Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Clay Smalley]

As a gay man, I was considering attending SOTM 2024, but I'm having
reservations after reading what Aimee and Amanda have brought up.

The bid for SOTM 2024 put forward by OSM Kenya [1] has the following
paragraph:

> Nairobi has a more progressive outlook compared to other regions in the
> country, and there is a growing LGBTQ+ community and support organisations
> within the city. Nairobi is a multicultural city, with people from all over
> the world calling it home. Being a major economic and commercial center in
> Kenya, the city attracts people from all over the world. This gives the
> city its diversity and unique features making it one of the best and most
> tourist connection hubs in Africa. Nairobi also serves as a host to several
> international and regional conferences, conventions and seminars and boasts
> of a zero-tolerance policy on discrimination, harassment or any form of
> mistreatment. This includes conferences like the Internet Governance Forum
> in 2023, the United Nations Environment Assembly in 2022 and the
> International Conference on Population and Development in 2019.
>
> In relation to the local LGBTQ+ laws, in 2023, the Supreme Court of Kenya
> ruled that the National Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (NGLHRC)
> must be allowed to officially register as a non-governmental organization
> allowing for the community to associate freely. These rulings are a major
> victory for the LGBTQ+ community in Kenya and are also a significant step
> forward for human rights in Kenya.
>
I appreciate the time and effort the OSM Kenya team put into their bid, and
I'm sure their heart is in the right place regarding LGBT rights. However,
I would like more context from the team here, considering the presence of
anti-LGBT legislation in the country.

Does Equaldex's assessment [2] of LGBT legal rights and public opinion in
Kenya match your understanding of the country?

Are anti-LGBT laws enforced in Kenya? If so, how? Are they enforced
uniformly across the country, in both rural and urban areas?

Is public opinion different towards visiting LGBT foreigners vs. LGBT
locals? If so, how?

If I visit Nairobi, how likely is it that I will experience harassment or
discrimination, whether by ordinary citizens or legal authorities?

[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2024/Call_for_venues/Nairobi#Is_it_a_LGBT_friendly_space
?
[2] https://www.equaldex.com/region/kenya


On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 2:02 PM Federica Gaspari 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from the
> global OpenStreetMap community again!
>
>
>
> The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially
> announce that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community, State
> of the Map (SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya from September
> 6th-8th 2024! This landmark event will bring together passionate mappers,
> data enthusiasts, technologists, and community members from all corners of
> the globe to celebrate the spirit of collaboration and open mapping.
>
>
>
> Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the
> upcoming State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid format.
> Building on the valuable lessons and experiences from the previous events,
> the SotM Organising Committee is committed to making this edition even more
> accessible to everyone who wishes to partake in this grand celebration of
> open mapping, sharing passionate voices with the entire community.
>
>
>
> Learn more about the SotM 2024 announcement on the OpenStreetMap blog: 
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2023/08/14/announcing-state-of-the-map-2024-september-6-to-8-2024-join-us-in-nairobi-and-online/
>
>
>
> More details about the organization will be soon communicated.
>
>
>
> Federica Gaspari on behalf of the SotM Organising Committee
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Clay Smalley]

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 5:52 PM Florimond Berthoux <
florimond.berth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> La loi française contre les propos haineux s'applique à tous en France.
>

Va téléphone à la police.
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Clay Smalley]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020, 4:08 PM john whelan  wrote:

> In the diverse collection of people we have in OSM you will be hard
> pressed not to offend someone.
>

Really? That hasn't been a problem for me.

I hadn't realised the name Kathleen was one that either gender could use
> and I apologise for making an assumption about the gender of the person
> using it.
>

I typed out my message and sent it before my mail client refreshed and
showed Kathleen's reply. She's clearly a woman. Quit being obtuse.

-Clay (they/them)

>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Clay Smalley]

I'm noticing a pattern here in the replies to this email:

Only men have replied. This is, unfortunately, par for the course on the
OSM mailing lists. The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional hostility
towards women in the OSM community. The replies themselves are the best
evidence of this.

These men replying have taken it upon themselves to explain to a woman what
constitutes misogyny. News flash: you do not get to decide what offends
other people. If you are a man, misogyny will never happen to you by
definition. If you are a man, you have never been, are not, and will never
be a victim of misogyny. This isn't your area of expertise. Listen to the
experts.

Some men replying have even mentioned how this draft letter hurts their
feelings. These men need to slow down and consider for a moment that their
temporarily hurt feelings are less important than the safety of women.
Men's feelings are irrelevant to issues where women are victims.

As far as I know, various OSM-affiliated groups have codes of conduct, but
there isn't one governing these mailing lists. We need to adopt a code of
conduct yesterday.

-Clay (they/them)

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:13 PM Celine Jacquin  wrote:

> Hello everybody
> I hope you are all well
>
> We, several groups, chapters, organizations and individuals, have reacted
> to the conversation in the osm-talk-list (
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html)
> considering that it is an incident symptomatic of the problem we have faced
> for many years in the community, which is one of the greatest obstacles to
> diversity at all levels of OSM. Time to make a real change.
> That is why we have developed a beginning of statement on the desirable
> mechanisms to work solidly on the rules of coexistence and improve
> diversity.
>
> We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who feels represented to
> sign it. Translations are in preparation (any help is welcome):
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing
>
>
> On behalf of the signatories
> Best regards
>
> Céline Jacquin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Your experience in reaching out to Maps.me users ?

[Clay Smalley]

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 9:51 AM Tomas Straupis 
wrote:

> 2020-11-12, kt, 16:41 Clay Smalley rašė:
> > Anyway, this is clearly off topic and has veered into your personal
> > bugaboos about governments you don't like.
>
>   I see you do not manage to differentiate historical episodes and
> CURRENT situation.
>

Is May 2020 not recent enough?

> Maps.me doesn't seem to have any involvement in Russian military
> > operations. Please keep your criticisms relevant to the subject at hand.
>
>   If you are not familiar with how things work in Moscow or relations
> of owners of maps.me to Kremlin then refrain from pointless
> commenting.
>

Would you like to share this information with me and the rest of the
mailing list, and demonstrate how it is relevant?

>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Your experience in reaching out to Maps.me users ?

[Clay Smalley]

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 9:25 AM Tomas Straupis 
wrote:

> > Besides, Mapbox is known to work with United States government
> > agencies as well as military weapons manufacturers (so-called
> > "defense contractors"). Does this bother you at all?
>
>   I have no information about the United States being involved in
> starting wars against neighbours and annexing their territories.
>

Here, let me help you out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_%282020%29

Anyway, this is clearly off topic and has veered into your personal
bugaboos about governments you don't like. Regardless of your views on
Russia, Maps.me doesn't seem to have any involvement in Russian military
operations. Please keep your criticisms relevant to the subject at hand.

-Clay
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Re: [OSM-talk] Your experience in reaching out to Maps.me users ?

[Clay Smalley]

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 5:36 AM Tomas Straupis 
wrote:

> Maps.me (or crap.me as it is known in some places) is a known bad actor:
> * It disguises as made in Holland, when it is actually made in Moscow
> by a company having close ties with the Kremlin.
>

I don't think this is accurate or even relevant. I took a quick look around
their website and found that they clearly display that they have five
offices in Russia and four elsewhere. Every interaction I've had with
Maps.me maintainers has been with someone who has a Russian surname. I
couldn't find any dishonest messaging about being primarily located in the
Netherlands.

Besides, Mapbox is known to work with United States government agencies as
well as military weapons manufacturers (so-called "defense contractors").
Does this bother you at all?

-Clay

>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-transit] Call for verification (Was: Re: VANDALISM !)

[Clay Smalley]

Everyone knows who you're talking about at this point, and nobody cares.
Use the remaining day or so of your temporary ban to work on some hobbies
outside of OpenStreetMap.

And be careful about who you say isn't local. I'm moving to Northern
Indiana next week and I'll certainly get the chance to survey many of the
estimated stop positions I remotely mapped. I hope to see you around as we
continue working on the same things.

On Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 12:21 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-transit <
talk-tran...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> it was one person in CA adding 400 unverified tags to rail service in
> chicago.
>
> one just 818 m, away from my home.
>
>
> SATURDAY, August 22, 2020 12:32 PM -05:00 from Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com >:
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 22. Aug 2020, at 10:15, pangoSE  wrote:
> >
> > Here is yet another example of bad data in our database:
>
> fix it ;-)
>
> Of course OpenStreetMap contains errors, just like any other source, and
> probably more, given that most contributors are laymen and have very few
> experience (few total edits, often just 1).
>
> On the other hand, we may be very fast when something changes, very
> flexible in emergencies (think Haiti), and have interesting niche data that
> commercial and public data providers don’t care for.
>
> It all depends on the local community in the end. If you have reached a
> critical mass to have locals everywhere, it will work great and bugs will
> wash out. Otherwise the data might get stale just like any other data. Also
> using the data is essential to find the problems, for example the 212 story
> garage is likely fixed now ;-)
>
> I tend to agree with Steve A.
>
> Cheers Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] VANDALISM !

[Clay Smalley]

For those who aren't following, the DWG recently decided on a two-day ban
for the person who posted this, for the exact behavior they're exhibiting
right now: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3850

jdd 3, please take a break. You have better things to do.

I look forward to when you demonstrate the ability to communicate
collaboratively.

Best,
Clay

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 6:08 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> FYI;
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism
>
> Purposeful removal or degradation of data that are known to be correct,
>
> Deliberate adding incorrect data;
>
> People who revert other people's work should expect to be able to
> demonstrate that the reversion was well reasoned and proportionate to the
> issue.
>
> Not There;
> Unverified  if someone puts in 400 +  unverified tags in one edit,
>
> If someone reverts, 400 + edits,  in one edit, done on good faith by
> others over the years to conform to there way of thinking,
>
> If someone deletes, 400 + edits,  in one edit, done on good faith by
> others over the years to conform to there way of thinking,
>
> If someone refuses to let others, edit because they have taken over
> that type edit, all bus stops in the same area,
> all train stations in the same area, all boundaries in the same area.
>
> Edits that do not conform to the subject wiki.
>
> if someone downloads data that will create one mulitipolygon, against all
> wikis
>
> Also there is no wiki on unverified edits.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[Clay Smalley]

Do you have a more authoritative source for municipal boundaries than the
US Census Bureau?

If you don't, it'll be hard for you to convince everyone here that the US
Census data is wrong.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:03 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> FYI;
>
> for all of you who are not in country and do not understand about usa
> city bounders.
>
> https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/contact.html
>
> and did you read what the other guy said, this is the census data not true
> map data.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89598349.
>
>
> Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:52 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
> jumba...@gmail.com>:
>
> What link are you using for this? I downloaded the places boundary
> information from here:
> https://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/geo/shapefiles/index.php
>
> As I said, I'm happy to change, but I can't change without actual
> information.
>
> On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 18:43 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
> > i am looking at the TIRGER web, show’s the real map online and
> > nothing you did matches.
> >
> > i live here and a block away from the edens spur just saying.
> >
> > > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:38 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
> > > jumba...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > It would probably be best if these suggestions were added in the
> > > changeset comments, as they don't need to be discussed on the
> > > mailing
> > > list.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 11:36 -0400, James Umbanhowar wrote:
> > > > I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust the
> > > map to
> > > > better authoritative data or information. My motivation for this
> > > was
> > > > to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have consistent
> > > outer
> > > > and inner members. The changes came in two changesets,
> > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and
> > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909
> > > >
> > > > The first changeset just made the relation consistent with outer
> > > ways
> > > > and inner ways. I preserved all the ways that were in the
> > > relation
> > > > that
> > > > lead to the inconsistency and they are still in the database with
> > > a
> > > > note attached to them. The second came after a changeset comment
> > > that
> > > > noted that the fixed relation didn't match and earlier unbroken
> > > > relation, in particular around the Edens Spur. I then changed the
> > > > border in this area to match the 2019 Tiger data in that area
> > > only.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 02:37 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Changeset #89220282
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Monday, August 17, 2020 6:34 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> > > > > > miketh...@gmail.com>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> > > > > > talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > tiger is up to date on the web map using the current data i
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > think he picked the wrong year,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That relation was first created in 2009. According to the
> > > source
> > > > > > tag, it used 2008 Tiger data, so the original mapper probably
> > > > > > used
> > > > > > the best available TIGER data at the time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > also all he got was a white line in his first try.
> > > > > > > Way: 813726663
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That way needs to be added to the relation, and the relation
> > > must
> > > > > > close.
> > >
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Street Name

[Clay Smalley]

"Weg" is German, approximately means "way." It's right as it is, no
abbreviation.

Funny though that it's outside of the German Sprachraum. Is Leavenworth a
town with a lot of German heritage?
On May 29, 2014 4:37 PM, "Clifford Snow"  wrote:

> I need help with a street name. In Leavenworth, WA there is a street named
> "Edelweiss Weg" that I want to add. Is Weg an abbreviation for something?
> It will be tagged highway=service service=alley. Google translate doesn't
> help.
>
> If it is an abbreviation, should it be expanded as we usually do?
>
> Thanks from someone with a language deficit.
>
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>
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[OSM-talk] Best way to download data of route relations?

[Clay Smalley]

I want to make a map of San Francisco bus routes using the route relations
in SF. Is there a good way for me to get data consisting of a line (or
lines) for each bus route? My problem with downloading OSM data directly is
that a single way could be part of many different routes. Essentially what
I want is a set of lines for each individual route, with overlapping lines
wherever multiple routes share the same street.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders

[Clay Smalley]

Interesting. How much of a connection is there between the Russian OSM
community and the English-speaking OSM community (that essentially runs the
project)?
On Mar 18, 2014 11:45 AM, "Marc Gemis"  wrote:

> You might be interested in this blog post:
>
> http://shtosm.ru/all/chto-s-krymom/
>
> I use Google translate to turn it into "English". The Russian mappers
> already have a proposal in place to update the borders
>
> regards
>
> m
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Ed Loach  wrote:
>
>> Clifford Snow wrote:
>>
>> > Should this section be restated in the OSM wiki under boundaries?
>>
>> Perhaps better to link to the OSMF document?
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Double-clicking on OSM map does not centre the map

[Clay Smalley]

That's totally understandable. Though to do that, I usually scroll. I'm
accustomed to behavior where I scroll if I want to zoom without centering,
and double click if I want to zoom and center.

Though I'm sure there are issues like touch screen interfaces where using a
scroll wheel isn't an option. I totally support the change, and I'm sure
I'll get used to it soon enough.
On Jul 21, 2013 9:36 PM, "John Firebaugh"  wrote:

> The rationale for making the change in Leaflet is to make it so that you
> can zoom in several levels on a given point without needing to reposition
> your cursor at each zoom level. For that reason, I prefer the new behavior.
>
> Included in the next set of changes to the map UI is the ability to add a
> marker to the permalink. It will be positionable via dragging. No URL
> editing required:
>
> http://mapui.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Tom MacWright  wrote:
>
>> The relevant change in Leaflet:
>> https://github.com/Leaflet/Leaflet/pull/1582?source=cc - the new
>> behavior matches all other map sites and frameworks I can think of, with
>> the exception of Bing. You can replicate the old behavior by clicking the
>> map and dragging it to change the center.
>>
>> There's no easy way to 'get the old behavior back' without doing a core
>> patch to Leaflet, and given that this is the expected behavior with a clear
>> 'other way to do it', I personally don't think it's a high priority to
>> change.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Clay Smalley wrote:
>>
>>> I've noticed the same issue. I liked having an easy way to center the
>>> map. Is anyone averse to having this changed back?
>>>  On Jul 21, 2013 8:02 PM, "Andrew Errington" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It used to be that if you double-clicked on the map it would re-centre
>>>> on the clicked point and zoom in by one level.  Now it doesn't.  It
>>>> zooms in, but doesn't re-centre the map.  When did this behaviour
>>>> change?  Is it desirable?
>>>>
>>>> I don't like it because now I can't centre the map (by
>>>> double-clicking) and make a markerlink (by editing the permalink
>>>> lat/lon to mlat/mlon).
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Double-clicking on OSM map does not centre the map

[Clay Smalley]

I've noticed the same issue. I liked having an easy way to center the map.
Is anyone averse to having this changed back?
On Jul 21, 2013 8:02 PM, "Andrew Errington"  wrote:

> It used to be that if you double-clicked on the map it would re-centre
> on the clicked point and zoom in by one level.  Now it doesn't.  It
> zooms in, but doesn't re-centre the map.  When did this behaviour
> change?  Is it desirable?
>
> I don't like it because now I can't centre the map (by
> double-clicking) and make a markerlink (by editing the permalink
> lat/lon to mlat/mlon).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Impossible changeset

[Clay Smalley]

Could this be related to the current OS upgrade on the OSM US server? Can
we get some input from Ian?
On Apr 11, 2013 2:43 AM, "Vincent Pottier"  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've made few changes near [1]
>
> I have made changes with JOSM yesterday. I was unable to upload them. So I
> have saved the file. I have tried also yesterday to make some changes with
> Potlatch2 in the same hamlet. Potlatch could not create a changeset.
>
>
> Today, I have tried to upload my changes from yesterday with JOSM. But
> JOSM can't create a changeset. So I canceled the upload.
> I have tried again to make some changes with Potlatch. Few changes were
> accepted in the changeset 15685756 : modifying the name of a church, adding
> a hamlet.
> So I tried to upload my JOSM's changes. And I have stille the same problem
> : JOSM stops on the stage "creating a changeset..." (into French)...
> And again I tried to make some changes with Potlatch2 (adding a point
> cemetary). Now Potlatch is still trying : "Saving to changset 15685756".
>
> Is it a problem linked to my account ? Is it a known issue ?
>
> Some infos :
> OSM account : FrViPofm
> IP : 86.218.199.87 (probably other yersterday)
> I have updated JOSM latest yersterday : my version is 5837
>
> Both JOSM and Potlatch are still trying to create the changeset or upload
> changes.
>
> [1] http://osm.org/go/xVefgMCmp--
> --
> FrViPofm
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Imagery Boundary?

[Clay Smalley]

This seems silly and useless. The imagery is subject to change and the way
will become obsolete. I don't see a point in mapping this, and I'm okay
with deleting these ways. But I'd rather hear from someone with more
experience before anything happens.
On Mar 31, 2013 10:39 AM, "ingalls"  wrote:

> It doesn't look like this is an isolated example, there are over a hundred
> of these
>
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/boundary=imagery#overview
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:35 PM, ingalls wrote:
>
>> Hey guys came across a really weird way.
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/104974280
>>
>> Not sure exactly what it is supposed to represent? Is it showing where
>> bing has high quality imagery? And secondly can I remove it!
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Overlapping ways

[Clay Smalley]

On Jan 9, 2013 5:03 PM, "Rob Nickerson"  wrote:
> For example, if I draw the layer 0 way, then draw the layer 1 way on top,
using the same nodes as a guide, BUT THEN "unglue" all the nodes by
pressing "G" in JOSM, does this still count as a "shared node"?
That is perfectly valid as they are separate nodes according to OSM. Some
validators might pick up on these and call them errors, but that's a false
negative.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bug fixes multilingual map

[Clay Smalley]

In that case, for line placement, I suggest using " - " in between the
names in different languages, e.g. "Rue des Bouchers - Beenhouwersstraat".
That's what's done in the name=* tag in many bilingual places like Brussels.


On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Stephan Knauss wrote:

> Andrew Errington writes:
>
>> It doesn't matter if I use en|ko or ko|en, it seems there is an LF
>> character between the two strings which is not present in the original
>> data.
>>
>
> It could be that the symbolizer does not support multi-line for line
> placement. Then it's a mapnik issue.
> I think on my bilingual map on thaimap.osm-tools.org I had not used a
> linebreak for street labels for this reason. Unfortunately I can't check
> the style at the moment.
>  Stephan
>
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