Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
Hendrik T. Voelker wrote: So we have to come up with a way to contain alternating versions with time or other kind of restrictions. This would also allow construction sites to be mapped. ---8--- timecapsule frame from=1.1.2009 till=5.1.2009 node ... / way ... / relation ... / /frame frame !-- default without time frame -- /frame /timecapsule ---8--- from and till might need some additional possibilities to describe dates, like First Saturday in March or every two years from 1.3. till 9.3. ... Cheers Hendrik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
On 07/01/09 22:50, Stephen Hope wrote: We already have historical tagged items - things that don't currently exist. (US Civil war battlesites, etc). Battlesites are different, they are still around in some way. You can still go to a field and there'll be sign saying The Battle of X took place here, so it's a valid thing to map. That's not the same as an old road that has been dug up and is now someone's back garden. There is a festival near me that lasts for 1 1/2 weeks each year. Some people start camping there two-three weeks early to get a good spot. The rest of the year there is a couple of permanent roads, with a lot of permanent toilets and not much else, in the middle of some state forest. I would like to map the site next time it occurs, and then leave the temporary ways in a disused state, but in the database so it's easy to turn them on again when they actually exist. That sounds like a good idea. The permanent features should be mapped for sure. Some sort of disused tag sounds like a the right thing to do. Rory signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
2009/1/8 Hendrik T. Voelker hvoel...@nutrimatic.de: Hendrik T. Voelker wrote: So we have to come up with a way to contain alternating versions with time or other kind of restrictions. This would also allow construction sites to be mapped. ---8--- timecapsule frame from=1.1.2009 till=5.1.2009 node ... / way ... / relation ... / /frame frame !-- default without time frame -- /frame /timecapsule ---8--- from and till might need some additional possibilities to describe dates, like First Saturday in March or every two years from 1.3. till 9.3. ... Cheers Hendrik Surely it's possible within the current data model without resorting to further complexity. Relations should be able to handle them fairly well... -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
2009/1/8 Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com: 2009/1/8 Hendrik T. Voelker hvoel...@nutrimatic.de: Hendrik T. Voelker wrote: So we have to come up with a way to contain alternating versions with time or other kind of restrictions. This would also allow construction sites to be mapped. ---8--- timecapsule frame from=1.1.2009 till=5.1.2009 node ... / way ... / relation ... / /frame frame !-- default without time frame -- /frame /timecapsule ---8--- from and till might need some additional possibilities to describe dates, like First Saturday in March or every two years from 1.3. till 9.3. ... Cheers Hendrik Surely it's possible within the current data model without resorting to further complexity. Relations should be able to handle them fairly well... So long as you rename the tags used on ways so as not to confuse anybody not expecting it. And as long as you don't try to have too many objects per relation. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
I think that temporary and historical prefixes are the best answer to this, possibly with a relation for roads that are different due to the same event, project, etc. Tag things with what they are generally at the current day, and add exceptions as needed. I would envision an example like: highway = unclassified name = Main Street temporary:highway = pedestrian temporary:start_date = 2009-01-16 temporary:end_date = 2009-01-20 notes = closed to cars during the music festival I don't know how to handle multiple temporary items. Perhaps temporary1, temporary2... -- David J. Lynch djly...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
2009/1/8 David Lynch djly...@gmail.com: I think that temporary and historical prefixes are the best answer to this, possibly with a relation for roads that are different due to the same event, project, etc. I'd keep historical out entirely. I see the point of temporary/intermittent data, and construction type planning data, but I think maybe historical geometries are a little beyond the scope of OSM as it is. Putting in battlefields or other historical notes relating to a location seem fine, but I'm imagining the scenario where someone is trying to trace a 1575 map of London into the DB... followed by a 1675 map... I don't think we really want to encourage that without a database and project which has actually been designed to cope. Don't forget that deleting the data doesn't actually put it beyond reach -- it's still there in the OSM history if someone wants to come and retrieve it -- it's obviously not a good way of storing historical data because it doesn't tell us why it was deleted (deleted in reality, or just in our DB), but it does mean we can be relatively sensible about keeping the main view up to date with things that aren't there any more. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 17:26, David Lynch djly...@gmail.com wrote: I think that temporary and historical prefixes are the best answer to this, possibly with a relation for roads that are different due to the same event, project, etc. Tag things with what they are generally at the current day, and add exceptions as needed. I would envision an example like: highway = unclassified name = Main Street temporary:highway = pedestrian temporary:start_date = 2009-01-16 temporary:end_date = 2009-01-20 notes = closed to cars during the music festival I don't know how to handle multiple temporary items. Perhaps temporary1, temporary2... I like the temporary: prefix proposal. Just for duration period I reccomend using opening hours scheme instead of start_date and end_date, because it solves problems with syntax and multiple intervals nicely. Maybe it would need a little tweaking (it doesn't include year in current syntax). I suggest temporary:period=[opening_hours scheme] Tomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
On 07/01/09 13:02, Hendrik T. Voelker wrote: Hi guys. Peter Miller wrote: This raises the whole question around temporary maps - ie for 50 weeks of the year this is empty desert and for 2 weeks it looks like this. Another example is Glastonbury Festival which for 50 weeks looks like a farm and for 2 weeks is the second largest settlement in Wiltshire. So we have to come up with a way to contain alternating versions with time or other kind of restrictions. This would also allow construction sites to be mapped. I think the OSM database should have the current map of the world. If something is created, then map it. If it then gets torn down 2 weeks later, then delete those nodes/ways from the database. Just because the main slippy map is only re-rendered every week doesn't mean we can't have more instananeous changes in it. Rory signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
No, don't delete them if they may be of historical value (or if they come back again). Tag them with something so they don't show in the current day maps. We already have historical tagged items - things that don't currently exist. (US Civil war battlesites, etc). There is a festival near me that lasts for 1 1/2 weeks each year. Some people start camping there two-three weeks early to get a good spot. The rest of the year there is a couple of permanent roads, with a lot of permanent toilets and not much else, in the middle of some state forest. I would like to map the site next time it occurs, and then leave the temporary ways in a disused state, but in the database so it's easy to turn them on again when they actually exist. 2009/1/8 Rory McCann r...@technomancy.org: I think the OSM database should have the current map of the world. If something is created, then map it. If it then gets torn down 2 weeks later, then delete those nodes/ways from the database. Just because the main slippy map is only re-rendered every week doesn't mean we can't have more instananeous changes in it. Rory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
