Re: [OSM-talk] Why I don't use JOSM (was Re: Non-map-based OSM editor)

[Sebastian Klein]

Anthony wrote:

If I take notes of which parts I find least intuitive (the parts I
have to RTFM about, like how to reopen those right-side toolbarish
windows), would anyone be interested in them?


Yes, concrete ideas for improvement would be appreciated.

Certain things I'm aware of, e.g. there should be an option to move the 
map with left mouse button, but I didn't got around to implementing it 
yet. Otherwise, if you use the software long enough, everything seems 
intuitive to you. :)


Sebastian


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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing imagery now available in JOSM

[Sebastian Klein]

Sebastian Klein wrote:

andrzej zaborowski wrote:

On 1 December 2010 13:53, Jo  wrote:
It works great, a bit odd that it's not under WMS that the source 
needs to

be added, but I managed to get it to work.


Instead of slippmymap plugin you can use (although it's much slower)
the wmsplugin with the following url:

html:http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wmsplugin/VirtualEarthSat.html?


This method is not approved. We must show the Bing logo and a list of 
map providers on the map to comply with the terms of use. The wms plugin 
doesn't show this attribution yet.


We'll make an announcement on the josm-dev list when it is ready, but I 
don't know if anyone is working on it right now...


User Upliner has created an Imagery plugin that combines the slippymap 
and the wms plugin:


http://www.mail-archive.com/josm-...@openstreetmap.org/msg04025.html

As it supports offset correction for Bing imagery, the javascript method 
using wmsplugin shouldn't be necessary any more. (Except for Yahoo, 
which is also included in the new Imagery plugin.)



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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing imagery now available in JOSM

[Sebastian Klein]

andrzej zaborowski wrote:

On 1 December 2010 14:55, Sebastian Klein  wrote:

andrzej zaborowski wrote:

On 1 December 2010 13:53, Jo  wrote:

It works great, a bit odd that it's not under WMS that the source needs
to
be added, but I managed to get it to work.

Instead of slippmymap plugin you can use (although it's much slower)
the wmsplugin with the following url:

html:http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wmsplugin/VirtualEarthSat.html?

This method is not approved. We must show the Bing logo and a list of map
providers on the map to comply with the terms of use. The wms plugin doesn't
show this attribution yet.


But the javascript in the file overlays the logo and the attribution
information.  In effect it shows exactly the information that
slippymap plugin and Potlatch 2 show.


Actually I didn't see that at first because at some zoom levels you can 
load a large area (full screen) without any attribution shown.


I created a bug report for this:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/5685

We still need to provide a hyperlink to the Terms of Use, but that 
shouldn't be so hard.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing imagery now available in JOSM

[Sebastian Klein]

andrzej zaborowski wrote:

On 1 December 2010 13:53, Jo  wrote:

It works great, a bit odd that it's not under WMS that the source needs to
be added, but I managed to get it to work.


Instead of slippmymap plugin you can use (although it's much slower)
the wmsplugin with the following url:

html:http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wmsplugin/VirtualEarthSat.html?


This method is not approved. We must show the Bing logo and a list of 
map providers on the map to comply with the terms of use. The wms plugin 
doesn't show this attribution yet.


We'll make an announcement on the josm-dev list when it is ready, but I 
don't know if anyone is working on it right now...



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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing imagery now available in JOSM

[Sebastian Klein]

Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 12:26 +0100, Sebastian Klein wrote:

thanks to fast development by Ian Dees, Bing imagery can now be used
in 
JOSM. 


and it is legal to use it?


Yes, see http://opengeodata.org/microsoft-imagery-details.

Richard Fairhurst, seems to be in closer contact with the people from MS 
and there may be minor revisions, but these are basically the terms we have.


Some details are discussed on josm-dev and the legal list.


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[OSM-talk] Bing imagery now available in JOSM

[Sebastian Klein]

Hi,

thanks to fast development by Ian Dees, Bing imagery can now be used in 
JOSM.


You'll need the latest version of josm (3688)
 ( http://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm-snapshot-3688.jar )

and an updated version of the slippy map plugin. Then go to Preferences 
(F12) > Slippy map and choose "Bing Aerial Maps" as Tile Source.


Have fun!


Sebastian


PS: In case you don't know, it's up and running in Potlatch 2 for some 
time already.


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Introducing Taginfo

[Sebastian Klein]

Jochen Topf wrote:

On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 04:46:26PM +0200, Pieren wrote:

If I could have one request, it would be nice to see the amount of different
contributors using the same tag. This to distinguish between quantity and
popularity. I know it might be challenging since we should only count the
user of the tag creation in the element history...


On http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys there is a 'users' column. But this
doesn't look at the history, only the current use. It gives you still some
idea, but its not perfect. But reading the history is not an option at the
moment, because this would need far more resources.

The number of users is also taking into account when creating the tag cloud
for the home page. This way some tags from imports which are very common in
the database but have a small user count are downgraded. :-)

Jochen


Is it planned to have users count for the individual key pages? It can 
be interesting to see how popular common_key=some_exotic_value really is.

Sometimes it is used frequently, but by a single mapper only.

Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo

[Sebastian Klein]

Peter Körner wrote:

Am 05.10.2010 19:13, schrieb Jochen Topf:
I am not sure I quite understand, what you want. You don't want a 
scrollbar

but still see 500 entries on your screen? How big is your monitor? :-)


He talks about the *vertical* scrollbar which is really quite annoying. 
Take this page for example:




There is much white space on the page but I have to scroll vertical 
anyway to see all information. In this case it would be better to wrap 
some of the table cells in the next row.


No, in my world the vertical scrollbar scrolls up and down...

Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo

[Sebastian Klein]

Jochen Topf wrote:

On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 06:54:04PM +0200, Sebastian Klein wrote:
I'd prefer if it would not show a vertical scrollbar. This way you could  
use the full height of your monitor to read the results. Would it be too  
much to ask for, like, a maximum of 500 entries per page instead of  
currently 40?


I am not sure I quite understand, what you want. You don't want a scrollbar
but still see 500 entries on your screen? How big is your monitor? :-)


My browser can scroll as well. I noted the handle at the bottom of the
table, where you can increase the size of the table area. Basically I'd
prefer this to be at maximum all the time.


I just tried with 500 entries and it will become too slow. At least in Firefox.
I get the dreaded warning about a runaway Javascript script.

I will add 100 entries as an option which is still reasonably fast.


Thanks! To give you an impression: Wikipedia lists 500 entries per page:
<http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=OpenStreetMap&limit=500&action=history>

This way you can easily skim the content without the need to click the
"next" button every 2 seconds.

Another page that is already a little "extreme" because it is so large:
http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Europe/En/tags.html

Now I noted the magnifying glass at the lower left, where you can search
the values. It works quite nice (even for the "name" key) so I think I 
don't really need that many entries per page. :)


Again, great work, the design is pretty slick...


Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo

[Sebastian Klein]

Jochen Topf wrote:

For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that
brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki
and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more
ambitious. :-)

I am happy to announce that the beast is now available at

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de

There are still some bugs and lots of missing features, but its already
usable. Updates are currently done manually, but I will do automatic daily
updates soon.

All the software to run this is Open Source so please go ahead, run your
own versions and send me patches.

More details and background in my blog entry at:

http://blog.jochentopf.com/2010-10-05-introducing-taginfo.html

Bug reports and feature ideas welcome.


Wow, this is amazing!

I'd prefer if it would not show a vertical scrollbar. This way you could 
use the full height of your monitor to read the results. Would it be too 
much to ask for, like, a maximum of 500 entries per page instead of 
currently 40?



Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] End of road for JOSM on OS X for ppc

[Sebastian Klein]

Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:

Hi,

Yesterday I tried to upgrade JOSM on my trusty old Apple Powerbook G4. 
However, JOSM now needs Java 6SE, which is _not_ supported on OSX 
version 10.5 (Leopard). If you own a Mac with an Intel CPU, you can 
upgrade to OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard), but that is not an option for 
machines using the PPC architecture.


I had to downgrade JOSM again to version 3376, which is the 
end-of-the-line version for Mac OS X running on a PPC chip. So, if you 
own a machine like that, don't upgrade JOSM!



For any fundamental changes like new killer features or a change to API 
0.7, it should be possible to port that back to JOSM 3376 / Java 5.


This probably won't be done by core developers, but if someone takes the 
initiative, we wouldn't oppose. :)



Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Valid geometry for closed ways

[Sebastian Klein]

Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:

El día Friday 20 August 2010 13:00:08, Sebastian Klein dijo:

what are valid geometries for closed ways that represent an area?


If you want polygons to behave as in "paleo" GIS, you should refer to the 
industry standars. Specifically, to 
http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/sfa , version 1.2.1, page 26:
c) No two Rings in the boundary cross and the Rings in the boundary of a 
Polygon may intersect at a Point but only as a tangent, e.g.

∀ P ∈ Polygon, ∀ c1,c2∈P.Boundary(), c1≠c2,
∀ p, q ∈Point, p, q ∈ c1, p ≠ q ,
[p ∈ c2] ⇒ [∃ δ > 0 ∍ [|p-q|<δ] ⇒ [q ∉ c2] ];


I don't really understand this one. The statement is always true since 
you can choose δ := |p-q|/2


Do they mean the intersection of 2 boundary rings is always a finite set?

Pay attention to "e": The interior of a polygon is a connected point set. In 
your example, the polygon is two connected point sets.


Yes, and the LinarRings are supposed to be simple, which by definition 
does not allow self tangency.



P.S.: Don't you just love all those UTF-8 math operators?


You are a genius. :)


Are there any reference algorithms to test for validity?

I remember someone said that "Multipolygon" would be misnomer. But 
according to this specification, it fits quite well, doesn't it?


Sebastian

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[OSM-talk] Valid geometry for closed ways

[Sebastian Klein]

Hi,

what are valid geometries for closed ways that represent an area?

Surely overlapping line segments shouldn't be allowed, but what about 
ways that contain a certain node more than 1 time? (Except first and last)


Example:

AB
xx
||
xx D--x E
C||
 xx
 FG

The way would be [ABDEGFDCA].

An alternative would be to split it in 2 ways and use a multipolygon 
relation.


The question came up for the current improvements of JOSM's join areas 
feature (which can also fix self-overlapping ways):

http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/5179


Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] collection/street relation: which one to use?

[Sebastian Klein]

Ulf Mehlig wrote:

... and then there is also the tag "relatedStreet" -- what's that? :-)


relatedStreet was the term used by the AddrInterpolation JOSM-plugin 
before the associatedStreet proposal was created.


It is equivalent to associatedStreet and now obsolete.


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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: what are empty nodes and how should we use them?

[Sebastian Klein]

Peter Wendorff wrote:
I thought about the history feature the OSM has and wonder, if the 
deletion of empty nodes normaly should be a problem.


Please correct me, if I'm wrong, but AFAIK the OSM works as follows:
- an object is created, normally - but not necessary with attributes.
- an object can be deleted any time
- if a deleted object is touched again by changing it's attributes, it 
will be "recreated" so it's present in the database again.


That is correct.


If that's the case, I observe:
Deletion of attribute-less objects will never be a problem, as long as 
nobody tries to get information from that objects (not included from my 
point of view).


The point of this discussion: There are people who get information from 
3 empty nodes at the end of a way.


___ ...

It is another way of saying "fixme=continue" on that way. Although I 
consider this style a little old fashioned, we shouldn't destroy other 
people's work, just because we don't like the way they are doing things.


So why not let validator detect these cases when searching for dup 
nodes? There shouldn't be a problem with that...



Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: what are empty nodes and how should we use them?

[Sebastian Klein]

Peter Körner wrote:

Am 16.08.2010 02:50, schrieb Lennard:

On 16-8-2010 1:41, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:



We've had several cases today, where people came swooping in and deleted
nodes from an ongoing upload, where the ways hadn't been uploaded yet.

So why are you uploading Nodes without ways?

The POST /api/0.6/changeset/#id/upload call is atomic in a transaction. 
Why not split your upload into multiple OSC Parts and post thems via 
this call. That way no imcomplete data would be visible to other users 
at any time.


Yes, but JOSM has a chunked upload mode where it uses multiple 
transactions for one upload.


This makes sense in in certain situations. E.g. you upload 2 objects 
 and you get "precondition failed" on the last 100 of them. That would 
mean:

 (1) - upload 19899+i objects
 (2) - upload is aborted by server -> get the server error
 (3) - fix the problem (e.g. download way and fix it)
 (4) - i++
 (5) - goto (1)

If you have a slow connection, this is not acceptable.


Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

[Sebastian Klein]

Nathan Edgars II wrote:

Sebastian Klein wrote:
Another option is to modify the default style and simply remove the 
tiger style rules. For this you copy 
<http://josm.openstreetmap.de/browser/trunk/styles/standard/elemstyles.xml>
to some folder, fix it in a text editor and then simply load the style 
from the preferences. (Make sure to untick "enable build-in defaults".)



I'm having a bit of trouble with this - I loaded this xml in 'map paint
styles' but now all ways show up as gray lines.


There seems to be a general user interface problem here, as you are not 
the first having trouble with loading custom styles.


To avoid noise on this list, we can try to resolve it on josm trac.
Please add Help->"status report" to the ticket.


Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

[Sebastian Klein]

Nathan Edgars II wrote:

If a way is tagged tiger:reviewed=no, JOSM puts a highlight behind it,
and when you select it the red is a lot fatter. How do I disable this?


You can put

color.mappaint.standard.tiger_data=#80808000

in your advanced preferences. This makes the highlight 100% transparent, 
however the selection is still fat.


Another option is to modify the default style and simply remove the 
tiger style rules. For this you copy 

to some folder, fix it in a text editor and then simply load the style 
from the preferences. (Make sure to untick "enable build-in defaults".)



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Re: [OSM-talk] Updates for JOSM

[Sebastian Klein]

Gregory wrote:
> While we're on the subject of JOSM user questions...
> 
> Is there a way I can make all my new nodes/ways be given the same value 
> for source. Like a function that I can set to "OS_OpenData_..." and turn 
> on when I have a tracing session.
> I'm not sure how it should deal with me adjusting locations(or adding 
> nodes to a way), probably best to just ignore it.
> 
> It would be really handy and save me having to remember to add the 
> source tag everytime.

Yes, you can search (Ctrl+F) for "id:0". This will select all new 
objects. Another search term is "modified" which will select every 
object that will be uploaded.

I'm not sure if it is useful to tag every single node like this. Maybe 
it is enough to put the tags on the ways. ("id:0 type:way")

Btw. you can add a source tag to your changeset in the upload dialog. 
But that's more for the record, other users won't see it in the future 
unless they query the changeset.

Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM: selecting areas

[Sebastian Klein]

Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Let's suppose I'm using JOSM, with quite some area features loaded: 
> buildings, parks, lakes, and administrative areas. Those areas might be 
> either simple closed ways, or multipolygon relations.
> 
> Now, I would like to click on any point in the viewport and select all 
> the area features that have that clicked point inside (if any).
> 
> 
> Is this currently possible? 

No, currently this is not implemented.


If not, is it feasible?

Certainly. You would need to copy some code from the painting mechanism 
to get the area polygons. Then Java provides algorithms to determine if 
a point is within a polygon.

Sebastian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Authorisation problems uploading changes from JOSM

[Sebastian Klein]

Richard George wrote:
> I just mapped a bunch of back-roads & footpaths I walked along on 
> holiday last week (near Agen, France) in JOSM, but I'm not able to 
> upload it. Every time I try I get an error message of:
> 
> "Authorisation at the OSM server with the OAuth token '{redacted}' failed.
> This token is not authorised to access the protected resource
> 'http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/create'.
> Please launch the preferences dialog and retrieve another OAuth token.
> 
> I've tried creating a new token but the problem persists. Is there 
> something special I need to do to be authorised for uploads? Or is this 
> an issue on the server?
> 
> (This is a 'safe' version of JOSM downloaded last night)
> 
> Thanks in advance,
>  Richard

The tested version does not work with OAuth any more, because the server 
has switched from http to https.

So you either have to use latest (>= 3188) or send the credentials in 
plain text. Unfortunately the protocol is not configurable in the tested 
version.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Simplifying shapes

[Sebastian Klein]

Andrew Errington wrote:
> On Fri, April 16, 2010 11:30, John Smith wrote:
>> On 16 April 2010 12:05, Andrew Errington 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>> I have some .osm files containing the outlines of areas.  I want to
>>> simplify the outline to make the files smaller and to make drawing
>>> quicker (I have many of these shapes to use in an OpenLayers vector
>>> layer), but I want to keep the same general shape.  Is there a tool to
>>> do this?  One option I suppose is to convert osm to GPX and then use
>>> GPSbabel or
>>> something to smooth the paths then convert back to osm, but this seems
>>> cumbersome...
>> open the file in JOSM and then use the simplify function.
>>
> 
> Is it scriptable?  I want to do this for a large number of files.

No, but you can add all your areas to a single file, then select all 
ways (Ctrl+F, "type:way") and run the simplify tool on all of them at once.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Documentation on Editing Relations

[Sebastian Klein]

Graham Jones wrote:
> Is there a command line way of adding ways to a relation - for
> example, rather than doing it by clicking on things, I would quite
> like to do "add ways to relation  where route="Pennine Way" or
> name="Pennine Way".

If you have the problem that you cannot download the entire area because
the route is too long, the XAPI can save your day.

You will need two XAPI requests, one for route=... and one for name=...
Then you can merge the layers in JOSM.

(Btw. there is an easy way to get the bbox parameters for XAPI requests:
Select the area in the slippy map of the download dialog. Then go to the
second tab and simply copy the list of coordinates...)

> Any pointers would be appreciated.  Sorry for being dumb - I must
> have missed the documentation somewhere?

Why not write some, when you have mastered the high art of
relations? :)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Some measure to prevent duplicate uploads of same data ...

[Sebastian Klein]

MP wrote:
> While API 0.6 have implemented object versioning, preventing
> accidentally overwriting someone else's changes, with introduction of
> atomic uploads now I see many problems with duplicate data.
> 
> These come often with imports of data or generally if someone uploads
> any new data without modifying any existing data (like if someone just
> traces hundreds of buildings from ortophoto, or alike )
> 
> Since in JOSM (and possibly in other tools) the atomic upload is the
> default method, that user presses some "upload" button and in few
> seconds all the changes are uploaded to the server, which then starts
> processing it (this could take some time for larger changes) and once
> it is finished, it will send new node ID's back to the editor.
> 
> Unfortunately, sometimes while waiting for server to process the
> uploaded data, the connection will timeout, so the user sees some
> error message  - thinking the upload failed, he presses "upload"
> again, starting to push new copy of all the objects to the server.
> Later, the server want to return ID's from first upload, but nobody is
> listening on the orher end anymore.
> 
> Ultimate result is sometimes having 2 to 4 identical copies of some
> data, sometimes it is thousands of duplicate nodes and ways.
> 
> Suggestion for one possible countermeasure:
>  after server receives complete succesful atomic upload from user,
> compute SHA1, MD5, or some other checksum of the uploaded XML. Store
> it and if user tries uploading exactly the same thing again (because
> he thinks the upload have failed, which is not true), send him just
> some error message instead, like: "You have already uploaded this
> data".
> 
> Or alternatively, send the user whatever result was there from the
> last upload (either new set of ID's, or some error message in case
> that previous upload failed because of some error)
> 
> I think perhaps last 2 or 3 checksums could be stored in case someone
> have multiple parallel uploads in multiple editors.
> 
> Martin

This is really a problem, especially for large data imports. The 
solution might not be so easy:

JOSM offers to upload the data in chunks of different sizes, or even 
each object separately. If the upload fails (due to timeout), the user 
might vary these paramenters, so the checksums become useless.

There was a discussion on that topic in josm trac:

http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/4401

It was suggested, that a final handshake should be required after the 
diff is sent from the server. If the client does not respond, the upload 
is discarded.

It would be nice to have a solution for this in API 0.7, but in the 
meantime, the editors should learn to handle this in a better way.

The user should be informed, that the dataset is in a dirty state and 
offer downloading the changeset. The new objects of the current dataset 
should then be matched heuristically (by their coordinates and tags) 
with the objects in the changeset.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image

[Sebastian Klein]

Niklas Cholmkvist wrote:
> When I photo map I take some photos which I later synchronise with a GPS
> trace, to know with the most precision where I had taken the photos.
> 
> I would like to put the lat long data right into the JPEG images though.

There are plenty of tools to do this:

* gpscorrelate  - a command line tool, where you specify the gpx file, 
the images and (optionally) a time offset

* prune - graphical tool that can be used to display gpx in front of osm 
map background and edit the gpx file. It supports geoimage features, as 
well.

* photo_geotagging - a plugin for josm that does just that.

See what you like best!
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