Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Marc Schütz schrieb: > I have now created two proposals: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/wayside_shrine > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/wayside_cross > Hi Marc! First of all, I'm not against putting these things into OSM as they often can be used as a good landmark in rural areas. Actually I'm a bit unsure about these two proposals because: - maybe they are too detailed - so we will end up with a lot of very detailed but highly related tags (which are then hard to learn) - maybe put both proposals under religion? Won't these often still be used for local pilgrimage so their "not so historic"? Or course this is a border case, as most of these are often rather old. - there's already historic=memorial http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:historic%3Dmemorial which interferes with your proposals I think. Maybe simply use it and extend it, add a subtag for these special memorials? AFAIK, often these wayside things were raised to "thank god and virgin Mary that I've survived this thunderstorm in 1857" or such - so in fact they are a sort of memorial anyway ;-) However, as these are often weathered, today it might be hard to find out what actually is being memorized upon. Again, I'm just unsure how to find a good tagging solution for this, but I'm not convinced of the current proposals ... Regards, ULFL P.S: While I tend to put comments into the proposal page, I didn't want to have two discussions about the same thing - so I'll use the ML for this one. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
I have now created two proposals: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/wayside_shrine http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/wayside_cross Regards, Marc pgpsOSfzzrypD.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Thanks for all the comments! To clarify: the objects in question are usually made of stone, between 1 and 2 meters high, and show scenes from the bible or from the life of saints and martyrs. They are frequently found in southern Germany and the alps. Some of them have been built as votive offerings, others are found alongside procession and pilgrim routes. As this seems not to be found in English-speaking countries, there probably isn't a widely used English term for it. dict.cc translates it as "wayside shrine" (http://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Bildstock.html). As to the crosses Rob mentioned, they are found in my area too. They can probably called "wayside cross" in analogy. So, unless someone comes up with better names, I will start a feature proposal in the wiki for: historic=wayside_shrine historic=wayside_cross Removing historic=icon was probably a good idea anyway, as it is still unclear what it meant. Querying the XAPI http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.5/node%5bhistoric=icon%5d shows that it is in use for a wide variety of things (judging by the names): - border stones - a clock tower - various memorials - "Gravhøj" (probably meaning a prehistoric grave hill) - at least one "Bildstock" Regards, Marc pgpvOAptKSBKV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
in my province we have also some of these called in dutch "wegkuis", they are catholic crosses placed mostly at a way crossing picture : http://www.hoogvonderen.info/kruis1hv.jpeg and http://www.kruisenenkapellenthorn.nl/fotos/wegkruis_heerbaan.jpg 2008/1/14, Stephen Gower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 07:58:20PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: > > > > i'll second that, but unless bildstock is an english word, we > > shouldn't use it - current protocol is british english words only. > > > > Marc, does this have a direct english equivalent? is icon correct, or > > does that relate to something subtlety different? > > Possibly "Shrine" unless I've missed some subtlety of what > Bildstock is. > > s > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 07:58:20PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: > > i'll second that, but unless bildstock is an english word, we > shouldn't use it - current protocol is british english words only. > > Marc, does this have a direct english equivalent? is icon correct, or > does that relate to something subtlety different? Possibly "Shrine" unless I've missed some subtlety of what Bildstock is. s ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
On 14/01/2008, Geoff Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Make that quadrilateral :-) I meant to delete it myself but hadn't got > round to it. > > If it goes back on Map_Features, please can we make sure it has some > sort of explanation of what it's for this time. If it really is meant > for these 'bildstock' things, maybe that would be a better name? i'll second that, but unless bildstock is an english word, we shouldn't use it - current protocol is british english words only. Marc, does this have a direct english equivalent? is icon correct, or does that relate to something subtlety different? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 09:15:40PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: > On 13/01/2008, Tony Bowden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Robin Paulson wrote: > > >> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildstock > > > of course, i remember seeing these in austria now. yes, they are quite > > > prominent aren't they and maybe map-worthy after all - would you be > > > willing to put a proposal up on the wiki? unfortunately, i can't speak > > > german or i'd do it > > > > Why does it need a proposal? It was already on Map Features until a > > unilateral decision to remove it. Now that it's been explained what it > > is, why not just put it back and document it? > > well, trilateral. but still your point stands, it was rather naughty > of us, circumventing the process like that. yes, it can be put back > up, i was hoping Marc could add some detail first, maybe for other > tags we could include? date, name, that sort of thing, other stuff > that's important? Make that quadrilateral :-) I meant to delete it myself but hadn't got round to it. If it goes back on Map_Features, please can we make sure it has some sort of explanation of what it's for this time. If it really is meant for these 'bildstock' things, maybe that would be a better name? -- --- Geoff Richards -><-- http://ungwe.org/ --- "I tried to fling my shadow at the moon, The while my blood leapt with a wordless song." -- Theodore Roethke ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
On 13/01/2008, Tony Bowden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Robin Paulson wrote: > >> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildstock > > of course, i remember seeing these in austria now. yes, they are quite > > prominent aren't they and maybe map-worthy after all - would you be > > willing to put a proposal up on the wiki? unfortunately, i can't speak > > german or i'd do it > > Why does it need a proposal? It was already on Map Features until a > unilateral decision to remove it. Now that it's been explained what it > is, why not just put it back and document it? well, trilateral. but still your point stands, it was rather naughty of us, circumventing the process like that. yes, it can be put back up, i was hoping Marc could add some detail first, maybe for other tags we could include? date, name, that sort of thing, other stuff that's important? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Robin Paulson wrote: >> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildstock > of course, i remember seeing these in austria now. yes, they are quite > prominent aren't they and maybe map-worthy after all - would you be > willing to put a proposal up on the wiki? unfortunately, i can't speak > german or i'd do it Why does it need a proposal? It was already on Map Features until a unilateral decision to remove it. Now that it's been explained what it is, why not just put it back and document it? Tony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
On 12/01/2008, Marc Schütz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > After - I think - three questions over the last months about > > historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it > > > > >from the map features page. > > > > If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put > > it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... > > > > It seems I'm a bit late in this discussion, but could it be something like > this: > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildstock of course, i remember seeing these in austria now. yes, they are quite prominent aren't they and maybe map-worthy after all - would you be willing to put a proposal up on the wiki? unfortunately, i can't speak german or i'd do it ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Am Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2008 22:40 schrieb Ulf Lamping: > Hi! > > After - I think - three questions over the last months about > historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it > > >from the map features page. > > If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put > it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... > It seems I'm a bit late in this discussion, but could it be something like this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildstock Regards, Marc pgpOIUCfzOBRV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Tony Bowden schrieb: > Robin Paulson wrote: > After - I think - three questions over the last months about historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it from the map features page. If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... >>> Was my explanation not valid? >>> >> it was valid, but they're not really map-worthy. if we go down that >> route, where do we stop? every painting? >> > > That may be a valid reason to remove it, and I'd almost certainly agree > with it. Saying that it was removed because there was no real response > or no good explanation of what it is, is rather different, though. > Sorry if I may have offensed you or others. With "real response" I just meant that no one came up with a "I'm using this for a while to tag xy" to explain this feature to be really useful and being able to add a good description to the map features page. I agree with Robin that it's just not really "map-worthy" to tag every icon in every church, giving the fact that at least my GPS doesn't work quite well indoors ;-) Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Robin Paulson wrote: >>> After - I think - three questions over the last months about >>> historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it >>> from the map features page. >>> If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put >>> it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... >> Was my explanation not valid? > it was valid, but they're not really map-worthy. if we go down that > route, where do we stop? every painting? That may be a valid reason to remove it, and I'd almost certainly agree with it. Saying that it was removed because there was no real response or no good explanation of what it is, is rather different, though. Tony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
On 11/01/2008, Tony Bowden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ulf Lamping wrote: > > After - I think - three questions over the last months about > > historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it > > from the map features page. > > If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put > > it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... > > Was my explanation not valid? it was valid, but they're not really map-worthy. if we go down that route, where do we stop? every painting? for example, we would not map the crown jewels, but would map the tower of london (i think...), which contains them. ditto the Mona Lisa and the Louvre, and others. map the building/location it's in, not the contents ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Ulf Lamping wrote: > After - I think - three questions over the last months about > historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it > from the map features page. > If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put > it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... Was my explanation not valid? Tony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
On 11/01/2008, Ulf Lamping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > After - I think - three questions over the last months about > historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it > from the map features page. > > If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put > it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... no complaints here, it was very out of place ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] I've removed historic=icon from map features
Hi! After - I think - three questions over the last months about historic=icon on this list - with no real response - I just removed it from the map features page. If some one comes up with a good explanation what this is we might put it back later, but in the meantime this was only confusing ... Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
