Re: [talk-au] Getting is right
Hi Ian Um? Writing to a bureaucracy and reading their response thrills almost as much an month long recital of Vogon poetry. But will give the Minister a shot once I work out the approach. Tempted by something along the lines of During the Second World War Britain made great attempts to keep place names secert. Can you please tell (insert state naming registry authority) that the second world war is over. Something tells me that Minister will not mind but the mapping authorities might come under pressure from the commercial mappers to hold this information back. Stay tune but in the intervening ice age the lakes I have madly been mapping are like to have change. Cheers From: inas66+...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:49:46 +1000 Subject: Re: [talk-au] Getting is right To: brussell...@live.com.au CC: talk-au@openstreetmap.org On 11 September 2012 12:42, Brett Russell brussell...@live.com.au wrote: I have been looking at few commercial mapping products closely and it is interesting to see the errors. In the cities it seems not so bad, but google maps on minor roads outside of major urban centres is a work of fiction. But I am curious that using the List in Tassie to check names is wrong? It is a Government service and one that actually forces name changes such as the removable of possessive names and even names it does not like. Russell Fallls for example was not correct but it subsequently decreed to be. The government surveyor stuffed that up many years ago. The Tasmanian Government clearly claims copyright. Why not write a nice letter to the General Manager, Information and Land Services. Set out that what OSM is, and ask for permission to check names against the LIST, and release the resulting data under a free and open licence. Say they will be attributed if they wish at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors. If they say yes, we have explicit permission. If they say no, then you probably weren't allowed to begin with. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Getting is right
On 11/09/12 13:49, Ian Sergeant wrote: The Tasmanian Government clearly claims copyright. Why not write a nice letter to the General Manager, Information and Land Services. Set out that what OSM is, and ask for permission to check names against the LIST, and release the resulting data under a free and open licence. Say they will be attributed if they wish at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors. If they say yes, we have explicit permission. If they say no, then you probably weren't allowed to begin with. And if you get no response then that means no. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Getting is right
Hi Brett, Your email prompted me to create something I have been meaning to do for a while: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission Hope it helps. Else, if you think meeting Vogon poetry [1] with Vogon poetry would be better, the License Working Group can help if you can get contact details and links to what the data is and how it is licensed. Mike Proud Vogon Bard [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon On 11/09/2012 10:59, Brett Russell wrote: Hi Ian Um? Writing to a bureaucracy and reading their response thrills almost as much an month long recital of Vogon poetry. But will give the Minister a shot once I work out the approach. Tempted by something along the lines of During the Second World War Britain made great attempts to keep place names secert. Can you please tell (insert state naming registry authority) that the second world war is over. Something tells me that Minister will not mind but the mapping authorities might come under pressure from the commercial mappers to hold this information back. Stay tune but in the intervening ice age the lakes I have madly been mapping are like to have change. Cheers From: inas66+...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:49:46 +1000 Subject: Re: [talk-au] Getting is right To: brussell...@live.com.au CC: talk-au@openstreetmap.org On 11 September 2012 12:42, Brett Russell brussell...@live.com.au wrote: I have been looking at few commercial mapping products closely and it is interesting to see the errors. In the cities it seems not so bad, but google maps on minor roads outside of major urban centres is a work of fiction. But I am curious that using the List in Tassie to check names is wrong? It is a Government service and one that actually forces name changes such as the removable of possessive names and even names it does not like. Russell Fallls for example was not correct but it subsequently decreed to be. The government surveyor stuffed that up many years ago. The Tasmanian Government clearly claims copyright. Why not write a nice letter to the General Manager, Information and Land Services. Set out that what OSM is, and ask for permission to check names against the LIST, and release the resulting data under a free and open licence. Say they will be attributed if they wish at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors. If they say yes, we have explicit permission. If they say no, then you probably weren't allowed to begin with. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Getting is right
Hi Looks good. I might just manage not to resort to chewing my own arm off to survive. Get the feeling that relentless pressure from many will get the walls to crumble. So I will be the first assault with my trumpet. Cheers Brett capable of proving that a musical instrument can be an instrument of terror. On 11/09/2012, at 9:30 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: Hi Brett, Your email prompted me to create something I have been meaning to do for a while: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission Hope it helps. Else, if you think meeting Vogon poetry [1] with Vogon poetry would be better, the License Working Group can help if you can get contact details and links to what the data is and how it is licensed. Mike Proud Vogon Bard [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon On 11/09/2012 10:59, Brett Russell wrote: Hi Ian Um? Writing to a bureaucracy and reading their response thrills almost as much an month long recital of Vogon poetry. But will give the Minister a shot once I work out the approach. Tempted by something along the lines of During the Second World War Britain made great attempts to keep place names secert. Can you please tell (insert state naming registry authority) that the second world war is over. Something tells me that Minister will not mind but the mapping authorities might come under pressure from the commercial mappers to hold this information back. Stay tune but in the intervening ice age the lakes I have madly been mapping are like to have change. Cheers From: inas66+...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:49:46 +1000 Subject: Re: [talk-au] Getting is right To: brussell...@live.com.au CC: talk-au@openstreetmap.org On 11 September 2012 12:42, Brett Russell brussell...@live.com.au wrote: I have been looking at few commercial mapping products closely and it is interesting to see the errors. In the cities it seems not so bad, but google maps on minor roads outside of major urban centres is a work of fiction. But I am curious that using the List in Tassie to check names is wrong? It is a Government service and one that actually forces name changes such as the removable of possessive names and even names it does not like. Russell Fallls for example was not correct but it subsequently decreed to be. The government surveyor stuffed that up many years ago. The Tasmanian Government clearly claims copyright. Why not write a nice letter to the General Manager, Information and Land Services. Set out that what OSM is, and ask for permission to check names against the LIST, and release the resulting data under a free and open licence. Say they will be attributed if they wish at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors. If they say yes, we have explicit permission. If they say no, then you probably weren't allowed to begin with. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Getting is right
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Brett Russell brussell...@live.com.au wrote: Hi Looks good. I might just manage not to resort to chewing my own arm off to survive. [ ... ] Individual OSM contributors have approached dozens (or perhaps hundreds, now) of governments from tiny to big and found success. They've also found some regressive governments, but hey, we won't know until we try. Good luck. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Getting is right
On 12/09/2012, at 2:45 AM, Richard Weait wrote: Individual OSM contributors have approached dozens (or perhaps hundreds, now) of governments from tiny to big and found success. They've also found some regressive governments, but hey, we won't know until we try. Good luck. I've been wanting to contact my own local government about OSM-related matters, but what to say about the license? Do I tell them it's CC-BY-SA, only to cause them confusion when it changes... or make me look like an idiot when they visit the website in the next X days and see that it is something different... or confuse them by saying it's CC-BY-SA right now, but it's going to change to ODbL at some unknown point... Hence I've delayed a lot of such communication (for MONTHS now). Another example - I have a friend doing tertiary studies who had to use content from the internet and explain in his assignment why it was not breaching copyright law to use it. I initially thought OSM would be great for such an assignment, but then reconsidered because he may claim in the assignment that the data is CC-BY-SA, but if/when the teacher goes to check it all out -- for all we know by then it will have changed to ODbL... then he's marked down as a result of giving inaccurate information. These are real practical uncertainties of this license limbo period. Hopefully we can move ahead with certainty very soon. BJ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Getting is right
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Ben Johnson tangarar...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/09/2012, at 2:45 AM, Richard Weait wrote: Individual OSM contributors have approached dozens (or perhaps hundreds, now) of governments from tiny to big and found success. They've also found some regressive governments, but hey, we won't know until we try. Good luck. I've been wanting to contact my own local government about OSM-related matters, but what to say about the license? [ ... ] It's not that tough compared with getting their attention. :-) Granted, it will be simpler to explain next week, after the transition. When we were first talking with the Canadian national mapping agency, we explained the license change process to them. They were fine with it and have been not just licensing to OSM but participating in OSM for years now. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Getting is right
Hi I have been looking at few commercial mapping products closely and it is interesting to see the errors. 1. Wrong names used. 2. Peaks in the wrong place. 3. Tracks that cross lakes. 4. Tracks that start and end in the middle of no where. 5. Tracks massively out of date or just plain wrong. 6. Zoom levels not optimized for intended use. By that walking tracks or cycle routes disappear way too quickly as you zoom out. 7. Claimed level of detail simply not there. By comparison with OSM is nearly always missing data but hey that is for me to fix if it annoys me. My only concern is some evil mapper will use the efforts and then attempt a legal war of attrition to make life hard. Have not seen a sign of this yet. But I am curious that using the List in Tassie to check names is wrong? It is a Government service and one that actually forces name changes such as the removable of possessive names and even names it does not like. Russell Fallls for example was not correct but it subsequently decreed to be. The government surveyor stuffed that up many years ago. The List is the official bible for place names and surely checking OSM against it can not be so wrong. Sure downloading chunks is a different story. OSM will eventually be a worry to commercial mappers so care is needed but the only way to get the names of geographic freatures is this source as signs just do not exist. Local knowledge actually comes from maps at some point in the past. Cheers Brett ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
