Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
--- On Mon, 15/6/09, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > > > What is holding me up is the licence - I can't > > > realistically write and say "well it might be this > > > licence, but it might not, either." > > > I thought it was licensed cc by attribution? > > It is right now, but there is months on > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk > > about new licence proposal and how to actually change over > when a new licence is accepted > > (blah, blah) > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License After a quick read it seems the intent of the license is the same, the only difference is the legalese. So rather than explaining it in specific license terms, you just give a broad description without getting into specifics. eg, The license allows you to take the data and do what you like with it as long as you attribute it to openstreetmap.org or did I miss something or over look something? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: > --- On Mon, 15/6/09, Liz wrote: > > What is holding me up is the licence - I can't > > realistically write and say "well it might be this > > licence, but it might not, either." > > I thought it was licensed cc by attribution? It is right now, but there is months on http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk about new licence proposal and how to actually change over when a new licence is accepted (blah, blah) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License -- Every why hath a wherefore. -- William Shakespeare, "A Comedy of Errors" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
--- On Mon, 15/6/09, Liz wrote: > I wrote it watching the abysmal GPS service on the plane, > with the badly spelled place names eg Tumat for Tumut. > > Already our map is far far better than the one they are > using. I haven't flown Virgin since ummm it's been a while, but Qantas and United 747 flights to the US have pretty basic maps too, dunno what they have on the new airbus 380's. Also they don't do in flight entertainment/screens on most/all US domestic flights I've been on, so at least you're up a notch on AU flights ;) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: > Personally I think that marketing to the masses would yield better results. > Ie: organise more mapping parties where newbies are encouraged to attend > and are introduced to a friendly, supportive atmosphere. Or get a few small > regions "finished" and get some printed maps into tourist information > centers and youth hostels. I dare say that small regions such as the Sydney > CBD and Canberra would be excellent pilot projects which could be started > right away. > > By getting lots of free maps out to the people it broadens our readership. > Eventually I think it would be really awesome to get an OSM street > directory onto bookshop shelves, starting with capital cities (or regional > centers, as they're smaller goals) and eventually (in 5-10 years) > publishing an "OSM touring guide", complete with a Wikipedia-like database > of town descriptions, free camping sites etc, kind of like a compeditor to > Explore Australia. > > Anyway, I've seriously rambled on here. I think that both general populace > marketing and MP petitioning are needed, but if somebody has some spare > time and a choice, what does Talk-Au think they should concentrate on? . I have half written a letter to Virgin Blue. I wrote it watching the abysmal GPS service on the plane, with the badly spelled place names eg Tumat for Tumut. Already our map is far far better than the one they are using. What is holding me up is the licence - I can't realistically write and say "well it might be this licence, but it might not, either." ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
--- On Mon, 15/6/09, Jeff Price wrote: > Yep > have the email history and a copy is on its way to you > directly. Thanks for that, it's exactly what I was looking for, not planning to use it word for word, but it's given me a nice template to start from. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
Yep have the email history and a copy is on its way to you directly. From: Delta Foxtrot To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, 15 June, 2009 4:04:39 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP > I approached the Sunshine Coast Council (Qld) some months > ago about accessing their data and my request is still under > review. Currently they provide mapping data without > charge to commercial vendors (eg UBD). Did you file the request in writing, and if so do you still have a copy? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
--- On Mon, 15/6/09, Jeff Price wrote: > I definitely agree external data sources > should be reviewed some how before being imported such that > anything currently in place remains as the authoritative > instance. I didn't mean to suggested that any govt provided data would be more or less accurate than what exists in the DB, but it wouldn't be any worst than landsat type quality. Unlike landsat I'd expect it would contain meta information such street/road names. > I approached the Sunshine Coast Council (Qld) some months > ago about accessing their data and my request is still under > review. Currently they provide mapping data without > charge to commercial vendors (eg UBD). Did you file the request in writing, and if so do you still have a copy? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
For districts where its a blank map I feel there would be value in getting the gazetted road data. At least that way for the few hearty souls out there collecting data it becomes an exercise of refinement, instead of 'oh boy where to start'. I definitely agree external data sources should be reviewed some how before being imported such that anything currently in place remains as the authoritative instance. I approached the Sunshine Coast Council (Qld) some months ago about accessing their data and my request is still under review. Currently they provide mapping data without charge to commercial vendors (eg UBD). Jeff. From: Ross Scanlon To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, 15 June, 2009 2:37:15 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP And the problem with importing things like roads from government databases is that they are the gazetted road position not the actual on ground road position. That's why google maps etc are so often incorrect. Thats why some of the ABS data does not line up with the actual plotted road. Here's an example http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.30721&lon=148.54535&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF The roads are in their current place but when they were gazetted the ABS boundary is there. You can still see where the Bruce Highway used to be if you go to this intersection. Cheers Ross On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:08:33 +1000 b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: > This is not to say that administrative borders aren't useful, but if I was in > a foreign country I'm much more interested in navigation, where to eat, where > the closest toilet is etc than what suburb I'm in or exactly where the border > of a national park is. > > So anyway, what I'm trying to get to is a consensus on what would be a more > efficient use of our time: marketing to the masses or petitioning for > government databases. > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
--- On Mon, 15/6/09, Ross Scanlon wrote: > And the problem with importing things > like roads from government databases is that they are the > gazetted road position not the actual on ground road > position. That's why google maps etc are so often > incorrect. I realise the gazetted information will be inaccurate, you only have to glance at my emails on state borders. I also realise that landsat plotting is inaccurate due to both course imagery and incorrect alignment, I've noticed the alignment also changes depending where you have the map positioned before requesting yahoo sat images. What I've known for a long time is how beneficial the tiger data set has been to projects in the US, to accelerate interest if nothing else to fix the mistakes! Even though it's inaccurate it plots something, being picky over data in metro areas is fine because you have so many options to pick from, the same can't be said for all areas of the country. Additionally the Austrian govt has released data, they rationalised this because the data they get back in return would be more accurate, and the net cost of the loss of revenue verses the cost to aquire more accurate data is probably up there as well. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
Additionally to this, it's also why I am loath to change the ABS data where they do not line up on a street. On the example below where is the correct ABS boundary. I would expect it to be as plotted by the mass import of the ABS data not where the roads are at present. Cheers Ross On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:37:15 +1000 Ross Scanlon wrote: > And the problem with importing things like roads from government databases is > that they are the gazetted road position not the actual on ground road > position. That's why google maps etc are so often incorrect. > > Thats why some of the ABS data does not line up with the actual plotted road. > > Here's an example > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.30721&lon=148.54535&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF > > The roads are in their current place but when they were gazetted the ABS > boundary is there. You can still see where the Bruce Highway used to be if > you go to this intersection. > > Cheers > Ross -- Ross Scanlon ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
And the problem with importing things like roads from government databases is that they are the gazetted road position not the actual on ground road position. That's why google maps etc are so often incorrect. Thats why some of the ABS data does not line up with the actual plotted road. Here's an example http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.30721&lon=148.54535&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF The roads are in their current place but when they were gazetted the ABS boundary is there. You can still see where the Bruce Highway used to be if you go to this intersection. Cheers Ross On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:08:33 +1000 b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: > This is not to say that administrative borders aren't useful, but if I was in > a foreign country I'm much more interested in navigation, where to eat, where > the closest toilet is etc than what suburb I'm in or exactly where the border > of a national park is. > > So anyway, what I'm trying to get to is a consensus on what would be a more > efficient use of our time: marketing to the masses or petitioning for > government databases. > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
Lets just think about the end goals of getting MPs involved: adding more data to the map. Now basically there seems to be 2 threads of argument about how best to do this: 1) Through mass import of external datasets and 2) through contributions by users. Method 1) is often required for things that can't be easily surveyed, such as administrative borders whereas method 2) tends to yield better results for things open to "rapid" (ie, static for <1-2 years) changes such as POIs and new housing developments. >From that basis one would then ask what is a higher priority for our part of >the world. In my opinion completion of street name surveys is probably the >highest priority, as once that's done OSM begins to look like a useful tool >for people who aren't interested in contributing, eg tourists, small >businesses etc. This is not to say that administrative borders aren't useful, but if I was in a foreign country I'm much more interested in navigation, where to eat, where the closest toilet is etc than what suburb I'm in or exactly where the border of a national park is. So anyway, what I'm trying to get to is a consensus on what would be a more efficient use of our time: marketing to the masses or petitioning for government databases. Personally I think that marketing to the masses would yield better results. Ie: organise more mapping parties where newbies are encouraged to attend and are introduced to a friendly, supportive atmosphere. Or get a few small regions "finished" and get some printed maps into tourist information centers and youth hostels. I dare say that small regions such as the Sydney CBD and Canberra would be excellent pilot projects which could be started right away. By getting lots of free maps out to the people it broadens our readership. Eventually I think it would be really awesome to get an OSM street directory onto bookshop shelves, starting with capital cities (or regional centers, as they're smaller goals) and eventually (in 5-10 years) publishing an "OSM touring guide", complete with a Wikipedia-like database of town descriptions, free camping sites etc, kind of like a compeditor to Explore Australia. Anyway, I've seriously rambled on here. I think that both general populace marketing and MP petitioning are needed, but if somebody has some spare time and a choice, what does Talk-Au think they should concentrate on? Brent - Original Message ----- From: Delta Foxtrot Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:29 pm Subject: [talk-au] Petition to MP To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org > > I'm just wondering, nothing came up on google when searching, if > there is any example letters floating about petitioning MPs for > access to federal data and making it public domain. > > The reason I ask is the electorate, both state and federal, I'm > in is currently held by independents and they might be > sympathetic to the cause, or at least give lip service about it :) > > Just a thought, but previous letters that usually address non- > local specific issues tended to get forwarded to the relevant > ministers and form letters were replied. > > I believe the state member was formally the mayor of Armidale > council so he may have access to other resources, for that area > at least. > > Has anyone gone down this path before, if so what was the outcome? > > > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: > I'm just wondering, nothing came up on google when searching, if there is > any example letters floating about petitioning MPs for access to federal > data and making it public domain. > > The reason I ask is the electorate, both state and federal, I'm in is > currently held by independents and they might be sympathetic to the cause, > or at least give lip service about it :) I am involved in political lobbying at times. Lots of issues pass these men and women, and one thing mentioned is easily lost. But things which are happening in common across many electorates will get talked about in the lunch rooms and party rooms, and this gives an impression of a groundswell of public opinion. So we would all need to be doing this at about the same time - writing individual letters or emails - if we want to have an effect. I've been cautious lately in asking for information, waiting for the licence debate to be settled. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
--- On Sun, 14/6/09, Paul Zagoridis wrote: > Pick up the phone and talk to your > local member AND the electoral staff. I know from previous correspondence on issues they always tell me to put it in a letter and send it to the member, luckily they also accept emails these days. > Educate them on the issue either face to face or later by > phone appointment. face to face would require a 3hr trip to Tamworth, or a 2 hr trip to Armidale, probably both if you want/need to see both. > THEN follow up with a letter that they expect. > > Don't bother with email as it is hard to track. > > Lastly a petition should only be started if you are willing > to drive it. > Better to lobby with your vested interest. By petition, I'm pretty sure I meant to petition the member informally, rather than some formal campaign, although we pay, indirectly, for the mapping information to be produced, so in turn they can turn round and charge/license the data out. Is it just me sick of being doubled, trippled or quadrupled taxed to death? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Petition to MP
I'm just wondering, nothing came up on google when searching, if there is any example letters floating about petitioning MPs for access to federal data and making it public domain. The reason I ask is the electorate, both state and federal, I'm in is currently held by independents and they might be sympathetic to the cause, or at least give lip service about it :) Just a thought, but previous letters that usually address non-local specific issues tended to get forwarded to the relevant ministers and form letters were replied. I believe the state member was formally the mayor of Armidale council so he may have access to other resources, for that area at least. Has anyone gone down this path before, if so what was the outcome? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
