Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Hughes]

Agree, but still would think both are better. Plus, it's difficult to tag
the way(s), as we don't necessarily know where the 7% ends. Whereas the
sign is a single point location and can be easily geographical tagged.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 8:03 pm Warin, <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 8/2/23 16:07, Andrew Hughes wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Thanks for the quick responses!
>
> Andrew Harvey: traffic_sign=AU:R6-22,G9-83 seems better than
> traffic_sign=AU:R6-22;AU:G9-83  but I can see why you say both would be
> valid.
> Q: Let's say there is also another sign "Zombies Ahead" that doesn't have
> a NTC code at the same location. Would that be separated with a semi-colon?
> and tagged as   traffic_sign=AU:R6-22,G9-83;Zombies Ahead
>
> Graeme, ideally the "7km" is recorded in the tagging... mostly because
> some juro's do this so they don't need to place "end of  signage". But
> on that subject
> Q: lots of signage such as G9-82 (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Australia ) also includes the
> % slope. This is perhaps similar to the  "7km" supplementary information on
> the sign and perhaps the same convention could apply to both. For example
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-35.0542594599=138.5349290306=19.9%5B%5D=all=OpenStreetMap=798881551059257=photo=0.49105747415321865=0.5517154385592334=0
>
>
> The '% slope' would be the key 'incline' that can simply be applied to the
> road way.
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Warin]

On 8/2/23 16:07, Andrew Hughes wrote:

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the quick responses!

Andrew Harvey: traffic_sign=AU:R6-22,G9-83 seems better than 
traffic_sign=AU:R6-22;AU:G9-83  but I can see why you say both would 
be valid.
Q: Let's say there is also another sign "Zombies Ahead" that doesn't 
have a NTC code at the same location. Would that be separated with a 
semi-colon? and tagged as  traffic_sign=AU:R6-22,G9-83;Zombies Ahead


Graeme, ideally the "7km" is recorded in the tagging... mostly because 
some juro's do this so they don't need to place "end of  signage". 
But on that subject
Q: lots of signage such as G9-82 (see 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Australia ) also includes 
the % slope. This is perhaps similar to the "7km" supplementary 
information on the sign and perhaps the same convention could apply to 
both. For example 
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-35.0542594599=138.5349290306=19.9%5B%5D=all=OpenStreetMap=798881551059257=photo=0.49105747415321865=0.5517154385592334=0





The '% slope' would be the key 'incline' that can simply be applied to 
the road way.
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Does it need the "7k" in there as well?

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 13:54, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 12:44, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>
>>
>> Looking good. Given...
>>
>> Node:  traffic_sign=AU:R6-22
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3227568911
>>
>> Way:  low_gears:hgv=designated
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/245284221
>>
>> Question:
>>
>> The tagging of the way  does not use the AU:R6-22 (signage) code. Can
>> anyone elaborate on why this is?  They seem like conflicting tagging
>> schemes.
>>
>
> You can if you like
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign#On_a_way_or_area.
>
> One is tagging the exact sign (which is specific to Australia), the other
> is tagging the restriction which the sign creates on the way (which could
> apply globally).
>
> Would someone be able to review this tagging...
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/132233374
>
>
> That looks okay. The wiki does say
>
> In case of multiple signs separated by commas or semicolons, the prefix
> should appear only once at the beginning (except if signs from different
> prefixes are combined).
>
> Which would be traffic_sign=AU:R6-22,G9-83
>
> but how you have it should also be acceptable.
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 12:44, Andrew Hughes  wrote:

>
> Looking good. Given...
>
> Node:  traffic_sign=AU:R6-22
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3227568911
>
> Way:  low_gears:hgv=designated
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/245284221
>
> Question:
>
> The tagging of the way  does not use the AU:R6-22 (signage) code. Can
> anyone elaborate on why this is?  They seem like conflicting tagging
> schemes.
>

You can if you like
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign#On_a_way_or_area.

One is tagging the exact sign (which is specific to Australia), the other
is tagging the restriction which the sign creates on the way (which could
apply globally).

Would someone be able to review this tagging...
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/132233374


That looks okay. The wiki does say

In case of multiple signs separated by commas or semicolons, the prefix
should appear only once at the beginning (except if signs from different
prefixes are combined).

Which would be traffic_sign=AU:R6-22,G9-83

but how you have it should also be acceptable.
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Again,

Would someone be able to review this tagging...
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/132233374

This is really two signs: AU:R6-22 and AU:G9-83 (ref.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Australia )

However, my tagging effort doesn't capture the "NEXT 7km" aspect of
the AU:G9-83
sign.

I've since found the sign in Mapillary here (please credit them
appropriately if you make further edits):
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-34.99479658=138.69892263=17.81534575874091=all=OpenStreetMap=528596771464853=photo=0.37678059918083406=0.529304273642301=1.3885102923238097


Many thanks,
Andrew


On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 11:41, Andrew Hughes  wrote:

>
> Looking good. Given...
>
> Node:  traffic_sign=AU:R6-22
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3227568911
>
> Way:  low_gears:hgv=designated
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/245284221
>
> Question:
>
> The tagging of the way  does not use the AU:R6-22 (signage) code. Can
> anyone elaborate on why this is?  They seem like conflicting tagging
> schemes.
>
>
> Thanks everyone for everything so far.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 at 16:14, Phil Wyatt  wrote:
>
>> I have just done Hobarts ‘Southern Outlet” as an example (and Mapillary
>> available at this location)
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/-42.91186/147.30856
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bob Cameron 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 22 January 2023 4:09 PM
>> *To:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"
>>
>>
>>
>> Some Mapillary "data rich" slow vehicle locations. (ie for
>> checking/testing sign recognition)
>>
>> - Dorrigo mountain - Waterfall Way. (Just west/north of Thora) NSW
>> - Bendemeer to Moonbi - New England Hwy NSW
>> - Black Mountain south - New England Hwy NSW
>>
>> On 22/1/23 15:01, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Would anyone like me to create a mapillary challenge so we can tag a few
>> of these examples?
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks like Mapillary does detect some of this signage, under signs
>> "Trucks rollover" and "Steep descent", a MapRoulette challenge would be a
>> great idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Hughes]

Looking good. Given...

Node:  traffic_sign=AU:R6-22
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3227568911

Way:  low_gears:hgv=designated
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/245284221

Question:

The tagging of the way  does not use the AU:R6-22 (signage) code. Can
anyone elaborate on why this is?  They seem like conflicting tagging
schemes.


Thanks everyone for everything so far.



On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 at 16:14, Phil Wyatt  wrote:

> I have just done Hobarts ‘Southern Outlet” as an example (and Mapillary
> available at this location)
>
>
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/-42.91186/147.30856
>
>
>
> *From:* Bob Cameron 
> *Sent:* Sunday, 22 January 2023 4:09 PM
> *To:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"
>
>
>
> Some Mapillary "data rich" slow vehicle locations. (ie for
> checking/testing sign recognition)
>
> - Dorrigo mountain - Waterfall Way. (Just west/north of Thora) NSW
> - Bendemeer to Moonbi - New England Hwy NSW
> - Black Mountain south - New England Hwy NSW
>
> On 22/1/23 15:01, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
>
>
> Would anyone like me to create a mapillary challenge so we can tag a few
> of these examples?
>
>
>
> Looks like Mapillary does detect some of this signage, under signs "Trucks
> rollover" and "Steep descent", a MapRoulette challenge would be a great
> idea.
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Phil Wyatt]

I have just done Hobarts ‘Southern Outlet” as an example (and Mapillary 
available at this location)

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/-42.91186/147.30856

 

From: Bob Cameron  
Sent: Sunday, 22 January 2023 4:09 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

 

Some Mapillary "data rich" slow vehicle locations. (ie for checking/testing 
sign recognition)

- Dorrigo mountain - Waterfall Way. (Just west/north of Thora) NSW
- Bendemeer to Moonbi - New England Hwy NSW
- Black Mountain south - New England Hwy NSW

On 22/1/23 15:01, Andrew Harvey wrote:

 

Would anyone like me to create a mapillary challenge so we can tag a few of 
these examples?

 

Looks like Mapillary does detect some of this signage, under signs "Trucks 
rollover" and "Steep descent", a MapRoulette challenge would be a great idea. 

 

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Bob Cameron]

Some Mapillary "data rich" slow vehicle locations. (ie for 
checking/testing sign recognition)


- Dorrigo mountain - Waterfall Way. (Just west/north of Thora) NSW
- Bendemeer to Moonbi - New England Hwy NSW
- Black Mountain south - New England Hwy NSW

On 22/1/23 15:01, Andrew Harvey wrote:


Would anyone like me to create a mapillary challenge so we can tag
a few of these examples?


Looks like Mapillary does detect some of this signage, under signs 
"Trucks rollover" and "Steep descent", a MapRoulette challenge would 
be a great idea.
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 18:25, Andrew Hughes  wrote:

> Hi Ben, Andrew, Graeme,
>
> Agree 100%, the hazard is the "steep descent" (or similar), which most
> likely (but not always) coincides with the include/gradient sign such as
> "15%" (and we might see "incline=-15" tag used as well).
>
> possible tags are:
>
> hazard=Descent  <-- because this is applicable to not just trucks!
> hazard=Steep Descent  <-- because this is applicable to not just trucks!
> hazard:hgv=Descent
> hazard:hgv=Steep Descent
> hazard:hgv=Steep Descent;Tilting
>
>
> incline=-15
> incline:forward=-15 < if you want to specify direction or is this
> implicit in just using incline and direction of the way anyway
>
>
>
> The "restriction" (assume that is the common OSM term Andrew?) or signage
> on the road is to use low gears.  Q: Tagged on a node and/or  way?
>

If there is an end sign, then I'd map it along the way as something like
`low_gears:hgv=designated`. Then I'd also map the traffic sign as a node,
either separate or on the way.


>
> What about
>
> traffic_sign:hvg=Use Low Gears
> traffic_sign:hvg=AU:Use Low Gears
> traffic_sign:hvg=Tilting
> traffic_sign:hvg=Use Low Gears;Tilting
>
>
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign says "It is common to
use both human-readable values (like city_limit) as well as national
traffic sign IDs (like DE:310) where they exist."

It would just be traffic_sign=* not traffic_sign:hgv=*.

My preference would be to use the exact sign number, eg.

traffic_sign=AU:R6-22
traffic_sign=AU:R6-23
traffic_sign=AU:W8-201N

traffic_sign=AU:W1-205
traffic_sign=AU:W1-8-2
traffic_sign=AU:W1-8-3
traffic_sign=AU:W1-8-4
traffic_sign=AU:W1-8-5

Would anyone like me to create a mapillary challenge so we can tag a few of
> these examples?
>

Looks like Mapillary does detect some of this signage, under signs "Trucks
rollover" and "Steep descent", a MapRoulette challenge would be a great
idea.
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Graeme,

Thank you. The quiet "area" signage is a basket case for me, the reason
being most signage is " in residential areas" or "in built up
areas" and I have no conceivable way of defining those "areas" in OSM.

Maybe the sign could be tagged on a node, or maybe a node (member) of a
way, but definitely not an area that can't be defined and is not suitable
to the way itself in my mind.

Thoughts are definitely welcome.
--AH


On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 11:30, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>
>> There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose a
>> convention inline with the above that could be extended for such additional
>> signage?
>>
>
> Answering in reverse!
>
> I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so did
> some searching & found:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
> but which has apparently never been used.
>
> Also found https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes
>
> The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone, possibly
> with quiet_zone=hgv?
>
> Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road is
>> signed with "Use Low Gears"?
>>
>
> & maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?
>
> That one could even come in under
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as
> hazard=low_gear_required?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Ben, Andrew, Graeme,

Agree 100%, the hazard is the "steep descent" (or similar), which most
likely (but not always) coincides with the include/gradient sign such as
"15%" (and we might see "incline=-15" tag used as well).

possible tags are:

hazard=Descent  <-- because this is applicable to not just trucks!
hazard=Steep Descent  <-- because this is applicable to not just trucks!
hazard:hgv=Descent
hazard:hgv=Steep Descent
hazard:hgv=Steep Descent;Tilting


incline=-15
incline:forward=-15 < if you want to specify direction or is this
implicit in just using incline and direction of the way anyway



The "restriction" (assume that is the common OSM term Andrew?) or signage
on the road is to use low gears.  Q: Tagged on a node and/or  way?

What about

traffic_sign:hvg=Use Low Gears
traffic_sign:hvg=AU:Use Low Gears
traffic_sign:hvg=Tilting
traffic_sign:hvg=Use Low Gears;Tilting


Feedback is most welcome

Would anyone like me to create a mapillary challenge so we can tag a few of
these examples?

Cheers,
Andrew


On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 10:32, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> Good point. If it's a restriction, it should be more like the maxspeed
> tag, maxspeed:hgv=*
>
> So something like low_gears:hgv=designated rather than using the hazard
> key.
>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 11:25, Ben Kelley  wrote:
>
>> Just one thought on this:
>>
>> The "use low gears" it not itself the hazard. It is the steep hill that
>> is the hazard (where the mitigation strategy for HGVs is to use low gears.
>> Same for rollover/sharp bend.
>>
>>  - Ben
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 10:38, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank You Greame,
>>>
>>> The  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards tag
>>> seems very appropriate but in my mind, needs a :hgv namespace.
>>>
>>> still not sure on the actual values but...tag/values I would appreciate
>>> feedback on:
>>>
>>> hazard:hgv=Use low gears
>>> hazard:hgv=Long Steep Descent
>>> hazard:hgv=Use low gears;Long Steep Descent
>>>
>>>
>>> Another example I would appreciate feedback  are QLD "Tilting Truck
>>> signs": https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/warning
>>>
>>> hazard:hgv=Tilting
>>> hazard:hgv=High Risk Rollover
>>> hazard:hgv= ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 11:30, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>>> wrote:
>>>



 On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes  wrote:

> There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone
> propose a convention inline with the above that could be extended for such
> additional signage?
>

 Answering in reverse!

 I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so
 did some searching & found:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
 but which has apparently never been used.

 Also found
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes

 The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone,
 possibly with quiet_zone=hgv?

 Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road
> is signed with "Use Low Gears"?
>

 & maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?

 That one could even come in under
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as
 hazard=low_gear_required?

 Thanks

 Graeme



>>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Ross Scanlon]

Andrew beat me to it.

There is a speed restriction associated with the "Must use low gear 
signs" under the road rules.


It states:

"you must drive in a gear that is low enough to limit the speed of your 
vehicle without using the foot brake."


Unfortunately it's not a defined limit although in places there may be a 
speed limit sign for trucks and buses as well. eg on the Great Eastern 
Freeway heading towards Perth.


Cheers

Ross



On 18/1/23 11:29, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Good point. If it's a restriction, it should be more like the maxspeed 
tag, maxspeed:hgv=*


So something like low_gears:hgv=designated rather than using the 
hazard key.


On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 11:25, Ben Kelley  wrote:

Just one thought on this:

The "use low gears" it not itself the hazard. It is the steep hill
that is the hazard (where the mitigation strategy for HGVs is to
use low gears. Same for rollover/sharp bend.

 - Ben


On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 10:38, Andrew Hughes 
wrote:

Thank You Greame,

The
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards tag
seems very appropriate but in my mind, needs a :hgv namespace.

still not sure on the actual values but...tag/values I would
appreciate feedback on:

hazard:hgv=Use low gears
hazard:hgv=Long Steep Descent
hazard:hgv=Use low gears;Long Steep Descent


Another example I would appreciate feedback  are QLD "Tilting
Truck signs":
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/warning

hazard:hgv=Tilting
hazard:hgv=High Risk Rollover
hazard:hgv= ?


Kind regards,
Andrew



On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 11:30, Graeme Fitzpatrick
 wrote:




On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes
 wrote:

There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking",
could anyone propose a convention inline with the
above that could be extended for such additional signage?


Answering in reverse!

I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for
traffic, so did some searching & found:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
but which has apparently never been used.

Also found
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes

The same idea could possibly be used as
designation=quiet_zone, possibly with quiet_zone=hgv?

Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take
ways where the road is signed with "Use Low Gears"?


& maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?

That one could even come in under
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards
as hazard=low_gear_required?

Thanks

Graeme


___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Harvey]

Good point. If it's a restriction, it should be more like the maxspeed tag,
maxspeed:hgv=*

So something like low_gears:hgv=designated rather than using the hazard key.

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 11:25, Ben Kelley  wrote:

> Just one thought on this:
>
> The "use low gears" it not itself the hazard. It is the steep hill that is
> the hazard (where the mitigation strategy for HGVs is to use low gears.
> Same for rollover/sharp bend.
>
>  - Ben
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 10:38, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>
>> Thank You Greame,
>>
>> The  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards tag
>> seems very appropriate but in my mind, needs a :hgv namespace.
>>
>> still not sure on the actual values but...tag/values I would appreciate
>> feedback on:
>>
>> hazard:hgv=Use low gears
>> hazard:hgv=Long Steep Descent
>> hazard:hgv=Use low gears;Long Steep Descent
>>
>>
>> Another example I would appreciate feedback  are QLD "Tilting Truck
>> signs": https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/warning
>>
>> hazard:hgv=Tilting
>> hazard:hgv=High Risk Rollover
>> hazard:hgv= ?
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 11:30, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>>>
 There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose
 a convention inline with the above that could be extended for such
 additional signage?

>>>
>>> Answering in reverse!
>>>
>>> I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so did
>>> some searching & found:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
>>> but which has apparently never been used.
>>>
>>> Also found
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes
>>>
>>> The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone, possibly
>>> with quiet_zone=hgv?
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road
 is signed with "Use Low Gears"?

>>>
>>> & maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?
>>>
>>> That one could even come in under
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as
>>> hazard=low_gear_required?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Harvey]

Extending on what Phil said see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign. While I still think
we should have a separate hgv low gear tag, tagging the traffic sign would
be okay.

traffic_sign=AU:R6-22
traffic_sign=AU:R6-23

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 20:10, Phil Wyatt  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
>
>
> I think I have seen something whereby you can use the designations on this
> page (ie R6-22) for the actual signs but I could be completely wrong! May
> have been used in ref tagging?? I think it was in NSW somewhere.
>
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Australia
>
>
>
> Cheers - Phil
>
>
>
> *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 January 2023 12:30 PM
> *To:* Andrew Hughes 
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>
> There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose a
> convention inline with the above that could be extended for such additional
> signage?
>
>
>
> Answering in reverse!
>
>
>
> I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so did
> some searching & found:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
> but which has apparently never been used.
>
>
>
> Also found https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes
>
>
>
> The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone, possibly
> with quiet_zone=hgv?
>
>
>
> Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road is
> signed with "Use Low Gears"?
>
>
>
> & maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?
>
>
>
> That one could even come in under
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as
> hazard=low_gear_required?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Ben Kelley]

Just one thought on this:

The "use low gears" it not itself the hazard. It is the steep hill that is
the hazard (where the mitigation strategy for HGVs is to use low gears.
Same for rollover/sharp bend.

 - Ben


On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 10:38, Andrew Hughes  wrote:

> Thank You Greame,
>
> The  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards tag
> seems very appropriate but in my mind, needs a :hgv namespace.
>
> still not sure on the actual values but...tag/values I would appreciate
> feedback on:
>
> hazard:hgv=Use low gears
> hazard:hgv=Long Steep Descent
> hazard:hgv=Use low gears;Long Steep Descent
>
>
> Another example I would appreciate feedback  are QLD "Tilting Truck
> signs": https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/warning
>
> hazard:hgv=Tilting
> hazard:hgv=High Risk Rollover
> hazard:hgv= ?
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 11:30, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>>
>>> There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose
>>> a convention inline with the above that could be extended for such
>>> additional signage?
>>>
>>
>> Answering in reverse!
>>
>> I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so did
>> some searching & found:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
>> but which has apparently never been used.
>>
>> Also found
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes
>>
>> The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone, possibly
>> with quiet_zone=hgv?
>>
>> Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road
>>> is signed with "Use Low Gears"?
>>>
>>
>> & maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?
>>
>> That one could even come in under
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as
>> hazard=low_gear_required?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>>
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 09:38, Andrew Hughes  wrote:

>
> The  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards tag
> seems very appropriate but in my mind, needs a :hgv namespace.
>

I wondered about putting exactly that but then thought that the sign
usually / often mentions buses as well?


> still not sure on the actual values but...tag/values I would appreciate
> feedback on:
>
> hazard:hgv=Use low gears
> hazard:hgv=Long Steep Descent
> hazard:hgv=Use low gears;Long Steep Descent
>
>
Would you need both of them? Are there any cases when you'd need to use low
gears that aren't a steep descent?


> Another example I would appreciate feedback  are QLD "Tilting Truck
> signs": https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/warning
>
> hazard:hgv=Tilting
> hazard:hgv=High Risk Rollover
> hazard:hgv= ?
>
>
Another good one!

Rollover Danger, maybe?

Surprising that there isn't a Low Gear sign on that page?

Thanks

Graeme
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Hughes]

Thank You Greame,

The  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards tag
seems very appropriate but in my mind, needs a :hgv namespace.

still not sure on the actual values but...tag/values I would appreciate
feedback on:

hazard:hgv=Use low gears
hazard:hgv=Long Steep Descent
hazard:hgv=Use low gears;Long Steep Descent


Another example I would appreciate feedback  are QLD "Tilting Truck signs":
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/warning

hazard:hgv=Tilting
hazard:hgv=High Risk Rollover
hazard:hgv= ?


Kind regards,
Andrew



On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 11:30, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes  wrote:
>
>> There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose a
>> convention inline with the above that could be extended for such additional
>> signage?
>>
>
> Answering in reverse!
>
> I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so did
> some searching & found:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
> but which has apparently never been used.
>
> Also found https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes
>
> The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone, possibly
> with quiet_zone=hgv?
>
> Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road is
>> signed with "Use Low Gears"?
>>
>
> & maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?
>
> That one could even come in under
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as
> hazard=low_gear_required?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

I think I have seen something whereby you can use the designations on this page 
(ie R6-22) for the actual signs but I could be completely wrong! May have been 
used in ref tagging?? I think it was in NSW somewhere.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Australia

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick  
Sent: Tuesday, 17 January 2023 12:30 PM
To: Andrew Hughes 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

 




 

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes mailto:ahhug...@gmail.com> > wrote:

There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose a 
convention inline with the above that could be extended for such additional 
signage?

 

Answering in reverse!

 

I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so did some 
searching & found: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
 but which has apparently never been used.

 

Also found https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes

 

The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone, possibly with 
quiet_zone=hgv?

 

Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road is 
signed with "Use Low Gears"?

 

& maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears? 

 

That one could even come in under 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as 
hazard=low_gear_required?

 

Thanks

 

Graeme

 

 

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 10:40, Andrew Hughes  wrote:

> There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose a
> convention inline with the above that could be extended for such additional
> signage?
>

Answering in reverse!

I thought I remembered something about "quiet zones" for traffic, so did
some searching & found:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing#Quiet_zones,
but which has apparently never been used.

Also found https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation#Quiet_lanes

The same idea could possibly be used as designation=quiet_zone, possibly
with quiet_zone=hgv?

Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road is
> signed with "Use Low Gears"?
>

& maybe the same concept as designation=low_gears?

That one could even come in under
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard#Traffic_hazards as
hazard=low_gear_required?

Thanks

Graeme
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

[talk-au] Tagging Trucks (hgv) "Use low gears"

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi All,

Can anyone suggest the most appropriate way to take ways where the road is
signed with "Use Low Gears"?

Bonus questions...

1. In the case of SA, there's online reference material and even an Act to
enforce this legally. How/Should that be tagged ref::: and how so, that
this is the SA ref, and NSW might have another e.t.c...  see
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/driving-and-transport/heavy-vehicles/heavy-vehicles-on-the-south-eastern-freeway
2. There are other signage like "No Engine Breaking", could anyone propose
a convention inline with the above that could be extended for such
additional signage?

Many Thanks!
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au