Re: [OSM-talk] uselessness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi,

I agree that adding tons of links with a script is not a good idea. 
However, there are cases where a wikidata tag could be useful.


For example, I created the Wikidata item (and the Commons category) for 
the medieval quarry Carrière Jaune (eng. Yellow Quarry):


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/158798757
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q62083763

This quarry had been in operation for five hundred years, it provided 
about 25000 cubic meters of stones for quite a few famous castles and 
buildings in the region, but now it is completely abandoned. It is 
situated deep in the forest. As far as I know there were no excavations 
there yet, and there is no Wikipedia article either, since there are few 
sources so far.


Via this Wikidata link people can view the ground and aerial photos of 
this absolutely magnificent medieval quarry and even read the basic 
historical information on the photo of the information board. I had to 
actually walk for hours to this quarry to make the photos. I also spent 
several hours for the research.


The idea is that people could not only see an object on the map, but 
also to get an information about it, including images, and most 
importantly an idea to go and visit the place.


Best regards,
O.

On 4/18/19 11:28, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

On 17.04.19 23:40, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

I am not aware about even single case where brand:wikipedia
or brand:wikidata is useful.

The general mindset of the Wikidata adherent is that every
machine-readable link between obejcts or concepts improves the overall
quality and usefulness of the data set, whether or not a concrete use
case exists at this point in time or not.

Mapping things without a concrete use case is fairly common in OSM; you
don't generally have to demonstrate a use case before you can start
mapping something.

However, the ferocity and scope with which Wikidata links are forced on
us are a concern for me. It started with tons of undiscussed mechanical
edits that resulted in low-quality connections like the one that gave
rise to this discussion, and has meanwhile found its way into our
editors which happily add wikidata tags according to the same flawed
logic, making the individual mapper complicit without them really
knowing what goes on. We end up with tons of extra tags that add zero
extra information and complicate the world for mappers.

And I'm not even talking about our own wiki where they've started to
wikidatify our tags as well.

I'm realistic enough to accept that wikidata links are here to stay, but
we have to rein in the "the more the merrier" thinking with regards to
wikidata.

Bye
Frederik




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Re: [OSM-talk] uselessness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 17.04.19 23:40, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> I am not aware about even single case where brand:wikipedia
> or brand:wikidata is useful.

The general mindset of the Wikidata adherent is that every
machine-readable link between obejcts or concepts improves the overall
quality and usefulness of the data set, whether or not a concrete use
case exists at this point in time or not.

Mapping things without a concrete use case is fairly common in OSM; you
don't generally have to demonstrate a use case before you can start
mapping something.

However, the ferocity and scope with which Wikidata links are forced on
us are a concern for me. It started with tons of undiscussed mechanical
edits that resulted in low-quality connections like the one that gave
rise to this discussion, and has meanwhile found its way into our
editors which happily add wikidata tags according to the same flawed
logic, making the individual mapper complicit without them really
knowing what goes on. We end up with tons of extra tags that add zero
extra information and complicate the world for mappers.

And I'm not even talking about our own wiki where they've started to
wikidatify our tags as well.

I'm realistic enough to accept that wikidata links are here to stay, but
we have to rein in the "the more the merrier" thinking with regards to
wikidata.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] uselessness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Can you link some of this real, actually used uses?

Or even better - add them to 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand:wikidata 
 ?

At this moment https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand:wikidata 

has a single theoretical example that relies on people not blindly adding 
brand:wikidata 
tags based solely on matches of object type and name with popular 
shop/restaurant/fast food chain.


Apr 18, 2019, 6:03 AM by yuriastrak...@gmail.com:

> Interestingly enough, FOSS4G San Digeo where I was just attending has had 
> several talks about wikidata IDs usfulness in OSM...  Also, AFAIK, mapbox is 
> using WD in brands to do their searches for POIs, as that is much easier to 
> consume than names. OpenMapTiles have discussed wikidata ids at length, and 
> consumes it in order to translate many locations (see their import-wikidata 
> repo).
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 2:42 PM Mateusz Konieczny <> matkoni...@tutanota.com 
> > > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Apr 17, 2019, 11:19 PM by >> a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk 
>> >> :
>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 21:03, Mateusz Konieczny <>>> 
>>> matkoni...@tutanota.com  wrote:
>>>
 Though, if we are lucky this mistake was added by an undiscussed
 automated edit and may be simply reverted.

>>>
>>> I do not consider the loss of potentially-useful data to be "lucky".
>>>
>> I am not aware about even single case where brand:wikipedia
>> or brand:wikidata is useful.
>>
>> Note that almost always this tags are added based on name tag.
>> ___
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>>  >> talk@openstreetmap.org 
>>  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
>> 
>>

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Re: [OSM-talk] uselessness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Interestingly enough, FOSS4G San Digeo where I was just attending has had
several talks about wikidata IDs usfulness in OSM...  Also, AFAIK, mapbox
is using WD in brands to do their searches for POIs, as that is much easier
to consume than names. OpenMapTiles have discussed wikidata ids at length,
and consumes it in order to translate many locations (see their
import-wikidata repo).

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 2:42 PM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>
>
>
> Apr 17, 2019, 11:19 PM by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk:
>
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 21:03, Mateusz Konieczny 
> wrote:
>
> Though, if we are lucky this mistake was added by an undiscussed
> automated edit and may be simply reverted.
>
>
> I do not consider the loss of potentially-useful data to be "lucky".
>
> I am not aware about even single case where brand:wikipedia
> or brand:wikidata is useful.
>
> Note that almost always this tags are added based on name tag.
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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[OSM-talk] uselessness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Apr 17, 2019, 11:19 PM by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk:

> On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 21:03, Mateusz Konieczny <> matkoni...@tutanota.com 
> > > wrote:
>
>> Though, if we are lucky this mistake was added by an undiscussed
>> automated edit and may be simply reverted.
>>
>
> I do not consider the loss of potentially-useful data to be "lucky".
>
I am not aware about even single case where brand:wikipedia
or brand:wikidata is useful.

Note that almost always this tags are added based on name tag.
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