Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Dave F]

On 30/12/2017 14:24, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
they might have several addresses, but won’t be using more than one in 
their communication, typically.


There's the answer to the question.

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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

On 30. Dec 2017, at 14:04, Dave F  wrote:

>> entrances and _potential_ entrances 
> 
> In OSM we map what's there, not "potential"
> 


there is a dedicated housenumber because there is a potential entrance (Italian 
law). I didn’t say to map an entrance.


>> each window having its own address less so
> 
> I'm struggling to find a Sandro Ferrone with multiple addresses.
> http://www.sandroferrone.it/contatti/
> 
> This is the single address of the Andriani store: Via Federico di Palma, 107 
> 74123 Taranto
> A google search for '109' returns nothing specific, but often refers back to 
> '107'..


they might have several addresses, but won’t be using more than one in their 
communication, typically.

Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Dave F]

On 30/12/2017 08:34, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

entrances and _potential_ entrances 


In OSM we map what's there, not "potential"


each window having its own address less so


I'm struggling to find a Sandro Ferrone with multiple addresses.
http://www.sandroferrone.it/contatti/

This is the single address of the Andriani store: Via Federico di Palma, 
107 74123 Taranto
A google search for '109' returns nothing specific, but often refers 
back to '107'..


DaveF

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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 30. Dec 2017, at 02:17, Dave F  wrote:
> 
> There aren't multiple entrances in Catonano's examples.


entrances and _potential_ entrances


> 
> Shops on the corner of two streets is common across the globe.


each window having its own address less so


> 
> Are you suggesting these places have multiple postal addresses?


+1

cheers,
Martin 

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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Dave F]

There aren't multiple entrances in Catonano's examples.

Shops on the corner of two streets is common across the globe.

Are you suggesting these places have multiple postal addresses?

On 29/12/2017 22:28, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


Having housenumbers for every entrance and potential entrance is 
extremely common in Italy for example. The usual solution is to add 
nodes with the street name and housenumber at every such point, plus a 
node somewhere inside the area for the POI (shop, etc.) with the POI 
tags and the address they use (e.g. Via Cavour 107, or Via Cavour 
103-109, or Via Cavour 103/105/107/109, or even Via Cavour 
103;105;107;109).


If you want to explicitly tell which numbers belong to the POI I think 
it is better to draw an approximate polygon for the POI (i.e. you can 
see from the polygon which address nodes belong to it) rather than 
grouping them by a relation, for several reasons:


- easier to verify visually
- adds more information (size, shape, topology)
- easier to modify
- easier to understand
- requires less advanced editing tools
- likely more stable because of the previous points


cheers,
Martin




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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 27. Dec 2017, at 18:36, Catonano  wrote:
> 
> There s this shop that has shop windows on 2 streets
> https://imgur.com/a/icpwJ
> 
> Some of its shop windows have street numbers. as shown here
> https://imgur.com/a/ny08t
> 
> This is  a quite common case, as you can see here
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vr2vKuqr1S5hjf772
> 
> Some have their shop windows separated by building entrances or a different 
> shop windows
> 
> How do I map these ?


Having housenumbers for every entrance and potential entrance is extremely 
common in Italy for example. The usual solution is to add nodes with the street 
name and housenumber at every such point, plus a node somewhere inside the area 
for the POI (shop, etc.) with the POI tags and the address they use (e.g. Via 
Cavour 107, or Via Cavour 103-109, or Via Cavour 103/105/107/109, or even Via 
Cavour 103;105;107;109). 

If you want to explicitly tell which numbers belong to the POI I think it is 
better to draw an approximate polygon for the POI (i.e. you can see from the 
polygon which address nodes belong to it) rather than grouping them by a 
relation, for several reasons:

- easier to verify visually 
- adds more information (size, shape, topology)
- easier to modify
- easier to understand 
- requires less advanced editing tools
- likely more stable because of the previous points 


cheers,
Martin 


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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

If you can make a quality photo of a shop yourself, then you can add it 
to the respective category at Wikimedia. Here is an example of such a 
category for a retailer:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ALDI

Then you can add the tag to this shop image=*. A picture is worth a 
thousand words.


Please, note that normally it is not allowed to add photos to Wikimedia 
which were not made by oneself  due to licensing issues.


Here is some info on the OSM image=* tag : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:image


brgds
Oleksiy
OSM: Alex-7



On 27.12.17 19:36, Catonano wrote:

I hope this is the right place to ask about tagging

There s this shop that has shop windows on 2 streets
https://imgur.com/a/icpwJ

Some of its shop windows have street numbers. as shown here
https://imgur.com/a/ny08t

This is  a quite common case, as you can see here
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vr2vKuqr1S5hjf772

Some have their shop windows separated by building entrances or a 
different shop windows


How do I map these ?

My idea is that every shop window should be its own point with address 
info and then a relation should group them and be tagged with common 
data, such as the shop name, the web site, the phone number, the 
operator, whatever


Does anyone here know of any example of a similar situation ?

Thanks


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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Dave F]

Hi
I think you're seriously over complicating this.
Just look up the address on their website & use that.
Multiple house numbers: '107-109'

There's a separate tagging forum: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


DaveF

On 27/12/2017 17:36, Catonano wrote:

I hope this is the right place to ask about tagging

There s this shop that has shop windows on 2 streets
https://imgur.com/a/icpwJ

Some of its shop windows have street numbers. as shown here
https://imgur.com/a/ny08t

This is  a quite common case, as you can see here
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vr2vKuqr1S5hjf772

Some have their shop windows separated by building entrances or a 
different shop windows


How do I map these ?

My idea is that every shop window should be its own point with address 
info and then a relation should group them and be tagged with common 
data, such as the shop name, the web site, the phone number, the 
operator, whatever


Does anyone here know of any example of a similar situation ?

Thanks


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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Warin]

On 28-Dec-17 08:55 AM, Greg Morgan wrote:



On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Catonano > wrote:


I hope this is the right place to ask about tagging

There s this shop that has shop windows on 2 streets
https://imgur.com/a/icpwJ

Some of its shop windows have street numbers. as shown here
https://imgur.com/a/ny08t

This is  a quite common case, as you can see here
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vr2vKuqr1S5hjf772


Some have their shop windows separated by building entrances or a
different shop windows

How do I map these ?

My idea is that every shop window should be its own point with
address info and then a relation should group them and be tagged
with common data, such as the shop name, the web site, the phone
number, the operator, whatever

Does anyone here know of any example of a similar situation ?


I would say that it depends on your jurisdiction and how they create 
addresses.  In my case, the address is set most of the time by what 
side the water meter is on.  In that case it is easy to set the 
address except on corner buildings like you point out.  In addition, 
in newer addresses it seems that the whole structure gets an address.  
Then sub-addressing as they call it provides a suite/flat number for 
each of the shops.  I have also seen the cases that you provide.   In 
this case, I make an address point in the building polygon where the 
doorway is located. A shop window can provide the same address point 
location.  I just create a separate POI for the shop.  The address 
will remain even if the building is torn down but shop owner and 
merchandise can have great volatility.




A single shop:
Some larger 'shops' have entrances on all sides of a block - so that is 
on 4 streets. However the shop would only use one of those addresses.
You don't tag the individual windows, you tag the shop - either as a 
single node towards the shop entrance, or main entrance if it has more 
than one entrance, or you tag it as an area using a closed way.


Multiple shops:
Tag each shop separately .. they may share addresses being within the 
same building.
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Re: [OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Catonano  wrote:

> I hope this is the right place to ask about tagging
>
> There s this shop that has shop windows on 2 streets
> https://imgur.com/a/icpwJ
>
> Some of its shop windows have street numbers. as shown here
> https://imgur.com/a/ny08t
>
> This is  a quite common case, as you can see here
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vr2vKuqr1S5hjf772
>
> Some have their shop windows separated by building entrances or a
> different shop windows
>
> How do I map these ?
>
> My idea is that every shop window should be its own point with address
> info and then a relation should group them and be tagged with common data,
> such as the shop name, the web site, the phone number, the operator,
> whatever
>
> Does anyone here know of any example of a similar situation ?
>

I would say that it depends on your jurisdiction and how they create
addresses.  In my case, the address is set most of the time by what side
the water meter is on.  In that case it is easy to set the address except
on corner buildings like you point out.  In addition, in newer addresses it
seems that the whole structure gets an address.  Then sub-addressing as
they call it provides a suite/flat number for each of the shops.  I have
also seen the cases that you provide.   In this case, I make an address
point in the building polygon where the doorway is located. A shop window
can provide the same address point location.  I just create a separate POI
for the shop.  The address will remain even if the building is torn down
but shop owner and merchandise can have great volatility.

Regards,
Greg
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[OSM-talk] shop windows on differnt streets

[Catonano]

I hope this is the right place to ask about tagging

There s this shop that has shop windows on 2 streets
https://imgur.com/a/icpwJ

Some of its shop windows have street numbers. as shown here
https://imgur.com/a/ny08t

This is  a quite common case, as you can see here
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vr2vKuqr1S5hjf772

Some have their shop windows separated by building entrances or a different
shop windows

How do I map these ?

My idea is that every shop window should be its own point with address info
and then a relation should group them and be tagged with common data, such
as the shop name, the web site, the phone number, the operator, whatever

Does anyone here know of any example of a similar situation ?

Thanks
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