Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Martijn van Exel]

The note content (a bit obfuscated by the Javascript..) is at 
https://github.com/osmlab/onosm.org/blob/gh-pages/js/site.js#L121-L141 
 

Graeme’s point is a good one though — someone will still need to go in and see 
the note and act on it. So it’s not a complete ‘pipeline’ where a business is 
guaranteed to be added to OSM. 

Still I think it’s reasonable to point folks to that. In the US we have dealt 
with a lot of SEO spam as well, Clifford Snow (cc) has spent a lot of time on 
this topic and may be able to share some insights..

Martijn

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 10:33 PM, Daniel O'Connor  
> wrote:
> 
> Onosm.org generates a structured note.
> 
> Source code at https://github.com/osmlab/onosm.org 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 3:41 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick  > wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 06:51, Martijn van Exel  > wrote:
> You can point businesses to https://www.onosm.org/  
> which gives businesses an easy way to add themselves. It generates a note on 
> OSM, that mappers can then turn into an actual node or whatever OSM type is 
> relevant to add the information to the map in a responsible way.
> Martijn
> 
> Martijn
> 
> With things like that site, & I know Osmand has a similar "report a problem" 
> setting, do you have any idea as to where do they actually get reported to?
> 
> Does this one just generate an OSM Note? & with what explanation?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Daniel O'Connor]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM  wrote:

> Hi, I'm thinking  it might be worth emailing the businesses being
> advertised and telling them that the SEO company that they engaged is
> making edits that they might not want their business associates.
> Tony
>
> > Concur. Be ruthless. These people are akin to nuisance callers and
> > should be publicly flogged.
>

I know its really annoying for us to deal with low quality spammy notes;
but it might be of more value to extend an olive branch to the business -
they've indicated they'd like their business mapped (mistakenly going with
a spammy company); that's practically an invitation to ask them for all of
the details that would be otherwise difficult to get via survey.

If they get pushed towards a novice friendly approach to sharing their
data, that's a better outcome IMO
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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Daniel O'Connor]

Onosm.org generates a structured note.

Source code at https://github.com/osmlab/onosm.org

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 3:41 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 06:51, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> You can point businesses to https://www.onosm.org/ which gives
>> businesses an easy way to add themselves. It generates a note on OSM, that
>> mappers can then turn into an actual node or whatever OSM type is relevant
>> to add the information to the map in a responsible way.
>> Martijn
>>
>
> Martijn
>
> With things like that site, & I know Osmand has a similar "report a
> problem" setting, do you have any idea as to where do they actually get
> reported to?
>
> Does this one just generate an OSM Note? & with what explanation?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 06:51, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> You can point businesses to https://www.onosm.org/ which gives businesses
> an easy way to add themselves. It generates a note on OSM, that mappers can
> then turn into an actual node or whatever OSM type is relevant to add the
> information to the map in a responsible way.
> Martijn
>

Martijn

With things like that site, & I know Osmand has a similar "report a
problem" setting, do you have any idea as to where do they actually get
reported to?

Does this one just generate an OSM Note? & with what explanation?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Question on how to fix this intersection

[Michael Collinson]

+1 to that. Looking at the eastern side imagery again, I'd make a 
general comment that will help elsewhere: There really should be a node 
about where the pedestrian crossing is and pushing the road slightly 
north. This would bring it closer the traffic engineer's intention, 
which is that the Liverpool Road meets the Burwood Road at right angles. 
And in this case, lessen the angle with with the western extension.


Digressing but when playing around with routing software, I noticed that 
a lot of us map in slight oblique side roads and tracks meeting the main 
road at the same angle, whereas if we look closely the actual junction 
is actually at or a closer to a right angle. This has quite an impact 
for the routing algo to work out what instruction to give.


Mike


On 2019-01-31 10:02, Ian Sergeant wrote:

I agree there should be a better way, but I would solve this problem
by bring the road split to the east of the the intersection in this
case.  The road divides on the eastern side of the intersection
anyway.

Then there will be no option but to continue straight.

Ian.

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 09:55, Dion Moult  wrote:

G'day all!

In the intersection of Liverpool road and Burwood road in Burwood, Sydney (see 
attached), if I am travelling in the direction shown by the red arrow, then my 
GPS device should tell me to continue and drive straight at the intersection. 
However, because at that junction, the map splits up Liverpool Road into two 
roads, OSMAnd tells me to turn left there, which is quite confusing.

What is the appropriate way to fix this mapping? Or is it a problem with OSMAnd?


Dion Moult


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Re: [talk-au] Question on how to fix this intersection

[Michael Collinson]

Hi Dion,

I'd say a bit of both.

The junction is topologically correct but looking at the aerial imagery 
and the node that you circled, 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1691043684 , then it could be moved 
very slightly north and a bit more aggressively west to lessen the 
change of direction and better fit the actual physical situation. You 
could also map in the pedestrian crossing and close the gap further.


OSMAnd may also need some tweaking. I helped test a commercial routing 
product and know that these situations are difficult to get right. At 
the most simple, OSMAnd should measure the deviation from directly 
straight on (0 degrees) and assign anything up to, say 8 as "straight 
on", to around 45 degrees as "bear left" and anything more as "turn 
left". The may still not get it right. There are a couple more 
sophisticated things it could do: 1) Note that you are going from/to the 
same road name/classification and dynamically broaden the "straight on" 
angle test or even drop the navigation instruction entirely; 2) look 
ahead to the next node or two and create some kind of smoothed average 
angle, which will again help push the instruction to "straight on".


Mike

On 2019-01-31 09:54, Dion Moult wrote:

G'day all!

In the intersection of Liverpool road and Burwood road in Burwood, Sydney (see 
attached), if I am travelling in the direction shown by the red arrow, then my 
GPS device should tell me to continue and drive straight at the intersection. 
However, because at that junction, the map splits up Liverpool Road into two 
roads, OSMAnd tells me to turn left there, which is quite confusing.

What is the appropriate way to fix this mapping? Or is it a problem with OSMAnd?


Dion Moult



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Re: [talk-au] Question on how to fix this intersection

[Martijn van Exel]

Especially if the street name does not change AND  the road splits into two 
oneway segments of the same name AND the angle of the ’turn’ is very slight, 
the software should figure this out, and I would say this is indeed an OSMAnd 
problem. In any case, the mapping looks correct to me.

Sort of related, we (Telenav map team) have seen cases in other countries where 
the road ‘flip-flops’ between single and divided mapping within a short 
distance[0]. In these cases we often decide to straighten that stretch out, 
making the single segments divided. If you object to this practice, please do 
let me know. We can also make a MapRoulette challenge to identify these cases 
if they exist here, and let you review them.

[0] looking a lot like 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3uzr05drc54vw6/Screen%20Shot%202019-01-30%20at%204.22.23%20PM.png?dl=0
 

 

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 3:54 PM, Dion Moult  wrote:
> 
> G'day all!
> 
> In the intersection of Liverpool road and Burwood road in Burwood, Sydney 
> (see attached), if I am travelling in the direction shown by the red arrow, 
> then my GPS device should tell me to continue and drive straight at the 
> intersection. However, because at that junction, the map splits up Liverpool 
> Road into two roads, OSMAnd tells me to turn left there, which is quite 
> confusing.
> 
> What is the appropriate way to fix this mapping? Or is it a problem with 
> OSMAnd?
> 
> 
> Dion Moult
> 
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Question on how to fix this intersection

[Ian Sergeant]

I agree there should be a better way, but I would solve this problem
by bring the road split to the east of the the intersection in this
case.  The road divides on the eastern side of the intersection
anyway.

Then there will be no option but to continue straight.

Ian.

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 09:55, Dion Moult  wrote:
>
> G'day all!
>
> In the intersection of Liverpool road and Burwood road in Burwood, Sydney 
> (see attached), if I am travelling in the direction shown by the red arrow, 
> then my GPS device should tell me to continue and drive straight at the 
> intersection. However, because at that junction, the map splits up Liverpool 
> Road into two roads, OSMAnd tells me to turn left there, which is quite 
> confusing.
>
> What is the appropriate way to fix this mapping? Or is it a problem with 
> OSMAnd?
>
>
> Dion Moult
>
>
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[talk-au] Question on how to fix this intersection

[Dion Moult]

G'day all!

In the intersection of Liverpool road and Burwood road in Burwood, Sydney (see 
attached), if I am travelling in the direction shown by the red arrow, then my 
GPS device should tell me to continue and drive straight at the intersection. 
However, because at that junction, the map splits up Liverpool Road into two 
roads, OSMAnd tells me to turn left there, which is quite confusing.

What is the appropriate way to fix this mapping? Or is it a problem with OSMAnd?


Dion Moult


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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Martijn van Exel]

You can point businesses to https://www.onosm.org/  
which gives businesses an easy way to add themselves. It generates a note on 
OSM, that mappers can then turn into an actual node or whatever OSM type is 
relevant to add the information to the map in a responsible way.
Martijn

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 1:22 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
> 
> Hi, I'm thinking  it might be worth emailing the businesses being advertised 
> and telling them that the SEO company that they engaged is making edits that 
> they might not want their business associates.
> Tony
> 
>> Concur. Be ruthless. These people are akin to nuisance callers and
>> should be publicly flogged.
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> On 30/1/19 7:22 pm, nwastra wrote:
>>> We seem to be getting a lot of business edits in this form lately  with 
>>> only a name and description tag, often with address details or  just spam 
>>> in the description tag.
>>> As is usual with spam like business edits, they use a throw away  email to 
>>> make the edit and you never get a response from any query.
>>> https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=66761372
>>> I am in favour of deleting them as SEO spam.
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[forster]

Hi, I'm thinking  it might be worth emailing the businesses being  
advertised and telling them that the SEO company that they engaged is  
making edits that they might not want their business associates.

Tony


Concur. Be ruthless. These people are akin to nuisance callers and
should be publicly flogged.

Ian


On 30/1/19 7:22 pm, nwastra wrote:
We seem to be getting a lot of business edits in this form lately   
with only a name and description tag, often with address details or  
 just spam in the description tag.
As is usual with spam like business edits, they use a throw away   
email to make the edit and you never get a response from any query.

https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=66761372
I am in favour of deleting them as SEO spam.


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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Ian Bennett]

Concur. Be ruthless. These people are akin to nuisance callers and should be 
publicly flogged.

Ian


On 30/1/19 7:22 pm, nwastra wrote:
We seem to be getting a lot of business edits in this form lately with only a name and description 
tag, often with address details or just spam in the description tag.
As is usual with spam like business edits, they use a throw away email to make the edit and you 
never get a response from any query.

https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=66761372
I am in favour of deleting them as SEO spam.


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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Andy Townsend]

On 30/01/2019 10:25, Andrew Harvey wrote:
I agree, unless they come to the table to discuss we should block as 
much as possible to limit their abuse of OSM.


On Wed., 30 Jan. 2019, 7:24 pm nwastra  wrote:


...




https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=66761372
I am in favour of deleting them as SEO spam.



Hi,
I'd also press the "report" button on the user account in OSM (and 
mention there that you've already removed the data).  This should alert 
the admins to the spam user and (in case it gets bounced to the DWG for 
data tidying) alert us that you've already done that.


Best Regards,

Andy (from the DWG).


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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Andrew Harvey]

I agree, unless they come to the table to discuss we should block as much
as possible to limit their abuse of OSM.

On Wed., 30 Jan. 2019, 7:24 pm nwastra  We seem to be getting a lot of business edits in this form lately with
> only a name and description tag, often with address details or just spam in
> the description tag.
> As is usual with spam like business edits, they use a throw away email to
> make the edit and you never get a response from any query.
> https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=66761372
> I am in favour of deleting them as SEO spam.
>
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Re: [talk-au] more SEO spam?

[Ben Kelley]

I agree.

 - Ben.

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 19:24, nwastra  wrote:

> We seem to be getting a lot of business edits in this form lately with
> only a name and description tag, often with address details or just spam in
> the description tag.
> As is usual with spam like business edits, they use a throw away email to
> make the edit and you never get a response from any query.
> https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=66761372
> I am in favour of deleting them as SEO spam.
>
>
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[talk-au] more SEO spam?

[nwastra]

We seem to be getting a lot of business edits in this form lately with only a 
name and description tag, often with address details or just spam in the 
description tag.
As is usual with spam like business edits, they use a throw away email to make 
the edit and you never get a response from any query. 
https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=66761372 

I am in favour of deleting them as SEO spam.

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