Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline update process seems to be broken - major costline change near the Gulf of Ob

[Jochen Topf]

On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 01:05:51AM +0200, Marc_marc wrote:
> I have learn about this area and it seem that the Gulf of Ob is an area
> affected by tiles.
> so the coastline should follow the Gulf as before and not stop somewhere
> inside the Gulf it-self
> 
> I have reverted the coastline change in
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126200089

Thanks. I have manually "unfrozen" the processing now. We'll probably
have some other bad edits that make it through this way, but at least
the big one is avoided.

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline update process seems to be broken - costline change near Bahía de Bluefields, Nicaragua

[Marc_marc]

Hello,

Le 15.09.22 à 01:05, Marc_marc a écrit :

I hope this allow the export to resume this night.


unfortunately not
I guess the blocking factor now is the change around
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1087702973
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1lTm
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/125145822

not having any knowledge of this place, i wrote to
the previous contributor. however, i have the impression
that this lagoon is largely connected to the sea and should
therefore be influenced by the tides. and that the part of
the change concerning natural=coastline is therefore wrong

Regards,
Marc



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline update process seems to be broken - major costline change near the Gulf of Ob

[Marc_marc]

Hello,

I have learn about this area and it seem that the Gulf of Ob is an area 
affected by tiles.
so the coastline should follow the Gulf as before and not stop somewhere 
inside the Gulf it-self


I have reverted the coastline change in 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126200089
talk with the previous contributor in 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/124352504


I still have an issue with a branch inside the Gulf
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/735010441
river should stop at the coastline no ?
but how to tag that, a strait? ?

feel free to review, talk, ...
and I hope this allow the export to resume this night.

Regards,
Marc



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 22 November 2013, Paul Norman wrote:
>
> A particular square (400x400 mercator km, I think) containing
> coastline can be evaluated without considering the rest of the
> continent thanks to the directionality of coastline ways mattering.
> You'd periodically get squares that would end up incorrect, but it
> wouldn't generally cause incorrect results
> outside that square.

I suggested something similar some time ago - processing in tiles would 
allow partial updates of the valid areas and the invalid tiles would 
simply be left in the previous state.  Given the dynamics of the errors 
in the OSM inspector this would probably not cause any of the tiles to 
get overly old due to persistent errors.

This is however not trivial to implement, it would not produce full 
unsplit polygons (which are sometimes needed - not for normal rendering 
though) and it would occasionally lead to small artefacts at the tile 
boundaries when one tile is changed and the other tile is not.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Paul Norman]

> From: Jochen Topf [mailto:joc...@remote.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:51 AM
> To: Paul Norman
> Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates
> 
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 09:24:46PM -0800, Paul Norman wrote:
> > > From: Jochen Topf [mailto:joc...@remote.org]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:13 AM
> > > To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> > > Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > For the last about two weeks we haven't gotten any coastline updates
> > > through. The problem is that every day there is something broken
> > > somewhere with the coastline. Often problems get fixed the same day,
> > > but new problems show up the next.
> >
> > Can't osmcoastline localize these problems to a small area? Coastcheck
> > kept any errors from impacting entire continents, even when there were
> > high numbers of errors. I remember it finding 2k errors when I started
> > running it regularly!
> 
> Osmcoastline fixes small gaps in the data. I don't know of anything more
> coastcheck did. If anybody can give me any algorithms how to fix the
> data or "localize these problems", please do.

A particular square (400x400 mercator km, I think) containing coastline can 
be evaluated without considering the rest of the continent thanks to the 
directionality of coastline ways mattering. You'd periodically get squares 
that would end up incorrect, but it wouldn't generally cause incorrect
results
outside that square.

I don't know any details of the algorithms used since I didn't write or
maintain
them, I just know the results.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Patrick Kilian]

Hi,

> I think we have to face it: The approach of allowing the user to add
> anything to the map and later fix it has failed. I strongly believed in
> it for the longest time. But I don't any more. We have to have stronger
> guarantees in the data structures and more checks in editors and in
> the API. Remember, the "coastline" is one of the easier problems there.
> Boundaries are much more complicated. Having spent months already on this
> "easy" problem, I don't see how our limited ressources are going to solve
> this if we don't tackle the problem in a very different way.

A first step might be to disallow upload of certain easily detected
errors (e.g. self intersecting version=1 ways with coastline tags)
either in the editor(s) or in the API. This is certainly not going to
magically fix all coastline problems but it will lessen the workload of
the "advanced" mappers who try to fix coastline problems.


Regards,
Patrick "Petschge" Kilian


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Jochen Topf]

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 09:24:46PM -0800, Paul Norman wrote:
> > From: Jochen Topf [mailto:joc...@remote.org]
> > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:13 AM
> > To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > For the last about two weeks we haven't gotten any coastline updates
> > through. The problem is that every day there is something broken 
> > somewhere with the coastline. Often problems get fixed the same day, 
> > but new problems show up the next.
> 
> Can't osmcoastline localize these problems to a small area? Coastcheck
> kept any errors from impacting entire continents, even when there were 
> high numbers of errors. I remember it finding 2k errors when I started
> running it regularly!

Osmcoastline fixes small gaps in the data. I don't know of anything more
coastcheck did. If anybody can give me any algorithms how to fix the
data or "localize these problems", please do.

> We're always going to have local coastline errors, so we have to figure
> out how to recover from them

I think we have to face it: The approach of allowing the user to add
anything to the map and later fix it has failed. I strongly believed in
it for the longest time. But I don't any more. We have to have stronger
guarantees in the data structures and more checks in editors and in
the API. Remember, the "coastline" is one of the easier problems there.
Boundaries are much more complicated. Having spent months already on this
"easy" problem, I don't see how our limited ressources are going to solve
this if we don't tackle the problem in a very different way.

Jochen
-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Paul Norman]

> From: Jochen Topf [mailto:joc...@remote.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:13 AM
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates
> 
> Hi!
> 
> For the last about two weeks we haven't gotten any coastline updates
> through. The problem is that every day there is something broken 
> somewhere with the coastline. Often problems get fixed the same day, 
> but new problems show up the next.

Can't osmcoastline localize these problems to a small area? Coastcheck
kept any errors from impacting entire continents, even when there were 
high numbers of errors. I remember it finding 2k errors when I started
running it regularly!

We're always going to have local coastline errors, so we have to figure
out how to recover from them


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Jochen Topf]

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:49:36PM +0100, Jochen Topf wrote:
> > BTW it seems that the inspector doesn't show icons on errors in the
> > lowest zoomlevel (experienced with Firefox and Opera).
> 
> Works for me. What you are seeing might be due to a different known bug
> with OSMI: If the 180° line is in the view, it doesn't show the overlay
> at all. Of course this happens more often in lower zoom levels, because
> the chances are greater that the 180° line is inside your window. Try
> moving the map around or making your window smaller.

Hm, you are right. I have seen the same problem now. Strange.

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Jochen Topf]

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 06:53:15PM +0100, malenki wrote:
> Jochen Topf wrote:
> 
> >I have now changed the coastline update process from "once a day" to
> >"once every 4 hours". This means updates show up quicker in the OSM
> >Inspector at http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=coastline . 
> 
> Some mappers still break the coastlines faster than you check them. I
> looked at a lot of the 4h-updates of your inspector and there was
> always an error.

I have seen the same thing. :-(

> BTW it seems that the inspector doesn't show icons on errors in the
> lowest zoomlevel (experienced with Firefox and Opera).

Works for me. What you are seeing might be due to a different known bug
with OSMI: If the 180° line is in the view, it doesn't show the overlay
at all. Of course this happens more often in lower zoom levels, because
the chances are greater that the 180° line is inside your window. Try
moving the map around or making your window smaller.

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[malenki]

Jochen Topf wrote:

>I have now changed the coastline update process from "once a day" to
>"once every 4 hours". This means updates show up quicker in the OSM
>Inspector at http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=coastline . 

Some mappers still break the coastlines faster than you check them. I
looked at a lot of the 4h-updates of your inspector and there was
always an error.

BTW it seems that the inspector doesn't show icons on errors in the
lowest zoomlevel (experienced with Firefox and Opera).

Thomas


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Jochen Topf]

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 06:08:40PM +0100, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> On Monday 18 November 2013, Jochen Topf wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > For the last about two weeks we haven't gotten any coastline updates
> > through. The problem is that every day there is something broken
> > somewhere with the coastline. Often problems get fixed the same day,
> > but new problems show up the next.
> >
> > I have now changed the coastline update process from "once a day" to
> > "once every 4 hours". This means updates show up quicker in the OSM
> > Inspector at http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=coastline .
> 
> Sounds good.  This should also increase the chance that if you see an 
> error in the OSMI it is not already fixed (which is very common at the 
> moment and somewhat annoying of course).
> 
> How sensitive is your system by the way in discarding a coastline as 
> broken?  Obviously any unfixable error in one of the four large 
> continental coastlines will trigger it.  Same for large islands like 
> Greenland and New Guinea i suppose.  But there probably is a limit.  
> There have for example been many coastline errors in the Philippines 
> recently due to recent mapping activity there but many on fairly small 
> islands.

Well, one reason for the missing updates in the last weeks was that I
increased the sensitivity after the whole of Ireland went missing and
my process didn't notice it.

The many small islands aren't the problem. The typical problem is somebody
messing up the coastline of something larger, maybe even one of the continents.
Typically there is a small or large gap in the coastline. If the gap is
small enough, osmcoastline tries to close it, but that often leads to
to self-intersections of the coastline.

The other typical case is somebody adding a new coastline to a pre-existing
one. In most cases to add more detail from sat images. In this case they
should move the old coastline, but people often don't. This way you have
open ends somewhere and even if the software tries closing them you'll get
overlaps etc.

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 18 November 2013, Jochen Topf wrote:
> Hi!
>
> For the last about two weeks we haven't gotten any coastline updates
> through. The problem is that every day there is something broken
> somewhere with the coastline. Often problems get fixed the same day,
> but new problems show up the next.
>
> I have now changed the coastline update process from "once a day" to
> "once every 4 hours". This means updates show up quicker in the OSM
> Inspector at http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=coastline .

Sounds good.  This should also increase the chance that if you see an 
error in the OSMI it is not already fixed (which is very common at the 
moment and somewhat annoying of course).

How sensitive is your system by the way in discarding a coastline as 
broken?  Obviously any unfixable error in one of the four large 
continental coastlines will trigger it.  Same for large islands like 
Greenland and New Guinea i suppose.  But there probably is a limit.  
There have for example been many coastline errors in the Philippines 
recently due to recent mapping activity there but many on fairly small 
islands.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed

[Simone Cortesi]

WOW!!!
all of the errors seems to be fixed as of now (2002 CET), even the two
which show up on the slippymap.

good job everyone...

-S

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 2:26 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> Whoops - looks like I had disabled the cron job. Files should start
> uploading at about 2-3 AM UTC.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Simone Cortesi [mailto:sim...@cortesi.com]
>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 2:34 PM
>> To: Paul Norman
>> Cc: osm-talk
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed
>>
>> Paul,
>> are you still running it 3 times a day?
>>
>> It seems to be in a frozen state since at least 4 days. Fixed errors
>> still show up.
>>
>> Any idea?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Simone
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>> > Minor update: I am now running three times a day. Exact upload times
>> > depend on runtime which is largely a factor of dev server speed.
>> > Errors points are definitely going down. Many thanks for David Groom
>> > for both hosting the visualization and for often fixing errors before
>> > I can get to them, even though I know when my runs finish.
>> >
>> >> From: Paul Norman [mailto:penor...@mac.com]
>> >> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:55 PM
>> >> To: 'osm-talk'
>> >> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed
>> >>
>> >> I have resumed my daily generation of coastline files. These are
>> >> generated with the coastcheck program[1] from my jxapi database
>> >> starting at 5 AM pacific time. They take 3-4 hours to generate and
>> >> upload, depending on my internet speed at the time.
>> >>
>> >> The completed files are uploaded to
>> >> http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
>> >>
>> >> If opening these shapefiles in QGIS be sure to create a spatial index
>> >> for tolerable performance.
>> >>
>> >> There is a visualization of errors at
>> >> http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/
>> >>
>> >> Many of the errors appear to be short errors between ways that became
>> >> disconnected. More complicated errors are often best fixed by
>> >> deleting the bad coastline and retracing.
>> >>
>> >> [1]: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/coastcheck/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > talk mailing list
>> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -S
>



-- 
-S

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed

[Paul Norman]

Whoops - looks like I had disabled the cron job. Files should start
uploading at about 2-3 AM UTC.

> -Original Message-
> From: Simone Cortesi [mailto:sim...@cortesi.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 2:34 PM
> To: Paul Norman
> Cc: osm-talk
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed
> 
> Paul,
> are you still running it 3 times a day?
> 
> It seems to be in a frozen state since at least 4 days. Fixed errors
> still show up.
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> Thanks,
> Simone
> 
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> > Minor update: I am now running three times a day. Exact upload times
> > depend on runtime which is largely a factor of dev server speed.
> > Errors points are definitely going down. Many thanks for David Groom
> > for both hosting the visualization and for often fixing errors before
> > I can get to them, even though I know when my runs finish.
> >
> >> From: Paul Norman [mailto:penor...@mac.com]
> >> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:55 PM
> >> To: 'osm-talk'
> >> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed
> >>
> >> I have resumed my daily generation of coastline files. These are
> >> generated with the coastcheck program[1] from my jxapi database
> >> starting at 5 AM pacific time. They take 3-4 hours to generate and
> >> upload, depending on my internet speed at the time.
> >>
> >> The completed files are uploaded to
> >> http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
> >>
> >> If opening these shapefiles in QGIS be sure to create a spatial index
> >> for tolerable performance.
> >>
> >> There is a visualization of errors at
> >> http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/
> >>
> >> Many of the errors appear to be short errors between ways that became
> >> disconnected. More complicated errors are often best fixed by
> >> deleting the bad coastline and retracing.
> >>
> >> [1]: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/coastcheck/
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> 
> 
> 
> --
> -S


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed

[Simone Cortesi]

Paul,
are you still running it 3 times a day?

It seems to be in a frozen state since at least 4 days. Fixed errors
still show up.

Any idea?

Thanks,
Simone

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> Minor update: I am now running three times a day. Exact upload times depend
> on runtime which is largely a factor of dev server speed. Errors points are
> definitely going down. Many thanks for David Groom for both hosting the
> visualization and for often fixing errors before I can get to them, even
> though I know when my runs finish.
>
>> From: Paul Norman [mailto:penor...@mac.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:55 PM
>> To: 'osm-talk'
>> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed
>>
>> I have resumed my daily generation of coastline files. These are
>> generated with the coastcheck program[1] from my jxapi database starting
>> at 5 AM pacific time. They take 3-4 hours to generate and upload,
>> depending on my internet speed at the time.
>>
>> The completed files are uploaded to
>> http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
>>
>> If opening these shapefiles in QGIS be sure to create a spatial index
>> for tolerable performance.
>>
>> There is a visualization of errors at http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/
>>
>> Many of the errors appear to be short errors between ways that became
>> disconnected. More complicated errors are often best fixed by deleting
>> the bad coastline and retracing.
>>
>> [1]: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/coastcheck/
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed

[David Groom]

And thanks to you Paul for the data files in the first place.

Also I wouldn't want the impression I'm the only one fixing coastline errors, 
so thanks to the rest of you as well.

Just to be clear the error points layer is automatically updated from Paul's 
files.  The other error layers require manual generation so may only get done 
once a day.

Also due to the number of error points the map current won't display in some 
(maybe all) versions of IE, but is OK in Firefox & Chrome.  I can't be bothered 
to fix this, as the number of error points is falling daily, and so it won't be 
an issue in a while.

David
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Norman 
  To: 'osm-talk' 
  Cc: David Groom 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:42 AM
  Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed


  Minor update: I am now running three times a day. Exact upload times depend
  on runtime which is largely a factor of dev server speed. Errors points are
  definitely going down. Many thanks for David Groom for both hosting the
  visualization and for often fixing errors before I can get to them, even
  though I know when my runs finish.

  > From: Paul Norman [mailto:penor...@mac.com]
  > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:55 PM
  > To: 'osm-talk'
  > Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed
  > 
  > I have resumed my daily generation of coastline files. These are
  > generated with the coastcheck program[1] from my jxapi database starting
  > at 5 AM pacific time. They take 3-4 hours to generate and upload,
  > depending on my internet speed at the time.
  > 
  > The completed files are uploaded to
  > http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
  > 
  > If opening these shapefiles in QGIS be sure to create a spatial index
  > for tolerable performance.
  > 
  > There is a visualization of errors at http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/
  > 
  > Many of the errors appear to be short errors between ways that became
  > disconnected. More complicated errors are often best fixed by deleting
  > the bad coastline and retracing.
  > 
  > [1]: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/coastcheck/


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed

[Paul Norman]

Minor update: I am now running three times a day. Exact upload times depend
on runtime which is largely a factor of dev server speed. Errors points are
definitely going down. Many thanks for David Groom for both hosting the
visualization and for often fixing errors before I can get to them, even
though I know when my runs finish.

> From: Paul Norman [mailto:penor...@mac.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:55 PM
> To: 'osm-talk'
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed
> 
> I have resumed my daily generation of coastline files. These are
> generated with the coastcheck program[1] from my jxapi database starting
> at 5 AM pacific time. They take 3-4 hours to generate and upload,
> depending on my internet speed at the time.
> 
> The completed files are uploaded to
> http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
> 
> If opening these shapefiles in QGIS be sure to create a spatial index
> for tolerable performance.
> 
> There is a visualization of errors at http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/
> 
> Many of the errors appear to be short errors between ways that became
> disconnected. More complicated errors are often best fixed by deleting
> the bad coastline and retracing.
> 
> [1]: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/coastcheck/



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline generation resumed

[Simone Cortesi]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> There is a visualization of errors at http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/
>
> Many of the errors appear to be short errors between ways that became
> disconnected. More complicated errors are often best fixed by deleting the
> bad coastline and retracing.

Thanks a lot!

-- 
-S

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates still running?

[Jon Burgess]

On Wed, 2012-04-11 at 20:41 +0100, OJ W wrote:
> Is there some problem with the coastline at Doha airport?  The new
> coastline (changed since February) doesn't yet appear in rendered
> maps, but looks reasonable in the Edit view:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=25.24915&lon=51.61024&zoom=15&layers=M

I have just deployed an updated set of coastline shapefiles which look
like they will fix the problem once the area is rendered again. 

  Jon



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Paul Norman]

Replication diffs have just resumed from a temporary location. I am not yet
certain if my server will be able to keep up with these diffs. If it is, I
will start another run at about midnight UTC.

I have a good half-dozen apps that consume minutely diffs and I need to
switch all of their locations

> -Original Message-
> From: ThomasB [mailto:toba0...@yahoo.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:01 AM
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> do you plan another update?
> 
> Regards
> Thomas
> 
> 
> Paul Norman wrote
> >
> > I have completed another coastline generation and it has uploaded.
> > This version respects odbl=clean.
> >
> > The shapefiles are in their normal place at
> > http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
> >
> > Included is a .osm file with all the error points.
> >
> > An overview can be found at http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines2.png
> > Detailed views:
> > Great Lakes: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-lakes2.png
> > Europe: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-europe2.png
> > US West Coast: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-west2.png
> > Australia: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-au2.png
> >
> > There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The
> > following areas have significant number of error points:
> >
> > Pudget Sound in Washington State
> > The mouth of the Columbia river in Washington The Eastern Australia
> > coast
> >
> >
> > The points indicated by the maps and by processedc_p files are where
> > coastcheck encountered an error and had to guess where the coastline
> > continues. These should generally represent transitions between ODbL
> > clean and ODbL dirty sections of the coastline. Islands with no ODbL
> > clean sections will not generate any error points.
> >
> > http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/CT-only.php and
> > http://suncobalt.homeip.net:82/coastline.php are two visualizations of
> > errors but neither has yet updated to the new data.
> >
> > I hope to complete one more run of the ODbL-clean coastlines before
> > the downtime.
> >
> > During the downtime I will be running a set of ODbL-clean and
> > conventional coastlines (and a planet file).
> >
> > If diffs are available during the rebuild process I will be generating
> > them then and reloading my database when the ODbL planet is published.
> >
> > Technical details:
> > This new run takes into account odbl=clean. It may not correctly
> > handle 1. Objects that are dirty via a changeset override 2. Objects
> > that WTFE reported clean but are now dirty 3. Certain sequences of
> > edits and tag additions that are not likely to occur frequently with
> > coastlines and which require access to a full history database to
> > evaluate
> >
> > The data is from 7 AM PST and the ODbL status is slightly more recent.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Coastline-
> Update-tp5608185p5617862.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[ThomasB]

Hi Paul,

do you plan another update?

Regards
Thomas


Paul Norman wrote
> 
> I have completed another coastline generation and it has uploaded. This
> version respects odbl=clean.
> 
> The shapefiles are in their normal place at
> http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
> 
> Included is a .osm file with all the error points.
> 
> An overview can be found at http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines2.png
> Detailed views:
> Great Lakes: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-lakes2.png
> Europe: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-europe2.png
> US West Coast: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-west2.png
> Australia: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-au2.png
> 
> There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The following
> areas have significant number of error points:
> 
> Pudget Sound in Washington State
> The mouth of the Columbia river in Washington
> The Eastern Australia coast
> 
> 
> The points indicated by the maps and by processedc_p files are where
> coastcheck encountered an error and had to guess where the coastline
> continues. These should generally represent transitions between ODbL clean
> and ODbL dirty sections of the coastline. Islands with no ODbL clean
> sections will not generate any error points.
> 
> http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/CT-only.php and
> http://suncobalt.homeip.net:82/coastline.php are two visualizations of
> errors but neither has yet updated to the new data.
> 
> I hope to complete one more run of the ODbL-clean coastlines before the
> downtime.
> 
> During the downtime I will be running a set of ODbL-clean and conventional
> coastlines (and a planet file).
> 
> If diffs are available during the rebuild process I will be generating
> them
> then and reloading my database when the ODbL planet is published.
> 
> Technical details:
> This new run takes into account odbl=clean. It may not correctly handle
> 1. Objects that are dirty via a changeset override
> 2. Objects that WTFE reported clean but are now dirty
> 3. Certain sequences of edits and tag additions that are not likely to
> occur
> frequently with coastlines and which require access to a full history
> database to evaluate
> 
> The data is from 7 AM PST and the ODbL status is slightly more recent.
> 
> 
> ___
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> talk@
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Bennett" 

To: "Paul Norman" 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update



On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:

There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The following
areas have significant number of error points:

Pudget Sound in Washington State
The mouth of the Columbia river in Washington
The Eastern Australia coast


Speaking as an Eastern Australian coast dweller, what do we need to
do? What do the red spots in the map mean, and what do we need to do
about them?



Steve

What do the red dots mean?

the red dots represent where there is a possibility of a gap in gap in the 
OSM coastline ways following the deletion of data which is happening this 
weekend.  This "gap" could just be a few metres, or the dot could represent 
the start of a missing section of many 10's (or possibly 100's) of 
kilometres.


In order for Mapnik to render coastline correctly there needs to be a 
continuos line of coastline ways around all landmasses.  Any gaps in the 
coastline ways will lead to poor rendering.


What can we do about this ?

The missing sections in the coastline will need to be completed.  There are 
various ways this can be done.  In Australia there is the option of:


tracing from Bing or AGRI.
there is also the possibility of importing data.  I did offer on the talk-au 
[1] list to re-import PGS data  (relatively low quality), though I did ask 
whether it was better to delay and wait until someone had time to reimport 
ABS data


If you are going to add in any coastline data please be aware that the 
direction it is drawn is very important.  It must be drawn so that the sea 
is on the right hand side of the way.


Although it would be possible in the next few days to redraw some coastline 
using JOSM and store this off line ready to upload when the database comes 
back on line, my opinion is that it is better now to do nothing until the 
new database comes back on line in a few days.  I am sure that Paul Norman 
will then regenerate the shapefiles from which "the reds dots" are derived, 
and the error maps will be updated to show actual positions where coastline 
ways are then missing .


Regards

David

[1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2012-March/008957.html


Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Lennard]

On 1-4-2012 3:40, Paul Norman wrote:

Just be careful to not accidentally upload the .osm that indicate the
problems.


You should modify it to have upload='false' in there. Then JOSM will 
discourage you from uploading that file.




See http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/4043

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Paul Norman]

> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew Errington [mailto:a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 6:01 PM
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update
> 
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:31:53 Clifford Snow wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> > > I have completed another coastline generation and it has uploaded.
> > > This version respects odbl=clean.
> > >
> > > The shapefiles are in their normal place at
> > > http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
> > >
> > > Included is a .osm file with all the error points.
> > >
> > > There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The
> > > following areas have significant number of error points:
> > >
> > > Pudget Sound in Washington State
> > >
> > > I just pulled the osm file into josm.  I did a check of a couple of
> > > error
> >
> > points in the osm file in Puget Sound (Edmunds WA.)  They appear to be
> > about 10+ meters from the shoreline according to the bing image.
> > Since I'm new at this, but since I live in the Puget Sound and would
> > like to help fix it, what is an acceptable error distance?  Also - the
> > bing image doesn't give a date and time to determine the tide level.
> > Or am I missing something?
> 
> Are you sure the Bing image is correctly aligned?  There is no guarantee
> that it is.  Find a bunch of GPS traces nearby for a road or other very
> visible feature and ensure they line up with that feature on the Bing
> image.  If they do, you're fine- use the Bing image to correct the
> coastline.  If they don't, then use the tools in Potlatch or JOSM to
> move the Bing layer into alignment
> *then* correct the coastline.
> 
> The coastline should follow the line of high tide.  Use your best
> judgement to determine this.  You're not missing something.

The MapQuest Open Aerial imagery should be pretty well aligned.

My procedure is as follows:

Pick an area that needs work and download it
Select natural=coastline | child natural=coastline in JOSM and run the
validator on it
Pick somewhere to start and delete dirty coastline and then start tracing. 

Just be careful to not accidentally upload the .osm that indicate the
problems.



A new set of files is up, with data from about 18 hours ago I believe.
processedc_p.tar.bz2 is still uploading. I have another fresh set generating
too.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Andrew Errington]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:31:53 Clifford Snow wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> > I have completed another coastline generation and it has uploaded. This
> > version respects odbl=clean.
> >
> > The shapefiles are in their normal place at
> > http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
> >
> > Included is a .osm file with all the error points.
> >
> > There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The following
> > areas have significant number of error points:
> >
> > Pudget Sound in Washington State
> >
> > I just pulled the osm file into josm.  I did a check of a couple of error
>
> points in the osm file in Puget Sound (Edmunds WA.)  They appear to be
> about 10+ meters from the shoreline according to the bing image.  Since I'm
> new at this, but since I live in the Puget Sound and would like to help fix
> it, what is an acceptable error distance?  Also - the bing image doesn't
> give a date and time to determine the tide level.  Or am I missing
> something?

Are you sure the Bing image is correctly aligned?  There is no guarantee that 
it is.  Find a bunch of GPS traces nearby for a road or other very visible 
feature and ensure they line up with that feature on the Bing image.  If they 
do, you're fine- use the Bing image to correct the coastline.  If they don't, 
then use the tools in Potlatch or JOSM to move the Bing layer into alignment 
*then* correct the coastline.

The coastline should follow the line of high tide.  Use your best judgement to 
determine this.  You're not missing something.

Best wishes,

Andrew

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> I have completed another coastline generation and it has uploaded. This
> version respects odbl=clean.
>
> The shapefiles are in their normal place at
> http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/
>
> Included is a .osm file with all the error points.
>
> There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The following
> areas have significant number of error points:
>
> Pudget Sound in Washington State
>
> I just pulled the osm file into josm.  I did a check of a couple of error
points in the osm file in Puget Sound (Edmunds WA.)  They appear to be
about 10+ meters from the shoreline according to the bing image.  Since I'm
new at this, but since I live in the Puget Sound and would like to help fix
it, what is an acceptable error distance?  Also - the bing image doesn't
give a date and time to determine the tide level.  Or am I missing
something?

Clifford
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Steve Bennett]

On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The following
> areas have significant number of error points:
>
> Pudget Sound in Washington State
> The mouth of the Columbia river in Washington
> The Eastern Australia coast

Speaking as an Eastern Australian coast dweller, what do we need to
do? What do the red spots in the map mean, and what do we need to do
about them?

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Paul Norman]

> > Toby wrote:
> >
> >> Assuming you used the data I supplied this morning, it is actually
> >> from 12:30 AM CST last night when I started the jxapi query before
> >> going to bed.
> >>
> >> Also, it looks like http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/CT-only.php
> >> has
> >> been updated with your new files since you sent your email.
> >
> > Perhaps I don't understand what I'm looking for, but have checked
> > the 4 points on the Scottish coastlines indicated on the link above.
> > I can't see what is wrong with any of them. Some of the ways were
> > edited on the 24th March 2012 which I guess might have fixed
> > whatever the issue was, but if the data is from (consults timezones)
> > yesterday-ish then I'm not sure why they would still show. The
> > points seem to correspond with Paul's Europe png too.
> 
> 
> I think the answer lies in the original comment from Paul [1]
> 
> "This is somewhat more aggressive than the rebuild will be,"
> 
> As far as I can tell the error points sometimes get displayed where
> there
> are what the JOSM  relicencing plugin calls "possible data loss".
> 
> As such the error points produced by Paul, and the two maps built upon
> that
> data are an indication of possible problems, not a 100% definite
> statement
> of actual problems.
> 
> Furthermore, as I understand it, none of the tools which find "dirty"
> ways
> and nodes are actually using the same logic as the actual rebuild will
> use,
> so its impossible to get a 100% accurate picture of what will happen.
> 
> Regards
> 
> David

Nodes and ways are removed by cleanway. The exact logic used is as follows:
Do nothing to v1 objects created by acceptors
Do nothing to objects reported as clean by WTFE the last run

Then, for ways:
Do nothing to ways with odbl=clean
Drop ways where WTFE reports a severity=normal problem with the first
version
Record the ways that were clean to avoid querying them next time

For nodes:
Drop nodes where WTFE reports a severity=normal problem
Record the nodes that were clean to avoid querying them next time

A dropped end or start node or a dropped way will result in a break and an
error.

If anyone has suggestions for improving the algorithm I would welcome them.
Keep in mind that I only have access to the current version of the object
and the WTFE response. 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ed Loach" 

To: "'Toby Murray'" ; 
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update



Toby wrote:


Assuming you used the data I supplied this morning, it is actually
from 12:30 AM CST last night when I started the jxapi query before
going to bed.

Also, it looks like http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/CT-only.php
has
been updated with your new files since you sent your email.


Perhaps I don't understand what I'm looking for, but have checked
the 4 points on the Scottish coastlines indicated on the link above.
I can't see what is wrong with any of them. Some of the ways were
edited on the 24th March 2012 which I guess might have fixed
whatever the issue was, but if the data is from (consults timezones)
yesterday-ish then I'm not sure why they would still show. The
points seem to correspond with Paul's Europe png too.



I think the answer lies in the original comment from Paul [1]

"This is somewhat more aggressive than the rebuild will be,"

As far as I can tell the error points sometimes get displayed where there 
are what the JOSM  relicencing plugin calls "possible data loss".


As such the error points produced by Paul, and the two maps built upon that 
data are an indication of possible problems, not a 100% definite statement 
of actual problems.


Furthermore, as I understand it, none of the tools which find "dirty" ways 
and nodes are actually using the same logic as the actual rebuild will use, 
so its impossible to get a 100% accurate picture of what will happen.


Regards

David


[1]  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2012-March/062486.html


Ed


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Ed Loach]

Toby wrote:

> Assuming you used the data I supplied this morning, it is actually
> from 12:30 AM CST last night when I started the jxapi query before
> going to bed.
> 
> Also, it looks like http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/CT-only.php
> has
> been updated with your new files since you sent your email.

Perhaps I don't understand what I'm looking for, but have checked
the 4 points on the Scottish coastlines indicated on the link above.
I can't see what is wrong with any of them. Some of the ways were
edited on the 24th March 2012 which I guess might have fixed
whatever the issue was, but if the data is from (consults timezones)
yesterday-ish then I'm not sure why they would still show. The
points seem to correspond with Paul's Europe png too.

Ed


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[David Groom]

Paul

A big thank you for providing all of the data.

It has helped to greatly reduce the number of error points over the last 
week.


Regards

David

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Norman" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update



I have completed another coastline generation and it has uploaded. This
version respects odbl=clean.

The shapefiles are in their normal place at
http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/coastlines/

Included is a .osm file with all the error points.

An overview can be found at http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines2.png
Detailed views:
Great Lakes: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-lakes2.png
Europe: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-europe2.png
US West Coast: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-west2.png
Australia: http://maps.paulnorman.ca/coastlines-au2.png

There are no significant multi-square flooded or dry areas. The following
areas have significant number of error points:

Pudget Sound in Washington State
The mouth of the Columbia river in Washington
The Eastern Australia coast


The points indicated by the maps and by processedc_p files are where
coastcheck encountered an error and had to guess where the coastline
continues. These should generally represent transitions between ODbL clean
and ODbL dirty sections of the coastline. Islands with no ODbL clean
sections will not generate any error points.

http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/CT-only.php and
http://suncobalt.homeip.net:82/coastline.php are two visualizations of
errors but neither has yet updated to the new data.

I hope to complete one more run of the ODbL-clean coastlines before the
downtime.

During the downtime I will be running a set of ODbL-clean and conventional
coastlines (and a planet file).

If diffs are available during the rebuild process I will be generating 
them

then and reloading my database when the ODbL planet is published.

Technical details:
This new run takes into account odbl=clean. It may not correctly handle
1. Objects that are dirty via a changeset override
2. Objects that WTFE reported clean but are now dirty
3. Certain sequences of edits and tag additions that are not likely to 
occur

frequently with coastlines and which require access to a full history
database to evaluate

The data is from 7 AM PST and the ODbL status is slightly more recent.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[ThomasB]

Paul Norman wrote
> 
> 
> http://suncobalt.homeip.net:82/coastline.php are two visualizations of
> errors but neither has yet updated to the new data.
> 
> 

It updated now. Thanks for providing the data.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Update

[Toby Murray]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:26 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>
> The data is from 7 AM PST and the ODbL status is slightly more recent.

Assuming you used the data I supplied this morning, it is actually
from 12:30 AM CST last night when I started the jxapi query before
going to bed.

Also, it looks like http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/CT-only.php has
been updated with your new files since you sent your email.

Toby

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline rerender

[Michal Migurski]

http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline - someone?

On Jan 10, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Thomas Davie wrote:

> Is there any way we can get a coastline rerender some time soon?  It's been 
> broken (but fixed in the data) around inverness for nearly a month now.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom Davie
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> 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline extracts now added to metropolitan area extracts

[Michal Migurski]

On Oct 9, 2011, at 7:06 PM, Paul Norman wrote:

>> I've been slowly adding cities, but I'm being somewhat U.S.-centric in
>> my choices. If you have something you'd like to see in the list don't
>> hesitate to contact me. It's just a simple matter of appending a line of
>> text to a file! (and waiting).
>> 
>> -mike.
> 
> Do you prefer the information as bboxes or polygons? Also, for cities that
> have metropolitan areas around them do you want the city itself, or the city
> and metropolitan area?


Bbox with the surrounding metro area is best, I think. I've tried to add about 
a ring road's worth of padding around each one:
http://metro.teczno.com/previews/atlanta.jpg
http://metro.teczno.com/previews/berlin.jpg

-mike.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline extracts now added to metropolitan area extracts

[Paul Norman]

> From: Michal Migurski [mailto:m...@stamen.com]
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline extracts now added to metropolitan area
> extracts
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've updated my metro extracts with some new cities and individual
> extracts of the coastline shapefiles for each area:
>   http://metro.teczno.com/
> 
> I've been slowly adding cities, but I'm being somewhat U.S.-centric in
> my choices. If you have something you'd like to see in the list don't
> hesitate to contact me. It's just a simple matter of appending a line of
> text to a file! (and waiting).
> 
> -mike.

Do you prefer the information as bboxes or polygons? Also, for cities that
have metropolitan areas around them do you want the city itself, or the city
and metropolitan area?


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline broken ?

[Borbus]

On 14/06/11 12:07, Pierre-Alain Dorange wrote:
> OK i just say this, thanks.
> I seems that the river bank removal has been updated (in mapnik render)
> but not the new coastline... Just wait ;-)

The coastline data will be updated in a few weeks, but the mapnik layer
won't notice this.  It will only get re-rendered if some other change
forces it to notice, or the tiles are manually /dirty'd.

-- 
Borbus.

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline broken ?

[Pierre-Alain Dorange]

Ed Loach  wrote:

> 
> > Can someone help me to fix this.
> 
> Yes. Just wait. Mapnik coastlines are updated at long intervals
> (wiki says every few weeks). Looks OK to me on the Osmarender layer.

OK i just say this, thanks.
I seems that the river bank removal has been updated (in mapnik render)
but not the new coastline... Just wait ;-)
-- 
Pierre-Alain Dorange
OSM experiences : 


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline broken ?

[Ed Loach]

Pierre asked:

> Can someone help me to fix this.

Yes. Just wait. Mapnik coastlines are updated at long intervals
(wiki says every few weeks). Looks OK to me on the Osmarender layer.

Ed


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Lennard]

On 25-2-2011 22:02, Jochen Topf wrote:


We have a server that has planet file kept current each day for Taginfo.
Maybe it can do the coastline check, too. It only has PBF files, though
which the coastline checker doesn't understand. But we could work around
that or change it. Storage should also not be a problem, but RAM could be.
The machine has only 16 GB. Anybody know how much RAM the coastline
checker needs?


The first stage of the coastline checker tool chain is a modified copy 
of an old revision of osm2pgsql. It could be adapted for pbf, same as 
the current osm2pgsql. It does two passes over the data, that's why a 
simple pbf2osm pipe doesn't work.


The rest of the tool chain works on the resulting interim files, and 
wouldn't need to be adapted for a pbf planet.


16GB should be plenty. Last year I could still do a complete coastline 
run with a 4GB server, and it probably needs less than that.


--
Lennard

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Jochen Topf]

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 09:24:19PM +0100, Lennard wrote:
> >Can we get this going again? What exactly is needed?
> 
> A server with sufficient storage and bandwidth to process a weekly
> planet, daily diffs, and many hours of single task processing per
> coastline run.

We have a server that has planet file kept current each day for Taginfo.
Maybe it can do the coastline check, too. It only has PBF files, though
which the coastline checker doesn't understand. But we could work around
that or change it. Storage should also not be a problem, but RAM could be.
The machine has only 16 GB. Anybody know how much RAM the coastline
checker needs?

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Lennard]

On 25-2-2011 17:03, Jochen Topf wrote:


The coastline error checker says:
Last update of coastline errors: Wed Apr 14 13:19:17 UTC 2010
It also says it needs new hosting. I guess thats the problem.


The osm.org tile server generates its own coastline shapefiles. It 
doesn't use the ones from the coastline error checker.


FWIW:
curl --head http://tile.openstreetmap.org/processed_p.tar.bz2
Last-Modified: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:24:39 GMT

curl --head http://tile.openstreetmap.org/shoreline_300.tar.bz2
Last-Modified: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:22:31 GMT

I don't know if the caching influences these dates.


Can we get this going again? What exactly is needed?


A server with sufficient storage and bandwidth to process a weekly 
planet, daily diffs, and many hours of single task processing per 
coastline run.


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Jon Burgess]

On Fri, 2011-02-25 at 20:01 +0100, Jochen Topf wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Falmouth:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.15364&lon=-5.0639&zoom=17&layers=M
> Looks ok now in this zoom level. Still some errors if you zoom in.
> 
> I had a look at it again and marked some tile manually as dirty and I
> get the
> correct rendering then. So the problem seems not to be the coastline
> stuff
> but that there are tiles that haven't been re-rendered for half a
> year!?

I updated the coastline shapefiles used by the mapnik layer last night.
The previous update was about 4 weeks ago.

If no one edits any data in an area after the coastline shapefiles are
changed then it may be a long time before the tiles are rendered again
to pick up the changes (as you are seeing here).

Normally I force the zoom 0 - 12 tiles to re-render across the world
each time I update the coastline shapefiles but it takes too long to do
all zoom levels on each update. 

Back in January I ran a process to re-rendered all tiles last rendered
prior to 1st Oct 2010 across the full 0-18 zoom range. This took a few
weeks to complete and should have picked you older changes. I will
consider running it again with a more recent cut-off point.

Perhaps some of the other discrepancies are due to newer edits to the
coastlines?

   Jon



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Jochen Topf]

Hi!

Falmouth:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.15364&lon=-5.0639&zoom=17&layers=M
Looks ok now in this zoom level. Still some errors if you zoom in.

I had a look at it again and marked some tile manually as dirty and I get the
correct rendering then. So the problem seems not to be the coastline stuff
but that there are tiles that haven't been re-rendered for half a year!?

Jochen

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 05:39:46PM -, David Groom wrote:
> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:39:46 -
> From: David Groom 
> To: OSM Talk 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Jochen Topf" 
> To: "OSM Talk" 
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 4:03 PM
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates
> 
> 
> >
> >Hi!
> >
> >I have edited coastlines in Cornwall last summer and they are still not
> >updated on the main map. (Easy to see because the border and coastline
> >share the same location in the data but show up differently on the map.)
> >
> 
> Can you gave an example location?
> 
> David
> 
> 
> >The coastline error checker says:
> >Last update of coastline errors: Wed Apr 14 13:19:17 UTC 2010
> >It also says it needs new hosting. I guess thats the problem.
> >
> >Can we get this going again? What exactly is needed?
> >
> >Jochen
> >-- 
> >Jochen Topf  joc...@remote.org  http://www.remote.org/jochen/
> >+49-721-388298
> >
> >
> >___
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[David Paleino]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:35:41 -, David Groom wrote:

> David
> 
> the way you refer to was last edited on 1 Feb 2011, [..]

You probably haven't read my whole message :)
The last changes are just added nodes, there is no change in the shape of the
coastline. The last changes in shape happened in January.

David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "David Paleino" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

David

the way you refer to was last edited on 1 Feb 2011, I would not necessarily 
expect to see the results of those changes reflected  yet in the coastline 
on the Mapnik layer.


see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Coastline#Main_Mapnik_layer

David



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Kevin Peat]

Is there any reason to still have the NPE layer accessible from the editors.
It was useful in the pre-OS/Bing days but seems like a liability now?

Kevin



On 25 February 2011 17:47, Ed Loach  wrote:

> > > I have edited coastlines in Cornwall last summer and they are
> still
> > not
> > > updated on the main map. (Easy to see because the border and
> > coastline
> > > share the same location in the data but show up differently on
> the
> > map.)
> > >
> >
> > Can you gave an example location?
>
> I had a quick look around the coastline, but the first couple of
> discrepancies I found are recent edits (one was 6th February, the
> other in January
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/95126825 - this one I found
> interesting as the coastline that was based on the boundary has been
> updated to NPE which is over 50 years old)
>
> Ed
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[David Paleino]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:39:46 -, David Groom wrote:

> > I have edited coastlines in Cornwall last summer and they are still not
> > updated on the main map. (Easy to see because the border and coastline
> > share the same location in the data but show up differently on the map.)
> 
> Can you gave an example location?

Same problem here: http://osm.org/go/xZHqTlPn

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33900429

The "shape" was changed in January, the other revisions are for added nodes
(slipways or other similar things).

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[Ed Loach]

> > I have edited coastlines in Cornwall last summer and they are
still
> not
> > updated on the main map. (Easy to see because the border and
> coastline
> > share the same location in the data but show up differently on
the
> map.)
> >
> 
> Can you gave an example location?

I had a quick look around the coastline, but the first couple of
discrepancies I found are recent edits (one was 6th February, the
other in January
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/95126825 - this one I found
interesting as the coastline that was based on the boundary has been
updated to NPE which is over 50 years old)

Ed


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jochen Topf" 

To: "OSM Talk" 
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 4:03 PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates




Hi!

I have edited coastlines in Cornwall last summer and they are still not
updated on the main map. (Easy to see because the border and coastline
share the same location in the data but show up differently on the map.)



Can you gave an example location?

David



The coastline error checker says:
Last update of coastline errors: Wed Apr 14 13:19:17 UTC 2010
It also says it needs new hosting. I guess thats the problem.

Can we get this going again? What exactly is needed?

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jochen Topf" 

To: "OSM Talk" 
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 4:03 PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline updates




Hi!

I have edited coastlines in Cornwall last summer and they are still not
updated on the main map. (Easy to see because the border and coastline
share the same location in the data but show up differently on the map.)

The coastline error checker says:
Last update of coastline errors: Wed Apr 14 13:19:17 UTC 2010
It also says it needs new hosting. I guess thats the problem.

Can we get this going again? What exactly is needed?


The error checker hasn't been working for a long time, but I'm sure that 
coastline edits I made in January have since shown up on the map


David



Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Michal Migurski]

On Nov 9, 2010, at 12:30 AM, Lennard wrote:

>> A stupid but working workaround is to go through the .osm file with sed or
>> something and rename coastline to something else before running osm2pgsql.
> 
> And the more logical solution would be to find the single line in the
> osm2pgsql code that drops natural=coastline, adapt that, and
> recompile/reimport. Also remove the natural=coastline 'delete' keyword
> from default.style. You'll then have the raw natural=coastline ways in
> planet_osm_line, and you can create a mapnik rule for those.


Both of these workarounds will get me a personally useful file, but neither is 
appropriate for situations where I'm setting up rendering styles for clients or 
other people and need to help them help themselves.

Where would I put in a formal request that those lines be deleted from the 
osm2pgsql code, or submit a patch? The instructions here suggest that Trac is 
the right place, but I seem to need a Trac login to file a report:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osm2pgsql#Bug_reports

Jon Burgess is helping me off-list with some interesting intermediate files 
from the processor that he linked to in a previous mail. I'm interested in 
seeing those made available at the "official" URL, 
http://hypercube.telascience.org/~kleptog/.

-mike.


michal migurski- m...@stamen.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Lennard]

> A stupid but working workaround is to go through the .osm file with sed or
> something and rename coastline to something else before running osm2pgsql.

And the more logical solution would be to find the single line in the
osm2pgsql code that drops natural=coastline, adapt that, and
recompile/reimport. Also remove the natural=coastline 'delete' keyword
from default.style. You'll then have the raw natural=coastline ways in
planet_osm_line, and you can create a mapnik rule for those.

-- 
Lennard


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Jukka Rahkonen]

Michal Migurski  stamen.com> writes:


> 
> Can I ask if it would be possible to include in those shapefiles a processed
coastline that's just the
> outlines, rather than the tiled land area polygon? osm2pgsql doesn't import
natural=coastline (a
> hardcoded exception) and sometimes it's useful to put lines on coastlines, for
which the processed_p
> data isn't very well suited.

A stupid but working workaround is to go through the .osm file with sed or
something and rename coastline to something else before running osm2pgsql.


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Michal Migurski]

On Nov 8, 2010, at 2:34 PM, Jon Burgess wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 23:29 -0800, Michal Migurski wrote:
>>> I think we went back to some older shapefiles after reports of a
>>> significant problem with one of more recent updates. I just updated
>> the
>>> files with coastlines generated from the planet file this week. 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you Jon!
>> 
>> Can I ask if it would be possible to include in those shapefiles a
>> processed coastline that's just the outlines, rather than the tiled
>> land area polygon? osm2pgsql doesn't import natural=coastline (a
>> hardcoded exception) and sometimes it's useful to put lines on
>> coastlines, for which the processed_p data isn't very well suited.
> 
> There are three intermediate shapefiles produced by the coastcheck
> utility:
> 
> # coastline_p  - points with errors
> http://yevaud.openstreetmap.org/coastline_p.tar.bz2
> 
> # coastline_i  - incomplete sections of coastline
> http://yevaud.openstreetmap.org/coastline_i.tar.bz2
> 
> # coastline_c  - complete sections
> http://yevaud.openstreetmap.org/coastline_c.tar.bz2
> 
> They are the input to last step of the processing which creates the
> closed polygons for each tile in the final 'processed_p' output. At no
> point is there a file which has fully closed polygons without the
> tiling. 


I'm not actually looking for closed polygons - quite the opposite. The closest 
thing from what you describe is coastline_i, or maybe coastline_c. In theory 
this should be equivalent to just getting the raw ways out of OSM, but 
osm2pgsql prevents this.

Would it be possible to make coastline_i available?

-mike.


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Jon Burgess]

On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 23:29 -0800, Michal Migurski wrote:
> > I think we went back to some older shapefiles after reports of a
> > significant problem with one of more recent updates. I just updated
> the
> > files with coastlines generated from the planet file this week. 
> 
> 
> Thank you Jon!
> 
> Can I ask if it would be possible to include in those shapefiles a
> processed coastline that's just the outlines, rather than the tiled
> land area polygon? osm2pgsql doesn't import natural=coastline (a
> hardcoded exception) and sometimes it's useful to put lines on
> coastlines, for which the processed_p data isn't very well suited.

There are three intermediate shapefiles produced by the coastcheck
utility:

# coastline_p  - points with errors
http://yevaud.openstreetmap.org/coastline_p.tar.bz2

# coastline_i  - incomplete sections of coastline
http://yevaud.openstreetmap.org/coastline_i.tar.bz2

# coastline_c  - complete sections
http://yevaud.openstreetmap.org/coastline_c.tar.bz2

They are the input to last step of the processing which creates the
closed polygons for each tile in the final 'processed_p' output. At no
point is there a file which has fully closed polygons without the
tiling. 

   Jon



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Michal Migurski]

On Nov 7, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Jon Burgess wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 01:05 +0100, Vladimir Vyskocil wrote:
>> I checked the shoreline last modification date with : wget --server-response 
>> --spider http://tile.openstreetmap.org/shoreline_300.tar.bz2
>> and the answer show :
>> 
>> Last-Modified: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 23:44:09 GMT 
>> 
>> It's about 1 month and half ago !! Is this process broken ?
>> 
>> Vlad.
> 
> I think we went back to some older shapefiles after reports of a
> significant problem with one of more recent updates. I just updated the
> files with coastlines generated from the planet file this week. 


Thank you Jon!

Can I ask if it would be possible to include in those shapefiles a processed 
coastline that's just the outlines, rather than the tiled land area polygon? 
osm2pgsql doesn't import natural=coastline (a hardcoded exception) and 
sometimes it's useful to put lines on coastlines, for which the processed_p 
data isn't very well suited.

-mike.


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Jon Burgess]

On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 01:05 +0100, Vladimir Vyskocil wrote:
> I checked the shoreline last modification date with : wget --server-response 
> --spider http://tile.openstreetmap.org/shoreline_300.tar.bz2
> and the answer show :
> 
>  Last-Modified: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 23:44:09 GMT 
> 
> It's about 1 month and half ago !! Is this process broken ?
> 
> Vlad.

I think we went back to some older shapefiles after reports of a
significant problem with one of more recent updates. I just updated the
files with coastlines generated from the planet file this week. 

   Jon



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Vladimir Vyskocil]

I checked the shoreline last modification date with : wget --server-response 
--spider http://tile.openstreetmap.org/shoreline_300.tar.bz2
and the answer show :

 Last-Modified: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 23:44:09 GMT 

It's about 1 month and half ago !! Is this process broken ?

Vlad.

On 5 nov. 2010, at 19:40, Richard Weait wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Ulf Mehlig  wrote:
>> I'm waiting for my last week's coastline changes to become visible on
>> the main site's mapnik layer:
>> 
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-0.7596&lon=-47.049&zoom=12&layers=M
>> 
>> I tried to avoid caching problems, and I triggered re-rendering of the
>> affected tiles by tagging them as dirty ... Osmarender shows the
>> coastline correctly.
>> 
>> Does anybody know how to proceed?
> 
> Hi Ulf,
> 
> This question is asked fairly often and is very ably answered on the
> help site.
> 
> In short, coastline rendering is a relatively "expensive" process
> which is run only a few times per month.  Details here:
> 
> http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/276/why-do-the-changes-i-have-made-to-coastline-not-appear-on-the-map
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline in mapnik

[Richard Weait]

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Ulf Mehlig  wrote:
> I'm waiting for my last week's coastline changes to become visible on
> the main site's mapnik layer:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-0.7596&lon=-47.049&zoom=12&layers=M
>
> I tried to avoid caching problems, and I triggered re-rendering of the
> affected tiles by tagging them as dirty ... Osmarender shows the
> coastline correctly.
>
> Does anybody know how to proceed?

Hi Ulf,

This question is asked fairly often and is very ably answered on the
help site.

In short, coastline rendering is a relatively "expensive" process
which is run only a few times per month.  Details here:

http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/276/why-do-the-changes-i-have-made-to-coastline-not-appear-on-the-map

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline missing in Lake Superior - in case anyonenotices...

[John F. Eldredge]

If you are going to delete many miles of coastline data, are you then going to 
take the responsibility for re-entering this data afterwards, to at least the 
same level of accuracy as the current data?  It seems to me that it would be 
better to tell your editor program not to display the coastline during your 
editing session.  After all, there are likely to be some people who want to 
render the coastline, and they won't be able to do so if you have deleted the 
data.

---Original Email---
Subject :[OSM-talk] Coastline missing in Lake Superior - in case 
anyonenotices...
>From  :mailto:mi...@carterfamily.ca
Date  :Tue Aug 10 13:16:11 America/Chicago 2010


I'm currently working on importing CanVec data around Lake Superior...
the coast line was really getting in the way, so I'm deleting it.  I'm
actually joining them to the CanVec water corners... but it's probably
creating a coastal hole, not really sure if the join is actually working.

My plan is to finish loading all the coastal areas with the canvec
data.  Then joining the big body of water with a single relation, on the
Canadian side.   That will become the new coastal waters object, when
finished.  On the USA side I'll just join the existing coastal waters
object across the USA/Canada boarder.

I should have the entire lake finished by the end of the week... I
hope.   I just wanted to post this in case it sent up red flags somewhere.


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker

[Jon Burgess]

On Sat, 2010-06-05 at 20:30 +0100, Chris Hill wrote:
> Carsten Gerlach wrote:
> > Am Samstag 05. Juni 2010 11:15:16 schrieb Jon Burgess:
> >   
> >> Can you provide a map link to the exact area you modified?
> >> 
> >
> > Some weeks ago I fixed this coastline 
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=12193534 but is only in zoom level 14 
> > right 
> > rendered, all other levels show the old version...
> >   
> It just needed to be forced to rerender. Zoom 16 & 17 look better around 
> Plymouth now.
> Cheers, Chris

Unfortunately the code which does the automatic tile invalidation does
not work correctly for the coastline because it has no way to know when
the shapefiles are going to be updated and which tiles they effect. The
tiles either need to be marked manually or you have to wait until
another edit in the area triggers them to render again.

Jon



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker

[Chris Hill]

Carsten Gerlach wrote:
> Am Samstag 05. Juni 2010 11:15:16 schrieb Jon Burgess:
>   
>> Can you provide a map link to the exact area you modified?
>> 
>
> Some weeks ago I fixed this coastline 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=12193534 but is only in zoom level 14 right 
> rendered, all other levels show the old version...
>   
It just needed to be forced to rerender. Zoom 16 & 17 look better around 
Plymouth now.
Cheers, Chris

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker

[Carsten Gerlach]

Am Samstag 05. Juni 2010 11:15:16 schrieb Jon Burgess:
> Can you provide a map link to the exact area you modified?

Some weeks ago I fixed this coastline 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=12193534 but is only in zoom level 14 right 
rendered, all other levels show the old version...

Greetings, Carsten



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker

[Jon Burgess]

On Fri, 2010-06-04 at 14:42 -0300, Ulf Mehlig wrote:
> I've the impression that the coastline error checker is not working at
> the moment (last updated: 14th of April); coastline changes I've made
> some weeks ago in northern Brazil have not yet been applied to the
> openstreetmap.org mapnik layer. Is there anything one can do?

I don't know about the coastcheck web site but the coastline shapefiles
on the main mapnik layer have been updated several times since Apr 14th.
The latest update was done from the planet file this Weds. Can you
provide a map link to the exact area you modified?

Jon




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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Robin Paulson]

On 7 March 2010 13:55, Erik Johansson  wrote:
> Whoa, had a bad day? When things doesn't doesn't work like you want
> them to, it's not because the world is a horrible mess.

no, not a bad day. previous bad experiences on osm around tagging:
everyone's so concentrated on their own small problem, they ignore the
bigger picture of what osm is/could be for

anyway, back to mapping. gotta keep the stress levels down

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Robin Paulson]

On 6 March 2010 16:01, Apollinaris Schoell  wrote:
>> landuse? no, i didn't use that. i used leisure=park
>
> sure. ahh…  our messy key,tag combinations for areas natural, landuse, 
> leisure …
>
>>
>> and it's not a national park, only local council
>>
>
> we still use it for parks if it's the type of parks protecting nature and add 
> a admin_level
> similar to political boundary hierarchy
> key national_park is also documented that it can be used in a wider range of 
> parks.
>

yeah, i know. precisely why i don't get involved in these
discussions/tag admin anymore. everyone's quite happy adding more and
more tags to solve their little problem, with no consideration for how
it affects the whole.

so there are now three methods for tagging parks? good work that man!

is it any surprise it's a horrible mess?

/out

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2010/3/6 osm easingwold :
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.90445&lon=174.85045&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF

> The renderer is confused by having a park overlapping the sea and it's
> obviously getting the ordering wrong.


Yes. And therefore the problem lies in the rendering rules, not the
underlying data, that's why these should be modified, not the data.
Actually I can think of no case where water should not be rendered
above other nearby polygons. The only situations would be covered
underground water bodies, which should be tagged with a layer-tag and
probably some yet-to-come-underground-tag, so I think this issue can
be solved. (Probably the suggestion to map the water explicitly above
and tag it with natural water, tidal=yes is the best hack proposed
till now, but of course remains unsatisfactory).


> You lose the fact that the basin itself is part of the park, but I'm not
> sure how important that is.


IMHO it is important.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Apollinaris Schoell]

On 5 Mar 2010, at 13:41 , Robin Paulson wrote:
> 
> landuse? no, i didn't use that. i used leisure=park

sure. ahh…  our messy key,tag combinations for areas natural, landuse, leisure 
… 

> 
> and it's not a national park, only local council
> 

we still use it for parks if it's the type of parks protecting nature and add a 
admin_level similar to political boundary hierarchy
key national_park is also documented that it can be used in a wider range of 
parks. 

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Jeff Spirko]

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Robin Paulson  wrote:
> On 6 March 2010 06:23, Apollinaris Schoell  wrote:
>> Osmarender: add layer=-1 to the park
>> Mapnik: add a water polygon and this will render on top of all other area 
>> features.
> ugh, that's horrible.

I want to know how to get this right, as my interest is hiking and
many of the parks I frequent have ponds or lakes as part of the park.
There seems to be more feedback than the last place I asked (
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=6484 ).

IMHO, landuse= and natural= should be orthogonal functions.  Something
can be one or both.  A large area of landuse=park can include within
it a smaller area that is natural=water.  If someone uses the OSM data
to compute the area of the park, it should include the area of the
lake.  One could even imagine lakes that are partly within and partly
outside a park.

Whatever is actually there, the renderer should be able to handle it.
The renderer should color the land part of the park green and the
water part blue.

Best regards,
-Jeff

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The study of non-linear physics is like the study of non-elephant biology.

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Robin Paulson]

On 6 March 2010 06:23, Apollinaris Schoell  wrote:
> Didn't see when zoomed in to your view. clear now from low zoom.
> you can hack it but that is dirty tagging for the renderer.

it is indeed. i'll leave it as is, and come up with some bullshit for
when a casual map user asks why panmure basin is coloured green

> Osmarender: add layer=-1 to the park
> Mapnik: add a water polygon and this will render on top of all other area 
> features.

ugh, that's horrible.

> If you consider micro mapping in future it's probably better not to use the 
> landuse at all instead add a boundary national_park to render the boundary 
> itself and have landuse
> polygons for wood,meadow,… for the details
>

landuse? no, i didn't use that. i used leisure=park

and it's not a national park, only local council

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Robin Paulson]

On 6 March 2010 01:41, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> haven't you stated above that the water is part of the park? The
> multipolygon-relation will exclude the inner from the outer, so IMHO
> this is not your desired solution...

ah, yes. good point.

i hadn't understood it fully, thanks for pointing that out

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Apollinaris Schoell]

On 5 Mar 2010, at 24:29 , Robin Paulson wrote:

> On 5 March 2010 20:40, Apollinaris Schoell  wrote:
>> Don't use coastline but tag the basin with natural water or any other water 
>> type tags
>> like riverbank …
> 
> hmm, well if we can ignore for a moment the abomination of
> inconsistency that is water tagging in general and natural=water
> specifically, then no:
> 
> the basin is tidal, so it's coastline
> 

Didn't see when zoomed in to your view. clear now from low zoom.
you can hack it but that is dirty tagging for the renderer.

Osmarender: add layer=-1 to the park
Mapnik: add a water polygon and this will render on top of all other area 
features.

If you consider micro mapping in future it's probably better not to use the 
landuse at all instead add a boundary national_park to render the boundary 
itself and have landuse polygons for wood,meadow,… for the details



>> coastline is also sensitive to direction while water has to be a closed 
>> polygon only, direction doesn't matter
> 
> yes
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Chris Hill]

John F. Eldredge wrote:
> On a related issue, since a way that forms a closed loop is interpreted as 
> the boundary of an area rather than as a way, how does one map a road or 
> trail that forms a closed loop?
>
>   
It depends on the context.  A closed loop tagged with a highway tag is 
just a closed highway. Roundabouts are often simple closed loops, but 
render as a ring not an area. There are exceptions of course (it 
wouldn't be OSM without them :-)) If you want to draw a piazza draw the 
closed outline with highway=pedestrian which would normally render as a 
closed loop, but if you add area=yes the whole space is rendered as a 
filled piazza.

Cheers, Chris

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[John F. Eldredge]

On a related issue, since a way that forms a closed loop is interpreted as the 
boundary of an area rather than as a way, how does one map a road or trail that 
forms a closed loop?

--Original Message--
From: Robin Paulson
Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list
Subject: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park
Sent: Mar 5, 2010 1:17 AM

i'm after some advice. i know this is potentially tagging for the
renderer, but still

i've recently mapped a park which contains a basin. when the tiles
render, the whole area, including the water, renders green. how would
i tag this so the renderer understands the water bit should be treated
as water, and rendered blue?

cheers

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.90445&lon=174.85045&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Greg Troxel]

"Hillsman, Edward"  writes:

> I have a related question, which I've let sit for several months
> hoping to find an answer for. There is a park here
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=27.8394&lon=-82.5924&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF
>
> that includes wetland islands, wetland mainland, and dry
> mainland. Initially I could not get any of it to render as
> "park". Somehow I eventually dumbed into something that renders the
> wetland islands as park, but it required deleting the islands and
> retracing them--not sure why. Anyway, I don't want to have to retrace
> the mainland wetland coastline to do this, and I also need to connect
> that with the dry mainland section. The entire wetland mainland area
> in the view is part of the park, and I know from visits to the area
> where the northern boundaries for the dry areas are. Can someone
> advise how to do this? I've stayed away from doing any further work on
> the local coastline until I figure this out.

coastline and park should be entirely separate conceptually.  Tag it how
it is, and if it doesn't render how you think it should look into the
rendering rules.  Contorting the tagging to make the current rendering
incarnation work right seems like not a good plan.  I suspect the
rendering folks would be interested in a fix; I can easily see this
being a case not envisioned and not handled.


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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2010/3/5 Robin Paulson :
> they'd already rendered, but now someone else has drawn it
> incorrectly. i'll revert, use a polygon relation, and re-render


haven't you stated above that the water is part of the park? The
multipolygon-relation will exclude the inner from the outer, so IMHO
this is not your desired solution...

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Robin Paulson]

On 5 March 2010 20:39, John Smith  wrote:
> On 5 March 2010 17:17, Robin Paulson  wrote:
>> i've recently mapped a park which contains a basin. when the tiles
>> render, the whole area, including the water, renders green. how would
>> i tag this so the renderer understands the water bit should be treated
>> as water, and rendered blue?
>
> The tiles just needed to be marked dirty so they regenerated, try
> viewing it now.

they'd already rendered, but now someone else has drawn it
incorrectly. i'll revert, use a polygon relation, and re-render

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Robin Paulson]

On 5 March 2010 20:40, Apollinaris Schoell  wrote:
> Don't use coastline but tag the basin with natural water or any other water 
> type tags
> like riverbank …

hmm, well if we can ignore for a moment the abomination of
inconsistency that is water tagging in general and natural=water
specifically, then no:

the basin is tidal, so it's coastline

> coastline is also sensitive to direction while water has to be a closed 
> polygon only, direction doesn't matter

yes

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Robin Paulson]

On 5 March 2010 20:35, simon  wrote:

> In this case your park have to follow the coastline with the tham node
> (I have correct it to show you)

unfortunately the water is part of the park

> If it was a park with water in the midle you have to use multipolygone
> relation http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multipolygon

right, will do

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[Apollinaris Schoell]

Don't use coastline but tag the basin with natural water or any other water 
type tags like riverbank …
coastline is also sensitive to direction while water has to be a closed polygon 
only, direction doesn't matter


On 4 Mar 2010, at 23:17 , Robin Paulson wrote:

> i'm after some advice. i know this is potentially tagging for the
> renderer, but still
> 
> i've recently mapped a park which contains a basin. when the tiles
> render, the whole area, including the water, renders green. how would
> i tag this so the renderer understands the water bit should be treated
> as water, and rendered blue?
> 
> cheers
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.90445&lon=174.85045&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park

[John Smith]

On 5 March 2010 17:17, Robin Paulson  wrote:
> i've recently mapped a park which contains a basin. when the tiles
> render, the whole area, including the water, renders green. how would
> i tag this so the renderer understands the water bit should be treated
> as water, and rendered blue?

The tiles just needed to be marked dirty so they regenerated, try
viewing it now.

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker stalled

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

Hmm, ok. I've done than we'll see if it helps.

Thanks,

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Lennard  wrote:
> Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
>>
>> Interesting, hadn't noticed. I'll see if I can work out what's happening.
>
> Increase 600M to 700M and you're set for another few months.
>
> Also, the MAX_NODES_PER_WAY can now be dropped from 12000 to 2000, now that
> no 2000+ node ways are left in OSM, and none can be created. Unless avar
> finds a way around that too, actually. :)
>
> --
> Lennard
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker stalled

[Lennard]

Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> Interesting, hadn't noticed. I'll see if I can work out what's happening.

Increase 600M to 700M and you're set for another few months.

Also, the MAX_NODES_PER_WAY can now be dropped from 12000 to 2000, now 
that no 2000+ node ways are left in OSM, and none can be created. Unless 
avar finds a way around that too, actually. :)

-- 
Lennard

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker stalled

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

Interesting, hadn't noticed. I'll see if I can work out what's happening.

Have a nice day,

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Lennard  wrote:
> David Groom wrote:
>>
>> The date of the last update of the coastline error checker is shown as 27
>> Dec 2009.
>
> That was what I found when looking for new coastline shapefiles for the
> Haiti map. I'm now running the coastline checker for myself to get new
> shapefiles.
>
> Cc'ing Martijn van Oosterhout, as he's the author of the coastline error
> checker.
>
> --
> Lennard
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline error checker stalled

[Lennard]

David Groom wrote:
> The date of the last update of the coastline error checker is shown as 27 
> Dec 2009.

That was what I found when looking for new coastline shapefiles for the 
Haiti map. I'm now running the coastline checker for myself to get new 
shapefiles.

Cc'ing Martijn van Oosterhout, as he's the author of the coastline error 
checker.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline error checker shapefiles

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

Sure, on that page now is all the information used to generate the
coastline checker output.

Does this answer your question?

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David Groom  wrote:
> Coastline error checker shapefiles are available at
> http://hypercube.telascience.org/~kleptog/
>
> Is there any way that these can include self-intersection  and inverted
> polygon type errors?

Have a nice day,
-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Andre Hinrichs wrote:
> Am Samstag, den 01.08.2009, 22:45 +0200 schrieb Martijn van Oosterhout:
>> It's still on hypercube and it's not super fast, but it does appear to
>> work. Let me know if you see something odd.
>
> It seems that there is a problem with very small islands. They are
> reported as buggy even if they seem to be ok. I've reported such an
> error a while ago on WIKI:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Coastline_error_checker

Yeah, basically, there is some rounding done to simplify the polygons
so that stuff that makes no difference in rendering gets filtered
away. If the island is really small the end effect is that the
simplification leaves an area consisting of a single point, and so it
complains.

I could ofcourse stop it complaining, but the islands wont appear in
the output anywhere...

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[Andre Hinrichs]

Am Samstag, den 01.08.2009, 22:45 +0200 schrieb Martijn van Oosterhout:
> It's still on hypercube and it's not super fast, but it does appear to
> work. Let me know if you see something odd.

It seems that there is a problem with very small islands. They are
reported as buggy even if they seem to be ok. I've reported such an
error a while ago on WIKI:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Coastline_error_checker

Since this problem appears only for small islands i assume that this is
because of some kind of rounding error.

Here are two more of these:
http://dev.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html?zoom=16&lat=57.98157&lon=22.2024&layers=B00
http://dev.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html?zoom=16&lat=-31.99515&lon=115.75036&layers=B00


Regards
Andre



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "Martijn van Oosterhout" 
To: "David Groom" 
Cc: "Openstreetmap" 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline


>
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:26 PM, David Groom 
> wrote:
>>>> FWIW, I'm trying to get it working again (it was pointed out to me a
>>>> few days ago that hypercube was back online) however I keep running
>>>> into problems with corrupted planet dumps and daily diffs. I hope to
>>>> have it working again soon.
>>
>> Thanks Martijn
>>
>> Its such a useful tool to have available
>
> Well, I managed to get something working.

Martjin,

Thanks very much for fixing this.

David

>
> http://dev.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html
>
> (thanks to whoever put the page on dev, it's a much better place).
>
> All the data is now based on 0.6 inputs and it's quite obvious that
> since the 0.6 changeover the data is much much cleaner (many less
> errors).
>
> It's still on hypercube and it's not super fast, but it does appear to
> work. Let me know if you see something odd.
>
> Have a nice day,
> -- 
> Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:26 PM, David Groom wrote:
>>> FWIW, I'm trying to get it working again (it was pointed out to me a
>>> few days ago that hypercube was back online) however I keep running
>>> into problems with corrupted planet dumps and daily diffs. I hope to
>>> have it working again soon.
>
> Thanks Martijn
>
> Its such a useful tool to have available

Well, I managed to get something working.

http://dev.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html

(thanks to whoever put the page on dev, it's a much better place).

All the data is now based on 0.6 inputs and it's quite obvious that
since the 0.6 changeover the data is much much cleaner (many less
errors).

It's still on hypercube and it's not super fast, but it does appear to
work. Let me know if you see something odd.

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[Jon Burgess]

On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 10:37 +0100, David Groom wrote:
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chris Hill" 
> To: "OSM Talk" 
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:22 PM
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline
> 
> 
> >
> > I have altered the coastline in the Humber estuary, UK to reflect
> the
> > official position of where the coast ends and the river starts.  The
> > coastal area hasn't rendered in Mapnik yet [1].  I seem to remember
> that
> > a coastline update process needs to run to change the coastline.  Am
> I
> > right?
> 
> Yes. For mapnik, at high zoom levels the coast polygons used are
> generated 
> from shapefiles created by the coastline error checker.
> 
> The coastline error checker has been offline since sometime before mid
> June, 
> so no updated shapefiles have been created.
> 

All the coastline on the Mapnik layer come from two sets of shapefiles
(shoreline_300 & processed_p) which are generated every few weeks from
the planet dumps on the Mapnik tile server. The last update was done on
July 10th. 

 Jon




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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[Chris Hill]

David Groom wrote:

  
- Original Message - 
From: "Martijn van Oosterhout" 
To: "Openstreetmap" 
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline


  
  
Forward to ML.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Martijn van
Oosterhout wrote:


  On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:37 AM, David Groom 
wrote:
  
  
Yes. For mapnik, at high zoom levels the coast polygons used are 
generated
from shapefiles created by the coastline error checker.

The coastline error checker has been offline since sometime before mid 
June,
so no updated shapefiles have been created.

  
  FWIW, I'm trying to get it working again (it was pointed out to me a
few days ago that hypercube was back online) however I keep running
into problems with corrupted planet dumps and daily diffs. I hope to
have it working again soon.
  

  
  
Thanks Martijn

Its such a useful tool to have available

David

  

+1




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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "Martijn van Oosterhout" 
To: "Openstreetmap" 
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline


>
> Forward to ML.
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Martijn van
> Oosterhout wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:37 AM, David Groom 
>> wrote:
>>> Yes. For mapnik, at high zoom levels the coast polygons used are 
>>> generated
>>> from shapefiles created by the coastline error checker.
>>>
>>> The coastline error checker has been offline since sometime before mid 
>>> June,
>>> so no updated shapefiles have been created.
>>
>> FWIW, I'm trying to get it working again (it was pointed out to me a
>> few days ago that hypercube was back online) however I keep running
>> into problems with corrupted planet dumps and daily diffs. I hope to
>> have it working again soon.

Thanks Martijn

Its such a useful tool to have available

David


>>
>> Have a nice day,
>> --
>> Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/
>>
> -- 
> Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
> 



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

Forward to ML.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Martijn van
Oosterhout wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:37 AM, David Groom wrote:
>> Yes. For mapnik, at high zoom levels the coast polygons used are generated
>> from shapefiles created by the coastline error checker.
>>
>> The coastline error checker has been offline since sometime before mid June,
>> so no updated shapefiles have been created.
>
> FWIW, I'm trying to get it working again (it was pointed out to me a
> few days ago that hypercube was back online) however I keep running
> into problems with corrupted planet dumps and daily diffs. I hope to
> have it working again soon.
>
> Have a nice day,
> --
> Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/
>
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

[David Groom]

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Hill" 
To: "OSM Talk" 
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline


>
> I have altered the coastline in the Humber estuary, UK to reflect the
> official position of where the coast ends and the river starts.  The
> coastal area hasn't rendered in Mapnik yet [1].  I seem to remember that
> a coastline update process needs to run to change the coastline.  Am I
> right?

Yes. For mapnik, at high zoom levels the coast polygons used are generated 
from shapefiles created by the coastline error checker.

The coastline error checker has been offline since sometime before mid June, 
so no updated shapefiles have been created.

> If so, what do I need to do to run it or have it run?

Various request have been made on this mailing list, but I've now added a 
ticket to trac to hopefully speed up the process of getting it fixed.


David
>
> Cheers, Chris
>
> [1]
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.7087&lon=-0.3726&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF
>
> ___



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Jon Burgess wrote:
>> We wrote kleptog to please take a look at it, but having no access to
>> the original machine should make things harder.
>>
>> I don't know when he'll have time to work on it. Who else has past
>> knowledge about the coastline checker processes, and can work on this as
>> well?
>
> There have been several recent issues in the coastcheck code which would
> have prevented it working, I have fixed all these in SVN so the server
> might just need an update & rebuild of osm2coast to get things working
> again

That should do it, the process is not particularly magical, you just
need up-to-date planet dumps to make it work.

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline

[Jon Burgess]

On Sat, 2009-06-13 at 22:17 +0200, Lennard wrote:
> Ulf Mehlig wrote:
> > Thanks again, Lennard. I thought that dev.openstreetmap.nl is a
> > different machine that took over the services from hypercube. So, no
> > coastline for a longer period? Are there any informations about when
> > these services might be back? Shouldn't we update the wiki accordingly?
> 
> We wrote kleptog to please take a look at it, but having no access to 
> the original machine should make things harder.
> 
> I don't know when he'll have time to work on it. Who else has past 
> knowledge about the coastline checker processes, and can work on this as 
> well?

There have been several recent issues in the coastcheck code which would
have prevented it working, I have fixed all these in SVN so the server
might just need an update & rebuild of osm2coast to get things working
again


r15382 | jonb | 2009-05-31 14:50:29 +0100 (Sun, 31 May 2009) | 1 line

Update coastcheck limits to cope with up to 600M nodes, we just through
400M nodes

r15133 | jonb | 2009-05-20 21:01:32 +0100 (Wed, 20 May 2009) | 1 line

update osm2coast to ignore  elements

r14860 | jonb | 2009-05-01 09:06:37 +0100 (Fri, 01 May 2009) | 1 line

fix bzip2 issue with latest planet file as per latest osm2pgsql code



> PS: We have a new tile server for NL, and the 'tile' name was moved to 
> that. 'dev' is just the new alias for the old server, where the 
> coastline slippy still resides.

Jon



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Re: [OSM-talk] coastline

[Lennard]

Ulf Mehlig wrote:
> Thanks again, Lennard. I thought that dev.openstreetmap.nl is a
> different machine that took over the services from hypercube. So, no
> coastline for a longer period? Are there any informations about when
> these services might be back? Shouldn't we update the wiki accordingly?

We wrote kleptog to please take a look at it, but having no access to 
the original machine should make things harder.

I don't know when he'll have time to work on it. Who else has past 
knowledge about the coastline checker processes, and can work on this as 
well?

PS: We have a new tile server for NL, and the 'tile' name was moved to 
that. 'dev' is just the new alias for the old server, where the 
coastline slippy still resides.

-- 
Lennard

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