Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[Sebastian S.]

Hi,
I have made excessive use of the node tag for islands.
Particularly for pedestrian crossing.

Splitting the road into two separate ways for only a few metres seems excessive 
to me. Even when there is a several Meter long raised kerb separating the lanes 
I would not split the road.




On 1 September 2020 10:05:42 pm AEST, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>Heads up, looks like their team has started to map in Perth, see on
>OSMCha
>-> https://osmcha.org/?aoi=80b50a6d-6bb5-48cb-8ac4-4b2ddd9d5d76
>
>Mostly looks okay to me, and mostly minor tweaks, though I raised a few
>questions and issues on changeset comments but also listed most of them
>here:
>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840589945/history was added but the
>existing road name and other applicable attributes were not applied.
>This
>same issue happens in quite a few other places too so appears to be
>systemic. I've raised some changeset comments but worth including this
>as
>part of the standard practice by your editing team.
>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/842851495/history is that a
>roundabout? I
>can't tell from the Maxar imagery, yet that is the claimed source, how
>could you tell from the imagery what this is?
>
>I personally find splitting ways for a traffic island at roundabouts
>like
>in https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840189281/history a tad to
>excessive
>(would prefer to just tag the node as traffic island and use one way,
>gives
>a much cleaner dataset as the transition between dual and single
>carriageways is always messy) but I guess it's not wrong and both
>styles
>are popular in OSM currently. Does the community have a view on this?
>
>Unclear source of the turn restriction in
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/90223764#map=18/-32.04553/115.80953
>
>On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 21:28, OSM NextBillion. AI 
>wrote:
>
>> Thank you cleary for valuable insights, we would be more cautious
>while
>> mapping in such areas. While Satellite Imagery is our prime resource,
>we’d
>> consider mapillary photos as well wherever available. We do have some
>> expert assistance in our team for interpreting satellite imagery and
>map
>> something only if we’re double sure of it’s existence. We will refer
>to
>> mappers history before editing existing data to understand if it was
>> created using local expertise and would change only if there is
>conclusive
>> evidence from satellite and mapillary imageries.
>>
>> We will reach out to local mapping experts through forum and/or
>changeset
>> comments if we require further help.
>>
>> Thank you all once again for the suggestions, we look forward to
>working
>> with you all. :)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 05:35, cleary  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the interest in mapping in Australia and thanks for
>posting
>>> your plans on this list.
>>>
>>> I would add to the caution expressed by others.  I live in an urban
>>> location in Australia but I have travelled in other areas within
>>> Australia.  It has taken me quite some time to learn to interpret
>satellite
>>> imagery and I still have a lot to learn about this country.  After
>>> personally visiting areas and noting what I see, and sometimes
>taking
>>> photographs, I then return home and compare my notes with what I see
>in the
>>> imagery and I am still surprised.  I think it can be quite
>precarious to
>>> map features using just satellite imagery unless you have expert
>assistance
>>> in interpreting the imagery.  For example, a common error by others
>has
>>> been to map lines of cleared vegetation as roads when they are
>actually
>>> fences. Even where an unmapped road exists, it is probably still
>unmapped
>>> because it is a private road and not accessible by the public - many
>of the
>>> roads on rural properties in Australia are private and, if added to
>the
>>> map, need to marked as such. Farmers get annoyed about intruders on
>their
>>> farms especially as biosecurity is a significant concern in parts of
>>> Australia.
>>>
>>> So while I appreciate contributions to the map, I suggest that
>"armchair"
>>> mapping needs to be undertaken with a lot of caution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020, at 2:17 AM, OSM NextBillion. AI wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be
>doing
>>> > minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of
>>> > weeks, in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines
>[Link
>>> >
>].
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Please refer our Wiki
>>> >  and
>Github
>>> >  project pages
>for
>>> > more information.
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>>> >
>>> > Thanking you in advance,
>>> > Team NextBillion
>>> > ___
>>> > Talk-au mailing list
>>> > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> > 

Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[Andrew Harvey]

Heads up, looks like their team has started to map in Perth, see on OSMCha
-> https://osmcha.org/?aoi=80b50a6d-6bb5-48cb-8ac4-4b2ddd9d5d76

Mostly looks okay to me, and mostly minor tweaks, though I raised a few
questions and issues on changeset comments but also listed most of them
here:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840589945/history was added but the
existing road name and other applicable attributes were not applied. This
same issue happens in quite a few other places too so appears to be
systemic. I've raised some changeset comments but worth including this as
part of the standard practice by your editing team.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/842851495/history is that a roundabout? I
can't tell from the Maxar imagery, yet that is the claimed source, how
could you tell from the imagery what this is?

I personally find splitting ways for a traffic island at roundabouts like
in https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840189281/history a tad to excessive
(would prefer to just tag the node as traffic island and use one way, gives
a much cleaner dataset as the transition between dual and single
carriageways is always messy) but I guess it's not wrong and both styles
are popular in OSM currently. Does the community have a view on this?

Unclear source of the turn restriction in
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/90223764#map=18/-32.04553/115.80953

On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 21:28, OSM NextBillion. AI 
wrote:

> Thank you cleary for valuable insights, we would be more cautious while
> mapping in such areas. While Satellite Imagery is our prime resource, we’d
> consider mapillary photos as well wherever available. We do have some
> expert assistance in our team for interpreting satellite imagery and map
> something only if we’re double sure of it’s existence. We will refer to
> mappers history before editing existing data to understand if it was
> created using local expertise and would change only if there is conclusive
> evidence from satellite and mapillary imageries.
>
> We will reach out to local mapping experts through forum and/or changeset
> comments if we require further help.
>
> Thank you all once again for the suggestions, we look forward to working
> with you all. :)
>
>
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 05:35, cleary  wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for the interest in mapping in Australia and thanks for posting
>> your plans on this list.
>>
>> I would add to the caution expressed by others.  I live in an urban
>> location in Australia but I have travelled in other areas within
>> Australia.  It has taken me quite some time to learn to interpret satellite
>> imagery and I still have a lot to learn about this country.  After
>> personally visiting areas and noting what I see, and sometimes taking
>> photographs, I then return home and compare my notes with what I see in the
>> imagery and I am still surprised.  I think it can be quite precarious to
>> map features using just satellite imagery unless you have expert assistance
>> in interpreting the imagery.  For example, a common error by others has
>> been to map lines of cleared vegetation as roads when they are actually
>> fences. Even where an unmapped road exists, it is probably still unmapped
>> because it is a private road and not accessible by the public - many of the
>> roads on rural properties in Australia are private and, if added to the
>> map, need to marked as such. Farmers get annoyed about intruders on their
>> farms especially as biosecurity is a significant concern in parts of
>> Australia.
>>
>> So while I appreciate contributions to the map, I suggest that "armchair"
>> mapping needs to be undertaken with a lot of caution.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020, at 2:17 AM, OSM NextBillion. AI wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing
>> > minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of
>> > weeks, in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link
>> > ].
>> >
>> >
>> > Please refer our Wiki
>> >  and Github
>> >  project pages for
>> > more information.
>> >
>> > Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>> >
>> > Thanking you in advance,
>> > Team NextBillion
>> > ___
>> > Talk-au mailing list
>> > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
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Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[OSM NextBillion. AI]

Thank you cleary for valuable insights, we would be more cautious while
mapping in such areas. While Satellite Imagery is our prime resource, we’d
consider mapillary photos as well wherever available. We do have some
expert assistance in our team for interpreting satellite imagery and map
something only if we’re double sure of it’s existence. We will refer to
mappers history before editing existing data to understand if it was
created using local expertise and would change only if there is conclusive
evidence from satellite and mapillary imageries.

We will reach out to local mapping experts through forum and/or changeset
comments if we require further help.

Thank you all once again for the suggestions, we look forward to working
with you all. :)


On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 05:35, cleary  wrote:

>
> Thanks for the interest in mapping in Australia and thanks for posting
> your plans on this list.
>
> I would add to the caution expressed by others.  I live in an urban
> location in Australia but I have travelled in other areas within
> Australia.  It has taken me quite some time to learn to interpret satellite
> imagery and I still have a lot to learn about this country.  After
> personally visiting areas and noting what I see, and sometimes taking
> photographs, I then return home and compare my notes with what I see in the
> imagery and I am still surprised.  I think it can be quite precarious to
> map features using just satellite imagery unless you have expert assistance
> in interpreting the imagery.  For example, a common error by others has
> been to map lines of cleared vegetation as roads when they are actually
> fences. Even where an unmapped road exists, it is probably still unmapped
> because it is a private road and not accessible by the public - many of the
> roads on rural properties in Australia are private and, if added to the
> map, need to marked as such. Farmers get annoyed about intruders on their
> farms especially as biosecurity is a significant concern in parts of
> Australia.
>
> So while I appreciate contributions to the map, I suggest that "armchair"
> mapping needs to be undertaken with a lot of caution.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020, at 2:17 AM, OSM NextBillion. AI wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> >
> > We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing
> > minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of
> > weeks, in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link
> > ].
> >
> >
> > Please refer our Wiki
> >  and Github
> >  project pages for
> > more information.
> >
> > Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
> >
> > Thanking you in advance,
> > Team NextBillion
> > ___
> > Talk-au mailing list
> > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> >
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
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Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[cleary]

Thanks for the interest in mapping in Australia and thanks for posting your 
plans on this list.

I would add to the caution expressed by others.  I live in an urban location in 
Australia but I have travelled in other areas within Australia.  It has taken 
me quite some time to learn to interpret satellite imagery and I still have a 
lot to learn about this country.  After personally visiting areas and noting 
what I see, and sometimes taking photographs, I then return home and compare my 
notes with what I see in the imagery and I am still surprised.  I think it can 
be quite precarious to map features using just satellite imagery unless you 
have expert assistance in interpreting the imagery.  For example, a common 
error by others has been to map lines of cleared vegetation as roads when they 
are actually fences. Even where an unmapped road exists, it is probably still 
unmapped because it is a private road and not accessible by the public - many 
of the roads on rural properties in Australia are private and, if added to the 
map, need to marked as such. Farmers get annoyed about intruders on their farms 
especially as biosecurity is a significant concern in parts of Australia.  

So while I appreciate contributions to the map, I suggest that "armchair" 
mapping needs to be undertaken with a lot of caution.




On Sat, 15 Aug 2020, at 2:17 AM, OSM NextBillion. AI wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing 
> minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of 
> weeks, in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link 
> ].
> 
> 
> Please refer our Wiki 
>  and Github 
>  project pages for 
> more information.
> 
> Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
> 
> Thanking you in advance,
> Team NextBillion
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

___
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Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[Andrew Harvey]

Okay. I'm interested to see what's missing as I know the Microsoft OpenMaps
team has been very active mapping roads in Australia already

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 14:26, OSM NextBillion. AI 
wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> Thank you for the quick response. As of now we resort to manual editing,
> without using AI. We would add missing roads and appropriate tags with
> publicly available Satellite imagery and Mapillary as resources and leave a
> 'fix me' tag if local knowledge is required.
>
> Thank you,
> Team NextBillion AI
>
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 09:33, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> If there is a degree of doubt, I'd suggest adding a note instead of
>> entering an AI detected road straight into the map. Often something might
>> vaguely look like a road from satellite imagery, especially in rural areas,
>> but might not actually be a road on the ground.
>>
>> I've created a filter in OSMCha for your team so will try and keep an eye
>> on your edits and encourage other Perth local mappers to do this too just
>> to keep an eye on what's being mapped.
>>
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 12:19, OSM NextBillion. AI 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>> We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing
>>> minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of weeks,
>>> in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link
>>> ].
>>>
>>> Please refer our Wiki
>>>  and Github
>>>  project pages for
>>> more information.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>>>
>>> Thanking you in advance,
>>> Team NextBillion
>>> ___
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>>
>>
___
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Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[OSM NextBillion. AI]

Hello Mateusz,

Yes, all our edits will be manual and no automated edits/imports :)

Thank you!

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 10:22, Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> Just to confirm:
>
> All edits will be made by human
> without any fully automated edits, right?
>
>
> 15 Aug 2020, 04:17 by o...@nextbillion.ai:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing
> minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of weeks,
> in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link
> ].
>
>
> Please refer our Wiki
>  and Github
>  project pages for
> more information.
>
>
> Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>
> Thanking you in advance,
> Team NextBillion
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au]

Just to confirm:

All edits will be made by human
without any fully automated edits, right?

15 Aug 2020, 04:17 by o...@nextbillion.ai:

>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
>
>
> We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing minimal 
> edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of weeks, in-line 
> with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [> Link 
> > ].
>
>
>
> Please refer our > Wiki 
> >  and > Github 
> >  project pages for more 
> information.
>
>
> Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>
> Thanking you in advance,
> Team NextBillion
>___
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Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[OSM NextBillion. AI]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for the quick response. As of now we resort to manual editing,
without using AI. We would add missing roads and appropriate tags with
publicly available Satellite imagery and Mapillary as resources and leave a
'fix me' tag if local knowledge is required.

Thank you,
Team NextBillion AI

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 09:33, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> If there is a degree of doubt, I'd suggest adding a note instead of
> entering an AI detected road straight into the map. Often something might
> vaguely look like a road from satellite imagery, especially in rural areas,
> but might not actually be a road on the ground.
>
> I've created a filter in OSMCha for your team so will try and keep an eye
> on your edits and encourage other Perth local mappers to do this too just
> to keep an eye on what's being mapped.
>
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 12:19, OSM NextBillion. AI 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing
>> minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of weeks,
>> in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link
>> ].
>>
>> Please refer our Wiki
>>  and Github
>>  project pages for
>> more information.
>>
>> Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>>
>> Thanking you in advance,
>> Team NextBillion
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
___
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Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[Andrew Harvey]

If there is a degree of doubt, I'd suggest adding a note instead of
entering an AI detected road straight into the map. Often something might
vaguely look like a road from satellite imagery, especially in rural areas,
but might not actually be a road on the ground.

I've created a filter in OSMCha for your team so will try and keep an eye
on your edits and encourage other Perth local mappers to do this too just
to keep an eye on what's being mapped.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 12:19, OSM NextBillion. AI 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing
> minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of weeks,
> in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link
> ].
>
> Please refer our Wiki
>  and Github
>  project pages for
> more information.
>
> Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>
> Thanking you in advance,
> Team NextBillion
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
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[talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[OSM NextBillion. AI]

Hi all,


We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be doing minimal
edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of weeks, in-line
with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines [Link
].

Please refer our Wiki
 and Github
 project pages for
more information.

Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺

Thanking you in advance,
Team NextBillion
___
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