Re: [talk-au] Residential/commercial property boundaries

[Ross]

I don't believe that the address should be on either the property or the 
building.


Specific example are where you have a 1 million acre property and if you 
map it out and put the address on the boundary way it will show up 
outside the property because of the shape of the property.  If you put 
it on the building it shows up but gives no indication of where the 
property access is and if you attempted to get there you'd just get lost.


I always put address on node preferably where the access to the property is.

examples of these properties are here:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/-16.1609/135.6528

Bauhinia Downs is one and the other is Lorella Springs on the other side 
of the north south road here.


As far as landuse=residential goes I have mapped from different sources 
but rather then mapping individual properties map the whole area of 
residential/retail/industrial etc.


An example here:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/-21.0723/149.2217

Cheers
Ross


On 04/01/16 01:42, Michael Gratton wrote:


So basically there's no consensus about whether property boundaries 
should be included or not, but regardless they  won't get rendered 
anyway.


I experimented by adding some properties and their addresses for a 
couple of streets in around Enmore, and Nominatum was able to find the 
addresses as you'd expect, e.g. searching for "22 charles st, enmore" 
returns . However also as 
expected no boundary or even house number was rendered.


What a shame. It seems that in lieu of having any buildings marked 
out, using property borders would have been a useful way to indicate 
addresses - also seems more correct than using buildings, to my mind 
anyway.


//Mike




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Re: [talk-au] Residential/commercial property boundaries

[Simon Poole]

The Karlsruher Schema is intended for postal addresses, typically the
tags are used on building outlines or on nodes. I wouldn't use them on
landuse boundaries. Nor would I import fine grained land ownership in
the first place (you should be able to find discussion of the pros and
cons on the talk or talk-us mailings lists some time back.

Simon

Am 03.01.2016 um 07:29 schrieb Michael Gratton:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Now that the NSW LPI goldmine is available, I'd like to be able to tag
> individual residential and commercial property boundaries. Looking at
> the wiki, it seems like boundary=administrative isn't applicable and
> landuse=... is for larger areas, so is the only useful tagging scheme
> something like:
>
>> area=yes
>> addr:housenumber=...
>> addr:street=...
>
> But then Karlsruhe says that buildings should be tagged with the
> addr:* tags instead?
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> //Mike
>




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Re: [talk-au] Residential/commercial property boundaries

[Michael Gratton]

Yes, as I said landuse doesn't seem to be what I'm after here.

What was the objection to fine grained land ownership in OSM? Seems 
like a particularly useful thing to have in. Is it just "imports suck"?


//Mike

--
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⚙ 


On Sun, 3 Jan, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:


The Karlsruher Schema is intended for postal addresses, typically the
tags are used on building outlines or on nodes. I wouldn't use them on
landuse boundaries. Nor would I import fine grained land ownership in
the first place (you should be able to find discussion of the pros and
cons on the talk or talk-us mailings lists some time back.

Simon

Am 03.01.2016 um 07:29 schrieb Michael Gratton:


 Hey all,

 Now that the NSW LPI goldmine is available, I'd like to be able to 
tag
 individual residential and commercial property boundaries. Looking 
at

 the wiki, it seems like boundary=administrative isn't applicable and
 landuse=... is for larger areas, so is the only useful tagging 
scheme

 something like:


 area=yes
 addr:housenumber=...
 addr:street=...


 But then Karlsruhe says that buildings should be tagged with the
 addr:* tags instead?

 Any suggestions?

 //Mike




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Re: [talk-au] Residential/commercial property boundaries

[Warin]

On 3/01/2016 9:26 PM, Michael Gratton wrote:


Yes, as I said landuse doesn't seem to be what I'm after here.

What was the objection to fine grained land ownership in OSM? Seems 
like a particularly useful thing to have in. Is it just "imports suck"?


//Mike



A simple google search (OSM property boundary) turns up some results

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:boundary#Property_.28land_parcel.29_boundaries 
.. probably will not render.


https://books.google.com.au/books?id=uHIKBwAAQBAJ=PA258=PA258=OSM+property+boundary=bl=SZ055zv2mM=0hgvEPAA_AHov2iNJMm5qvSmUIQ=en=X=0ahUKEwj-3u6bwY3KAhVkIqYKHWXAD1sQ6AEISzAG#v=onepage=OSM%20property%20boundary=false

http://slashgeo.org/2010/09/17/Parcel-Boundary-Data-More-Just-Pretty-Lines-Map/ 



http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/89236/does-openstreetmap-have-property-boundaries

Then OSM parcel boundary (is this an American term?!)

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2013-February/010398.html

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Parcel -a summary .. possibly biased 
.. at least a country bias?


I think it is a boundary of sorts .. thus the appropriate tag is 
boundary ... possible value? boundary=property?




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Re: [talk-au] Residential/commercial property boundaries

[Michael Gratton]

So basically there's no consensus about whether property boundaries 
should be included or not, but regardless they  won't get rendered 
anyway.


I experimented by adding some properties and their addresses for a 
couple of streets in around Enmore, and Nominatum was able to find the 
addresses as you'd expect, e.g. searching for "22 charles st, enmore" 
returns . However also as 
expected no boundary or even house number was rendered.


What a shame. It seems that in lieu of having any buildings marked out, 
using property borders would have been a useful way to indicate 
addresses - also seems more correct than using buildings, to my mind 
anyway.


//Mike

--
⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
⚙ 


On Sun, 3 Jan, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 3/01/2016 9:26 PM, Michael Gratton wrote:
>
> Yes, as I said landuse doesn't seem to be what I'm after here.
>
> What was the objection to fine grained land ownership in OSM? Seems
> like a particularly useful thing to have in. Is it just "imports 
suck"?

>
> //Mike
>

A simple google search (OSM property boundary) turns up some results

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:boundary#Property_.28land_parcel.29_boundaries
.. probably will not render.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=uHIKBwAAQBAJ=PA258=PA258=OSM+property+boundary=bl=SZ055zv2mM=0hgvEPAA_AHov2iNJMm5qvSmUIQ=en=X=0ahUKEwj-3u6bwY3KAhVkIqYKHWXAD1sQ6AEISzAG#v=onepage=OSM%20property%20boundary=false

http://slashgeo.org/2010/09/17/Parcel-Boundary-Data-More-Just-Pretty-Lines-Map/


http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/89236/does-openstreetmap-have-property-boundaries

Then OSM parcel boundary (is this an American term?!)

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2013-February/010398.html

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Parcel -a summary .. possibly 
biased

.. at least a country bias?

I think it is a boundary of sorts .. thus the appropriate tag is
boundary ... possible value? boundary=property?



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Re: [talk-au] Residential/commercial property boundaries

[Daniel O'Connor]

> What a shame. It seems that in lieu of having any buildings marked out,
using property borders would have been a useful way to indicate addresses

In general its a huge rabbit hole to get stuck down if using cadastre/data
where government works in the torrens title first, addresses second
approach.
There is an idea of a 'real property description' in common use in the
property/finance industry,  based on joining the human readable address to
a collection of lot/plan references owned by a person.
One is a location label system (addresses as labels), one is a legal
concept,  and partly related to the physical representation of it as a
spatial boundary.

What becomes a huge pain is when those three concepts don't all fit
perfectly - a fence built a metre too far 10 years ago resulting in a judge
getting involved throws it all out of whack, or when a property is going to
be subdivided (house knocked down,  proposal made to council but not
final,  even if there is a new fence up), or even worse a multiple parcel
property under the same ownership worth multiple addresses - think larger
farms for example.

80% of the time its fine,  the rest is a mess of edge cases based on a
system designed around paper meeting GIS; and people using aliases,
nicknames,  vanity suburbs and more when labeling where things are.
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[talk-au] Residential/commercial property boundaries

[Michael Gratton]

Hey all,

Now that the NSW LPI goldmine is available, I'd like to be able to tag 
individual residential and commercial property boundaries. Looking at 
the wiki, it seems like boundary=administrative isn't applicable and 
landuse=... is for larger areas, so is the only useful tagging scheme 
something like:



area=yes
addr:housenumber=...
addr:street=...


But then Karlsruhe says that buildings should be tagged with the addr:* 
tags instead?


Any suggestions?

//Mike

--
⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
⚙ 



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