Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Nic Roets writes: On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: What's an 'ambassador' program? http://cloudmade.com/careers/community-ambassador Haha! Just because the job position is described there doesn't mean that there are any positions to be filled. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On 25 October 2010 15:52, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: Launched in the UK ? I guess that is why I have never heard of it. Considering it's 1 of many android handsets I can't say I'm surprised exactly, there seems to be a new one out every other week and they seem to alternate between being launched first in europe and the US... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
SotM11 is planned to be arranged just after the FOSS4G conference. I do not believe it is an accident because Steve Coast and Mikel Maron are members of the FOSS4G Local Organizing Committee (http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2011_Denver_LOC). It can be a good idea if people can spend the whole week and take part in the both conferences. Or then somebody could have a speech in both conferences. After all, we are not so far away from the FOSS4G folks and software. OSM was very visible in FOSS4G this year but also we might have something to learn from the paleogis side. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
For SOTM10, having it coincide with FOSS4G - also in Spain - was considered but rejected for, iirc, that very reason: the idea of SOTM sharing the stage with the bigger (at least in numbers) FOSS4G did not appeal. The advantages of having the conference stand on its own outweighed the disadvantage of missing out on the additional attendee potential. I did not really fall for that argument back then and I am glad to see the conferences coincide this time. It will be a different conference from the European ones for that and other reasons. But that's not a bad thing. OpenStreetMap evolves and SOTM should evolve with it. Martijn van Exel +++ m...@rtijn.org Laziness – Impatience – Hubris http://schaaltreinen.nl twitter: mvexel skype: mvexel flickr: rhodes On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: SotM11 is planned to be arranged just after the FOSS4G conference. I do not believe it is an accident because Steve Coast and Mikel Maron are members of the FOSS4G Local Organizing Committee (http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2011_Denver_LOC). It can be a good idea if people can spend the whole week and take part in the both conferences. Or then somebody could have a speech in both conferences. After all, we are not so far away from the FOSS4G folks and software. OSM was very visible in FOSS4G this year but also we might have something to learn from the paleogis side. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Indeed, that was exactly the reason why they didn't coincide in 2010. But then I heard quite a few people 'complain' that they had to go to Spain twice this year. Let's see how it works out this time. Greets, Floris Looijesteijn Martijn van Exel wrote: For SOTM10, having it coincide with FOSS4G - also in Spain - was considered but rejected for, iirc, that very reason: the idea of SOTM sharing the stage with the bigger (at least in numbers) FOSS4G did not appeal. The advantages of having the conference stand on its own outweighed the disadvantage of missing out on the additional attendee potential. I did not really fall for that argument back then and I am glad to see the conferences coincide this time. It will be a different conference from the European ones for that and other reasons. But that's not a bad thing. OpenStreetMap evolves and SOTM should evolve with it. Martijn van Exel +++ m...@rtijn.org Laziness Impatience Hubris http://schaaltreinen.nl twitter: mvexel skype: mvexel flickr: rhodes On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: SotM11 is planned to be arranged just after the FOSS4G conference. I do not believe it is an accident because Steve Coast and Mikel Maron are members of the FOSS4G Local Organizing Committee (http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2011_Denver_LOC). It can be a good idea if people can spend the whole week and take part in the both conferences. Or then somebody could have a speech in both conferences. After all, we are not so far away from the FOSS4G folks and software. OSM was very visible in FOSS4G this year but also we might have something to learn from the paleogis side. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Believe it or not (and I look forward to the conspiracy theories on 80n's mailing list) it's one very large coincidence. I originally pushed Denver (where I live) with some folks here for SOTM-US and Eric asked me to help with the FOSS4G bid for 2010. Both fell through. Then Hurricane and others took the SOTM-US bid and turned that in to a SOTM 2011 bid, and Eric did a ton of work on FOSS4G 2011 and both came through. Personally I have always thought there should be a strong separation between the conferences, and have advocated that in both camps. I'm super glad SOTM is coming to the US, there's huge potential here. Denver's a great place and it's my hope that SOTM '11 in Denver will help form a stronger community here. Steve stevecoast.com On Oct 25, 2010, at 1:39 AM, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: SotM11 is planned to be arranged just after the FOSS4G conference. I do not believe it is an accident because Steve Coast and Mikel Maron are members of the FOSS4G Local Organizing Committee (http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2011_Denver_LOC). It can be a good idea if people can spend the whole week and take part in the both conferences. Or then somebody could have a speech in both conferences. After all, we are not so far away from the FOSS4G folks and software. OSM was very visible in FOSS4G this year but also we might have something to learn from the paleogis side. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: contributors, core developers, authors, etc. are still in Germany, the UK and other countries of Western Europe, As an outsider to the bidding and selection process, I think that hosting it in the US will be good for OSM. If a company wants to announce a new technology, they almost always do it in the US for various reasons e.g. the story gets picked up by international TV channels, the vast numbers of foreign born US residents spread the idea throughout the world etc. Also consider the fact that the Cloudmade and MapQuest ambassador programs are / were aimed at the US and as sponsors, their preferences should be taken into consideration. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Hi, Julio Costa Zambelli wrote: I would not argue if a German city bids for the event (as long as English is still considered the lingua franca for it ;) I'm in Germany and I have always objected to the idea (even though there were many people in Amsterdam suggesting a location in Germany for the next SOTM). Not that it's my call but whenever someone asked me I said that OSM in Germany is strong enough already and doesn't need the extra PR afforded by such a conference. (Plus, we have a national OSM conference and two large non-OSM conferences that will have an OSM day or OSM track in 2011.) I appreciated that quite a few overseas visitors made their way to SOTM at Girona even though it meant a long trip for just a weekend, so maybe it is a bit unfair to expect them to come to Europe, but not Europeans to go elsewhere. The main concern I personally have with the Denver location is that I felt that SOTM at Girona was too sponsor-heavy already and I think that a US location will not exactly help to reverse that trend, but I'm aware that I am more sensitive to this than the average SOTM visitor so this is probably more a personal preference. But even if I personally might decide not to go, I still think it's entirely ok for the project to hold SOTM in the US. It may be true that currently most OSM developers and application makers are in Europe but there's a huge untapped potential of people in the US, and whatever they bring to the project will benefit all of us. In one of the following years, I think we should go to Asia for the same reasons. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
I'm within the group of people that have been saying 'hmm, really not sure that I will be able to make it to SotM outside of Europe' for the last few months. We made comments like this while the bidding process was on going, and I'm sure the OSMF team were aware that it was a big concern. My personal situation for the next year means I will have to deeply consider and see if I can afford (time and money) if I can go. I note the move to September, making use of the time Denver is most beautiful (so I'm told). Wasn't there a comment that this would affect the OSMF AGM? Will it still be held at SotM, or is that too late? I don't read the OSM mailing lists often, but I actually came here with a reason having heard the location announcement. As many people saw there was a high chance a winning bid being beyond Europe, it was suggested a local (UK?) SotM conference be held if that happens. I will bring this up on the GB-talk list and see what everyone thinks. The idea being that people might decide to come to that if they can't make it to Denver, or both. On 24 October 2010 11:14, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: In one of the following years, I think we should go to Asia for the same reasons. I was really up for Africa. But I could see that bid didn't look very strong this year, and I'm not sure how practical it would have been for me. Another year?... -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: In one of the following years, I think we should go to Asia for the same reasons. +1. Yes, please. :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On 24/10/2010 09:40, Nic Roets wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl mailto:julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: contributors, core developers, authors, etc. are still in Germany, the UK and other countries of Western Europe, As an outsider to the bidding and selection process, I think that hosting it in the US will be good for OSM. If a company wants to announce a new technology, they almost always do it in the US for various reasons e.g. the story gets picked up by international TV channels, the vast numbers of foreign born US residents spread the idea throughout the world etc Is that why Dell launched it's Streak mobile 'phone in the UK first? . Also consider the fact that the Cloudmade and MapQuest ambassador programs What's an 'ambassador' program? Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On 24 October 2010 14:15, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: In one of the following years, I think we should go to Asia for the same reasons. +1. Yes, please. :-) Atleast US had SOTM USA and both CM and Mapquest pushing mapping with lot of AVAILABLE data from tiger or other Govt areas . In Asia we rarely get data sources . I think the focus should be turned towards asia . Hope to see the event at bangalore,singapore or shanghai ;) Regards, Pavithran -- pavithran sakamuri http://look-pavi.blogspot.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 24/10/2010 09:40, Nic Roets wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: contributors, core developers, authors, etc. are still in Germany, the UK and other countries of Western Europe, As an outsider to the bidding and selection process, I think that hosting it in the US will be good for OSM. If a company wants to announce a new technology, they almost always do it in the US for various reasons e.g. the story gets picked up by international TV channels, the vast numbers of foreign born US residents spread the idea throughout the world etc Is that why Dell launched it's Streak mobile 'phone in the UK first? Launched in the UK ? I guess that is why I have never heard of it. I guess you are not too fond of the US being the trend setter for the world, in which case I would like to point out two things: The UK had it's turn during the colonial era. The US is loosing it's throne to the Internet i.e. location is becoming less and less important. . Also consider the fact that the Cloudmade and MapQuest ambassador programs What's an 'ambassador' program? http://cloudmade.com/careers/community-ambassador Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Richard, I have to make something clear first, I have _nothing_ against Denver, and I will do my best effort to have the money and the time to go to the SOTM2011 there. I love going to the states (three times, with zero bad experiences yet) and I was not being sarcastic about my good experience with the guys from the DHS. So I am not a detractor of any particular city but of the idea of doing the event far away from most of the people that we know are interested in going to it. I agree with you about OSI+OSMF amazing efforts that influences so many people, including myself. As much as I also agree with you in the general idea of moving the SOTM around (a.k.a taking it out of Europe for the first time), the fact is (and this is not a matter of perspective) that most of the contributors, core developers, authors, etc. are still in Germany, the UK and other countries of Western Europe, and that taking the event to Colorado could have an effect on the number of attendees similar to the effect of doing the FOSS4G in Australia and South Africa[1], or maybe worst, at least assuming that it will not be held in the days right before or after the OSGeo conference in Denver (a coordinated schedule may compensate the decline caused by the distance from Europe). I do realize that there may be a positive effect in terms of showing the project to new people that may eventually become the new contributors, core developers, authors, etc. I am just in a ~1000Km. bus trip to attend the national Linux Encounter to do my OSM talk (I did it this Friday morning), so I guess I am one of the guys on the not so complaining side of the table ;) As far as I know and the article [2] in the State of the Map blog explains, 5 of the beneficiaries of the scholarship had their visas denied by the Spanish embassies in their countries; 1 by the German embassy; and 1 by the French embassy. So I correct myself in the matter that this was a particularly Spaniard discriminatory act, this was a European one. Anyway, I keep my bet on the DHS, they are quite reliable in this kind of things. Best Regards, Julio Costa [1] http://wiki.osgeo.osuosl.org/wiki/FOSS4G#Local_Organizing_Committee [2] http://stateofthemap.org/sotm-scholarship-program/ On 22 October 2010 18:02, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: Henk, I do not want to argue since this just a personal opinion from someone that has gone just to one SOTM and only thanks to the OSI Scholarship, but: OSI is great. I'm glad that folks from so many places have been able to attend. [ ... ] but we are talking about the _global_ State Of The Map It should move around then? As I understand it the Drupal project alternates between events in Europe and North America. I don't know how the percentage of contributors is divided in the Drupal community. But the fact is that any and every location will have detractors. There will always be a set of those who can't or won't make the trip. I've heard conference attendees complain about a 45 minute trip across town to attend, while they were sitting at a table with people who flew-in across the country. Perspective plays a part here. ;-) Can we expect the Department of Homeland Security to be any less obstructive with the scholarship beneficiaries than the agencies in Europe? I do not want to make an stereotype of the officers of this agency, since they have treated me so well every time I have gone to the states, but to be honest if the Spaniards denied 7 visas, I will bet money that this guys will deny the same or more. It was my impression that some potential attendees were denied travel by their own country, rather than entry visas to Spain. If so, the destination country may not matter in those cases. Julio, I hope that you will be able to attend in Denver. I hope that I will be able to attend as well. :-) I think it is a beautiful part of the world. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Dear Serge, I will reply to your message tomorrow because right now it is 3:20AM here and I just can not keep my eyes open and mind focus anymore. Cheers, Julio Costa On 22 October 2010 20:38, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: Henk, I do not want to argue since this just a personal opinion from someone that has gone just to one SOTM and only thanks to the OSI Scholarship, but: What was the election criteria? I guess easy access by public transport, low-budget airlines, and visas for the OSI+OSMF Scholarship beneficiaries are not in the list. The planning committee's notes are here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2010/Organisation/Meetings I know the cost of getting to Europe for many of us is huge, but the truth is that most of the people that goes to the event is from Western Europe, and that it is not because the event is done near them, but because those are the countries with the biggest and most active communities (again some may argue that they have those big and active communities because events like this one are made near them). If that were really true, they'd all be in Germany; not Spain, not the Netherlands. So we can not expect to have the event near us at the cost of most of the people interested in participate paying more to get to it or just no going to it. Can we expect the Department of Homeland Security to be any less obstructive with the scholarship beneficiaries than the agencies in Europe? As mentioned by someone else, the visa issues last year were mostly due to the citizens of the countries themselves, with very few exceptions. I do not want to make an stereotype of the officers of this agency, since they have treated me so well every time I have gone to the states, but to be honest if the Spaniards denied 7 visas, I will bet money that this guys will deny the same or more. I agree in the fact that the US market/community needs to be developed/encouraged, and that the sponsorship of American companies may be a strong argument to take the event there, but complicating things for most of the most active community members does not sound as the wisest step to me. My two cents* Julio, I don't disagree with any of your substantive points and I've expressed by opinions on where I'd like SoTM to be privately, but the time for lively debate is before the decision is made. The decision making process was widely advertised and public. Once the decision is made it's not the time to undermine the process by criticizing the choice, and my extension the organization and the people who are doing their best. Just my .02. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Dear Serge, I followed the bids for the SOTM2011 and actually translated Viennas bid. That is why I am expressing my surprise that the organizing team selected a city that does not meet some of the conditions that where used as the definitive elements [1] in past events, the same with the only recommendation [2] by a non-member of the team. I would not argue if a German city bids for the event (as long as English is still considered the lingua franca for it ;) And I agree with the idea of not making it every year in the same place, but I have a problem accepting the idea of taking it as far as possible of the places that we know have tons of people willing to go to the event. I hope I am wrong and reality shows that many people is willing to go to the event in Colorado (the local GIS industry should provide lots of people for probing this) and take the place of some of the people from Europe that will not be able to pay or take the time to travel. About the visa issue, I am not sure if you or the blog article is right, but my bet is that the DHS will not make things any easier for the scholarship beneficiaries either way. I am not criticizing _the choice_ but precisely _the way_ the previously published criteria were not completely respected. There was no way to know in advance that this was going to happen (last year this criteria were ruthlessly respected). I am not sure if I missed the widely advertised and public decision making process (maybe I am not subscribed to the right mailing list), but I only read the bidding process in the wiki, not the way the team finally decided. I am not undermining the process by asking how much the previously published selection criteria really weighted for the final choice, on the contrary, I am trying to make it as clear as possible for future SOTM bidding cities. Regards, Julio Costa [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2011/Bid#Criteria [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:State_Of_The_Map_2011/Bid On 22 October 2010 20:38, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: Henk, I do not want to argue since this just a personal opinion from someone that has gone just to one SOTM and only thanks to the OSI Scholarship, but: What was the election criteria? I guess easy access by public transport, low-budget airlines, and visas for the OSI+OSMF Scholarship beneficiaries are not in the list. The planning committee's notes are here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2010/Organisation/Meetings I know the cost of getting to Europe for many of us is huge, but the truth is that most of the people that goes to the event is from Western Europe, and that it is not because the event is done near them, but because those are the countries with the biggest and most active communities (again some may argue that they have those big and active communities because events like this one are made near them). If that were really true, they'd all be in Germany; not Spain, not the Netherlands. So we can not expect to have the event near us at the cost of most of the people interested in participate paying more to get to it or just no going to it. Can we expect the Department of Homeland Security to be any less obstructive with the scholarship beneficiaries than the agencies in Europe? As mentioned by someone else, the visa issues last year were mostly due to the citizens of the countries themselves, with very few exceptions. I do not want to make an stereotype of the officers of this agency, since they have treated me so well every time I have gone to the states, but to be honest if the Spaniards denied 7 visas, I will bet money that this guys will deny the same or more. I agree in the fact that the US market/community needs to be developed/encouraged, and that the sponsorship of American companies may be a strong argument to take the event there, but complicating things for most of the most active community members does not sound as the wisest step to me. My two cents* Julio, I don't disagree with any of your substantive points and I've expressed by opinions on where I'd like SoTM to be privately, but the time for lively debate is before the decision is made. The decision making process was widely advertised and public. Once the decision is made it's not the time to undermine the process by criticizing the choice, and my extension the organization and the people who are doing their best. Just my .02. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Henk, I do not want to argue since this just a personal opinion from someone that has gone just to one SOTM and only thanks to the OSI Scholarship, but: What was the election criteria? I guess easy access by public transport, low-budget airlines, and visas for the OSI+OSMF Scholarship beneficiaries are not in the list. Even though one of the reasons to choose Girona over Genova for this years SOTM was that it has a Low-Budget Airline hub in its airport. I know about JetBlue, but we are talking about the _global_ State Of The Map, and not about SOTM US. I know the cost of getting to Europe for many of us is huge, but the truth is that most of the people that goes to the event is from Western Europe, and that it is not because the event is done near them, but because those are the countries with the biggest and most active communities (again some may argue that they have those big and active communities because events like this one are made near them). So we can not expect to have the event near us at the cost of most of the people interested in participate paying more to get to it or just no going to it. Can we expect the Department of Homeland Security to be any less obstructive with the scholarship beneficiaries than the agencies in Europe? I do not want to make an stereotype of the officers of this agency, since they have treated me so well every time I have gone to the states, but to be honest if the Spaniards denied 7 visas, I will bet money that this guys will deny the same or more. I agree in the fact that the US market/community needs to be developed/encouraged, and that the sponsorship of American companies may be a strong argument to take the event there, but complicating things for most of the most active community members does not sound as the wisest step to me. My two cents* Best Regards, Julio Costa * I say it again, no harm intended. I expect a certain degree of violence in the replies anyway ;) On 21 October 2010 17:09, Henk Hoff toffeh...@gmail.com wrote: The host city of the 5th edition of State of the Map is chosen to be Denver, Colorado. The event will take place in September 2011. Here's the announcement: http://opengeodata.org/denver-to-host-2011-state-of-the-map You can read the Denver-bid here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2011/Bid/Denver Cheers, Henk Hoff SotM organizing team ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: Henk, I do not want to argue since this just a personal opinion from someone that has gone just to one SOTM and only thanks to the OSI Scholarship, but: OSI is great. I'm glad that folks from so many places have been able to attend. [ ... ] but we are talking about the _global_ State Of The Map It should move around then? As I understand it the Drupal project alternates between events in Europe and North America. I don't know how the percentage of contributors is divided in the Drupal community. But the fact is that any and every location will have detractors. There will always be a set of those who can't or won't make the trip. I've heard conference attendees complain about a 45 minute trip across town to attend, while they were sitting at a table with people who flew-in across the country. Perspective plays a part here. ;-) Can we expect the Department of Homeland Security to be any less obstructive with the scholarship beneficiaries than the agencies in Europe? I do not want to make an stereotype of the officers of this agency, since they have treated me so well every time I have gone to the states, but to be honest if the Spaniards denied 7 visas, I will bet money that this guys will deny the same or more. It was my impression that some potential attendees were denied travel by their own country, rather than entry visas to Spain. If so, the destination country may not matter in those cases. Julio, I hope that you will be able to attend in Denver. I hope that I will be able to attend as well. :-) I think it is a beautiful part of the world. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: Henk, I do not want to argue since this just a personal opinion from someone that has gone just to one SOTM and only thanks to the OSI Scholarship, but: What was the election criteria? I guess easy access by public transport, low-budget airlines, and visas for the OSI+OSMF Scholarship beneficiaries are not in the list. The planning committee's notes are here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2010/Organisation/Meetings I know the cost of getting to Europe for many of us is huge, but the truth is that most of the people that goes to the event is from Western Europe, and that it is not because the event is done near them, but because those are the countries with the biggest and most active communities (again some may argue that they have those big and active communities because events like this one are made near them). If that were really true, they'd all be in Germany; not Spain, not the Netherlands. So we can not expect to have the event near us at the cost of most of the people interested in participate paying more to get to it or just no going to it. Can we expect the Department of Homeland Security to be any less obstructive with the scholarship beneficiaries than the agencies in Europe? As mentioned by someone else, the visa issues last year were mostly due to the citizens of the countries themselves, with very few exceptions. I do not want to make an stereotype of the officers of this agency, since they have treated me so well every time I have gone to the states, but to be honest if the Spaniards denied 7 visas, I will bet money that this guys will deny the same or more. I agree in the fact that the US market/community needs to be developed/encouraged, and that the sponsorship of American companies may be a strong argument to take the event there, but complicating things for most of the most active community members does not sound as the wisest step to me. My two cents* Julio, I don't disagree with any of your substantive points and I've expressed by opinions on where I'd like SoTM to be privately, but the time for lively debate is before the decision is made. The decision making process was widely advertised and public. Once the decision is made it's not the time to undermine the process by criticizing the choice, and my extension the organization and the people who are doing their best. Just my .02. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.
Quick correction. The planning for 2011 is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2011/Bid - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
