[talk-au] Bulk loading all the Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM - a query from the Australian Bureau of Statistics [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
To the Australian OSM community, The Australian Bureau of Statistics has recent published the first part of a new statistical geography, the Australia Statistical Geography Standard or ASGS for short. The boundaries are based on a new basic spatial unit called a mesh block which have been aggregated to create efficient spatial units for the dissemination and analysis of statistical data. They have been released in advanced of the 2011 Australian census and are fixed for the next 5 years. The attached links and PDF file provide additional information. The ABS Geography section is presently investigating the possibility of loaded the new Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM database. As a starting point, I'd like to start a discussion about how this could be achieved, if it is possible at all. >From the ABS point of view the principle reason for doing this is that an the OSM database would hold a copy of the official version of the boundaries and that this point of truth would be available for all OSM users and downstream distributors. It would therefore become one of the channels by which the ABS distributes the ASGS boundaries and associated coding structures There are three main issues I can see need addressing (and probably a large number of other issues I'm not yet aware of ) 1. Is the OSM database a suitable location for the ASGS The ABS would like to facilitate the use of the new ASGS as much as possible and the OSM database looks to be an efficient mechanism for the distribution of the spatial boundaries and codes. But what does the community think??... 2. Licensing Even though ABS data (including all spatial data) is released under a CC license it does require attribution (Attribution 2.5 Australia CC BY 2.5). How is this license model handled under OSM. Is there a means to associated attribution with particular "layers" within the OSM database? 3. The practicality's of loading load. I note previous posts on loading the ABS Postal Areas and the technical problems involved. What is the most efficient and best way of load a categorising these data within the database? Our preference would be to bulk upload through an FME process. Perhaps this is a question for the imports list? Any Questions for the ABS? Lastly if there are any questions people have on the new ASGS (and the old ASGC) or anything on the definition or application of statistical boundaries I am happy to answer specific queries and contribute to discussions. cheers, Marcus. Marcus Blake marcus.bl...@abs.gov.au Assistant Director Geography Section Australian Bureau of Statistics - Additional Information 2911.0.55.003 - Census of Population and Housing: Outcomes from the 2011 Census Output Geography Discussion Paper, 2011 This publication a good diagram of the ASGS http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/ProductsbyReleaseDate/DB85CD1D52DE042DCA25783E000E0AF8?OpenDocument ABS License details: CC Attribution 2.5 Australia http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/au/deed.en The first volume of the ASGS. This includes all the electronic boundaries in MID/MIF and Shape formats Australian Statistical Geography Standard (ASGS): Volume 1 - Main Structure and Greater Capital City Statistical Areas, July 2011 (cat no. 1270.0.55.001) The ABS Geography website http://www.abs.gov.au/Geography Geography Frequently Asked Questions http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/home/Frequently+Asked+Questions Free publications and statistics available on www.abs.gov.au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Bulk loading all the Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM - a query from the Australian Bureau of Statistics [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Marcus Blake wrote Wed, 23 February, 2011 11:31:50: >From the ABS point of view the principle reason for doing this is that an the >OSM database would hold a copy of the official version of the boundaries and >that this point of truth would be available for all OSM users and downstream >distributors. It would therefore become one of the channels by which the ABS >distributes the ASGS boundaries and associated coding structures Hi Marcus, You may be misunderstanding how OSM works. OSM doesn't hold official, unchanging versions of things. Things get modified all the time. The ABS suburb boundaries have been imported into OSM previously. They were used as a basis for identification of the path of roads and rivers which often tend to run along the boundaries, and in many places were split and joined with those roads and rivers such that subsequent improvements to the roads and rivers have modified the position of the ABS boundaries. This makes it difficult to replace the boundaries in OSM with updated data from ABS. OSM does not have layers. All the objects are joined together according to the real world topology (e.g. roads with paths and railways at level crossings). All of OSM is released under CC-BY-SA which is an attribution license compatible with CC-BY. The attribution includes a link to a list of data providers and contributors on www.openstreetmap.org in which ABS is listed. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors OSM has a web API and a set of community built tools which may be used to handle imports (or write your own tools). However, a lot of care needs to go into identifying and improving the existing data, without either duplicating existing boundary data or removing people's work in edits they have made to features that may be joined to the boundaries. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Bulk loading all the Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM - a query from the Australian Bureau of Statistics [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Marcus Unfortunately OSM has recently forced a change to it's licence agreement to a version where attribution is not required on any copies that are made of OSM data, probably to appease Microsoft and Bing maps who will then be free to charge for these maps, with no attribution at all. Anybody who has used "nearmap" or Government data sources for their mapping therefore cannot agree to the new terms, and all of their data is going to be removed on 1st April 2011. As you can imagine there are a lot of upset mappers, and there are alternative sites being set up where the original licence and data will be retained. There are a number of sites doing this including; http://fosm.org Creating a new "Layer" for your data would be a good move from the point of view of mappers, who could not change this data either deliberately or accidentally, and it would therefore be more reliable. Unfortunately these changes are recent and the alternative sites are still a work in progress, and not yet ready to adapt to new requirements. Having said that, go to http://fosm.org/p2/potlatchFosm.xml, and look at the "Background" drop down menu. It includes a number of options for background layers from a variety of sources. Also try http://www.openstreetmap.org, open up the "edit" tab, and select the checkbox option in the bottom left hand corner of the potlatch window, which then shows background layer options. I think all other editors also have these background options, and there are a number of editors out there. I would suggest to you that you make your data available in a format that is compatible with these other background sources, and host the actual data on your own servers. This would also have the advantage that your data will always be up to the minute if and when changes are made. It would then not take much for the mapping applications to import your data as a layer, and you would not need to chase up the different mapping sites and get them to include your data. It would also be a relativity small step to host your own map viewer, which could include your data as a layer as well as the option of google maps, bing maps, open street map, fosm or whatever as a reference to where the boundary's are relative to roads and creeks or coastlines. I do not know what the API's are, or even where to find them, but the nearmap "http://www.nearmap.com/"; people are active and if they cannot help you then I am sure they can point you in the right direction. Andrew. On 23 February 2011 09:01, Marcus Blake wrote: > To the Australian OSM community, > > The Australian Bureau of Statistics has recent published the first part of > a new statistical geography, the Australia Statistical Geography Standard or > ASGS for short. The boundaries are based on a new basic spatial unit called > a mesh block which have been aggregated to create efficient spatial units > for the dissemination and analysis of statistical data. They have been > released in advanced of the 2011 Australian census and are fixed for the > next 5 years. The attached links and PDF file provide additional > information. > > The ABS Geography section is presently investigating the possibility of > loaded the new Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM > database. > > As a starting point, I'd like to start a discussion about how this could be > achieved, if it is possible at all. > > From the ABS point of view the principle reason for doing this is that an > the OSM database would hold a copy of the official version of the > boundaries and that this point of truth would be available for all OSM users > and downstream distributors. It would therefore become one of the channels > by which the ABS distributes the ASGS boundaries and associated coding > structures > > There are three main issues I can see need addressing (and probably a large > number of other issues I'm not yet aware of ) > * > 1. Is the OSM database a suitable location for the ASGS* > > The ABS would like to facilitate the use of the new ASGS as much as > possible and the OSM database looks to be an efficient mechanism for the > distribution of the spatial boundaries and codes. But what does the > community think??... > * > 2. Licensing* > > Even though ABS data (including all spatial data) is released under a CC > license it does require attribution (Attribution 2.5 Australia CC BY 2.5). > How is this license model handled under OSM. Is there a means to associated > attribution with particular "layers" within the OSM database? > * > 3. The practicality's of loading load.* > > I note previous posts on loading the ABS Postal Areas and the technical > problems involved. What is the most efficient and best way of load a > categorising these data within the database? Our preference would be to bulk > upload through an FME process. Perhaps this is a question for the imports > list? > * > Any Questions for the ABS?* > > Lastly if there are any questions people have on
Re: [talk-au] Bulk loading all the Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM - a query from the Australian Bureau of Statistics [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
On 23 February 2011 11:35, Simon Biber wrote: > of OSM is released under CC-BY-SA which is an attribution license compatible > with CC-BY. The attribution includes a link to a list of data providers and > contributors on www.openstreetmap.org in which ABS is listed. As of April 1st only accounts that agree to the new CTs (contributor terms) will be able to contribute to OSM, while the CTs suggest OSM-F will attribute data donors, there is no such guarantee that down stream users of the data will be required to do the same, so many data sources will possibly be removed from OSM-F's database in the near future, or reverted shortly after importing. CommonMap would possibly be a better fit for the ABS and other such bodies as they operate under a cc-by license and have no plans to change, ever. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Bulk loading all the Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM - a query from the Australian Bureau of Statistics [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
On Wed, 2011-02-23 at 10:38 +0800, Andrew Laughton wrote: > Hi Marcus > > Unfortunately OSM has recently forced a change to it's licence > agreement to a version where attribution is not required on any copies > that are made of OSM data, probably to appease Microsoft and Bing maps > who will then be free to charge for these maps, with no attribution at > all. Unfortunately, as stated by others, this is currently the situation. The powers-that-be dont really follow this email list, so you would probably be better off contacting the OSM-talk list or the OSM legal list. While those in charge may not listen to us little folk, an organisation such ABS might have more pull. Knowing that the project might lose the tracing of some small contributors to forked sites, isnt quite as devastating as knowing government departments will prefer to use CC sites in preference to their OSM site. However another important thing to remember, is that although this major change is happening in just over 5 weeks, the Contributor Terms still havent been finalised. Really your best bet is to contact the legal list or the OSM legal working group, as the best anyone here can offer, is what we've pieced together from what little the foundation and legal team have allowed us mere users to know. David > Anybody who has used "nearmap" or Government data sources for their > mapping therefore cannot agree to the new terms, and all of their data > is going to be removed on 1st April 2011. > > As you can imagine there are a lot of upset mappers, and there are > alternative sites being set up where the original licence and data > will be retained. > There are a number of sites doing this including; > http://fosm.org > > Creating a new "Layer" for your data would be a good move from the > point of view of mappers, who could not change this data either > deliberately or accidentally, and it would therefore be more reliable. > > Unfortunately these changes are recent and the alternative sites are > still a work in progress, and not yet ready to adapt to new > requirements. > > Having said that, go to http://fosm.org/p2/potlatchFosm.xml, and look > at the "Background" drop down menu. > It includes a number of options for background layers from a variety > of sources. > Also try http://www.openstreetmap.org, open up the "edit" tab, and > select the checkbox option in the bottom left hand corner of the > potlatch window, which then shows background layer options. > I think all other editors also have these background options, and > there are a number of editors out there. > > I would suggest to you that you make your data available in a format > that is compatible with these other background sources, and host the > actual data on your own servers. > This would also have the advantage that your data will always be up to > the minute if and when changes are made. > > It would then not take much for the mapping applications to import > your data as a layer, and you would not need to chase up the different > mapping sites and get them to include your data. > > It would also be a relativity small step to host your own map viewer, > which could include your data as a layer as well as the option of > google maps, bing maps, open street map, fosm or whatever as a > reference to where the boundary's are relative to roads and creeks or > coastlines. > > I do not know what the API's are, or even where to find them, but the > nearmap "http://www.nearmap.com/"; people are active and if they cannot > help you then I am sure they can point you in the right direction. > > Andrew. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 February 2011 09:01, Marcus Blake > wrote: > To the Australian OSM community, > > The Australian Bureau of Statistics has recent published the > first part of a new statistical geography, the Australia > Statistical Geography Standard or ASGS for short. The > boundaries are based on a new basic spatial unit called a mesh > block which have been aggregated to create efficient spatial > units for the dissemination and analysis of statistical data. > They have been released in advanced of the 2011 Australian > census and are fixed for the next 5 years. The attached links > and PDF file provide additional information. > > The ABS Geography section is presently investigating the > possibility of loaded the new Australian Statistical Geography > Standard into the OSM database. > > As a starting point, I'd like to start a discussion about how > this could be achieved, if it is possible at all. > > >From the ABS point of view the principle reason for doing > this is that an the OSM database would hold a copy of the > official version of the boundaries and that this point of > truth would be available for all OSM users and downstream >
[talk-au] Fwd: [Aust-NZ] Re: [nzopengis] Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team activation?
FYI -- Forwarded message -- From: Hamish Date: 23 February 2011 12:20 Subject: [Aust-NZ] Re: [nzopengis] Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team activation? To: aust...@lists.osgeo.org By the way, the URL for the active Ushahidi* instance is http://eq.org.nz Zoom in and drag, or click on a hot spot to expand it. [*] http://www.ushahidi.com best, Hamish ___ Aust-NZ mailing list aust...@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/aust-nz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Bulk loading all the Australian Statistical Geography Standard into the OSM - a query from the Australian Bureau of Statistics [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Quoting Andrew Laughton : Anybody who has used "nearmap" or Government data sources for their mapping therefore cannot agree to the new terms, and all of their data is going to be removed on 1st April 2011. Presumably most of the current ABS data will disappear automatically (as a special user account was set up for the original uploading) but what happens if any of these ways are split? For example, if I split a way because part of the way follows a river, the new way will be counted as being created by myself, so if I agree to the terms, would I then need to delete them separately? (or go through all my edits to allow only some of them to be accepted?) Or am I prevented from agreeing to the new terms because I have split ABS ways? Mark P. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
