[talk-au] Re campsites
Greetings all. I think toilets and presence of drinking water should be separate pieces of information easily obvious to any user. While all campsites with drinking water will have toilets, the reverse is often not true in NSW. I was at one last weekend - fairly large and popular ( room for 30 or 40 tents and vans), within 2 hours drive from sydney, and it had no water except for unreliable tank water. ( plenty last weekend lol). http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/Dharug-National-Park/Mill-Creek-campground/camping This information is of interest to cycle tourists particularly, who need to manage water supplies quite carefully. It is depressing to get to the campsite only to realise you have to cycle another 10ks to get water. So I would suggest the second tier be basic plus toilets without an assumption about water. I do realise cycle tourists are only a small user group and will probably use other more detailed resources though. Cheers Adrian Sent from my iPhone On 3 May 2015, at 10:02 pm, talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to talk-au@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-au digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: camp sites (Ian Sergeant) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 17:43:11 +1000 From: Ian Sergeant inas66+...@gmail.com To: Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com Cc: OSM - Talk-au talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] camp sites Message-ID: CALDa4Y+PKFmM7V+gZDb_aCxgwgLYiUCs24NDcGpTYsL=fey...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 3 May 2015 at 15:27, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever way it is cut there is a 'responsiblity', and I'd rather see the 'rules' and have the mapper make the choice from local knowledge rather than pass it to some remote person who can only judge it from a yes/no answer. I'm in also in favour of subjective decisions, when we need a subjective decision, to be made close to the source. However, there are some tags that simply aim to group objective facts by applying a ruleset to them. From the description this looks like one of those cases. I look to see what amenity a campsite has, look up the proposal, and decide on a category to assign it to. I can choose to list the amenities too if I want. People might misinterpret the ruleset, and meanwhile, we are losing hard data about the amenities. Is there supposed to be a subjective step that I'm missing? That is you look at all the amenity, and make a judgement call on the category? Ian. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20150503/5e6bbae4/attachment-0001.html -- Subject: Digest Footer ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 95, Issue 3 ** ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns- I made Alice Springs a city.
I agree we need to think about the map, not the rules. look at the first map you see when you type OSM into google. Its a map of europe. It shows London, prague, and warsaw but not paris or berlin. Lisbon but not madrid, budapest but not rome. And here, at a slightly different zoom level we get Sydney, Melbourne, Albury and Cooma but not the nations capital - canberra. In fact, Queenbeyan appears before CAnberra. I've just noticed that Queenbeyan also appears before Alice Springs, for goodness sake. In my opinion, if the guidelines generate these counter intuitive maps , then the guidelines are wrong. I have made Alice Springs a city, but feel free to change it back if this violates some rule. We are map makers, not programmers, which means we interpret the physical world through a cultural lense to make a document that helps others. Embrace subjectivity. The number of people living in an area is only one reason a settlement should show up on a map. I would argue one of the lesser reasons, unless the purpoe of that map is to map population density. cheers, adrian. From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13 To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:00:04 + Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to talk-au@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-au digest... Today's Topics: 1. (Paul HAYDON) 2. Re: cities changed to towns (Steve Bennett) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:37:43 +1100 From: Paul HAYDON cadmana...@live.com.au To: Talk-AU OSM talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns Message-ID: snt002-w16383afc8c960153517deea8c...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi everyone, Firstly, a qualification:I've not read the Wiki on this subject, so this is simply my opinion without the support of guidelines/rules/etc. I believe, having authored/compiled some detail Magellan maps for eXplorist GPSrs this year, that more important than guidelines or rules that are documented, there needs to be a hierarchy in the data. Obviously, a city in Europe will be much larger than one in Australia, and similarly, ours will be much larger than those in more remote countries. And the size differs, not only in population, but also in geographical area (since population densities also vary). For example, let me just describe the east coast of N.S.W., centred on Sydney: I reckon Sydney, Newcastle, and Wollongong are no-brainers - they're cities. But also, Gosford and Wyong on the Central Coast should be classified the same. Now, while I'm sure such places as Parramatta are also cities (I've not verified this, but I'm pretty sure), from a mapping perspective, Sydney is probably all that is needed. So, on a broad view, you will see Sydney, with Newcastle to the north, and Wollongong to the South, as well as Gosford/Wyong midway between Sydney Newcastle. The next level should then be those centres within the metropolitan areas which warrant attention: in Sydney, such places as Strathfield, Parramatta, Penrith, Chatswood, Hornsby, Hurstville Sutherland (plus, I'm sure there are others). IMHO, keeping sight of the end-use (i.e. a map) is more important than strictly applying a rule based purely on numbers (although, when in doubt, these can be helpful). So places like Parramatta might not be classified as cities when in fact they are, while others in more remote parts of our country might be classified, even though they might not be cities. Any thoughts? Cheers,Paul. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20121211/1c467a61/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:56:37 +1100 From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com To: Alex Sims a...@softgrow.com Cc: talk-au talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns Message-ID: CA+z=q=uUgqFsEr+0_pxv8vtj526oEL9PayPKbe=chkmp4mh...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I would want place=city to refer to an urban populated area of at least 100,000 people as per http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Values I've taken to fixing errors from Geofabrik OSMI and have changed places to match the schema above. Whilst I find hamlet village grate on me as
Re: [talk-au] tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up.
Hi, adrian here, yeah don't assume no rpelies means no support - Ive just been waiting for the its time to vote email. Think that the idea for extending tracktype is great. Think that the argument to use is that if OSM wants to be considered global then it is just common sense that there must be a visual and electronic indication that a major road is unsealed or requires a specialised vehicle - there are many places in the world where this is the case. And I think there is nothing to be feared in subjectivity - all mapping is subjective, in the end. Otheriwise we would tag a road with width, surface,colour, construction method, traffic flow, traffic destination, speedlimit etc and ask the renderer to deduce that it is a primary or secondary road. This process has been formalised in the case of most roads by a governemnet agency - but it is still subjective - we are just all so used to it that it seems objective. Subjective information from a local oe experienced traveller - is invaluable and should be embraced - not discouraged. That's why guide books and sketch maps are still widely used in specialist applications - eg bushwalking, skiing, rockclimbing etc. So roll on election day.. Cheers. From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 65, Issue 20 To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:00:04 + Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to talk-au@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-au digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up. (Michael Kr?mer) 2. Re: tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up. (Ian Steer) 3. Re: tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up. (Andrew Harvey) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:49:17 +0100 From: Michael Kr?mer ohr...@gmail.com To: Talk-AU OSM talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up. Message-ID: CADuOafUiz4=7qa-c0e++lw1zcs-ppghawtvwm2eygxplsn_...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, Well, I'm one of those European countries with almost no unpaved roads - and therefore also think they should be rendered differently. A driver encountering an unpaved road here is usually quite confused if that's really an official road... But looking at some of the older discussions around this (e.g. [1] or [2]) I wouldn't really expect any change to the default rendering anywhere soon. So I wonder if anyone ever considered to provide an own map rendering taking the surface/smoothness/4wd_only into account? As the default rendering doesn't really match the traditional coloring scheme in Germany there's a special German style available ([3]). But I assume the problem is to have enough ressources for this... I didn't entirely follow this thread so I hope this isn't something which came up earlier and which I have missed. Michael - [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2011-June/022789.html [2] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2011-January/055961.html [3] http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=10lat=52.51448lon=13.40603layers=B000TF -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20121113/98cc87a0/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:29:26 +0800 From: Ian Steer ianst...@iinet.net.au To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up. Message-ID: 005101cdc181$6019fbf0$204df3d0$@net.au Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been following this topic on a casual basis (ie I don't feel passionately about it), but I think that what you have written sounds fine. I guess that you will hear from people that feel passionately against your views, but those that think that what you have written makes sense might form the silent majority. Don't give up - there will always be views at odds with your own. Maybe all the others that think the proposal makes sense should speak up too ! regards Ian - Message: 1 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:01:38 +1030 From: David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net To: Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com Cc: OSM Australian Talk List talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up. Message-ID:
[talk-au] Question about relations
Greetings all. I usually confine my mapping to bush tracks and cycle paths as this is what I am most interested in and is often not available from other sources. With the recent devastation of the base map I am remapping some of my local area, and rapidly realising how little I really understand, so forgive this basic question. I also find the wiki very hard to practically understand as it assumes a level of knowledge that is beyond me. I am interested in mapping/remapping the walking route the great north walk, which is an established relation. My specific question is, when the route passes down only part of a way, say just a few blocks of a longer street, how do you assign the relation to just a few internodes. Is it necessary to split the ways at the nodes and then just assign the relation to the segments between, or is it necessary to create a new way over the top which is just the walking route, or is there some method that is simpler that I have failed to appreciate. I am only able to use the potlach editor. Thanks, and regards, adrian. From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 61, Issue 32 To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 06:05:00 +0100 Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to talk-au@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-au digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: LTUAE (Ian Sergeant) 2. Re: LTUAE (Michael Hampson) 3. Re: Establishing Priorities on the Central Coast (Michael Hampson) 4. Re: LTUAE (Ian Sergeant) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:18:12 +1000 From: Ian Sergeant inas66+...@gmail.com To: jink...@bigpond.net.au Cc: talk-au talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] LTUAE Message-ID: calda4ykrysq4m3uewjmty6p8wlqznbvkjsunttmvea-ddfp...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 But for metroad 10 for example, there were 2 x relations for metroad ten. I expected they were for north and south bound routes as that is the way they appeared to be listed in some other areas I checked so that is what I have done. Put one relation for north and the other for south. If that's not right let me know and I will fix. Not sure how a routing relation works anyway. For the Sydney metroads I have added directional route relations, that use two directional relations for each metroad. This allows the connectivity of the route to be checked quickly during the reconstruction phase, and otherwise does no harm. When we have reached the next stage of maturity we can decide if we want to merge them back into a single route relation with directional elements. So, yes, what you have done is correct. 2. for the road naming where the ref tag for metroad 10 was MR10 I have changed those to network=MR and ref=10. Same for the other roads I have worked on. Not *certain* that is correct though either so if someone could enlighten me would be good thanks That is correct. See the Australian tagging guidelines in the wiki. 3. state highway 29 continues from boundary street along pacific highway and then along delhi road, which makes that small section of the pacific highway sh29 *and* mr1. what should I use to reflect that? It can be part of both route relations. Just my own view on the redaction process. No issue with people who declined the licence agreement. However it was annoying for me to see one of the very first things I used for practice vanish in a puff of smoke. It was just a building outline, a coles supermarket. I named it, put in the opening hours, telephone number, full address details eg addr: city: etc etc. I turned it into a thing of beauty by entering approx 10 odd pieces of information, just for practice and learning. I thought it a bit harsh just because someone traced a building roof everything I added went as well. Tracing the building would have taken less than a minute. I spent 40 minutes researching and entering that extra detail on that single item. Your change sets are still available. You should be able to at least refer to the info you have added. And yes, the loss of data in this way is the hardest. One person just traces from an aerial and then does not agree. Others survey, add cycle facilities, names etc that are lost to OSM. I don't know if it still possible to better use some of this unattached data in the database down the track. Ian -- next part -- An HTML
Re: [talk-au] relations
Thanks, fellas, I had worried that splitting ways would cause trouble with route finding etc as one street would become 2 adjoining streets with the same name. Regards, adrian From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 61, Issue 34 To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:00:07 +0100 Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to talk-au@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-au digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Question about relations (SomeoneElse) 2. Re: Redaction recovery (Leon Kernan) 3. Re: Question about relations (John Henderson) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 07:38:47 +0100 From: SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] Question about relations Message-ID: 500f9477.6050...@mail.atownsend.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Adrian Plaskitt wrote: My specific question is, when the route passes down only part of a way, say just a few blocks of a longer street, how do you assign the relation to just a few internodes. Is it necessary to split the ways at the nodes and then just assign the relation to the segments between, or is it necessary to create a new way over the top which is just the walking route, or is there some method that is simpler that I have failed to appreciate. I'd split the way, like this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/141369518 Here the end of Mandalay Beach Road has been split and the part of the road that belongs to the walking route has been added to the walking route relation ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/400098 in this case). The result looks like this on a map designed to show long distance hiking routes: http://hiking.lonvia.de/en/?zoom=17lat=-35.00144lon=116.53484 Cheers, Andy -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:35:34 +1000 From: Leon Kernan lker...@gmail.com To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] Redaction recovery Message-ID: 18353cab-6f82-4d09-a7f4-5031dfbc3...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Don't worry too much about the Hume, it's almost fixed as far as i can tell. I think I fixed the last issue affecting routing between Melbourne and Sydney tonight. (hopefully) South west sydney is full of broken roads. I'm not too familiar with central Sydney but if a local could take a look, i'm not game to get too far into that mess. If you need a change, Adelaide is also a huge mess. On 24/07/2012, at 8:34 PM, Michael Hampson wrote: Hi Brian, Good have you on board Brian. Take a look at the Hume Hwy and M5 motorway if you get a chance. Both head south west out of Sydney. Regards, Michael On 24/07/2012 8:23 PM, Brian Prangle wrote: Hi All I can give assistance retracing roads from bing concentrating on motorways and primary roads - I've made a start in South Sydney. Let me know if there's anywhere more urgent. I map mostly in Birmingham UK wher we're now pretty complete and are mostly tracing buildings from bing and addressing which is slow tedious work - so this provides a bit of welcome relief. It also reminds me of my visit to Oz 4 years ago - might even revisit some favourite places virtually! Regards Brian ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20120724/5b340688/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:16:01 +1000 From: John Henderson snow...@gmx.com To: Adrian Plaskitt adrianplask...@hotmail.com Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] Question about relations Message-ID: 500f8f21.2090...@gmx.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 25/07/12 16:07, Adrian Plaskitt wrote: Greetings all. I usually confine my mapping to bush tracks and cycle paths as this is what I am most interested in and is often not available from other sources. With the recent devastation of the base map I am remapping some of my
Re: [talk-au] Tagging for unofficial Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie?
Greetings all, occasional mapper, first time poster. Lachlan, I live in Newcastle and cycle commute to Woodrising and have mapped a few bits and pieces around the lake. I personally would like to see your style of cycling routes on OCM but understand the slippery slope argument detailed below that would arise from different interpretations of the same route. For example when I link the Fernleigh track to Green Point the best route for me on my road bike is different to the route I take the kids on which involves a fair bit of footpath riding to avoid traffic hot spots. If you are interested I have been writing some pages for a website with links to maps on bikely, photos and route descriptions. (A project that gives a good excuse to go out cycling). Unfortunately I have not managed to make my webhosting service work, but if you send me an email (adrianplask...@hotmail.com) I will show you what I have done so far - I would appreciate comments and we could swap notes. The newcastle cycleways movement has some maps as well. Ben and Ian, perhaps you or others can help me - With regard to tagging I find that a lot of information gets lost in this process. For example I have mapped some of the minor tracks around Belmont Lagoon that allow you to extend the Fernleigh track south to Swansea without going down the highway. I know which of these paths are suitable a road bike, a mountain bike, hybrid , young kids etc, but this information is lost in my mapping with the tags dirt/gravel/width in Potlach - is there a way of making this more nuanced? I imagine every mapper knows the same things about their tracks, but the reality is (I think) that if you have not visited the area it is impossible to know if a 1m dirt path is strewn with boulders and tree roots excluding hybrids or an easy well formed path for a 6 year old. I have found some MTB tagging guidelines in the wiki but these seem more suited to formal mountain bike parks like perhaps glenrock, and I have not found how to apply them in Potlach. If I downoad one of the other editors will these appear, and will they be renderd on the standard map ? More generally to the forum thanks to all those serious mappers who have contributed so much - I have been reading the posts over the last few months from time to time and have been amazed at the amount of work and passion that have been put into this project - its great. regards adrian From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9 To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:00:06 +0100 Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to talk-au@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-au digest... Today's Topics: 1. Tagging for unofficial Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie? (Lachlan Rogers) 2. Re: Tagging for unofficial Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie? (Ian Sergeant) 3. Re: Tagging for unofficial Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie? (Ben Kelley) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:09:04 +1000 From: Lachlan Rogers lach...@rogers.name To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: [talk-au] Tagging for unofficial Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie? Message-ID: cadht9wb6qwtthzssjmzqfj4-noqvdwr3nmtq6wbafk97kt1...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I've recently moved back to Lake Macquarie after some years in Canberra, and I'm delighted to find that there are more cycle paths around the central coast and Lake Macquarie than I was previously aware of. Unfortunately many of them are either incomplete or disconnected from each other. I am wanting to scout out optimal on-road routes to connect cycle paths into excellent recreational routes. For instance the recently opened Fernleigh (Rail trail) Track ends in Belmont, and just a few kms away there is a great path around Green Point. I want to tag a route (probably as lcn) through the streets of Belmont so that viewers can see how best to join these rides together. To my knowledge there is no official council-endorsed cycle route. I recognise some people may have a philosophical aversion to this, because it is tagging based on usefulness rather than on what is actually on the ground. I feel, however, that we have an opportunity to scout out optimal connections and start using them for cycling now, while we lobby councils to make such routes official. I would choose a tagging scheme along the lines of network=lcn with
