Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[Warin]

On 14/03/19 16:17, cleary wrote:
As a supporter of OSM and a regular user of NSW public transport, I am 
pleased to see this development.


I have a question in regard to use of TfNSW data in OSM. At the moment 
the list of data sources on the Contributors page in the OSM wiki does 
not include TfNSW data as an approved source. 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#New_South_Wales_Government_data) 
 
If you represent the owners of the data, I presume there is no 
copyright issue with any data you add to OSM.  I am interested in 
using NSW Transport data for (1) sourcing bus stop numbers and (2) 
identifying rural railway stations which continue to offer services as 
distinct from those that are now un-used.  I am unsure of the 
copyright restrictions on TfNSW data.  Is it possible for your branch 
to obtain/grant approval for OSM editors to use TfNSW data and have 
this information added to the Contributors page of the wiki?


Probably a different section. And the government may be in 'caretaker 
mode' so things are unlikely to occur between now and the end of the 
state election.


CC by 4.0 copyright does not let OSM use it... see 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/


If OSM obtains a specific waver then it may be possible to do a bulk 
import of data into OSM using GTFS?


The GTFS stuff is preferable as it avoids human errors (though open to 
software errors) and can be updated very rapidly.


Anyway - welcome to the Au talking list 'hand of God'.







On Thu, 14 Mar 2019, at 8:55 AM, Runarsson, Sigurjon wrote:


Hi all,


My name is Sigurjon and I work for the Transport for NSW (TfNSW) Data 
Services team which is a small but dedicated group which underpin the 
many digital products and projects that form part of TfNSW as a 
whole. The team are responsible for sourcing, managing and providing 
data with an emphasis on quality and efficiency.



The TfNSW Data Services team aim to contribute and help improve 
OpenStreetMap, which we started to use in our products like the TfNSW 
Trip Planner (https://transportnsw.info/trip#/) from the end of 2018, 
through review and updates that are identified as part of their wide 
reaching day-to-day activities, feedback from their extensive network 
of customer/public facing channels, and other TfNSW internal 
stakeholders.



You can find further information on our wiki 
pagehttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfNSW



Please don’t hesitate to contact me 
onsigurjon.runars...@transport.nsw.gov.au 
,https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Maradona11or 
use our group mailbox and another member of the team will endeavour 
to help you:timeta...@transport.nsw.gov.au 





Thanks,


Sigurjon


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confidential information. If you receive this email in error please 
delete it and any attachments and notify the sender immediately by 
reply email. Transport for NSW takes all care to ensure that 
attachments are free from viruses or other defects. Transport for NSW 
assume no liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which 
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Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[cleary]

As a supporter of OSM and a regular user of NSW public transport, I am pleased 
to see this development.

I have a question in regard to use of TfNSW data in OSM. At the moment the list 
of data sources on the Contributors page in the OSM wiki does not include TfNSW 
data as an approved source. 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#New_South_Wales_Government_data)
 If you represent the owners of the data, I presume there is no copyright issue 
with any data you add to OSM. I am interested in using NSW Transport data for 
(1) sourcing bus stop numbers and (2) identifying rural railway stations which 
continue to offer services as distinct from those that are now un-used. I am 
unsure of the copyright restrictions on TfNSW data. Is it possible for your 
branch to obtain/grant approval for OSM editors to use TfNSW data and have this 
information added to the Contributors page of the wiki? 





On Thu, 14 Mar 2019, at 8:55 AM, Runarsson, Sigurjon wrote:
> Hi all,

> 

> My name is Sigurjon and I work for the Transport for NSW (TfNSW) Data 
> Services team which is a small but dedicated group which underpin the many 
> digital products and projects that form part of TfNSW as a whole. The team 
> are responsible for sourcing, managing and providing data with an emphasis on 
> quality and efficiency.

> 

> The TfNSW Data Services team aim to contribute and help improve 
> OpenStreetMap, which we started to use in our products like the TfNSW Trip 
> Planner (https://transportnsw.info/trip#/) from the end of 2018, through 
> review and updates that are identified as part of their wide reaching 
> day-to-day activities, feedback from their extensive network of 
> customer/public facing channels, and other TfNSW internal stakeholders.

> 

> You can find further information on our wiki page 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfNSW

> 

> Please don’t hesitate to contact me on 
> sigurjon.runars...@transport.nsw.gov.au, 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Maradona11 or use our group mailbox and 
> another member of the team will endeavour to help you: 
> timeta...@transport.nsw.gov.au

> 

> 

> Thanks,

> 

> Sigurjon

> 

> This email is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential 
> information. If you receive this email in error please delete it and any 
> attachments and notify the sender immediately by reply email. Transport for 
> NSW takes all care to ensure that attachments are free from viruses or other 
> defects. Transport for NSW assume no liability for any loss, damage or other 
> consequences which may arise from opening or using an attachment.

> P *Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless really 
> necessary.*

> ___
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> 
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Re: [talk-au] Station areas for railway=station

[Andrew Harvey]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 at 11:43, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34891023/ is to be the
> railway=station then it needs to be expanded to include the are of
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16748116
>

That sounds good.


> And https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16748116 needs some corrections!
> The area is not a stop for a train. And it is only part of a
> public_transport=station
>

> Note: don't be too hard on the mappers who added these. OSM is developing
> over time and the OSM definitions of thing can and do change over time so
> past entries may have been correct at the time of entry. On the other hand
> .. we all make errors!
>

Absolutely.
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Re: [talk-au] Station areas for railway=station

[Warin]

On 14/03/19 10:18, Andrew Harvey wrote:

You're right railway=station per the wiki

+1


Railway stations are mapped as an area covering the whole station
(tracks, buildings, platforms, etc.) or a node at the center of
the station from passengers' point of view. This is usually an
unconnected node at the platform area. This node does not have to
be part of a railway track.
If you want to map the station as an area, please consider that
different people describe the station area differently. While
passengers only have the area around the station building and the
platforms in mind, railway staff and railway enthusiasts think of
the whole railway area which begins at the entry signal at one
side and ends at the entry signals at the other side.


So https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34891023/ should be 
railway=station in my opinion, that would cover the whole area and 
encompass all the platforms, buildings, roofs, and tracks which are 
part of Central Station.


I agree the building roof's shouldn't have the name Central Station, 
it should come from the railway=station areas which encompasses them.


That would involve moving all the station tags off 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16748116 and onto the current 
landuse way.


If https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34891023/ is to be the 
railway=station then it needs to be expanded to include the are of 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16748116


And https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16748116 needs some corrections! 
The area is not a stop for a train. And it is only part of a 
public_transport=station


Note: don't be too hard on the mappers who added these. OSM is 
developing over time and the OSM definitions of thing can and do change 
over time so past entries may have been correct at the time of entry. On 
the other hand .. we all make errors!



On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 at 08:31, Thomas Manson > wrote:


Hi,

I am new to Open Street Maps, so I apologise if I miss something
obvious.

I am working with the developers of an app for vision impaired
users that helps then navigate unfamiliar locations, and we are
trying to help them navigate train stations in Australia, and I am
specifically looking at Central Statin in Sydney.

From my reading of the Tag:railway=station notes here
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dstation), it
appears that a station area should include the whole area of the
station. At Central station, this is not the case, and the
platform rooves have been added as standalone features, with no
association with the Central Station. This has resulted in the app
calling these out as additional features in the area, which
confuses our users, as they are not separate features.

I initially tagged each roof with the Name of Central station, but
it was pointed out to me that this is probably incorrect, and I am
happy to remove those names. However, I would like to propose
changing the shape of the feature with tag:railway=station to
include the area that has the platform rooves too. The features
that are the rooves would still be there as individual features.

Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea, or something I
shouldn’t do?



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Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[Andrew Harvey]

Welcome!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 at 08:55, Runarsson, Sigurjon <
sigurjon.runars...@transport.nsw.gov.au> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> My name is Sigurjon and I work for the Transport for NSW (TfNSW) Data
> Services team which is a small but dedicated group which underpin the many
> digital products and projects that form part of TfNSW as a whole. The team
> are responsible for sourcing, managing and providing data with an emphasis
> on quality and efficiency.
>
>
>
> The TfNSW Data Services team aim to contribute and help improve
> OpenStreetMap, which we started to use in our products like the TfNSW Trip
> Planner (https://transportnsw.info/trip#/) from the end of 2018, through
> review and updates that are identified as part of their wide reaching
> day-to-day activities, feedback from their extensive network of
> customer/public facing channels, and other TfNSW internal stakeholders.
>
>
>
> You can find further information on our wiki page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfNSW
>
>
>
> Please don’t hesitate to contact me on
> sigurjon.runars...@transport.nsw.gov.au,
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Maradona11 or use our group mailbox
> and another member of the team will endeavour to help you:
> timeta...@transport.nsw.gov.au
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Sigurjon
>
>
>
> This email is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential
> information. If you receive this email in error please delete it and any
> attachments and notify the sender immediately by reply email. Transport for
> NSW takes all care to ensure that attachments are free from viruses or
> other defects. Transport for NSW assume no liability for any loss, damage
> or other consequences which may arise from opening or using an attachment.
>
> P *Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless really
> necessary.*
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
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Re: [talk-au] Station areas for railway=station

[Andrew Harvey]

You're right railway=station per the wiki

Railway stations are mapped as an area covering the whole station (tracks,
> buildings, platforms, etc.) or a node at the center of the station from
> passengers' point of view. This is usually an unconnected node at the
> platform area. This node does not have to be part of a railway track.
> If you want to map the station as an area, please consider that different
> people describe the station area differently. While passengers only have
> the area around the station building and the platforms in mind, railway
> staff and railway enthusiasts think of the whole railway area which begins
> at the entry signal at one side and ends at the entry signals at the other
> side.


So https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34891023/ should be railway=station in
my opinion, that would cover the whole area and encompass all the
platforms, buildings, roofs, and tracks which are part of Central Station.

I agree the building roof's shouldn't have the name Central Station, it
should come from the railway=station areas which encompasses them.

That would involve moving all the station tags off
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16748116 and onto the current landuse way.


On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 at 08:31, Thomas Manson 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am new to Open Street Maps, so I apologise if I miss something obvious.
>
>
>
> I am working with the developers of an app for vision impaired users that
> helps then navigate unfamiliar locations, and we are trying to help them
> navigate train stations in Australia, and I am specifically looking at
> Central Statin in Sydney.
>
>
>
> From my reading of the Tag:railway=station notes here (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dstation), it appears
> that a station area should include the whole area of the station. At
> Central station, this is not the case, and the platform rooves have been
> added as standalone features, with no association with the Central Station.
> This has resulted in the app calling these out as additional features in
> the area, which confuses our users, as they are not separate features.
>
>
>
> I initially tagged each roof with the Name of Central station, but it was
> pointed out to me that this is probably incorrect, and I am happy to remove
> those names. However, I would like to propose changing the shape of the
> feature with tag:railway=station to include the area that has the platform
> rooves too. The features that are the rooves would still be there as
> individual features.
>
>
>
> Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea, or something I shouldn’t do?
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Thomas Manson
>
>
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[talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[Runarsson, Sigurjon]

Hi all,

My name is Sigurjon and I work for the Transport for NSW (TfNSW) Data Services 
team which is a small but dedicated group which underpin the many digital 
products and projects that form part of TfNSW as a whole. The team are 
responsible for sourcing, managing and providing data with an emphasis on 
quality and efficiency.

The TfNSW Data Services team aim to contribute and help improve OpenStreetMap, 
which we started to use in our products like the TfNSW Trip Planner 
(https://transportnsw.info/trip#/) from the end of 2018, through review and 
updates that are identified as part of their wide reaching day-to-day 
activities, feedback from their extensive network of customer/public facing 
channels, and other TfNSW internal stakeholders.

You can find further information on our wiki page 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfNSW

Please don't hesitate to contact me on 
sigurjon.runars...@transport.nsw.gov.au,
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Maradona11 or use our group mailbox and 
another member of the team will endeavour to help you: 
timeta...@transport.nsw.gov.au


Thanks,

Sigurjon


This email is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential 
information. If you receive this email in error please delete it and any 
attachments and notify the sender immediately by reply email. Transport for NSW 
takes all care to ensure that attachments are free from viruses or other 
defects. Transport for NSW assume no liability for any loss, damage or other 
consequences which may arise from opening or using an attachment.

P Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless really 
necessary.
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[talk-au] Station areas for railway=station

[Thomas Manson]

Hi,

I am new to Open Street Maps, so I apologise if I miss something obvious.

I am working with the developers of an app for vision impaired users that helps 
then navigate unfamiliar locations, and we are trying to help them navigate 
train stations in Australia, and I am specifically looking at Central Statin in 
Sydney.

>From my reading of the Tag:railway=station notes here 
>(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dstation), it appears that a 
>station area should include the whole area of the station. At Central station, 
>this is not the case, and the platform rooves have been added as standalone 
>features, with no association with the Central Station. This has resulted in 
>the app calling these out as additional features in the area, which confuses 
>our users, as they are not separate features.

I initially tagged each roof with the Name of Central station, but it was 
pointed out to me that this is probably incorrect, and I am happy to remove 
those names. However, I would like to propose changing the shape of the feature 
with tag:railway=station to include the area that has the platform rooves too. 
The features that are the rooves would still be there as individual features.

Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea, or something I shouldn’t do?

Regards,
Thomas Manson

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