Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Frederik Ramm wrote: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) Sweden24M 9M2.6 I suspect that disregarding the coastline (which is included in my figures) would probably cost the Scandinavian countries a few ranks in this league. Coastline factor doesn't affect larger countries that much In Sweden and Finland, it's not just the surrounding coast, but all the lakes inside the country and islands along the coast. They are results of the ice age, and make for a landscape very different from continental Europe. Before we started to add lakes, using the JOSM plugin, you quite couldn't understand why the country roads bend and turn so often. So far, lakes have only been added for parts of Sweden, so a lot remains to be done, Here's an example, http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=60.1lon=15.4zoom=10 -- Lars Aronsson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 01:45 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, a very crude statistic: I suspect that disregarding the coastline (which is included in my figures) would probably cost the Scandinavian countries a few ranks in this league. Coastline factor doesn't affect larger countries that much (but still strange that Italy should have so little - must investigate quality of border polygon). I realise I'm a bit late replying, but apparently Argyll and Bute council alone has more coastline than the all of France. Pointless facts, but that's a Scot for you. -- Bruce Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Frederik Ramm skrev: Hi, a very crude statistic: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) UK73M60M1.2 Germany 110M82M1.3 Netherlands 51M16M3.2 France29M60M0.5 Finland 20M 5M4.0 Italy 14M58M0.2 Norway21M 5M4.2 Sweden24M 9M2.6 Spain 17M40M0.4 Could you do a stats on Denmark as well, since we still are considered part of Scandinavia ;) Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Frederik Ramm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 30 April 2008 8:56 PM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder) Cc: 'Frederik Ramm'; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics Hi, Can someone point me to some simple code/ideas on how to turn the xml osm data into way length? I'll then be able to report some findings. I'll also write up how I gathered the information needed so that other areas can be compared. There's a script in SVN: /applications/utils/filter/osm-length/osm-length-2.pl You'd have to call this like so: perl osm-length-2.pl myfile.osm foo.osm 2 result and then you'll have in result a text file that gives road lengths for every type of highway contained in the input file (other data is disregarded). (foo.osm has a copy of myfile.osm with way lengths added.) Unfortunately this will also count ways that have an action=delete tag because you deleted them in JOSM. You can work around this by either making sure that the deleted objects are actually removed from the file (#12 in JOSM/Advanced_Tricks in the wiki) or, instead of removing the bits you don't want, just tag them highway=deleted and they'll count towards the extra category deleted which you can then ignore. Thanks for this, very helpful alternative to the rough and ready way I have achieved the same thing using the measurement plugin in JOSM. Your method however is able to refine the statistics considerably if that is needed. Cheers Andy Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Hi, One funny alternative would be to compute not the size of the data (nodes and tags) but the size of the tiles in a compressed format (PNG or JPG or compressed BMP). An empty tile can be compressed to a few bytes, but a dense tile with a lot of ways and place-names cannot be compressed so much. In this way, we would compute the amount of graphic information available for each country/zone, and this would not be influenced by uploads of tracks with too many nodes or untagged, disconnected nodes. On the other hand, one very visible difference between Mediterranean cities and, for example, English cities is the population density of the urban areas. For example, a medium-size English city like Liverpool is probably almost as big as Barcelona, even though their population is much smaller, so the ratio kms of streets divided by number of people will be very different in the South and in the North of Europe... not to mention those endless suburbs in the United States, for example... so yes, it's very complicated to compute a map quality index properly. Regards, Lucas De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] en nombre de Frederik Ramm Enviado el: mié 30/04/2008 1:45 Para: talk@openstreetmap.org Asunto: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics Hi, a very crude statistic: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) UK73M60M1.2 Germany 110M82M1.3 Netherlands 51M16M3.2 France29M60M0.5 Finland 20M 5M4.0 Italy 14M58M0.2 Norway21M 5M4.2 Sweden24M 9M2.6 Spain 17M40M0.4 I suspect that disregarding the coastline (which is included in my figures) would probably cost the Scandinavian countries a few ranks in this league. Coastline factor doesn't affect larger countries that much (but still strange that Italy should have so little - must investigate quality of border polygon). It is probably not unreasonable that once the road network is complete in a European country, we'll look at a ratio not unlike the NL figure. This would suggest that both the UK and Germany are about 1/3 there. Of course this is very simplistic and I believe you will come up with much better measures of progress. Let's hear your numbers ;-) (Among other things, NL is known as a very densely populated place - UK has 9 times the area of NL but only 3 times the population -, so those map features that tend to fill the available land even if sparsely populated will mean that the destination bytes per capita ratio for places like UK or DE will be higher than 3.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
On Wed, April 30, 2008 10:32, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: One funny alternative would be to compute not the size of the data but the size of the tiles in a compressed format. An empty tile can be compressed to a few bytes, but a dense tile with a lot of ways and place- names cannot be compressed so much. I don't like that. We're using a spherical mercator projection, meaning that anything nearer the poles is drawn bigger. That fact would slant the statistic towards northern europe. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Frederik Ramm frederik at remote.org writes: Hi, a very crude statistic: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) Finland 20M 5M4.0 I suspect that disregarding the coastline (which is included in my figures) would probably cost the Scandinavian countries a few ranks in this league. Coastline factor doesn't affect larger countries that much (but still strange that Italy should have so little - must investigate quality of border polygon). In Finland it lot of bytes are used for lakes and forest roads which are interpreted from Landsat/Yahoo/OpenAerialMap imagery. Link http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/WikiProject_Finland is visualising the situation with highways. Landsat imagery is usable in sparsely inhabited northern Finland where minory roads can easily be distinguished from forest. Location accuracy is not very well, about +/- 50 meters, but better than nothing. People are also eagerly digitizing lakes from Landsat imagery: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=65.94lon=29.747zoom=10layers=B0FT This is almost never ending job, right now no more than 10 per cent of the lakes have been digitized. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Frederik Ramm wrote: Of course this is very simplistic and I believe you will come up with much better measures of progress. Let's hear your numbers ;-) Interesting numbers. I suspect objects per capita would be more meaningful than compressed bytes though (but more effort to calculate, of course :) - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:11:08AM +0200, Ivvvn SSSnchez Ortega wrote: On Wed, April 30, 2008 10:32, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: One funny alternative would be to compute not the size of the data but the size of the tiles in a compressed format. An empty tile can be compressed to a few bytes, but a dense tile with a lot of ways and place- names cannot be compressed so much. I don't like that. We're using a spherical mercator projection, meaning that anything nearer the poles is drawn bigger. That fact would slant the statistic towards northern europe. I suppose it would be possible to correct for that, bits per unit area where area is a function of latitude (small tile approximation). Once you had derived the (normalized) information density f(theta, phi) you could then plot it (heat map) back on the original map. Cheers, -w ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
I meant loading it in a pgsql database. On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Skywave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is better to load the data and then just query the total length of the highways. Like this http://slyserv.dyndns.org/osm/resultat.html On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Steve Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Frederik Ramm wrote: Of course this is very simplistic and I believe you will come up with much better measures of progress. Let's hear your numbers ;-) Interesting numbers. I suspect objects per capita would be more meaningful than compressed bytes though (but more effort to calculate, of course :) - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
I think it is better to load the data and then just query the total length of the highways. Like this http://slyserv.dyndns.org/osm/resultat.html On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Steve Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Frederik Ramm wrote: Of course this is very simplistic and I believe you will come up with much better measures of progress. Let's hear your numbers ;-) Interesting numbers. I suspect objects per capita would be more meaningful than compressed bytes though (but more effort to calculate, of course :) - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
I'm just calculating some statistics for my local urban area (Northeast Birmingham). The area I've selected I know is 100% complete in terms of the road network because all of it has been systematically mapped by yours truly. I know the boundaries of the area and am about to pull the highway ways from xapi (ignoring footways, cycleways and tracks) so that I can get a metric of the length of highway vs the population and other statistics. I'll trim highways that leave the area in JOSM before I do this. The population of the area is just over 250,000 (2.39 persons per household) and based on the 2001 census, specifically the population and other data from 10 parliamentary wards. The population will have changed a bit since 2001, as have the ward boundaries, but then again also some roads will also have been built in that time and I may have a few roads missing here and there. Overall I think assuming a 100% complete road network against this population should I think give quite a reliable measure for an urban area. The area includes both purely residential, some near conurbation rural and industrial areas, so it should be reasonably representative of other urban conurbation areas of the UK. Can someone point me to some simple code/ideas on how to turn the xml osm data into way length? I'll then be able to report some findings. I'll also write up how I gathered the information needed so that other areas can be compared. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederik Ramm Sent: 30 April 2008 12:45 AM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics Hi, a very crude statistic: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) UK73M60M1.2 Germany 110M82M1.3 Netherlands 51M16M3.2 France29M60M0.5 Finland 20M 5M4.0 Italy 14M58M0.2 Norway21M 5M4.2 Sweden24M 9M2.6 Spain 17M40M0.4 I suspect that disregarding the coastline (which is included in my figures) would probably cost the Scandinavian countries a few ranks in this league. Coastline factor doesn't affect larger countries that much (but still strange that Italy should have so little - must investigate quality of border polygon). It is probably not unreasonable that once the road network is complete in a European country, we'll look at a ratio not unlike the NL figure. This would suggest that both the UK and Germany are about 1/3 there. Of course this is very simplistic and I believe you will come up with much better measures of progress. Let's hear your numbers ;-) (Among other things, NL is known as a very densely populated place - UK has 9 times the area of NL but only 3 times the population -, so those map features that tend to fill the available land even if sparsely populated will mean that the destination bytes per capita ratio for places like UK or DE will be higher than 3.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Frederik hat einige Europäische Länder bezüglich OSM File und Einwohner verglichen: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) UK73M60M1.2 Germany 110M82M1.3 Netherlands 51M16M3.2 France29M60M0.5 Finland 20M 5M4.0 Italy 14M58M0.2 Norway21M 5M4.2 Sweden24M 9M2.6 Spain 17M40M0.4 Switzerland 9M 7M1.3 Die Skandinavischen Länder haben etwas mehr Küstenlinie, daher das gute Verhältnis. Grüsse Raphael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Raphael Studer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) UK73M60M1.2 Germany 110M82M1.3 Netherlands 51M16M3.2 France29M60M0.5 Finland 20M 5M4.0 Italy 14M58M0.2 Norway21M 5M4.2 Sweden24M 9M2.6 Spain 17M40M0.4 Switzerland 9M 7M1.3 Beim ratio sollte man IMO eher die Bevölkerungsdichte statt der absoluten Bevölkerungszahl verwenden! Sven -- Threading is a performance hack. (The Art of Unix Programming by Eric S. Raymond) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
Hi, a very crude statistic: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) UK73M60M1.2 Germany 110M82M1.3 Netherlands 51M16M3.2 France29M60M0.5 Finland 20M 5M4.0 Italy 14M58M0.2 Norway21M 5M4.2 Sweden24M 9M2.6 Spain 17M40M0.4 I suspect that disregarding the coastline (which is included in my figures) would probably cost the Scandinavian countries a few ranks in this league. Coastline factor doesn't affect larger countries that much (but still strange that Italy should have so little - must investigate quality of border polygon). It is probably not unreasonable that once the road network is complete in a European country, we'll look at a ratio not unlike the NL figure. This would suggest that both the UK and Germany are about 1/3 there. Of course this is very simplistic and I believe you will come up with much better measures of progress. Let's hear your numbers ;-) (Among other things, NL is known as a very densely populated place - UK has 9 times the area of NL but only 3 times the population -, so those map features that tend to fill the available land even if sparsely populated will mean that the destination bytes per capita ratio for places like UK or DE will be higher than 3.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Europe Statistics
El Miércoles, 30 de Abril de 2008, Frederik Ramm escribió: a very crude statistic: Country osm.bz2 sizepopulationratio (bytes per capita) Netherlands 51M16M3.2 Spain 17M40M0.4 [...] It is probably not unreasonable that once the road network is complete in a European country, we'll look at a ratio not unlike the NL figure. This would suggest that both the UK and Germany are about 1/3 there. We made some numbers in talk-es two weeks ago. It seems that OSM covers around 17% of the spanish road network, measured in lenght: 63000km/37km. Extrapolating, that means that we would be aiming at 2.5 bytes per capita. Maybe you should remake these numbers, but calculating bytes per kilometer square. Of course this is very simplistic and I believe you will come up with much better measures of progress. Let's hear your numbers ;-) I got permission to use a censal list of street names - we should be able to tell out the percentage of street names that are right/wrong/missing - it would make a nice statistic. As soon as somebody hacks a script to do so. Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ningún tonto se queja de serlo; no les debe ir tan mal.- Noel Clarasó. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
