Re: [talk-au] Adoption of OSM geometry as state mapping base

[Andrew Harvey]

I hope this passes your legal Rob. My takeaway is that your implementation
shouldn't rely on the OSMF's APIs or data downloads being available, so
your operations and use of OSM data would not be impacted if these services
weren't available or were returning unexpected responses.

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 at 09:37, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Hi Rob
>
> Response received from Legal:
>
> " The OSM Terms of Use do not impose any addition restrictions on the use
> of the OpenStreetMap geodatabase beyond the terms of ODbL.
> We do prohibit the emergencies services and anything similarly
> time-sensitive from using OSM Services directly because OSM does not
> guarantee uptime or responsiveness. However, while OSM Services include
> *data distribution*, they do not include the *data itself*. Thus, the
> Department is free to download the planet file and use the data purely
> under the terms of ODbL, but should not rely on the existence or freshness
> of the planet file download."
>
> So you should be fine to go with it, as long as everybody realises that
> OSM is still only updated by volunteers, so could potentially have issues.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 at 10:41, rob potter  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am representing the state transport department Department of Transport
>> and Planning (Victoria, Australia) - OpenStreetMap Wiki
>> 
>>  and
>> we are looking to consume the OSM road & rail networks for our operations.
>>
>> *Lawyers have raised a concern about these conditions, as the road data
>> use is supplied to our emergency services fire and ambulance.  We have not
>> started using the information but we are implementing a system of
>> validation and change detection, then produce an authoritative version for
>> other agency consumption.*
>> *Unlawful and other unauthorized uses include a clause "Operate dangerous
>> businesses such as emergency services or air traffic control, where the use
>> or failure of the Services could lead to death, personal injury or
>> significant property damage;" and "Store data available through the
>> Services in order to evade these Terms (including aiding anyone else in
>> doing so); or"*
>>
>> Please any advice would be greatly appreciated, ultimately we will
>> enhance the overall content of OSM in the Victoria, but really do not want
>> to cause problems later.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rob
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Adoption of OSM geometry as state mapping base

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Hi Rob

Response received from Legal:

" The OSM Terms of Use do not impose any addition restrictions on the use
of the OpenStreetMap geodatabase beyond the terms of ODbL.
We do prohibit the emergencies services and anything similarly
time-sensitive from using OSM Services directly because OSM does not
guarantee uptime or responsiveness. However, while OSM Services include
*data distribution*, they do not include the *data itself*. Thus, the
Department is free to download the planet file and use the data purely
under the terms of ODbL, but should not rely on the existence or freshness
of the planet file download."

So you should be fine to go with it, as long as everybody realises that OSM
is still only updated by volunteers, so could potentially have issues.

Thanks

Graeme


On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 at 10:41, rob potter  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am representing the state transport department Department of Transport
> and Planning (Victoria, Australia) - OpenStreetMap Wiki
> 
>  and
> we are looking to consume the OSM road & rail networks for our operations.
>
> *Lawyers have raised a concern about these conditions, as the road data
> use is supplied to our emergency services fire and ambulance.  We have not
> started using the information but we are implementing a system of
> validation and change detection, then produce an authoritative version for
> other agency consumption.*
> *Unlawful and other unauthorized uses include a clause "Operate dangerous
> businesses such as emergency services or air traffic control, where the use
> or failure of the Services could lead to death, personal injury or
> significant property damage;" and "Store data available through the
> Services in order to evade these Terms (including aiding anyone else in
> doing so); or"*
>
> Please any advice would be greatly appreciated, ultimately we will enhance
> the overall content of OSM in the Victoria, but really do not want to cause
> problems later.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
> ___
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> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[cleary]

I have previously suggested in several posts that we should not rely on the NSW 
Base Map if there is another source of information, primarily because outdated 
information is often not updated in the Base Map.

However, in this instance, I think the Base Map shows the correct name. 

When OSM was initially permitted access to a range of NSW Government sources 
including the Base Map, Imagery, Topographic Map etc, one of the resources was 
the NSW Address Location Service. I understand that this is used for emergency 
services (fire, ambulance, police etc) and there has been an imperative to 
maintain its accuracy. I have found it very useful in instances where there is 
uncertainty over the name of a road. When the Base Map is wrong, the Address 
Location Service shows the correct name.  I'm not sure if there are other ways 
to access it, but I do so by inserting  a housenumber, road name, road type, 
suburb and postcode in a string that confirms if an address is correct or 
provides no output if wrong. If the housenumber is the only incorrect data, it 
may return a result with a nearby housenumber.  When I inserted "Bridle" and 
"Track" no output was produced, indicating this was an incorrect address. When 
I inserted "The Bridle" and "Track", I received a positive output indicating 
that "The Bridle Track" is the officially correct name.

If anyone is interested, here are two URLs that I used in this exercise:

https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/services/public/Address_Location?houseNumber=4176=Bridle=Track=Bruinbun=2795=EPSG%3A4326

https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/services/public/Address_Location?houseNumber=4176=The
 Bridle=Track=Bruinbun=2795=EPSG%3A4326

The way the output is displayed seems to vary slightly with different browsers 
(I prefer Firefox)  but the essential information is the same, whichever 
browser one uses.




On Mon, 6 Mar 2023, at 8:59 PM, Mark Pulley wrote:
> One question I forgot to ask yesterday - what do I call the track?
>
> When I did my original survey in 2009, I called it ‘Bridle Track’. At 
> some stage it was changed to “The Bridle Track” as that is the name 
> used on the DCS NSW Base Map.
>
> All the road name signs I saw on this trip have “Bridle Track” (without 
> the “The”)
>
> The signs on the camp areas had “Bridle Track” at the top near the 
> reserve name, but “The Bridle Track” on the map on the signs.
>
> Should I remove the “The” from the name? 
>
> Mark P.
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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[Warin]

On 6/3/23 20:59, Mark Pulley wrote:

One question I forgot to ask yesterday - what do I call the track?

When I did my original survey in 2009, I called it ‘Bridle Track’. At 
some stage it was changed to “The Bridle Track” as that is the name 
used on the DCS NSW Base Map.


All the road name signs I saw on this trip have “Bridle Track” 
(without the “The”)


The signs on the camp areas had “Bridle Track” at the top near the 
reserve name, but “The Bridle Track” on the map on the signs.


Should I remove the “The” from the name?



Thanks for the survey!

Yes please to remove 'The' if that is not how it is signed locally. 
Maybe alt_name=The etc?


I expect the bull dust is due to traffic and no watering of the road as 
it was constructed. When it gets rain there maybe washer ways where the 
bull dist now exists..


I expect further deregulation with more traffic until it gets bad enough 
to discourage many.



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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[Mark Pulley]

One question I forgot to ask yesterday - what do I call the track?

When I did my original survey in 2009, I called it ‘Bridle Track’. At some 
stage it was changed to “The Bridle Track” as that is the name used on the DCS 
NSW Base Map.

All the road name signs I saw on this trip have “Bridle Track” (without the 
“The”)

The signs on the camp areas had “Bridle Track” at the top near the reserve 
name, but “The Bridle Track” on the map on the signs.

Should I remove the “The” from the name? 

Mark P.___
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