Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
On Saturday 05 January 2008 16:08:40 Karl Newman wrote: > On Jan 5, 2008 2:24 AM, Karl Eichwalder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Am I btw correct in thinking that with the new three-layered way of > > >> tagging things (nodes-ways-relations) that it's best to have split > > >> ways on every node where another way meets it? So, instead of one big > > >> way long as I used to tag things, now a separate way between every > > >> crossroad? > > > > > > I hope that's not being encouraged. Ways should not be split just > > > because there's an intersection. Ways should be split only when the > > > properties of the way change (i.e., speed limit changes, or way goes > > > over a bridge, etc.). Having lots of little streets is almost like > > > having segments again. It's not very efficient. > > > > It depends. If you agree to split streets because of bridges or > > speed limit changes, you should also allow splitting because of > > routes. Take into account that speed limits are often useful for > > fuel powered vehicles. > > Splitting ways for a route seems to be necessary. I was primarily > objecting to splitting the way at every intersection, for no other > reason than it's an intersection. But this trend of splitting ways is > troubling. In the degenerate case, ways become what segments were. > Split ways are much harder to maintain than one long way. Maybe we > should consider a method of tagging sub-sections of a way (i.e., this > route is part of that way from node A to node B), although I know that > has its own problems. Would it not rather make sense to group these separate ways (which are actually part of the same physical road, but different 'routes') with a relation such as http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Collected_Ways. Admitedly, this is almost paving the way for a repeat of the segment/way scenario with a way/relation scenario but I don't think that it's that bad; a way can belong to many relations. This would make requesting a 'road' from the database easy, just get all ways which belong to the 'road' relation; or if you want a bus route, just request that relation. This would avoid the maintenance headache since any properties which belong to the whole 'road' could sit in the 'road' relation and so you wouldn't have to keep all the separate ways in sync. Regards, Matt Williams ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
On Jan 5, 2008 2:24 AM, Karl Eichwalder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Am I btw correct in thinking that with the new three-layered way of > >> tagging things (nodes-ways-relations) that it's best to have split ways > >> on every node where another way meets it? So, instead of one big way > >> long as I used to tag things, now a separate way between every > >> crossroad? > > > I hope that's not being encouraged. Ways should not be split just > > because there's an intersection. Ways should be split only when the > > properties of the way change (i.e., speed limit changes, or way goes > > over a bridge, etc.). Having lots of little streets is almost like > > having segments again. It's not very efficient. > > It depends. If you agree to split streets because of bridges or > speed limit changes, you should also allow splitting because of > routes. Take into account that speed limits are often useful for > fuel powered vehicles. Splitting ways for a route seems to be necessary. I was primarily objecting to splitting the way at every intersection, for no other reason than it's an intersection. But this trend of splitting ways is troubling. In the degenerate case, ways become what segments were. Split ways are much harder to maintain than one long way. Maybe we should consider a method of tagging sub-sections of a way (i.e., this route is part of that way from node A to node B), although I know that has its own problems. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
>> Am I btw correct in thinking that with the new three-layered way of >> tagging things (nodes-ways-relations) that it's best to have split ways >> on every node where another way meets it? So, instead of one big way >> long as I used to tag things, now a separate way between every >> crossroad? > I hope that's not being encouraged. Ways should not be split just > because there's an intersection. Ways should be split only when the > properties of the way change (i.e., speed limit changes, or way goes > over a bridge, etc.). Having lots of little streets is almost like > having segments again. It's not very efficient. It depends. If you agree to split streets because of bridges or speed limit changes, you should also allow splitting because of routes. Take into account that speed limits are often useful for fuel powered vehicles. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
Ben Laenen wrote: > On Wednesday 02 January 2008, Karl Newman wrote: > >> On Jan 2, 2008 6:20 AM, Ben Laenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Alex S. wrote: >>> Maning Sambale wrote: > But no option for selection one or series of segments in way? > Using josm 486 version. > There are no more segments as of API v0.5. You reuse nodes, instead. >>> Am I btw correct in thinking that with the new three-layered way of >>> tagging things (nodes-ways-relations) that it's best to have split >>> ways on every node where another way meets it? So, instead of one >>> big way long as I used to tag things, now a separate way between >>> every crossroad? >>> >>> Ben >>> >> I hope that's not being encouraged. Ways should not be split just >> because there's an intersection. Ways should be split only when the >> properties of the way change (i.e., speed limit changes, or way goes >> over a bridge, etc.). Having lots of little streets is almost like >> having segments again. It's not very efficient. >> >> Karl >> > > But when only part of a road belong to a specific route, you need to > split it up again to make that part belong to the relation. I guess > it's not needed for all roads, but when adding bus routes, cycle routes > and maybe what else there is to add, the effect would be that the roads > would have to be split up... > > (On the same note, I find it quite easy to mess up relations by joining > different roads again into one at the moment :-) ) > Hehe, I just wrote a message about that in another thread. I was wondering about that for a while now. Polyglot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
On Wednesday 02 January 2008, Karl Newman wrote: > On Jan 2, 2008 6:20 AM, Ben Laenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Alex S. wrote: > > > Maning Sambale wrote: > > > > But no option for selection one or series of segments in way? > > > > Using josm 486 version. > > > > > > There are no more segments as of API v0.5. You reuse nodes, > > > instead. > > > > Am I btw correct in thinking that with the new three-layered way of > > tagging things (nodes-ways-relations) that it's best to have split > > ways on every node where another way meets it? So, instead of one > > big way long as I used to tag things, now a separate way between > > every crossroad? > > > > Ben > > I hope that's not being encouraged. Ways should not be split just > because there's an intersection. Ways should be split only when the > properties of the way change (i.e., speed limit changes, or way goes > over a bridge, etc.). Having lots of little streets is almost like > having segments again. It's not very efficient. > > Karl But when only part of a road belong to a specific route, you need to split it up again to make that part belong to the relation. I guess it's not needed for all roads, but when adding bus routes, cycle routes and maybe what else there is to add, the effect would be that the roads would have to be split up... (On the same note, I find it quite easy to mess up relations by joining different roads again into one at the moment :-) ) Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
On Jan 2, 2008 6:20 AM, Ben Laenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Alex S. wrote: > > Maning Sambale wrote: > > > But no option for selection one or series of segments in way? > > > Using josm 486 version. > > > > There are no more segments as of API v0.5. You reuse nodes, instead. > > > Am I btw correct in thinking that with the new three-layered way of > tagging things (nodes-ways-relations) that it's best to have split ways > on every node where another way meets it? So, instead of one big way > long as I used to tag things, now a separate way between every > crossroad? > > Ben I hope that's not being encouraged. Ways should not be split just because there's an intersection. Ways should be split only when the properties of the way change (i.e., speed limit changes, or way goes over a bridge, etc.). Having lots of little streets is almost like having segments again. It's not very efficient. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Alex S. wrote: > Maning Sambale wrote: > > But no option for selection one or series of segments in way? > > Using josm 486 version. > > There are no more segments as of API v0.5. You reuse nodes, instead. Am I btw correct in thinking that with the new three-layered way of tagging things (nodes-ways-relations) that it's best to have split ways on every node where another way meets it? So, instead of one big way long as I used to tag things, now a separate way between every crossroad? Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] re-using segments
Maning Sambale wrote: > But no option for selection one or series of segments in way? > Using josm 486 version. There are no more segments as of API v0.5. You reuse nodes, instead. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
