Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
How do I use and tag private roads? I don't really bother. If a road is open for travel I don't care much if it's private. If a road has a gate, then, um, at least in most cases it's off limits. The gate is a better signal for routing compared to private/public. There are too may private roads that are fully open for general traffic. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
Il giorno 07/set/2014, alle ore 09:11, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com ha scritto: How do I use and tag private roads? I don't really bother. If a road is open for travel I don't care much if it's private. If a road has a gate, then, um, at least in most cases it's off limits. The gate is a better signal for routing compared to private/public. There are too may private roads that are fully open for general traffic. Generally we don't tag ownership but only access rights (access=private for restricted access, used e.g. on highways and gate nodes). You could use something like proprietor_type=private Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
On 7 September 2014 11:45, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Generally we don't tag ownership but only access rights What about operator= ? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
In Brazil the operator= tag is used for who is responsible for maintenance of a certain highway, In Brazil we have mainly 3 levels of administration indicating who is responsible for financing, who owns the property under the highway, etc (these 3 levels are federal, state, and municipal highways), legally there can exist private highways, though these would most likely be access roads to certain industrial areas (I think there are negotiations whether the access highway to Porto de Açu (Açu Superport) will be private (EBX Group) or state (Rio de Janeiro state), but this is an exceptional case). Many state and federal highways have been contracted to private companies for improving road quality and to do maintenance. Such contracts can be for the entire length of a highway or for a specific part, the federal highways in the state Rio Grande do Sul is maybe the most extreme cases, where the same highway might have up to 5 different operator contracts, each a shorter section, or it can be as in Espírito Santo state where the federal BR-101 highway have been granted in one single contract of 25 years through the entire state. In Brazil, the operator= tag have also been used where the proper government organisations are responsible for maintenance, such as operator=DER-MG (or can also be noted as operator=DER/MG). In the case of concessions (private maintenance), the tag can be operator=ECO-101, operator=“Autopista Fluminense”, etc. In other words, if EBX group will be financing the access road to Açu, the tag can be operator=EBX (or the name of the daughter company), but they might also outsource the maintenance, like what was announced a few months ago regarding the operation of Açu Port, where it was announced that LLX (the EBX company for logistics) will not be operating the port after all. In theory a property tag can be used to denote the owner of the highway, though I think this in many cases are covered in a network tag (in Brazil we use a scheme of network tags for denoting federal, state and municipal highways), which could be extended for private highways, though I feel the tag name probably will be wrong, a private highway will most likely not form part of a larger network, and most likely be of a limited extension. I am not sure how this translates to other countries though Aun Johnsen On Sep 7, 2014, at 9:00, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Message: 4 Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 12:24:50 +0100 From: Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk To: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads Message-ID: cabixoekbebtzeumv86tnztbw2o6i2spqtylqhacagbfiaj_...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 7 September 2014 11:45, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Generally we don't tag ownership but only access rights What about operator= ? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
Paul Johnson writes: On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:47 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: In the UK there are rights of way which date back in time to the days of pack horses and long distance footpaths. I don't think you have the equivalent in North America. Let me introduce you to the four westernmost timezones out of the five used in the 50 states... Five. Vermont has the concept of legal rights of way that don't expire from disuse. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:47 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: In the UK there are rights of way which date back in time to the days of pack horses and long distance footpaths. I don't think you have the equivalent in North America. Let me introduce you to the four westernmost timezones out of the five used in the 50 states... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
Hi Matthijs, Spotted the following sign related to your tagging of private roads discussion the other day. Enjoy :-) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J5ZA1hu93beGxtSTVGeUR2aFRqQzdaYXNGR0d6WlBhQXFr/edit?usp=sharing Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
access=yes, skateboard=no, bicycle=careful? :) -- Matthijs On 10 August 2014 16:33, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Matthijs, Spotted the following sign related to your tagging of private roads discussion the other day. Enjoy :-) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J5ZA1hu93beGxtSTVGeUR2aFRqQzdaYXNGR0d6WlBhQXFr/edit?usp=sharing Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
These are generally called permissive paths. On Mon, 4 Aug 2014, at 02:55 AM, john whelan wrote: Whilst I think of it there are some footpaths and roads in the UK which are open to the public on 364 days a year but closed one day a year to prevent them from becoming a public right of way. Cheerio John On 3 August 2014 21:47, john whelan [1]jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: In the UK there are rights of way which date back in time to the days of pack horses and long distance footpaths. I don't think you have the equivalent in North America. So in the UK a right of way may still follow a privately maintained road. It's probably better to leave the tagging of this to local mappers who hopefully know the rules/laws and they are different in different countries. Cheerio John On 3 August 2014 21:35, John F. Eldredge [2]j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: In the USA, it depends upon whether the property owner has given permission for public use. If a private road through an apartment complex is signed as residents and guests only, for example, an outsider driving through can be charged with trespassing. On August 3, 2014 6:50:55 AM CDT, Colin Smale [3]colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: It depends whether a right of way exists. Things are rather complicated in the UK. Private means private, so no entry by default. If you are visiting an address on a private road, you have presumably been invited, explicitly or implicitly. An unofficial sign residents only might not have any force in law. A road in private ownership, with a public right of way, can be used though if it is a byway open to all traffic. Landowners often object to rights of way across their land and might try to discourage their use with misleading signs. On 3 August 2014 12:43:50 CEST, Matthijs Melissen [4]i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt [5]vosc...@gmail.com wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut? -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list [6]talk@openstreetmap.org [7]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk --- - ___ talk mailing list [8]talk@openstreetmap.org [9]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- [10]j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ talk mailing list [11]talk@openstreetmap.org [12]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list [13]talk@openstreetmap.org [14]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk References 1. mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com 2. mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com 3. mailto:colin.sm...@xs4all.nl 4. mailto:i...@matthijsmelissen.nl 5. mailto:vosc...@gmail.com 6. mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org 7. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 8. mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org 9. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 10. mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com 11. mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org 12. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 13. mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org 14. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads (Matthijs Melissen)
Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Volker ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut? -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
It depends whether a right of way exists. Things are rather complicated in the UK. Private means private, so no entry by default. If you are visiting an address on a private road, you have presumably been invited, explicitly or implicitly. An unofficial sign residents only might not have any force in law. A road in private ownership, with a public right of way, can be used though if it is a byway open to all traffic. Landowners often object to rights of way across their land and might try to discourage their use with misleading signs. On 3 August 2014 12:43:50 CEST, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut? -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads (Matthijs Melissen)
Il giorno 03/ago/2014, alle ore 12:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com ha scritto: I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. even more if you are not a car, most of these signs in areas like Italy and Germany are put up against cars to avoid occupying them the usually rare resource parking space. The general truth is, that you might have to do further research for every individual case in order to put it right. Ownership and right of way are orthogonal and often private road refers to ownership and not to the right of way. Road owners sometimes try to discourage usage of their roads, even if legally everyone is entitled to use it. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
On 2014-08-03 11:00, Matthijs Melissen wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? Thanks in advance. Depends on just what sort of road it is, and how it is signed. ie are they actually official signs or something more homemade. Often a Private road sign is specifically referring to motor vehicles, so it should just be tagged as motor_vehicle=private (or motor_vehicle=no). In Scotland, you would generally have a right to walk or cycle there etc, so should also be tagged as foot=yes, bicycle=yes. Not sure about the legality in England and Wales. Craig ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
As this discussion is about UK specifics, I thought it would be a good plan to reach out to the talk-GB list. --colin On 2014-08-03 16:44, Colin Smale wrote: On 2014-08-03 16:24, Craig Wallace wrote: On 2014-08-03 11:00, Matthijs Melissen wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? Thanks in advance. Depends on just what sort of road it is, and how it is signed. ie are they actually official signs or something more homemade. Often a Private road sign is specifically referring to motor vehicles, so it should just be tagged as motor_vehicle=private (or motor_vehicle=no). How about horses? How do you conclude that these signs are only for motor vehicles? In Scotland, you would generally have a right to walk or cycle there etc, so should also be tagged as foot=yes, bicycle=yes. There are exceptions to this, which include Land on which there is a house, caravan, tent or other place affording a person privacy or shelter, and sufficient adjacent land to enable those living there to have reasonable measures of privacy and to ensure that their enjoyment of the house or place is not unreasonably disturbed. IANAL but I suspect this might be applicable to residential roads in private ownership. Not sure about the legality in England and Wales. Land ownership in EW is absolute isn't it? Trumped only by a public right-of-way. Craig ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1] [1 [1]] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
On 03/08/14 15:49, Colin Smale wrote: As this discussion is about UK specifics, I thought it would be a good plan to reach out to the talk-GB list. The only things I would say you can commonly assume from such signs are that the road is unadopted, and that the residents/owners would like you to think that they can control access to it. In reality such roads may, even though they are not adopted and are hence not maintained at public expense, be highways with an associated right of way for the public. It's quite likely that the owners have the right to control parking but less likely that they have the right to control access and passing along the road. See, for example: http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate/atoz/a_to_z/service.asp?u_id=1065tab=3siteid=5409pageid=29027e=e Tom --colin On 2014-08-03 16:44, Colin Smale wrote: On 2014-08-03 16:24, Craig Wallace wrote: On 2014-08-03 11:00, Matthijs Melissen wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? Thanks in advance. Depends on just what sort of road it is, and how it is signed. ie are they actually official signs or something more homemade. Often a Private road sign is specifically referring to motor vehicles, so it should just be tagged as motor_vehicle=private (or motor_vehicle=no). How about horses? How do you conclude that these signs are only for motor vehicles? In Scotland, you would generally have a right to walk or cycle there etc, so should also be tagged as foot=yes, bicycle=yes. There are exceptions to this, which include Land on which there is a house, caravan, tent or other place affording a person privacy or shelter, and sufficient adjacent land to enable those living there to have reasonable measures of privacy and to ensure that their enjoyment of the house or place is not unreasonably disturbed. IANAL but I suspect this might be applicable to residential roads in private ownership. Not sure about the legality in England and Wales. Land ownership in EW is absolute isn't it? Trumped only by a public right-of-way. Craig ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk] Links: -- [1]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-GB mailing list talk...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
On 03/08/14 17:02, Tom Hughes wrote: See, for example: http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate/atoz/a_to_z/service.asp?u_id=1065tab=3siteid=5409pageid=29027e=e http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn00402.pdf is also informative. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
In the USA, it depends upon whether the property owner has given permission for public use. If a private road through an apartment complex is signed as residents and guests only, for example, an outsider driving through can be charged with trespassing. On August 3, 2014 6:50:55 AM CDT, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: It depends whether a right of way exists. Things are rather complicated in the UK. Private means private, so no entry by default. If you are visiting an address on a private road, you have presumably been invited, explicitly or implicitly. An unofficial sign residents only might not have any force in law. A road in private ownership, with a public right of way, can be used though if it is a byway open to all traffic. Landowners often object to rights of way across their land and might try to discourage their use with misleading signs. On 3 August 2014 12:43:50 CEST, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut? -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
In the UK there are rights of way which date back in time to the days of pack horses and long distance footpaths. I don't think you have the equivalent in North America. So in the UK a right of way may still follow a privately maintained road. It's probably better to leave the tagging of this to local mappers who hopefully know the rules/laws and they are different in different countries. Cheerio John On 3 August 2014 21:35, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: In the USA, it depends upon whether the property owner has given permission for public use. If a private road through an apartment complex is signed as residents and guests only, for example, an outsider driving through can be charged with trespassing. On August 3, 2014 6:50:55 AM CDT, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: It depends whether a right of way exists. Things are rather complicated in the UK. Private means private, so no entry by default. If you are visiting an address on a private road, you have presumably been invited, explicitly or implicitly. An unofficial sign residents only might not have any force in law. A road in private ownership, with a public right of way, can be used though if it is a byway open to all traffic. Landowners often object to rights of way across their land and might try to discourage their use with misleading signs. On 3 August 2014 12:43:50 CEST, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut? -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
Whilst I think of it there are some footpaths and roads in the UK which are open to the public on 364 days a year but closed one day a year to prevent them from becoming a public right of way. Cheerio John On 3 August 2014 21:47, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: In the UK there are rights of way which date back in time to the days of pack horses and long distance footpaths. I don't think you have the equivalent in North America. So in the UK a right of way may still follow a privately maintained road. It's probably better to leave the tagging of this to local mappers who hopefully know the rules/laws and they are different in different countries. Cheerio John On 3 August 2014 21:35, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: In the USA, it depends upon whether the property owner has given permission for public use. If a private road through an apartment complex is signed as residents and guests only, for example, an outsider driving through can be charged with trespassing. On August 3, 2014 6:50:55 AM CDT, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: It depends whether a right of way exists. Things are rather complicated in the UK. Private means private, so no entry by default. If you are visiting an address on a private road, you have presumably been invited, explicitly or implicitly. An unofficial sign residents only might not have any force in law. A road in private ownership, with a public right of way, can be used though if it is a byway open to all traffic. Landowners often object to rights of way across their land and might try to discourage their use with misleading signs. On 3 August 2014 12:43:50 CEST, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut? -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads
It varies by jurisdiction within the U.S., too; Vermont has an Ancient Roads doctrine that has kept many right-of-ways legally open despite towns no longer maintaining them. It gets a bit more complicated in that some of them are posted contrary to their legal status, and the only way to definitively answer the question at this point in time is to dig through local records dating back to the founding of the town in question. Vermont has changed the law recently to require all towns document all their right-of-ways on the standard town highway maps within a certain number of years, which I think is coming up soon. I believe that New Hampshire and Maine also have historic right-of-ways that are no longer town-maintained but are still legally open to public travel. To bring this back on topic (at least somewhat), I've been tagging many of the Vermont ancient roads as tracks (which they are) and explicitly setting motor_vehicle=yes, foot=yes, etc to indicate public access. Whether or not to route on such ways is a whole other topic, I suspect. On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 9:47 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: In the UK there are rights of way which date back in time to the days of pack horses and long distance footpaths. I don't think you have the equivalent in North America. So in the UK a right of way may still follow a privately maintained road. It's probably better to leave the tagging of this to local mappers who hopefully know the rules/laws and they are different in different countries. Cheerio John On 3 August 2014 21:35, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: In the USA, it depends upon whether the property owner has given permission for public use. If a private road through an apartment complex is signed as residents and guests only, for example, an outsider driving through can be charged with trespassing. On August 3, 2014 6:50:55 AM CDT, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: It depends whether a right of way exists. Things are rather complicated in the UK. Private means private, so no entry by default. If you are visiting an address on a private road, you have presumably been invited, explicitly or implicitly. An unofficial sign residents only might not have any force in law. A road in private ownership, with a public right of way, can be used though if it is a byway open to all traffic. Landowners often object to rights of way across their land and might try to discourage their use with misleading signs. On 3 August 2014 12:43:50 CEST, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as: - 'Private road' - 'Private road no parking' - 'Private road no parking no turning' - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning' How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private? I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional signs that forbid entering. A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes. Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut? -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Kevin Broderick k...@kevinbroderick.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
