[OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
Hi all, please, look at this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80906020 It's a flight "path" from one airport to another. It's absolutely not real (aircrafts fly along routes and navpoints more like "zig-zags", not the straight grand circle ways). Imo this data is garbage. None of these points reflect any real data. A grand circle between 2 random airports in the world can be calculated, but there's no need to store all the calculated grand circles in the OSM db. Any other opinions? -- ry...@ryba4.com http://ryba4.com icq 335635 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:22 AM, Dmitri Lebedev wrote: > Hi all, > please, look at this: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80906020 > > It's a flight "path" from one airport to another. It's absolutely not real > (aircrafts fly along routes and navpoints more like "zig-zags", not the > straight grand circle ways). > > Imo this data is garbage. None of these points reflect any real data. A > grand circle between 2 random airports in the world can be calculated, but > there's no need to store all the calculated grand circles in the OSM db. > > Any other opinions? Agreed. That's a new account. I'll send a note to the new mapper. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
On 10/10/2010 10:29, Richard Weait wrote: On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:22 AM, Dmitri Lebedev wrote: Hi all, please, look at this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80906020 It's a flight "path" from one airport to another. It's absolutely not real (aircrafts fly along routes and navpoints more like "zig-zags", not the straight grand circle ways). Imo this data is garbage. None of these points reflect any real data. A grand circle between 2 random airports in the world can be calculated, but there's no need to store all the calculated grand circles in the OSM db. Any other opinions? Agreed. That's a new account. I'll send a note to the new mapper. I've seen other flight paths in the data too, so he's not the only one. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
Charlie Ferrero wrote: > On 10/10/2010 10:29, Richard Weait wrote: >> >> Agreed. That's a new account. I'll send a note to the new mapper. >> > I've seen other flight paths in the data too, so he's not the only one. Maybe add some info to this wiki page? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aeroways#Flight_paths Greets, Floris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
Yeah, mapping routes between airports is a bad idea. On the other hand, it might be feasible to map approaches to airports as shown on official diagrams. There are also "avigation easements" that might be relevant here. -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Flight-paths-in-OSM-tp5619787p5620343.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
If there is any interest of mapping airline routes, than do it with a relation between the airport nodes, as great circles can easily be calculated between two known positions. Making lines on the map is easy enough when you have the end positions, and nodes in between is not necessary at all. On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > > Yeah, mapping routes between airports is a bad idea. > > On the other hand, it might be feasible to map approaches to airports as > shown on official diagrams. There are also "avigation easements" that might > be relevant here. > -- > View this message in context: > http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Flight-paths-in-OSM-tp5619787p5620343.html > Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
Even a relation adds no information to the map, other than perhaps "these are points on the surface of the earth which allow for an unobstructed atmospheric path to be calculated between". There are about 28,000 aeroway=aerodrome tags, and 12,000 runways tagged. So if we wish to add relations between all possible airports, that represents about 72,000,000 great circle relations that would need to be added to cover them all. From: Aun Johnsen Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 10:34 AM To: OpenStreetMap Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM If there is any interest of mapping airline routes, than do it with a relation between the airport nodes, as great circles can easily be calculated between two known positions. Making lines on the map is easy enough when you have the end positions, and nodes in between is not necessary at all. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
Why iwould it be not useful to public transport routing? On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Mike N. wrote: > Even a relation adds no information to the map, other than perhaps "these > are points on the surface of the earth which allow for an unobstructed > atmospheric path to be calculated between". > > There are about 28,000 aeroway=aerodrome tags, and 12,000 runways > tagged. So if we wish to add relations between all possible airports, that > represents about 72,000,000 great circle relations that would need to be > added to cover them all. > > From: Aun Johnsen > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 10:34 AM > To: OpenStreetMap > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM > If there is any interest of mapping airline routes, than do it with a > relation between the airport nodes, as great circles can easily be > calculated between two known positions. Making lines on the map is easy > enough when you have the end positions, and nodes in between is not > necessary at all. > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > -- Fabio Alessandro Locati Home: Segrate, Milan, Italy (GMT +1) Phone: +39-328-3799681 MSN/Jabber/E-Mail: fabioloc...@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: 5525 8555 213C 19EB 25F2 A047 2AD2 BE67 0F01 CA61 Involved in: KDE, OpenStreetMap, Ubuntu, Wikimedia ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
As someone else mentioned earlier, the actual routes that the planes follow are usually not these shortest-distance routes. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM >From :mailto:fabioloc...@gmail.com Date :Sun Oct 10 10:12:35 America/Chicago 2010 Why iwould it be not useful to public transport routing? On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Mike N. wrote: > Even a relation adds no information to the map, other than perhaps "these > are points on the surface of the earth which allow for an unobstructed > atmospheric path to be calculated between". > > There are about 28,000 aeroway=aerodrome tags, and 12,000 runways > tagged. So if we wish to add relations between all possible airports, that > represents about 72,000,000 great circle relations that would need to be > added to cover them all. > > From: Aun Johnsen > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 10:34 AM > To: OpenStreetMap > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM > If there is any interest of mapping airline routes, than do it with a > relation between the airport nodes, as great circles can easily be > calculated between two known positions. Making lines on the map is easy > enough when you have the end positions, and nodes in between is not > necessary at all. > > >___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > -- Fabio Alessandro Locati Home: Segrate, Milan, Italy (GMT +1) Phone: +39-328-3799681 MSN/Jabber/E-Mail: fabioloc...@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: 5525 8555 213C 19EB 25F2 A047 2AD2 BE67 0F01 CA61 Involved in: KDE, OpenStreetMap, Ubuntu, Wikimedia ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
In the case of air travel the time tables and the locations of the airports is enough information. Possibly how many hours before the flight leaves, passengers are expected in the airport might also be interesting information and maybe how long it takes on average to gather luggage on the other side. What the airplane does while it goes from one airport to another is not exactly relevant. Although it would seem strange to route a complete itinerary containing an airplane route. So many variables. At best one could give a recommendation with the airplane as the last thing in the list. Maybe some suggestion which lines make the connection to the endpoint and what the limitations are (only until 23h, for example). Jo 2010/10/10 Fabio Alessandro Locati > Why iwould it be not useful to public transport routing? > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Mike N. wrote: > > Even a relation adds no information to the map, other than perhaps "these > > are points on the surface of the earth which allow for an unobstructed > > atmospheric path to be calculated between". > > > >There are about 28,000 aeroway=aerodrome tags, and 12,000 runways > > tagged. So if we wish to add relations between all possible airports, > that > > represents about 72,000,000 great circle relations that would need to be > > added to cover them all. > > > > From: Aun Johnsen > > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 10:34 AM > > To: OpenStreetMap > > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM > > If there is any interest of mapping airline routes, than do it with a > > relation between the airport nodes, as great circles can easily be > > calculated between two known positions. Making lines on the map is easy > > enough when you have the end positions, and nodes in between is not > > necessary at all. > > > > > > ___ > > talk mailing list > > talk@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > > > > > -- > Fabio Alessandro Locati > > Home: Segrate, Milan, Italy (GMT +1) > Phone: +39-328-3799681 > MSN/Jabber/E-Mail: fabioloc...@gmail.com > > PGP Fingerprint: 5525 8555 213C 19EB 25F2 A047 2AD2 BE67 0F01 CA61 > > Involved in: KDE, OpenStreetMap, Ubuntu, Wikimedia > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
On 10-10-2010 17:44, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: As someone else mentioned earlier, the actual routes that the planes follow are usually not these shortest-distance routes. And can change when circumstances require it. These kinds of fluidic concepts like flight paths are impossible to capture in a fixed path, and fixed paths is all that OSM can offer, currently. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flight "paths" in OSM
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > On the other hand, it might be feasible to map approaches to airports as > shown on official diagrams. There are also "avigation easements" that might > be relevant here. Approaches (informally referred to as "flight paths"): definitely worth mapping. I say that because they appear in my local street directory, presumably as somewhere you wouldn't want to live. I definitely wouldn't map other flight paths/routes. The scope of OSM is already massive and difficult to cope with, without this unstoppable scope creep. On the other hand, an "OpenAirMap" project would be interesting. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
