Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Ewen Hill]

The Royal Flying Doctor Service (RFDS) have an Australian database of
around 2200 airstrips and airports although not all are in use or are
certified for use by the RFDS.These range from

   - Domestic/intl airports with regular commuter flights,
   - Local council run airfields like  Colac and Apollo Bay (Victoria),
   - First Nation community airfields like  Kalumburu in WA (Ex Royal
   Australian Airforce) and  Pormpuraaw (Qld)
   - Private airfields with tourist services (William Creek SA) -
   although this has been a "Temporary facility" for many years
   - Ranch/Homestead/Cattle Stations/Pastoral leases (Anna Creek (SA))
   - Beach airfields (Frazer Island (south of Eli Creek, Qld))
   - Sea-Plan landings like Rose Bay (Sydney) and Hume Dam (Boss 360
   firefighting aircraft)
   - Highway airstrips (above)
   - Forest fire fighting strips
   - Ultra light landing strips / helicopter refuelling) where possibly an
   old disused runway has been repurposed for a ranch outstation to
   accommodate cheaper aircraft. Anna Creek is 23,000 sqkm and there will be a
   number of places where cattle are mustered to take them to market.
   - Abandoned airstrips where pastoral leases have reverted to national
   parks/crown land or communities have not had the finance to maintain their
   airstrip/lack of need or were WW2 facilities (Fenton NT)

For aerial fire fighting purposes, the larger aircraft like (Very) Large
Air Tanker (V)LAT only use nominated airfields (e.g Avalon, East Sale
(RAAF), Albury/Wodonga for Victoria). Single Engine Air Tankers (SEATS) use
only selected airfields as bases as they need to reload fire
retardant quickly. Places like Ararat and Linga have these set up however
in long running campaign fires other airfields are used with a dedicated
ground crew.

Helicopters tend to use the local cricket/football fields (Gembrook Vic) to
refuel or park overnight unless there is an airfield and probably dams
nearby. It means the ground crews can access local services however any
road accessible flat area in a safe area will work.

I see some validity in
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Dairstrip however the
proposed
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Aerodrome appears
to be the solution along with in_use/historic. It would be ideal if this
proposal could be pushed along (or a variant) so we have some basis of
conformity as retagging 3000+ locations is probably going to need manual
updates.

Ewen

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 at 09:50, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 19:59, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have redefined my query: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/PfU
>>
>
> Just looked at that query for SEQ - NNSW area & it appears that there are
> a lot of aerodromes not showing up?
>
>  I understand that minor airstrips without IATA / ICAO codes won't show,
> but many of the ones that haven't appeared do have them eg Gold Coast,
> Brisbane, both Toowoomba Airports.
>
> Running the query as is gave 555 nodes, running it for the same area just
> as =aerodromes gave 1285 nodes, 50 ways & 2 relations‽
>
>   Thanks
>
> Graeme
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-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Ian Sergeant]

I'd say there is zero chance that any fixed wing aircraft have used that
strip in the past year.

It's closed to fixed wing craft, and it's absolutely not safe for use.  If
it is approved redevelopment (it's NPWS land, not council) it will likely
be redeveloped with only a single paved runway.

My opinion with airstrips is that we should err on the side of caution.
We've had OSM polluted over the years with imports from ourairports, etc -
that have seen even navigation beacons marked as airstrips.  And *lots* of
strips where there is no possibility of a landing.

And bear in mind that although OSM is not suitable for flight planning,
just about every GA pilot has the OSM maps with them in the cockpit - so in
an emergency it would be nice to thing that someone adding an airstrip at
least was pointing at a bit of dirt that would give you a chance of
survival, and not just colouring in.

And for non-security controlled strips - what a polygon would mean is
unclear.  The ownership boundary of the airport owner?  The fence (if there
is one).  Limits of access - if that is meaningful?

Ian.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 19:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 27/12/19 16:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 15:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.
>>
>
> I notice that the airfield is marked as "disused", but in the article, the
> new owner says they've had chopper flights come in over the last year?
>
> Should it be re-marked as an active helipad, at least?
>
>
> Think the fire fighting would have seen both helicopters and fixed wing
> aircraft (e.g. crop dusters fitted with water) using it in the last month
> or two.
> The council wants the strip to continue.
>
> I'd leave it as it is and see what happens in the longer term.
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 19:59, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have redefined my query: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/PfU
>

Just looked at that query for SEQ - NNSW area & it appears that there are a
lot of aerodromes not showing up?

 I understand that minor airstrips without IATA / ICAO codes won't show,
but many of the ones that haven't appeared do have them eg Gold Coast,
Brisbane, both Toowoomba Airports.

Running the query as is gave 555 nodes, running it for the same area just
as =aerodromes gave 1285 nodes, 50 ways & 2 relations‽

  Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Andrew Harvey]

I think if there's some kind of distinguishable boundary from the imagery
it's okay to convert to an area, even if it's approximate. There's not too
much harm since you can always take the centroid if you prefer a node.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 20:59, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have redefined my query: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/PfU
>
> Are you okay to manually add polygons around the airports only if they
> have *iata* or *icao* tags?
>
> Thanks,
> Nemanja
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 9:39 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 27/12/19 16:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 15:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.
>>>
>>
>> I notice that the airfield is marked as "disused", but in the article,
>> the new owner says they've had chopper flights come in over the last year?
>>
>> Should it be re-marked as an active helipad, at least?
>>
>>
>> Think the fire fighting would have seen both helicopters and fixed wing
>> aircraft (e.g. crop dusters fitted with water) using it in the last month
>> or two.
>> The council wants the strip to continue.
>>
>> I'd leave it as it is and see what happens in the longer term.
>> ___
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Nemanja Bračko]

Hi,

I have redefined my query: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/PfU

Are you okay to manually add polygons around the airports only if they have
*iata* or *icao* tags?

Thanks,
Nemanja

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 9:39 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 27/12/19 16:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 15:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.
>>
>
> I notice that the airfield is marked as "disused", but in the article, the
> new owner says they've had chopper flights come in over the last year?
>
> Should it be re-marked as an active helipad, at least?
>
>
> Think the fire fighting would have seen both helicopters and fixed wing
> aircraft (e.g. crop dusters fitted with water) using it in the last month
> or two.
> The council wants the strip to continue.
>
> I'd leave it as it is and see what happens in the longer term.
> ___
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Warin]

On 27/12/19 16:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:



On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 15:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.


I notice that the airfield is marked as "disused", but in the article, 
the new owner says they've had chopper flights come in over the last year?


Should it be re-marked as an active helipad, at least?


Think the fire fighting would have seen both helicopters and fixed wing 
aircraft (e.g. crop dusters fitted with water) using it in the last 
month or two.

The council wants the strip to continue.

I'd leave it as it is and see what happens in the longer term.
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Phil Wyatt]

Thanks Warin,

 

I have updated the highway with the details. Would you like to check and then 
remove the previous runway polygon? Not sure it has a specific ‘name’ for the 
runway. I am interested to see how it renders with those details attached.

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8966/127.6155

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2019 4:38 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

 

On 27/12/19 09:44, Phil Wyatt wrote:

Hi Folks,

 

You also need to consider how you deal with emergency road airstrips which are 
pretty common in Australia

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8969/127.6186

 

There now exists tagging for them 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Dhighway_strip


I think the given example is poor. The 'name' is more of a description. Nothing 
to say this is an emergency strip only - the local cops need to remove roadside 
signs and posts for aircraft to land.. and they need to close the highway.  The 
highway lacks the correct tags... 

Note I have never seen any of them on an unpaved road, I would think the RFDS 
would request the road section be paved, and the local council would be hard 
put to say no. 

 

In general I would say that many of the outback strips wont appear on other 
mapping software (certainly not Apple maps) as they often wont even have roads 
in some of these areas. 

 

Maybe mapping threshold to threshold and the graded area will be enough in most 
cases.

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1042093864#map=16/-25.2385/122.0674


I think just map the runway aeroway=runway usually with surface=unpaved - no 
airport boundaries, just use the node for the 'airport'.


Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult. 

The person who use to run the airfield died. The new lot have caused some 
controversy with their plans .. 


https://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/potential-to-scare-tourists-away-bitter-dispute-engulfs-katoomba-airfield-20190830-p52m9x.html


I expect it is fairly busy now with the fire fighting going on. 






 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Nemanja Bračko  <mailto:brack...@gmail.com>  
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2019 9:16 AM
To: Graeme Fitzpatrick  <mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com> 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List  <mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org> 

Subject: Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

 

Answers are in line.

 

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com> > wrote:




 

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

@Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals at the 
moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.

 

So this would only be NSW?

No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the states/territories we 
would use aerial imagery only. 

 

@others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a 
airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway (zebras at 
the beginning and at the end)? 

 

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to all of you 
to be marked as a polygon.

 

Where a polygon cannot reasonably be determined usually the runway/s can be 
made out - so just map the runways. 

 

Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with attached 
node suffice?

We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not all), so we 
want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not keen to just blindly 
add polygons, so this is the reason why we are asking all of you. 

 

Thanks,

Nemanja

 

 

Thanks

 

Graeme






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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 15:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.
>

I notice that the airfield is marked as "disused", but in the article, the
new owner says they've had chopper flights come in over the last year?

Should it be re-marked as an active helipad, at least?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Warin]

On 27/12/19 09:44, Phil Wyatt wrote:


Hi Folks,

You also need to consider how you deal with emergency road airstrips 
which are pretty common in Australia


https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8969/127.6186



There now exists tagging for them

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Dhighway_strip


I think the given example is poor. The 'name' is more of a description. 
Nothing to say this is an emergency strip only - the local cops need to 
remove roadside signs and posts for aircraft to land.. and they need to 
close the highway.  The highway lacks the correct tags...


Note I have never seen any of them on an unpaved road, I would think the 
RFDS would request the road section be paved, and the local council 
would be hard put to say no.


In general I would say that many of the outback strips wont appear on 
other mapping software (certainly not Apple maps) as they often wont 
even have roads in some of these areas.


Maybe mapping threshold to threshold and the graded area will be 
enough in most cases.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1042093864#map=16/-25.2385/122.0674



I think just map the runway aeroway=runway usually with surface=unpaved 
- no airport boundaries, just use the node for the 'airport'.



Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.

The person who use to run the airfield died. The new lot have caused 
some controversy with their plans ..



https://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/potential-to-scare-tourists-away-bitter-dispute-engulfs-katoomba-airfield-20190830-p52m9x.html


I expect it is fairly busy now with the fire fighting going on.




Cheers - Phil

*From:*Nemanja Bračko 
*Sent:* Friday, 27 December 2019 9:16 AM
*To:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
*Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

Answers are in line.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:



On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com>> wrote:

@Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any
other signals at the moment except imagery, and except for NSW
where we have a base map.

So this would only be NSW?

No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the 
states/territories we would use aerial imagery only.


@others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize
tarmac on a airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the
end of the runway (zebras at the beginning and at the end)?

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to 
all of you to be marked as a polygon.




Where a polygon cannot reasonably be determined usually the runway/s can 
be made out - so just map the runways.



Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with
attached node suffice?

We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not 
all), so we want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not 
keen to just blindly add polygons, so this is the reason why we are 
asking all of you.


Thanks,

Nemanja

Thanks

Graeme



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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

You also need to consider how you deal with emergency road airstrips which are 
pretty common in Australia

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8969/127.6186

 

In general I would say that many of the outback strips wont appear on other 
mapping software (certainly not Apple maps) as they often wont even have roads 
in some of these areas. 

 

Maybe mapping threshold to threshold and the graded area will be enough in most 
cases.

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1042093864#map=16/-25.2385/122.0674

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Nemanja Bračko  
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2019 9:16 AM
To: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

 

Answers are in line.

 

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com> > wrote:




 

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

@Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals at the 
moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.

 

So this would only be NSW?

No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the states/territories we 
would use aerial imagery only. 

 

@others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a 
airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway (zebras at 
the beginning and at the end)? 

 

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to all of you 
to be marked as a polygon.

 

Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with attached 
node suffice?

We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not all), so we 
want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not keen to just blindly 
add polygons, so this is the reason why we are asking all of you. 

 

Thanks,

Nemanja

 

 

Thanks

 

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Nemanja Bračko]

Answers are in line.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:
>
>>
>> @Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals
>> at the moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.
>>
>
> So this would only be NSW?
>
No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the states/territories
we would use aerial imagery only.

>
>
>> @others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a
>> airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway
>> (zebras at the beginning and at the end)?
>>
>
> But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!
>
We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to all of
you to be marked as a polygon.

>
> Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with
> attached node suffice?
>
We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not all), so
we want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not keen to just
blindly add polygons, so this is the reason why we are asking all of you.

Thanks,
Nemanja


> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:

>
> @Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals
> at the moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.
>

So this would only be NSW?


> @others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a
> airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway
> (zebras at the beginning and at the end)?
>

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with attached
node suffice?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Nemanja Bračko]

Thanks everyone for replying to this thread.

@Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals at
the moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.

@others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a
airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway
(zebras at the beginning and at the end)? Or if that 'airport' has official
code (e.g. ICAO)?

Thanks,
Nemanja

Sent from my phone

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 06:42 John Berkers  wrote:

> Hi Nemanja,
>
> It is worth noting that most airports/aerodromes in regional areas of
> Australia do not have control towers as they are centrally operated by Air
> Services Australia from one of 3 sites using remote cameras and such.  The
> presence or absence of a control tower should therefore not be the criteria
> on which to base whether it should be mapped.  While difficult to tell from
> Aerial imagery, there does appear to be a small building near the strip.
>
> Where feasible, adding the airport designations and runway numbers would
> be advantageous.  Is there a permissible dataset that contains this
> information?
>
> Digging into the listed source tag (ourairports.com) shows that they use
> OSM as the map layer, and drilling down to a chart takes you to SkyVector
> who also use OSM for map data (among other sources).
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 10:28 PM Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au <
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> We would like to manually add polygons around airports in whole
>> Australia. We have added polygons for very few airports that were marked
>> just with a single node.
>>
>>
>>
>> By using THIS  OverPass-Turbo link, you
>> can see that there are nearly 1,200 airports that needs to be inspected.
>>
>> We could recognize that other map competitors have properly marked most
>> of these airports as polygons.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, we have doubt should we add polygons in the following
>> situation(s):
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/73310214
>>
>>
>>
>> There are no control tower nor any other buildings. It has a proper name
>> Kulin Airport @-32.6721992, 118.1689987.
>>
>> Should we add a polygon in such cases?
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that *we won’t add any polygons* if the
>> airport/airstrip/runway is on the water.
>>
>>
>>
>> We believe that there is no need to preserve both way and a node of the
>> same feature. Especially because that node is somewhere at the center of
>> the airport and it doesn’t represent entry of the airport area or entry of
>> some building. Example should be Hamilton Airport @
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/407705915. We would merge existing
>> node of the airport in to polygon of the same polygon and we would remove
>> tags from the merged node.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we are adding new polygon, we would preserve existing airport node by
>> keeping this node as a part of the new polygon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the answers!
>>
>>
>>
>> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
>>
>> Nemanja
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[John Berkers]

Hi Nemanja,

It is worth noting that most airports/aerodromes in regional areas of
Australia do not have control towers as they are centrally operated by Air
Services Australia from one of 3 sites using remote cameras and such.  The
presence or absence of a control tower should therefore not be the criteria
on which to base whether it should be mapped.  While difficult to tell from
Aerial imagery, there does appear to be a small building near the strip.

Where feasible, adding the airport designations and runway numbers would be
advantageous.  Is there a permissible dataset that contains this
information?

Digging into the listed source tag (ourairports.com) shows that they use
OSM as the map layer, and drilling down to a chart takes you to SkyVector
who also use OSM for map data (among other sources).

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 10:28 PM Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> We would like to manually add polygons around airports in whole Australia.
> We have added polygons for very few airports that were marked just with a
> single node.
>
>
>
> By using THIS  OverPass-Turbo link, you
> can see that there are nearly 1,200 airports that needs to be inspected.
>
> We could recognize that other map competitors have properly marked most of
> these airports as polygons.
>
>
>
> Anyway, we have doubt should we add polygons in the following situation(s):
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/73310214
>
>
>
> There are no control tower nor any other buildings. It has a proper name
> Kulin Airport @-32.6721992, 118.1689987.
>
> Should we add a polygon in such cases?
>
>
>
> Please note that *we won’t add any polygons* if the
> airport/airstrip/runway is on the water.
>
>
>
> We believe that there is no need to preserve both way and a node of the
> same feature. Especially because that node is somewhere at the center of
> the airport and it doesn’t represent entry of the airport area or entry of
> some building. Example should be Hamilton Airport @
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/407705915. We would merge existing
> node of the airport in to polygon of the same polygon and we would remove
> tags from the merged node.
>
>
>
> If we are adding new polygon, we would preserve existing airport node by
> keeping this node as a part of the new polygon.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for the answers!
>
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
>
> Nemanja
>
>
> ___
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[cleary]

I agree with Warin's comments.

Some years ago someone did a mass import from a public-domain website with 
"airport" information. Personally I think of an airport as a location which is 
accessible to the public and which offers regular commercial flights.  Most of 
the "airports" shown in Australia are private runways which are used only in 
medical emergencies or if local roads are unusable for an extended period.  
Some are almost compeletely disused and some cannot be found in the satellite 
imagery.  Many do not have boundaries - as Warin noted. I would be concerned at 
mapping non-existent features.  I expect most of the "airports" are like the 
example cited at Kulin WA.  OSM also shows another aeroway node a few 
kilometres away from that location, this second one being for the Kulin Bush 
Races, which are held on one weekend each year. The runway appears to be on a 
farm located near the racetrack and there appear to be no boundaries that could 
be mapped.

I support mapping boundaries that actually do exist, provided we have the 
relevant information. But I expect this will be a small proportion of all the  
airports or aerodromes on the map.




On Wed, 25 Dec 2019, at 11:26 AM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au wrote:
>  
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> We would like to manually add polygons around airports in whole 
> Australia. We have added polygons for very few airports that were 
> marked just with a single node.
> 
> 
> By using THIS  OverPass-Turbo link, 
> you can see that there are nearly 1,200 airports that needs to be 
> inspected.
> 
> We could recognize that other map competitors have properly marked most 
> of these airports as polygons.
> 
> 
> Anyway, we have doubt should we add polygons in the following situation(s):
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/73310214
> 
> 
> There are no control tower nor any other buildings. It has a proper 
> name Kulin Airport @-32.6721992, 118.1689987.
> 
> Should we add a polygon in such cases?
> 
> 
> Please note that *we won’t add any polygons* if the 
> airport/airstrip/runway is on the water.
> 
> 
> We believe that there is no need to preserve both way and a node of the 
> same feature. Especially because that node is somewhere at the center 
> of the airport and it doesn’t represent entry of the airport area or 
> entry of some building. Example should be Hamilton Airport @  
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/407705915. We would merge existing 
> node of the airport in to polygon of the same polygon and we would 
> remove tags from the merged node.
> 
> 
> If we are adding new polygon, we would preserve existing airport node 
> by keeping this node as a part of the new polygon.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the answers!
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
> 
> Nemanja
> 
> 
> ___
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>

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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Warin]

Many of these 'airports' have no effective boundary and are best 
represented by a node.


Some are 'operated' by the local council and the council owns a large 
area of land around the 'airport'.


Some may be 'operated by the local station (in American 'ranch') and 
they may own some 100s of miles around the 'airport'.


These 'operators' see little point in paying scarce money to fence in 
the 'boundaries'.


Many of them have no 'regular commercial' flights, some have regular 
postal deliveries (by plane), some have the Doctor fly in (google Royal 
Flying Doctor Service).


For the state of New South Wales you may find the LPI Base Map usefull 
to find the legal boundaries, those may not exist for some of these 
'airports'.


I would not be too anxious to add closed ways for these 'airports'. Few 
people use them.



On 26/12/19 07:56, Nemanja Bračko wrote:
Yes. We do not have other signals. It is possible to miss official 
bounding box (when it is hard to see fence or when there is no fence 
at all), but it will be close enough and it will represent airport 
area. I could see that couple of airports have really rough 
approximation of the boundaries.



Thanks,
Nemanja

Sent from my phone

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 21:42 Ben Kelley > wrote:


Hi.

That seems like a good idea. How will you know the bounds of the
airport? Just from aerial photos?

 - Ben.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 22:28, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via
Talk-au mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

We would like to manually add polygons around airports in
whole Australia. We have added polygons for very few airports
that were marked just with a single node.

By using THIS  OverPass-Turbo
link, you can see that there are nearly 1,200 airports that
needs to be inspected.

We could recognize that other map competitors have properly
marked most of these airports as polygons.

Anyway, we have doubt should we add polygons in the following
situation(s):

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/73310214

There are no control tower nor any other buildings. It has a
proper name Kulin Airport @-32.6721992, 118.1689987.

Should we add a polygon in such cases?

Please note that *we won’t add any polygons* if the
airport/airstrip/runway is on the water.



Umm some of the 'water' is very intermittent .. to the degree that 
farmers plough it and plant crops on it.


We believe that there is no need to preserve both way and a
node of the same feature. Especially because that node is
somewhere at the center of the airport and it doesn’t
represent entry of the airport area or entry of some building.
Example should be Hamilton Airport @
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/407705915
. We would merge
existing node of the airport in to polygon of the same polygon
and we would remove tags from the merged node.

If we are adding new polygon, we would preserve existing
airport node by keeping this node as a part of the new polygon.

Thanks in advance for the answers!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,

Nemanja


_



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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Nemanja Bračko]

Yes. We do not have other signals. It is possible to miss official bounding
box (when it is hard to see fence or when there is no fence at all), but it
will be close enough and it will represent airport area. I could see that
couple of airports have really rough approximation of the boundaries.


Thanks,
Nemanja

Sent from my phone

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 21:42 Ben Kelley  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> That seems like a good idea. How will you know the bounds of the airport?
> Just from aerial photos?
>
>  - Ben.
>
> On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 22:28, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au <
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> We would like to manually add polygons around airports in whole
>> Australia. We have added polygons for very few airports that were marked
>> just with a single node.
>>
>>
>>
>> By using THIS  OverPass-Turbo link, you
>> can see that there are nearly 1,200 airports that needs to be inspected.
>>
>> We could recognize that other map competitors have properly marked most
>> of these airports as polygons.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, we have doubt should we add polygons in the following
>> situation(s):
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/73310214
>>
>>
>>
>> There are no control tower nor any other buildings. It has a proper name
>> Kulin Airport @-32.6721992, 118.1689987.
>>
>> Should we add a polygon in such cases?
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that *we won’t add any polygons* if the
>> airport/airstrip/runway is on the water.
>>
>>
>>
>> We believe that there is no need to preserve both way and a node of the
>> same feature. Especially because that node is somewhere at the center of
>> the airport and it doesn’t represent entry of the airport area or entry of
>> some building. Example should be Hamilton Airport @
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/407705915. We would merge existing
>> node of the airport in to polygon of the same polygon and we would remove
>> tags from the merged node.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we are adding new polygon, we would preserve existing airport node by
>> keeping this node as a part of the new polygon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the answers!
>>
>>
>>
>> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
>>
>> Nemanja
>>
>>
>>
> ___
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Ben Kelley]

Hi.

That seems like a good idea. How will you know the bounds of the airport?
Just from aerial photos?

 - Ben.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 22:28, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> We would like to manually add polygons around airports in whole Australia.
> We have added polygons for very few airports that were marked just with a
> single node.
>
>
>
> By using THIS  OverPass-Turbo link, you
> can see that there are nearly 1,200 airports that needs to be inspected.
>
> We could recognize that other map competitors have properly marked most of
> these airports as polygons.
>
>
>
> Anyway, we have doubt should we add polygons in the following situation(s):
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/73310214
>
>
>
> There are no control tower nor any other buildings. It has a proper name
> Kulin Airport @-32.6721992, 118.1689987.
>
> Should we add a polygon in such cases?
>
>
>
> Please note that *we won’t add any polygons* if the
> airport/airstrip/runway is on the water.
>
>
>
> We believe that there is no need to preserve both way and a node of the
> same feature. Especially because that node is somewhere at the center of
> the airport and it doesn’t represent entry of the airport area or entry of
> some building. Example should be Hamilton Airport @
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/407705915. We would merge existing
> node of the airport in to polygon of the same polygon and we would remove
> tags from the merged node.
>
>
>
> If we are adding new polygon, we would preserve existing airport node by
> keeping this node as a part of the new polygon.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for the answers!
>
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
>
> Nemanja
>
>
>
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[talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au]

Hi everyone,

We would like to manually add polygons around airports in whole Australia. We 
have added polygons for very few airports that were marked just with a single 
node.

By using THIS OverPass-Turbo link, you can see 
that there are nearly 1,200 airports that needs to be inspected.
We could recognize that other map competitors have properly marked most of 
these airports as polygons.

Anyway, we have doubt should we add polygons in the following situation(s):
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/73310214

There are no control tower nor any other buildings. It has a proper name Kulin 
Airport @-32.6721992, 118.1689987.
Should we add a polygon in such cases?

Please note that we won't add any polygons if the airport/airstrip/runway is on 
the water.

We believe that there is no need to preserve both way and a node of the same 
feature. Especially because that node is somewhere at the center of the airport 
and it doesn't represent entry of the airport area or entry of some building. 
Example should be Hamilton Airport @ 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/407705915. We would merge existing node of 
the airport in to polygon of the same polygon and we would remove tags from the 
merged node.

If we are adding new polygon, we would preserve existing airport node by 
keeping this node as a part of the new polygon.

Thanks in advance for the answers!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
Nemanja

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