Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 04/30/2014 01:18 AM, Simon Poole wrote: I would be less concerned about the bitcoin aspect of it, but given that the user is adding further information which is quite useful, it should be clear if he actually has permission to do so (and a valid source tag would be a good idea too). Many of the POIs added just have a name, website, and payment:bitcoin tags and don't actually say what it is. Many also have note tags that contain what I would call advertising (listing which special offers are available through Bitcoin payment). Bye Frederik - -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTYLVrAAoJEOx/uhGAJu9H5XIH+gKEvXerDLc04SOHlzchWqJo jLXqVnqJN0N2+WFTGJjtKOMlGz3AIToNuNLbkyhob7Ku2OYEeFMLdsmnf/T+Cwbs GAx8jCWDGdXpjEvIEnWZOdsieY7XuVVoE/YqZtySB8cvNXZf4a1j/EYmfDZ6FxPV eM5p7KjNhAdztYZmcVeOyFWbs3mznKaiPAriJHdaZ5bLvF5nCTSyFpqVwTmWeFdW jNBFSI7ieNSAeopWLydSVOeo0KfyUxCqc1KdpA74Vaq5EVFac1gCSWJAePB6Wz1r 9f7zT9kL8jUuAHLZPsFYIt5xL6MAT/vOylBNiCCe0Z+0GjmtlQd2NIqjysjggzE= =cSY4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
2014-04-30 6:56 GMT+02:00 Yves yve...@gmail.com: Then the bitcoin aspect is more a tagging issue: they accept bitcoin through menufy.com only. This is bad mapping. If they really need that information in there, I'd suggest payment:menufy=yes, and then ask the Coinmap maker to show those markers too. Janko ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
That was what I meant, or whatever tag they see fit. On 30 avril 2014 10:39:36 UTC+02:00, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-30 6:56 GMT+02:00 Yves yve...@gmail.com: Then the bitcoin aspect is more a tagging issue: they accept bitcoin through menufy.com only. This is bad mapping. If they really need that information in there, I'd suggest payment:menufy=yes, and then ask the Coinmap maker to show those markers too. Janko -- Envoyé de mon téléphone Android avec K-9 Mail. Excusez la brièveté.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
On 04/30/2014 10:55 AM, Yves wrote: That was what I meant, or whatever tag they see fit. Coinmap author here. I think payment:bitcoin=menufy makes more sense. -- Best Regards / S pozdravom, Pavol Rusnak st...@gk2.sk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
On 30/04/2014, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-30 6:56 GMT+02:00 Yves yve...@gmail.com: Then the bitcoin aspect is more a tagging issue: they accept bitcoin through menufy.com only. This is bad mapping. If they really need that information in there, I'd suggest payment:menufy=yes, and then ask the Coinmap maker to show those markers too. That seems like the right approach to me. The menufy announcement makes it clear that those restaurants don't (necessarily) accept bitcoin, they only accept menufy. If I got a meal there without using menufy, I'll have to pay caveman-style (wow, didn't know cavemen used used credit cards, high-tech banknotes, or any kind of currency). But seeing the average quality of bitcoin edits, I won't be holding my breath for that level of tagging nuances to reach the necessary audience. Sigh... Offtopic: I still haven't figured that one out. Why does bitcoin, out of any other likely interests, attract a combination of enthusiastic but clueless osm contributors in such high numbers ? What's special about Bitcoin ? We have plenty of niche enthusiasts in OSM, but they usually map quite well (at least not worse than the average contributor/newbie). Is it something inherent in the bitcoin-using population ? A random fluke ? An observation bias on my part ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
Am 4/30/14 12:06 , schrieb Pavol Rusnak: On 04/30/2014 10:55 AM, Yves wrote: That was what I meant, or whatever tag they see fit. Coinmap author here. I think payment:bitcoin=menufy makes more sense. Sounds great at frist glance, but when you look closer at the payment= Key http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:payment then it becomes a issue as you can't use =interval anymore. While this isn't really a problem with menufy, I could see services like this where you want to use it, so it might not be a good idea to establish this kind of tagging and rather have something like payment:bitcoin_menufy=yes or simply have a completely different tag that just states that they use menufy, like menufy=yes (probably is some better version I can't think of). __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
There are two issues here. The first is the accuracy of the data and the second is tagging. For data, we in OSM prefer primary source data That is someone going to a location and verifying the information. We also allow information such as satellite imagery to be used, but again, in this case there is a user looking at the imagery and verifying that the data is accurate (or at least as accurate as the imagery). In this case, the data appears to be either from another source, or else its user generated.That would qualify as an import, which must go through an import process and follow the import guidelines. Discussing tagging seems secondary to me when the issue of Does this data qualify as imported data or not still exists. We've had a number of issues with Bitcoin mapping in OSM, including people copying directly from Google Maps (copyright violations), people using geocoded addresses from Google or other providers (copyright again), people using Nominatim to determine the location in areas where our coverage is poor (poor quality data), data not being validated (users not knowing for certain if bitcoin is an acceptable option). If you're the author of this tool, you will need to explain all this and come to a resolution if you wish to continue to use OSM as a repository for this data. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
Update: /u/dansfloyd (Reddit) who works at Menufy finally replied: I believe it is just random bitcoin supporters... we have had some issues with people not understanding that the bitcoin purchases have to be made online, and not in the restaurant. So sorry for the subject of the mail :( Andi __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
Andreas, It sounds to me like then it's menufly which offers bitcoin, and not the restaurants themselves. If that's the case, we need to remove these tags. - Serge On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: Update: /u/dansfloyd (Reddit) who works at Menufy finally replied: I believe it is just random bitcoin supporters... we have had some issues with people not understanding that the bitcoin purchases have to be made online, and not in the restaurant. So sorry for the subject of the mail :( Andi __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
Or possible tag accepts payment from menufly, (menufly=yes?)there is some added value in the information here. Cheerio John On 30 April 2014 15:10, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Andreas, It sounds to me like then it's menufly which offers bitcoin, and not the restaurants themselves. If that's the case, we need to remove these tags. - Serge On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: Update: /u/dansfloyd (Reddit) who works at Menufy finally replied: I believe it is just random bitcoin supporters... we have had some issues with people not understanding that the bitcoin purchases have to be made online, and not in the restaurant. So sorry for the subject of the mail :( Andi __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 3:20 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Or possible tag accepts payment from menufly, (menufly=yes?)there is some added value in the information here. We don't tag any other business information that way. We don't say delivery=grubhub, for example. If we went down that road, the amount of ever-changing information we'd want to store would become endless... cake_supplier=sysco. etc. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
I just stumbled over http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/24b22n/bitmap_app_cointerestorg_openstreetmapcom/ So far it looks like menufy.com or someone else has been adding hundrets of restaurants with payment:bitcoin=yes to OpenStreetMap, even though most of those restaurants do NOT accept Bitcoin at their physical location. This is the user account: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Blobo123 It sometimes refer to this http://www.coindesk.com/menufy-now-supports-bitcoin-payments-400-us-restaurants/ which even states: The proprietors might not even be aware that they are accepting bitcoin payments. It would be great if someone with more experiance could look into this, especially as a revert is probably needed at least for the Bitcoin-payment tag. Andi __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
I would be less concerned about the bitcoin aspect of it, but given that the user is adding further information which is quite useful, it should be clear if he actually has permission to do so (and a valid source tag would be a good idea too). Simon Am 30.04.2014 00:17, schrieb Andreas Goss: I just stumbled over http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/24b22n/bitmap_app_cointerestorg_openstreetmapcom/ So far it looks like menufy.com or someone else has been adding hundrets of restaurants with payment:bitcoin=yes to OpenStreetMap, even though most of those restaurants do NOT accept Bitcoin at their physical location. This is the user account: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Blobo123 It sometimes refer to this http://www.coindesk.com/menufy-now-supports-bitcoin-payments-400-us-restaurants/ which even states: The proprietors might not even be aware that they are accepting bitcoin payments. It would be great if someone with more experiance could look into this, especially as a revert is probably needed at least for the Bitcoin-payment tag. Andi __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
Am 4/30/14 01:18 , schrieb Simon Poole: I would be less concerned about the bitcoin aspect of it I think that is a pretty important aspect considering that CoinMap seems to be pretty popular in the Bitcoin community. But if users end up going to restaurants where they can't pay with Bitcoin and the owner does not even know what Bitcoins are they are going to be get frustrated and use alternative services. Which then also means that there is less initiative for business owners accepting Bitcoin to make sure they are (correctly) listed on OpenStreetMap. Considering CoinMap has 4000+ listing (according to some recent articles) then 700 wrong listings are a significant amount of bad data (assuming most of the stores do indeed not accept Bitcoin at they physical location). Andi PS: I honestly didn't even consider the overall legal aspect of this. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin
Then the bitcoin aspect is more a tagging issue: they accept bitcoin through menufy.com only. On 30 avril 2014 02:03:00 UTC+02:00, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: Am 4/30/14 01:18 , schrieb Simon Poole: I would be less concerned about the bitcoin aspect of it I think that is a pretty important aspect considering that CoinMap seems to be pretty popular in the Bitcoin community. But if users end up going to restaurants where they can't pay with Bitcoin and the owner does not even know what Bitcoins are they are going to be get frustrated and use alternative services. Which then also means that there is less initiative for business owners accepting Bitcoin to make sure they are (correctly) listed on OpenStreetMap. Considering CoinMap has 4000+ listing (according to some recent articles) then 700 wrong listings are a significant amount of bad data (assuming most of the stores do indeed not accept Bitcoin at they physical location). Andi PS: I honestly didn't even consider the overall legal aspect of this. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Envoyé de mon téléphone Android avec K-9 Mail. Excusez la brièveté.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
