Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 130, Issue 4

[Andrew Harvey]

Hi Keith,

On 11 April 2018 at 20:53, K C  wrote:

> It seems to me that there are external links to a variety of websites in
> some of the WA OSM data. I draw your attention to the Department of Parks
> and Wildlife. That website too is copyright like every website in AU. I see
> no permissions sought as to whether the DPaW allows a map contributor to
> look at a photo on their website or glean some information as to whether
> there are toilets at a particular spot.
>

Oh external links aren't a problem. That's exactly what
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:website is for, OSM data consumers
can use that to point people to semi-official websites with more
information about objects in OSM.

You're right, the OpenStreetMap community respects the copyright of others
(and we are conservative so we don't try to push the limits of what we
think a court will uphold either) so we can't use copyrighted photos
without the right permissions to glean some information from.

That said it would be great people open up geotagged images to allow the
OSM community to use them as part of their mapping (like via Mapillary or
other platforms). Of course if they are your photos, you're free to use
information from them in OSM.


> Unfortunately I don't think they are going to upload their images to a
> site offshore either. You will find they use images from third parties with
> the appropriate permissions to display on their website. I display data
> from another large organisation that is funded by the WA Government. I
> asked permission to "link" to their particular pages via google maps and
> they replied with some html to insert into the balloon and said that was
> fine. My reason was that their information was very relevant to these
> remote beaches for people to be made aware of the danger at the particular
> beach in question.
>
> There is no breach of copyright if you look at a photo and then make an
> observation about the photo. There may be in other countries but not in AU.
> There is a breach of copyright if some one took that photo as their own and
> uploaded it to a photo sharing site etc. I choose to leave those images on
> my server and not anyone else's. Those "links" to the photo's are there for
> you the end user to see and understand what that 4wd surface actually is.
> Trust me you have people drawing ways in places that the unsuspecting
> commuter could end up in some serious shit.
>

It's pretty well accepted in OpenStreetMap that we take a whiter than white
approach to copyright and database copyright laws, meaning we don't glean
information from copyrighted photos and use that to update OSM, even if it
might be okay in one particular jurisdiction. This is evidenced by the fact
that you can't look at Google Street to gain information about data
uploaded to OSM.


> I will remove the instances of viewpoints/coastal vistas etc and stick to
> actually just detailing the actual track surfaces and other factors
> relating to the actual track.
>

If there are viewpoints there that you've surveyed personally or otherwise
know about from sources which we can use in OSM, please leave them in OSM
and I hope you choose to keep contributing that kind of information, it's
incredibly useful to those using OSM, myself included!
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 130, Issue 4

[K C]

It seems to me that there are external links to a variety of websites in
some of the WA OSM data. I draw your attention to the Department of Parks
and Wildlife. That website too is copyright like every website in AU. I see
no permissions sought as to whether the DPaW allows a map contributor to
look at a photo on their website or glean some information as to whether
there are toilets at a particular spot.

Unfortunately I don't think they are going to upload their images to a site
offshore either. You will find they use images from third parties with the
appropriate permissions to display on their website. I display data from
another large organisation that is funded by the WA Government. I asked
permission to "link" to their particular pages via google maps and they
replied with some html to insert into the balloon and said that was fine.
My reason was that their information was very relevant to these remote
beaches for people to be made aware of the danger at the particular beach
in question.

There is no breach of copyright if you look at a photo and then make an
observation about the photo. There may be in other countries but not in AU.
There is a breach of copyright if some one took that photo as their own and
uploaded it to a photo sharing site etc. I choose to leave those images on
my server and not anyone else's. Those "links" to the photo's are there for
you the end user to see and understand what that 4wd surface actually is.
Trust me you have people drawing ways in places that the unsuspecting
commuter could end up in some serious shit.

Opening the any link in a new tab or window involves using target="blank"
after the url. I am not going to insert that html into the web page or
image link due to the fact of this security issue.
https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/256-targetblank---the-most-underestimated-vulnerability-ever/
This is something that could be done by others. At the moment it is the
safest way to view any external link and the OSM people will probably agree.

I will remove the instances of viewpoints/coastal vistas etc and stick to
actually just detailing the actual track surfaces and other factors
relating to the actual track.


Keith

On 10 April 2018 at 11:16, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> Since you own the copyright in those photos, and unless you've licensed
> them such that information can be derived for use in OSM, then only you can
> use these photos to derive information for OSM.
>
> If you want to contribute these photos for anyone to use to derive
> information for OSM I suggest you upload them to Mapillary as then they'll
> automatically be available for OSM contributors, otherwise you'll need to
> explicitly say you allow this.
>
> The Contributors page is mainly for organisations who are contributing
> geodata for use in OSM where the licensing states we need to provide
> attribution.
>
> On 8 April 2018 at 23:42, K C  wrote:
>
>> I am the author of bushtrax.com and also added a lot of 4wd tracks
>> between 2008 and 2012 so should I add the listing to the contributors
>> index?. Interesting to note that the Holland Track trace came from
>> bushtrax.com as when I over laid my file it was a perfect match.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On 8 April 2018 at 18:50,  wrote:
>>
>>> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
>>> talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>1. tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>>2. tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>>3. Re: tagged links to photos (Andrew Harvey)
>>>4. Re: tagged links to photos (fors...@ozonline.com.au)
>>>5.  tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>>6.  tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>>7. Virtual Mapping Party for Brisbane (Joel H.)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 12:31:29 +1000
>>> From: nwastra 
>>> To: OSM - Talk-au 
>>> Subject: [talk-au] tagged links to photos
>>> Message-ID: 
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>> Are we free to add tag links to images to OSM as in this.
>>> http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=57903447
>>> The https://www.bushtrax.com site is copyrighted so I assume that such
>>> links to the photos need to be either accompanied by permission or
>>> disclaimer or suitable licence or display of the copyright, etc from the
>>> copyright holder.

Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 130, Issue 4

[Andrew Harvey]

Since you own the copyright in those photos, and unless you've licensed
them such that information can be derived for use in OSM, then only you can
use these photos to derive information for OSM.

If you want to contribute these photos for anyone to use to derive
information for OSM I suggest you upload them to Mapillary as then they'll
automatically be available for OSM contributors, otherwise you'll need to
explicitly say you allow this.

The Contributors page is mainly for organisations who are contributing
geodata for use in OSM where the licensing states we need to provide
attribution.

On 8 April 2018 at 23:42, K C  wrote:

> I am the author of bushtrax.com and also added a lot of 4wd tracks
> between 2008 and 2012 so should I add the listing to the contributors
> index?. Interesting to note that the Holland Track trace came from
> bushtrax.com as when I over laid my file it was a perfect match.
>
> Keith
>
> On 8 April 2018 at 18:50,  wrote:
>
>> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
>> talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>2. tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>3. Re: tagged links to photos (Andrew Harvey)
>>4. Re: tagged links to photos (fors...@ozonline.com.au)
>>5.  tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>6.  tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>>7. Virtual Mapping Party for Brisbane (Joel H.)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 12:31:29 +1000
>> From: nwastra 
>> To: OSM - Talk-au 
>> Subject: [talk-au] tagged links to photos
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Are we free to add tag links to images to OSM as in this.
>> http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=57903447
>> The https://www.bushtrax.com site is copyrighted so I assume that such
>> links to the photos need to be either accompanied by permission or
>> disclaimer or suitable licence or display of the copyright, etc from the
>> copyright holder.
>> Does anything need to be documented on this page
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Australia.
>> Or is any url from the web of an image ok to be pasted without any
>> further consideration other than relevance?
>> Nev
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 12:36:23 +1000
>> From: nwastra 
>> To: OSM - Talk-au 
>> Subject: [talk-au] tagged links to photos
>> Message-ID: <60482665-de1e-4b6c-9131-b8afeb78d...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> clarification….as on most of the yellow nodes in the Achavi link…
>>
>> > On 8 Apr 2018, at 12:31 PM, nwastra  wrote:
>> >
>> > Are we free to add tag links to images to OSM as in this.
>> > http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=57903447
>> > The https://www.bushtrax.com site is copyrighted so I assume that such
>> links to the photos need to be either accompanied by permission or
>> disclaimer or suitable licence or display of the copyright, etc from the
>> copyright holder.
>> > Does anything need to be documented on this page
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Australia.
>> > Or is any url from the web of an image ok to be pasted without any
>> further consideration other than relevance?
>> > Nev
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 12:59:01 +1000
>> From: Andrew Harvey 
>> To: nwastra 
>> Cc: OSM - Talk-au 
>> Subject: Re: [talk-au] tagged links to photos
>> Message-ID:
>> > ail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> For example https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5536892235
>>
>> The wiki summarises the image key pretty well
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:image
>>
>> The image may be copyrighted, but a including a link should be fine, just
>> as the website key links to copyrighted websites. We're not using that
>> image to derive any information about the object in OSM.
>>
>> Personally, due to the reasons mentioned on the wiki we should discourage
>> use of the image key, anyone that wants an image of that viewport can
>> query
>> wikimedia, flickr, 

Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 130, Issue 4

[K C]

I am the author of bushtrax.com and also added a lot of 4wd tracks between
2008 and 2012 so should I add the listing to the contributors index?.
Interesting to note that the Holland Track trace came from bushtrax.com as
when I over laid my file it was a perfect match.

Keith

On 8 April 2018 at 18:50,  wrote:

> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>2. tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>3. Re: tagged links to photos (Andrew Harvey)
>4. Re: tagged links to photos (fors...@ozonline.com.au)
>5.  tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>6.  tagged links to photos (nwastra)
>7. Virtual Mapping Party for Brisbane (Joel H.)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 12:31:29 +1000
> From: nwastra 
> To: OSM - Talk-au 
> Subject: [talk-au] tagged links to photos
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Are we free to add tag links to images to OSM as in this.
> http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=57903447
> The https://www.bushtrax.com site is copyrighted so I assume that such
> links to the photos need to be either accompanied by permission or
> disclaimer or suitable licence or display of the copyright, etc from the
> copyright holder.
> Does anything need to be documented on this page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Australia.
> Or is any url from the web of an image ok to be pasted without any further
> consideration other than relevance?
> Nev
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 12:36:23 +1000
> From: nwastra 
> To: OSM - Talk-au 
> Subject: [talk-au] tagged links to photos
> Message-ID: <60482665-de1e-4b6c-9131-b8afeb78d...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> clarification….as on most of the yellow nodes in the Achavi link…
>
> > On 8 Apr 2018, at 12:31 PM, nwastra  wrote:
> >
> > Are we free to add tag links to images to OSM as in this.
> > http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=57903447
> > The https://www.bushtrax.com site is copyrighted so I assume that such
> links to the photos need to be either accompanied by permission or
> disclaimer or suitable licence or display of the copyright, etc from the
> copyright holder.
> > Does anything need to be documented on this page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Australia.
> > Or is any url from the web of an image ok to be pasted without any
> further consideration other than relevance?
> > Nev
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 12:59:01 +1000
> From: Andrew Harvey 
> To: nwastra 
> Cc: OSM - Talk-au 
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] tagged links to photos
> Message-ID:
>  gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> For example https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5536892235
>
> The wiki summarises the image key pretty well
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:image
>
> The image may be copyrighted, but a including a link should be fine, just
> as the website key links to copyrighted websites. We're not using that
> image to derive any information about the object in OSM.
>
> Personally, due to the reasons mentioned on the wiki we should discourage
> use of the image key, anyone that wants an image of that viewport can query
> wikimedia, flickr, Mapillary, etc. for photos within a few meters of the
> location.
>
> On 8 April 2018 at 12:31, nwastra  wrote:
>
> > Are we free to add tag links to images to OSM as in this.
> > http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=57903447
> > The https://www.bushtrax.com site is copyrighted so I assume that such
> > links to the photos need to be either accompanied by permission or
> > disclaimer or suitable licence or display of the copyright, etc from the
> > copyright holder.
> > Does anything need to be documented on this page
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Australia.
> > Or is any url from the web of an image ok to be pasted without any
> further
> > consideration other than relevance?
> > Nev
> >
> >
> >
> >