very cheap Garmin Vista Hcx - legit?

[Christopher Barham]

Hi
Is anybody good at spotting eBay scams? This dude has 64 new Garmin Vista HCx's 
on eBay for about $120 less than comparable offers. Apart from zero feedback 
and the price, it looks legit to me. 
Hmm - any thoughts on a possible GPS bargain? (I was thinking it could be ok as 
Canada is awash with Garmin's and it's paypal protected.)
iPhone URL:
New Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx Handheld GPS Receiver

Browser URL:
New Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx Handheld GPS Receiver


Chas



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