Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
Of course it costs money! And Yahoo! is a for profit company, not a charity. So for those wondering why Croatia has such crappy coverage, there's your answer. As for the cause, it's simple : either they haven't covered their initial investment yet, or they don't expect to make more money by providing a better coverage. Yann Le 18 mai 09 à 12:54, Igor Brejc a écrit : > My guess is that imagery costs money, and Yahoo is concentrating > only on the areas which can bring them some cash back. This means > covering more "developed" and commercially/touristic interesting > areas first. We provincials just have to wait :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
Don't worry, the situation for Slovenia is similar... Only the capital Ljubljana is covered with high-res imagery, the rest (including Maribor, the town I live in - 150.000 residents) is low-res. And it has been so for at least a couple of years. My guess is that imagery costs money, and Yahoo is concentrating only on the areas which can bring them some cash back. This means covering more "developed" and commercially/touristic interesting areas first. We provincials just have to wait :) Igor On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:28 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Pecs ih Hungay is in high-res: > http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.074824&lon=18.226571&zoom=17 > > > Kaposvar; > http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.36273&lon=17.796989&zoom=15 > > I didn't all towns in Hungary but Pecs is a bit bigger that Osijek, > and Kaposvar is much smaller that Osijek in Croatia. > > Do Hungarians have some special treatment? ;) > > Any special reason why Yahoo would pay for to get areal photography > for small towns and villages in Hungary and not for other countries? > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Colin Marquardt wrote: > 2009/5/17 Valent Turkovic : >> That is why we are dependent on Yahoo to provide maps and that is why >> some of them are looking at google maps even if they shouldn't :( > > That sounds pretty scary. How about... just *going* there? That was > the idea all along. > (For quite some months I was the only guy who had done something on > Cres, and I just collected the data myself back then, with a cheap GPS > logger.) > > Cheers > Colin > I'm doing my best to spread OSM love :) Take look at Osijek (eastern part of Croatia) not and rewind 12 months back, you will see a huge difference. Also look at Zagreb, the guys in Zagreb really did a marvelous job on celaning out TONS of errors. The ball got rolling and it wont stop, but we will take any help we can get - and that incluedes better yahoo images. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
On May 17, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > They have a price list on their pages, giving away maps is out of them Don't assume that. In economics, particularly the field of Price Theory, there's this thing called Price Differentiation. That's where a seller will charge one buyer one price, and another buyer another price. It's *quite* possible that there is an unadvertised price for non-profits. OpenStreetMap is a non-profit. Don't assume that they're going to charge you the same price as a profit-making entity. Ask. Always ask. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
2009/5/17 Valent Turkovic : > That is why we are dependent on Yahoo to provide maps and that is why > some of them are looking at google maps even if they shouldn't :( That sounds pretty scary. How about... just *going* there? That was the idea all along. (For quite some months I was the only guy who had done something on Cres, and I just collected the data myself back then, with a cheap GPS logger.) Cheers Colin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Russ Nelson wrote: > > On May 16, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: > >> El Sábado, 16 de Mayo de 2009, Valent Turkovic escribió: >>> >>> We really need higher resolution images in order to make better >>> openstreetmaps for Croatia. >> >> I encourage you to talk with Croatia's "State Geodetic Administration" >> (www.dgu.hr) . They should have both maps and aerial images, and >> asking them >> for permission won't hurt. > > Yes, you should always ask such an entity. Chances are pretty good > that they already have aerial imagery and geodata. Different > government entities have different policies. The US Government has > the principle that it cannot claim copyright on data produced at > taxpayer expense, so everything it does is public domain. Some state > governments feel the same way. Others are wiling to share, but only > within a closed group (like the New York State GIS Consortium -- which > I liken to the Roach Motel of geodata: data checks in, but it never > checks out). The only way to find out is to ask. And if they try to > claim copyright, you could point out that the US Government provides > all its information freely. Whether they like the USG or not, that's > a reason to do better than them (us). > They have a price list on their pages, giving away maps is out of the question for them ;( That is why we are dependent on Yahoo to provide maps and that is why some of them are looking at google maps even if they shouldn't :( Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
In article <64b14b300905161628m79fae8bdxfc2844b7e24e...@mail.gmail.com> valent.turko...@gmail.com writes: >Any special reason why Yahoo would pay for to get areal photography >for small towns and villages in Hungary and not for other countries? My speculation is they have a contract to get copies of non-exclusive arial imagery done for other customers. So coverage depends on what others are willing to pay for. Most big cities have such customers, small towns are less likely to have anyone willing to pay enough to make doing it worthwhile. (Also, frequency of updates will be random.) -- Blars Blarson blar...@scd.debian.net With Microsoft, failure is not an option. It is a standard feature. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
On May 16, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: > El Sábado, 16 de Mayo de 2009, Valent Turkovic escribió: >> >> We really need higher resolution images in order to make better >> openstreetmaps for Croatia. > > I encourage you to talk with Croatia's "State Geodetic Administration" > (www.dgu.hr) . They should have both maps and aerial images, and > asking them > for permission won't hurt. Yes, you should always ask such an entity. Chances are pretty good that they already have aerial imagery and geodata. Different government entities have different policies. The US Government has the principle that it cannot claim copyright on data produced at taxpayer expense, so everything it does is public domain. Some state governments feel the same way. Others are wiling to share, but only within a closed group (like the New York State GIS Consortium -- which I liken to the Roach Motel of geodata: data checks in, but it never checks out). The only way to find out is to ask. And if they try to claim copyright, you could point out that the US Government provides all its information freely. Whether they like the USG or not, that's a reason to do better than them (us). -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
El Domingo, 17 de Mayo de 2009, Valent Turkovic escribió: > They have money to do it, I guess money is no problem for a company like > Yahoo. Am I wrong? Money is *always* a problem for *any* company. -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega Time is a great healer. Unless it's a rash, then you're better off with ointment. -- Holly (ship's computer), Red Dwarf, 1988 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:50 AM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: > 2009/5/17 Valent Turkovic : >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM, andrzej zaborowski >> wrote: >>> 2009/5/16 Valent Turkovic : I'm living in Osijek in eastern part of Croatia, a town with approximately 100,000 people. And if you look Osijek on Yahoo satellite view you will see it really bad low resolution: http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=45.551444&lon=18.69127&zoom=14 I found only two towns in Croatia that have a high resolution images; Zagreb (capital of Croatia) and Rijeka. For comparison I looked at Hungary and similar sized towns to Osijek I was surprised that they all have high resolution images, and not only towns but also almost all villages I looked at were in high resolution. >>> >>> According to >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage >>> only Budapest is covered with high resolution pictures in .hu, the >>> page might need updating (you might want to add Rijeka also), but >>> generally only small villages that are close to a big, or for other >>> reasons important, city are available in high resolution. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >> >> >> Pecs ih Hungay is in high-res: >> http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.074824&lon=18.226571&zoom=17 >> >> >> Kaposvar; >> http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.36273&lon=17.796989&zoom=15 >> >> I didn't all towns in Hungary but Pecs is a bit bigger that Osijek, >> and Kaposvar is much smaller that Osijek in Croatia. >> >> Do Hungarians have some special treatment? ;) >> >> Any special reason why Yahoo would pay for to get areal photography >> for small towns and villages in Hungary and not for other countries? > > They have a delicious Gulasch :) > > Thanks for updating the wiki > I knew it! ;) Ah, too bad that yahoo doesn't have as high resolution images as google :( I know few mappers in Croatia who are tempted to use Google maps for mapping, and if Yahoo had better maps they could use them with no problems... Does anybody have some Yahoo insight info - will they get higher resolution images? They have money to do it, I guess money is no problem for a company like Yahoo. Am I wrong? -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
2009/5/17 Valent Turkovic : > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: >> 2009/5/16 Valent Turkovic : >>> I'm living in Osijek in eastern part of Croatia, a town with >>> approximately 100,000 people. And if you look Osijek on Yahoo >>> satellite view you will see it really bad low resolution: >>> http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=45.551444&lon=18.69127&zoom=14 >>> >>> I found only two towns in Croatia that have a high resolution images; >>> Zagreb (capital of Croatia) and Rijeka. >>> >>> For comparison I looked at Hungary and similar sized towns to Osijek I >>> was surprised that they all have high resolution images, and not only >>> towns but also almost all villages I looked at were in high >>> resolution. >> >> According to >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage >> only Budapest is covered with high resolution pictures in .hu, the >> page might need updating (you might want to add Rijeka also), but >> generally only small villages that are close to a big, or for other >> reasons important, city are available in high resolution. >> >> Cheers >> > > > Pecs ih Hungay is in high-res: > http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.074824&lon=18.226571&zoom=17 > > > Kaposvar; > http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.36273&lon=17.796989&zoom=15 > > I didn't all towns in Hungary but Pecs is a bit bigger that Osijek, > and Kaposvar is much smaller that Osijek in Croatia. > > Do Hungarians have some special treatment? ;) > > Any special reason why Yahoo would pay for to get areal photography > for small towns and villages in Hungary and not for other countries? They have a delicious Gulasch :) Thanks for updating the wiki ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: > 2009/5/16 Valent Turkovic : >> I'm living in Osijek in eastern part of Croatia, a town with >> approximately 100,000 people. And if you look Osijek on Yahoo >> satellite view you will see it really bad low resolution: >> http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=45.551444&lon=18.69127&zoom=14 >> >> I found only two towns in Croatia that have a high resolution images; >> Zagreb (capital of Croatia) and Rijeka. >> >> For comparison I looked at Hungary and similar sized towns to Osijek I >> was surprised that they all have high resolution images, and not only >> towns but also almost all villages I looked at were in high >> resolution. > > According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage > only Budapest is covered with high resolution pictures in .hu, the > page might need updating (you might want to add Rijeka also), but > generally only small villages that are close to a big, or for other > reasons important, city are available in high resolution. > > Cheers > I updated Croatian and Hungarian coverage wiki pages. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: > 2009/5/16 Valent Turkovic : >> I'm living in Osijek in eastern part of Croatia, a town with >> approximately 100,000 people. And if you look Osijek on Yahoo >> satellite view you will see it really bad low resolution: >> http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=45.551444&lon=18.69127&zoom=14 >> >> I found only two towns in Croatia that have a high resolution images; >> Zagreb (capital of Croatia) and Rijeka. >> >> For comparison I looked at Hungary and similar sized towns to Osijek I >> was surprised that they all have high resolution images, and not only >> towns but also almost all villages I looked at were in high >> resolution. > > According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage > only Budapest is covered with high resolution pictures in .hu, the > page might need updating (you might want to add Rijeka also), but > generally only small villages that are close to a big, or for other > reasons important, city are available in high resolution. > > Cheers > Pecs ih Hungay is in high-res: http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.074824&lon=18.226571&zoom=17 Kaposvar; http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=46.36273&lon=17.796989&zoom=15 I didn't all towns in Hungary but Pecs is a bit bigger that Osijek, and Kaposvar is much smaller that Osijek in Croatia. Do Hungarians have some special treatment? ;) Any special reason why Yahoo would pay for to get areal photography for small towns and villages in Hungary and not for other countries? -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
2009/5/16 Valent Turkovic : > I'm living in Osijek in eastern part of Croatia, a town with > approximately 100,000 people. And if you look Osijek on Yahoo > satellite view you will see it really bad low resolution: > http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=45.551444&lon=18.69127&zoom=14 > > I found only two towns in Croatia that have a high resolution images; > Zagreb (capital of Croatia) and Rijeka. > > For comparison I looked at Hungary and similar sized towns to Osijek I > was surprised that they all have high resolution images, and not only > towns but also almost all villages I looked at were in high > resolution. According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage only Budapest is covered with high resolution pictures in .hu, the page might need updating (you might want to add Rijeka also), but generally only small villages that are close to a big, or for other reasons important, city are available in high resolution. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
El Sábado, 16 de Mayo de 2009, Valent Turkovic escribió: > My reasoning was that the images are already available to yahoo but > that they don't enable it for whole planet, and that only urban areas > have enabled high-resolution images. How do you come to the conclusion that Y! has already aerial imagery for the whole planet? Y! isn't a business based on cartography, you know. They have to purchase the images in bulk just as everyone else. > How come that Hungary has such detailed high resolution images? Did > Hungarian government pay loads of money to Yahoo? No. Y! paid loads of money to GeoEye and I-Cubed. -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega http://ivan.sanchezortega.es Proudly running Debian Linux with 2.6.29-1-amd64 kernel, KDE 3.5.10, and PHP 5.2.9-2 generating this signature. Uptime: 20:52:43 up 6 days, 4:51, 5 users, load average: 2.92, 2.71, 2.57 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
2009/5/16 Iván Sánchez Ortega : > El Sábado, 16 de Mayo de 2009, Valent Turkovic escribió: >> So how to persuade Yahoo to refresh satellite images of Croatia in >> high resolution? > > Money. Piles and piles of money. > >> We really need higher resolution images in order to make better >> openstreetmaps for Croatia. > > I encourage you to talk with Croatia's "State Geodetic Administration" > (www.dgu.hr) . They should have both maps and aerial images, and asking them > for permission won't hurt. > > Cheers, > -- > -- > Iván Sánchez Ortega > > Mi ordenador me gana jugando al ajedrez pero yo le gano boxeando. > My reasoning was that the images are already available to yahoo but that they don't enable it for whole planet, and that only urban areas have enabled high-resolution images. If I'm right then the cost to enable high-resolution images are minimal. But it the images aren't available and Yahoo needs to capture them first then there is a lot of cost involved, and my request is foolish without bags of money ;) Can somebody please clarify if it is possible to expect high resolution satellite Croatian images from Yahoo for OpenStreetMap? We are volunteers so obviously we have no money to give to Yahoo for making new satellite images. How come that Hungary has such detailed high resolution images? Did Hungarian government pay loads of money to Yahoo? -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo has very bad resolution images of Croatia, why?
El Sábado, 16 de Mayo de 2009, Valent Turkovic escribió: > So how to persuade Yahoo to refresh satellite images of Croatia in > high resolution? Money. Piles and piles of money. > We really need higher resolution images in order to make better > openstreetmaps for Croatia. I encourage you to talk with Croatia's "State Geodetic Administration" (www.dgu.hr) . They should have both maps and aerial images, and asking them for permission won't hurt. Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega Mi ordenador me gana jugando al ajedrez pero yo le gano boxeando. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
