Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
Hendrik T. Voelker wrote: So we have to come up with a way to contain alternating versions with time or other kind of restrictions. This would also allow construction sites to be mapped. ---8--- timecapsule frame from=1.1.2009 till=5.1.2009 node ... / way ... / relation ... / /frame frame !-- default without time frame -- /frame /timecapsule ---8--- from and till might need some additional possibilities to describe dates, like First Saturday in March or every two years from 1.3. till 9.3. ... Cheers Hendrik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
Hi guys. Peter Miller wrote: This raises the whole question around temporary maps - ie for 50 weeks of the year this is empty desert and for 2 weeks it looks like this. Another example is Glastonbury Festival which for 50 weeks looks like a farm and for 2 weeks is the second largest settlement in Wiltshire. So we have to come up with a way to contain alternating versions with time or other kind of restrictions. This would also allow construction sites to be mapped. Cheers Hendrik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Guys, after we now had a longer discussion I guess several things are clear: We agree that as a first step a code of conduct concerning mass changes is a very good idea and maybe Frederik can draft one and add it to the wiki as a proposal. Following that most agree that a code of conduct alone might not be enough and we would need to define some more potent means to prevent disasters. Several were named, like a sandbox and test suit for verifying the tool works, like some kind of certification and authorisation for mass changes, and including the self-evident things like logs and undo files. It has become evident, that to most feared problems are stupid edits and the loss of data because older sources (planet files) are used as the change base. In today's IT business it is normal in these kinds of situations, to not only work on most current data sets - like Paolo's approach does - but also to lock the record being worked on to prevent race conditions. If we all the names requirements we maybe could think about the following solution: OSM is providing the framework and execution means for mass changes. To get something done, one has to create a Java class that described the bot. That then is submitted to the OSM bot execution facility - or what ever you want to name it. The framework that executes that class provides for record selection and locking, and also provides the means to roll back instead of commit the changes in case of errors. And also the means for logging and presenting the results officially on the wiki or where ever. As this can run directly on the DB this is faster and more reliable than an HTTP(S) connection. The developers for the bot class can be provided with test means like sand box, test data and JUnit frameworks. Granted, that might limit the development to Java programmers but hey, if you know one iterative language, you can easily learn another. And yes, it might prevent a fast hack - but then, that's what we want, isn't it? And yes, I know that it takes time to agree upon this, time to implement it, time and money to set it up, time to certify all the classes, ... In the end, this is just another idea :) Cheers Hendrik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Gert Gremmen wrote: The serverscript (see below) could create a web page with the temporary accountname as a URL, summarizing all the submitted data, for consulting by anyone finding a questionable dataelement. Guys, think about one of the most fundamental design principles for robust code: Keep it simple. I would use two mechanisms for a script mass edit 1. Require scripts to use an SSL certificate that is signed by OSM for authentication 2. As the first step request a Universally Unique Identifier (UUID) from the OSM server which acts as transaction number for the batch process and tag each Object with it tag k='batch_tn' v='3696bf1c-8e1b-11dd-a367-0080ad4205c4' / when it is submitted. Either by the script itself or, even more secure, by the OSM server API. And when you want to document who did what when, additionally create batch cert_id='' script='' timestamp='' tag k='batch_tn' v='3696bf1c-8e1b-11dd-a367-0080ad4205c4' / /batch Cheers Hendrik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Gert Gremmen wrote: I want to insist however, on the website form approach, to oblige fast-thinking fast-acting bot writers to express at least what they intend to do somewhere. Yes, sure. But not for every run of the bot. And you can add a description to the batch One could go as far as some kind of certification for bots. Only question is who does that, and what requirements do the bots have to full fill to pass certification? Some kind of sand box for testing - like Johannes suggested - and some kind of test suits would be a beginning. On the other hand we don't want to discourage people by complicating the process too much. Cheers Hendrik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Nick Barnes wrote: 'Hamm Strasse' - see link above). One of the guys there commented that after he spent some time mapping an area called 'Batley Carr', some numbskull thought it would be a good idea to correct all the misspellings of 'car' and changed every single reference. First of all this is not a problem limited to bots. Second there is no known way against stupidity and ignorance. That said we should try nonetheless to get things as fool prove as possible. Discussions resulting in rules and guidelines are a good step in that direction. Cheers Hendrik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft
Am 18.09.2008 um 00:40 Uhr schrieb Cartinus: seem to use k='type' v='something' to indicate what kind of relation it is. Nonetheless I think that it's redundant, as the existence of a group tag should make it clear that this is a group :) Streets, houses, what ever do The type tag is there on all established relations to make relations easier _machine_ readable. OK, so I will include the 'type' tag in the proposal. But honestly, with this intention 'type' should have become an attribute to the 'relation' tag, schouldn't it? Cheers Hendrik -- Hendrik BasicBaer Voelker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nutrimatic.de/ Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft
Am 16.09.2008 um 22:30 Uhr schrieb Erik Lundin: All established relations seem to use k='type' v='something' to indicate what kind of relation it is. Yes, I have seen that. Because of that I had include the question. Nonetheless I think that it's redundant, as the existence of a group tag should make it clear that this is a group :) Streets, houses, what ever do it the same way. What's the difference between way and area in this context? Wouldn't area be a more natural way to describe an island? Naturally one would guess that the otline of an island is a closed way tagged as being a place of type island. Unfortunately that is not the case. Most often someone just defined a node somewhere on the island. So we have to be able to use both. But the requirement for the way is, that it has to be closed Cheers Hendrik -- Hendrik BasicBaer Voelker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nutrimatic.de/ It's easy to distract fat people. It's a piece of cake. -- Chris Addison at the Pleasance ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] trace from a kml ?
Am 16.09.2008 um 22:46 Uhr schrieb leblatt: But if I try to convert from kml to gpx with GPSBabel, I get a trackfilter-init: Found track point without time! error, and no conversion occurs. Well, maybe it would be enough to add timestamps to the KML file (by hand/script) and then try to convert again? Maybe you even are lucky and the mobile has only used a timestamp format that is incomprehensible for GPSBabel, so you only have to correct them. Cheers Hendrik -- Hendrik BasicBaer Voelker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nutrimatic.de/ When all else fails, EAT!!! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft
Am 13.09.2008 um 19:17 Uhr schrieb Hendrik T Voelker: just a short question: How do I describe a group of islands, like e.g. the Ertenholmen (consists of about 13 islands, islets, and archipelago in the Baltic Sea. I would expect to use the relation for that It seems there is not yet any solution for this. So how about the following: relation ... tag k='group' v='archipelago' / tag k='name' v='A group of Islands' / tag k='is_in' v='country' / member type='node' ref='id' / member type='way' ref='id' / ... /relation The immediately arising question is, is group enough, or would you also think that an tag k='type' v='group' / is required? I personally thing that is unnecessary redundancy, but then, who knows. Maybe someone can point out why it is not. For choosing 'archipelago' as value, maybe someone has a better alternative. I am no native English speaker. TIA Hendrik -- Hendrik BasicBaer Voelker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nutrimatic.de/ It's easy to distract fat people. It's a piece of cake. -- Chris Addison at the Pleasance ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands.
-> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. talk -- Thread -- -- Date -- <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of i slands - proposal draft Cartinus Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of i slands - proposal draft Cartinus Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to
[OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands.
-> Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. talk -- Thread -- -- Date -- <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of i slands - proposal draft Cartinus Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of i slands - proposal draft Cartinus Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to
[OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands.
-> Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. talk -- Thread -- -- Date -- <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of i slands - proposal draft Cartinus Reply via email to <!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7266757337600734"; google_alternate_ad_url = "http://www.mail-archive.com/blank.png"; google_ad_width = 160; google_ad_height = 600; google_ad_format = "160x600_as"; google_ad_channel = "8427791634"; google_color_border = "FF"; google_color_bg = "FF"; google_color_link = "006792"; google_color_url = "006792"; google_color_text = "00"; //--> [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Nic Roets Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands. Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Erik Lundin Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of i slands - proposal draft Cartinus Re: [OSM-talk] Question: How to describe groups of islands - proposal draft Hendrik T Voelker Reply via email to
