Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
2010/1/16 Jim Croft : > this is not to denigrate the actions, only to point out we can do even > better in making information and data available. Yes but it won't happen simply because greed and other selfish acts will get in the way. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
2010/1/16 Roy Wallace : > Interesting. But the catch is, as you say, "only what is edited from > existing PD data". And if you have different mappers using different If that's too much of a limitation then more drastic action would be needed, nothing will please everyone all the time. > licenses, wouldn't that make it harder for companies like nearmap to > say "we give OSM license to trace from our stuff"? This is a completely different issue, and it will be a limitation no matter if this is done through the existing OSM frame work or not. With regard to licensing, and even if Nearmap objects to having derived data made available as PD that doesn't stop other companies or government agencies from allowing derived data to be released as PD. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 2:43 PM, John Smith wrote: > > If we can get people making editors to add tags to changesets based on > your license preference then any PD data, even if it's changed later > to become ODBL, can be collected. ... > the changeset might be good enough, as long as > the code collecting only PD data figures out what is new, or only what > is edited from existing PD data. Interesting. But the catch is, as you say, "only what is edited from existing PD data". And if you have different mappers using different licenses, wouldn't that make it harder for companies like nearmap to say "we give OSM license to trace from our stuff"? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 10:19 AM, wrote: > http://geosquan.blogspot.com/2010/01/haitian-earthquake-emphasizes-danger-of.html including: "For example, I watched Google, DigitalGlobe, and GeoEye all work together to get stunning imagery collected, processed, and published FREE to the international community to help a wide array of aid workers and first responders within 24 hours. I watched the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, the US State Department, and other government agencies get critical and informative data and applications out the door and into the hands of people that needed them within mere hours of the disaster - a far improvement from the Katrina days!" Now, wouldn't it have been much better if this highly commendable public good action had been resolved and taken place *before* the disaster struck so that first responders and people who needed it knew it was there, knew where it was, knew its extent, limitations and reliability, and did not have to work out what they could or could not do with it valuable hours after the event? this is not to denigrate the actions, only to point out we can do even better in making information and data available. jim -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
2010/1/16 Roy Wallace : > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:16 PM, James Livingston wrote: >> >> It's all a matter of tradeoffs and what is most important to you - being >> able to use it for whatever you want, or getting the most data in OSM. > > Well said. Funny thing is, they're not independent - i.e. making OSM > data more usable for whatever anyone wants leads to more users, which > (arguably) leads to more mappers... Everything works well in theory :) Anyway Brendon and I spoke on the phone for almost an hour, and there might be a compromise that doesn't require any input from OSM-F to make it work. If we can get people making editors to add tags to changesets based on your license preference then any PD data, even if it's changed later to become ODBL, can be collected. Alternatively you can just add a license=[PD|ODBL] to the changeset when you upload it, original I thought to add this to every way/node/relation, but the changeset might be good enough, as long as the code collecting only PD data figures out what is new, or only what is edited from existing PD data. I'm planning to add a feature enhancement request to JOSM based on this, but would be interested in what others think of it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:16 PM, James Livingston wrote: > > It's all a matter of tradeoffs and what is most important to you - being able > to use it for whatever you want, or getting the most data in OSM. Well said. Funny thing is, they're not independent - i.e. making OSM data more usable for whatever anyone wants leads to more users, which (arguably) leads to more mappers... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
On 16/01/2010, at 9:32 AM, John Smith wrote: > This seems like a spurious argument, ok your suggestion will allow > both projects to "profit" from your data, but any additions can't be > shared back with your suggested project, nor will Google share any of > it's data back, unless it's in Google's own best interest, any data > Google releases won't allow commercial use, so you still wouldn't be > able to incorporate it. > > So Google gets free labour, and you get nothing in return... sounds > win-loose to me. If getting something in return is what you want from it, then yes. On the other hand if you just want people to be able to use your data, then it's fine. People have mentioned this many times before but front page of the OSM wiki says "The project was started because most maps you think of as free actually have legal or technical restrictions on their use, holding back people from using them in creative, productive, or unexpected ways". Share-alike provisions form a legal restriction on what you can use it for, holding you back from combining the data with other datasets under an incompatible licence. It's all a matter of tradeoffs and what is most important to you - being able to use it for whatever you want, or getting the most data in OSM. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
2010/1/16 : > Hi everyone, > > As I work to bring CommonMap to fruition I'm heartened that I'm not the only > one > that wants to see it happen. > > If you're handy to Brisbane tonight then come join the CommonMap association > as > part of the Samford Mapping Party > (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Samford_Mapping_Party_January_2010) > and vote to see it incorporated > (http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association/Incorporation/Agenda). I would have liked to attend, because I would have liked to discuss this further with you in person. > "As it stands right now, even though the MapMaker data is free for non-profit > use, projects like OSM can't use the data because there are commercial uses > for > OSM and the data belongs to Google, not OSM. This seems like a spurious argument, ok your suggestion will allow both projects to "profit" from your data, but any additions can't be shared back with your suggested project, nor will Google share any of it's data back, unless it's in Google's own best interest, any data Google releases won't allow commercial use, so you still wouldn't be able to incorporate it. So Google gets free labour, and you get nothing in return... sounds win-loose to me. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community
Hi everyone, As I work to bring CommonMap to fruition I'm heartened that I'm not the only one that wants to see it happen. If you're handy to Brisbane tonight then come join the CommonMap association as part of the Samford Mapping Party (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Samford_Mapping_Party_January_2010) and vote to see it incorporated (http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association/Incorporation/Agenda). With reference to the blog post below, I'm just putting it out there that CommonMap is designed to be a place "where that conflation happens". With your help perhaps we can be ready for the next time the world needs it. Thanks, Brendan http://geosquan.blogspot.com/2010/01/haitian-earthquake-emphasizes-danger-of.html: "But OSM and MapMaker aren't talking and I think it is a big problem - if you want to help rescue efforts in Haiti where do you go to digitize? OSM? MapMaker? "As it stands right now, even though the MapMaker data is free for non-profit use, projects like OSM can't use the data because there are commercial uses for OSM and the data belongs to Google, not OSM. "The data is similar, but different, and needs to be conflated. Where that conflation happens, how it happens, I don't know - but I do know that we need to do something to fix this split before it gets people hurt." ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
